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Put The Sun Into The Sea's avatar

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punks44
Put The Sun Into The Sea
punks44
Put The Sun Into The Sea
Lol
You realize that there is a reason that the prices are what they are?
Supply/demand?


I actually don't believe in the supply and demand stuff.
People are just greedy , that's all.
Oh wow are you retarded
Supply = Amount of items that are available
Demand = How much the item is wanted


Supply = Made by workers of some factory or some company ( i don't know.) And can probably make millions of it.
Demand = The ruling class holds down the supply or hides it so the demand would be high. Meaning , they can control the prices. That's all.
Workers = Gets low salary (Why?) Because apparently , there are more machines than workers.
Sweetie we don't make the items >.>
Put The Sun Into The Sea
punks44
Put The Sun Into The Sea
punks44
Put The Sun Into The Sea
Lol
You realize that there is a reason that the prices are what they are?
Supply/demand?


I actually don't believe in the supply and demand stuff.
People are just greedy , that's all.
Oh wow are you retarded
Supply = Amount of items that are available
Demand = How much the item is wanted


Supply = Made by workers of some factory or some company ( i don't know.) And can probably make millions of it.
Demand = The ruling class holds down the supply or hides it so the demand would be high. Meaning , they can control the prices. That's all.
Workers = Gets low salary (Why?) Because apparently , there are more machines than workers.
Sweetie we don't make the items >.>


That's why i told to another someone in this thread that the "Supply and demand" is true in the gaian world , especially we all have the equal opportunities to get gold. But on the real world. Nuh-ah!
Put The Sun Into The Sea's avatar

Shirtless Pumpkin

punks44
Put The Sun Into The Sea
punks44
Put The Sun Into The Sea
punks44
Put The Sun Into The Sea
Lol
You realize that there is a reason that the prices are what they are?
Supply/demand?


I actually don't believe in the supply and demand stuff.
People are just greedy , that's all.
Oh wow are you retarded
Supply = Amount of items that are available
Demand = How much the item is wanted


Supply = Made by workers of some factory or some company ( i don't know.) And can probably make millions of it.
Demand = The ruling class holds down the supply or hides it so the demand would be high. Meaning , they can control the prices. That's all.
Workers = Gets low salary (Why?) Because apparently , there are more machines than workers.
Sweetie we don't make the items >.>


That's why i told to another someone in this thread that the "Supply and demand" is true in the gaian world , especially we all have the equal opportunities to get gold. But on the real world. Nuh-ah!

"I actually don't believe in the supply and demand stuff"
Isn't this thread about the gaian world? Or...?
Tama Rama Ding Dong's avatar

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punks44
Why doesn't it work out in practice? The theory seems nice.
This maybe a long post but hopefully I can shed some light in this area.

Communism is great on paper, since it states that everyone is equal in status and has an equal pay. As well, everyone has a home to live in and they'll never go hungry. However the major problems with this are:

1. In order for communism to work, you need everyone to agree on it, as well as a few individuals to disperse the wealth. Already, the system is broken, because those few people are given a LOT of power, and therefore they rise in status...which typically leads to corruption.

2. Say there was no corruption, and these individuals split the wealth equal among themselves and others. The next problem is the incentive/motivation to work. For example, the work of a doctor and factory worker would be viewed the same...in this case, taking care of human life would also equal taking care of a machine.

3. Say everyone is motivated to work, the next issue is that equal dispersion of wealth can lead to maintenance problems. A hospital typically needs more money to keep up with new practices and technological advances in comparison to a factory. But if the same amount of money goes into a hospital as it does a factory, people would not have the means to do their job within modern standards.

There's quite a few problems, but this is just a view of the bigger issues.


punks44
Supply = Made by workers of some factory or some company ( i don't know.) And can probably make millions of it.
Demand = The ruling class holds down the supply or hides it so the demand would be high. Meaning , they can control the prices. That's all.
Workers = Gets low salary (Why?) Because apparently , there are more machines than workers.
Sorry, I really don't like picking at people's post, but there's a bit of misinformation here. emo

Supply is determined by the seller. Although you can make a surplus of items, it depends if the seller releases them to the general public.

Demand is determined by the buyer. This will dictate if an item increases or decreases in price.

Within the supply and demand model: you have a listing price and a current price. Say a seller in the marketplace listed a Coco Kitty for 300k (listing price)...this does not mean the Coco Kitty is worth 300k, in fact it's worth is 0. If a buyer comes in and offers 200k, that is its worth and its current price. And it does not change until the next offer comes along. So, the buyer determines if prices will inflate or deflate.
Himemiya Neko's avatar

Sparkling Senshi

punks44
Supply = Made by workers of some factory or some company ( i don't know.) And can probably make millions of it.
Demand = The ruling class holds down the supply or hides it so the demand would be high. Meaning , they can control the prices. That's all.
Workers = Gets low salary (Why?) Because apparently , there are more machines than workers.



User Image

rofl
We're talking about Gaia here, right?
Do you not know how it works?

Artists make the items.
They are not machines in factory stores, sitting there,
making shoes for you.

The items are made online.
Depending on where they go, there will be a high demand.
CS items have high demand, because eventually they will
be taken from the CS.
However, items in NPC shops stay there forever,
so there is therefore no demand for them,
as there's an infinite amount of supply.

The reason why prices are high on MP are usually for rare items
on RIGS, which is all chance.
So naturally, Rare item + wanted by heaps = High demand,
high prices.

And the MP -IS- ran by people,
hence the prices are high.

It's not greediness, it's the way things work,
and it makes sense.


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Makoto_Gin's avatar

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marshmallowcreampie
It's not greed, it's fairness. If you work hard to get an item, would you sell it for a small amount of gold? And how do you not believe in supply and demand? It's an extremely simple concept. On a side note... This all kind of reminds me of people who complain about MP prices and accuse sellers of being greedy. I mean, isn't that a little hypocritical? The sellers are greedy for selling the item at a high price, but the people complaining are somehow not greedy even though they want the item and demand that prices be dropped?

One of the vending guilds I'm someone was actually talking about a panda item they had stocked up on that they felt inclined to inflate so they could get more gold off of it. So you can't straight off say that it's not greed.
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Makoto_Gin
marshmallowcreampie
It's not greed, it's fairness. If you work hard to get an item, would you sell it for a small amount of gold? And how do you not believe in supply and demand? It's an extremely simple concept. On a side note... This all kind of reminds me of people who complain about MP prices and accuse sellers of being greedy. I mean, isn't that a little hypocritical? The sellers are greedy for selling the item at a high price, but the people complaining are somehow not greedy even though they want the item and demand that prices be dropped?

One of the vending guilds I'm someone was actually talking about a panda item they had stocked up on that they felt inclined to inflate so they could get more gold off of it. So you can't straight off say that it's not greed.


Just because some people are greedy doesn't mean everyone is. There's a difference between greed and fairness. If I have some gold I can sell for $1000, it's only fair that I be allowed to sell it for that much. It wouldn't be fair to expect me to sell it for less than what I could get for it.
Makoto_Gin's avatar

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I think some of you are missing the base point she's getting at, even if it's abit simplified, it's essentially what folks before her have talked about and what would take a miracle for things to go back to---items, particularly rare items, monthly collectibles, and now chance and cash shop items, to be at reasonable prices and yet still be a way for you to work for them without simple easy gain. Back when I joined the site in 2004 the most expensive I saw some rare items and MCs were alittle over 100k if not less, but I wasn't really that much into the site at that point. Since 2006 I have seen static jumps in prices for everything, especially after the marketplace reformat in 2007. The gold pay out changes, and henceforth the various gold sinks we have now have been made to either try to back peddle on that marketplace change and/or try to make things fairer for everyone which has had an whole range of affects in an adverse way. Also when there's an item you want or an item you have you know someone else wants, you're going to do what you can to get it or sell that item, and less not forget the site used to have a really bad botting and hacking issue at various points in the past that has caused some of these item inflation

I have seen people try to curb a lot of that greed, when I was able to and felt inclined to donate/spend cash on the site I would do the same,but there's only so much one person can do or even a handful of people especially if you don't have the millions or billions of gold some of the older (or more obsessive and driven, or however you want to see it) users have. Also for quite a few people gold and items pretty much equate to wealth and status in the real world. The most expensive thing I have is a pair of mini demon wings I got from a friend who quit the site in 2010, but I don't wear them much because of the things I just mentioned but also because I tend to forget I have them, but I still have them because she was a very good friend of mine and they were one of her favorite items. Point being it shouldn't matter, but it does, and there are too many people, just like in the real world, who aren't going to let that notion go because with that much gold they can do whatever and be damned if they actually try to do some good with it or be alittle less greedy even with the other folks out there who do try to do something good with all that wealth.
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marshmallowcreampie
Makoto_Gin
marshmallowcreampie
It's not greed, it's fairness. If you work hard to get an item, would you sell it for a small amount of gold? And how do you not believe in supply and demand? It's an extremely simple concept. On a side note... This all kind of reminds me of people who complain about MP prices and accuse sellers of being greedy. I mean, isn't that a little hypocritical? The sellers are greedy for selling the item at a high price, but the people complaining are somehow not greedy even though they want the item and demand that prices be dropped?

One of the vending guilds I'm someone was actually talking about a panda item they had stocked up on that they felt inclined to inflate so they could get more gold off of it. So you can't straight off say that it's not greed.


Just because some people are greedy doesn't mean everyone is. There's a difference between greed and fairness. If I have some gold I can sell for $1000, it's only fair that I be allowed to sell it for that much. It wouldn't be fair to expect me to sell it for less than what I could get for it.

It makes sense to sell an item at a lower base price that is still going to get you profit without creating artificial inflation. The less copies of something there is out there the more expensive it's going to be depending on what it is, though in some instances you do see nice jump in prices on items on here, on other sites and games, and in real life regardless of how old it is.
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The WaIking Dead
I'm not good at finances or business, so this might not make sense, but here goes: In real life a lot of things are expensive because they're rare resources like diamonds and gold. Even art from a famous dead artist. There's a limited supply because they don't naturally regenerate, thus people are willing to pay a lot of money for these things.

But here, on Gaia, people behind desks determine what is rare, they choose what items people are going to fight over and inflate and lust after. These items are pixels, they can be remade infinitely, so in that regard it seems a little unfair. If they re-release a much sought after item, the price in the MP often goes down, upsetting those who quested but also making those that couldn't afford it before happy to have it cheaper. It just seems so shady to me, having Gaia manipulate the odds of an item like that. Just my opinion.


Eh, but the prospect of potential rarity helps you get profit. People are less inclined to buy items if they KNOW the item will be re-released later, because the item will often get cheaper upon re-release. But also, the people running the site can't always know which items will be the most popular, and that's what REALLY dictates prices. Two items with the same drop rate can be at different price levels in the MP if one is more popular than the other. Two items that cost the same amount in the Cash Shop might be different prices on the MP if one is more popular.

Many items do get re-released, but the people working at Gaia won't just re-release them all willy-nilly. You don't want to re-release an item too soon after the original release because that could discourage people from buying cash items in the future.

punks44


Supply = Made by workers of some factory or some company ( i don't know.) And can probably make millions of it.
Demand = The ruling class holds down the supply or hides it so the demand would be high. Meaning , they can control the prices. That's all.
Workers = Gets low salary (Why?) Because apparently , there are more machines than workers.


Uh... The Gaia gold market is a bit different from real life markets. On Gaia, everyone starts off on equal ground. There is no "ruling class" or "working class". There's no power system, so even an "upper class" user with hundreds of millions of gold can't keep other users down. Items are made by artists, and since the items are virtual, they can be replicated without needing more workers. The Gaia market does have similarities to real life economies but it's not entirely identical.
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Makoto_Gin

It makes sense to sell an item at a lower base price that is still going to get you profit without creating artificial inflation. The less copies of something there is out there the more expensive it's going to be depending on what it is, though in some instances you do see nice jump in prices on items on here, on other sites and games, and in real life regardless of how old it is.


Prices will only go as high as buyers will let them. I've seen plenty of people buy up MP item supplies in an attempt to jack up the price, but I find that rarely works out. Once other people who own the item see the sudden jump in price, they go "I gotta get in on that!" and start listing theirs, each one at a price lower than that of the previous one. Pretty soon the price drops back to what it originally was.
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Makoto_Gin

It makes sense to sell an item at a lower base price that is still going to get you profit without creating artificial inflation. The less copies of something there is out there the more expensive it's going to be depending on what it is, though in some instances you do see nice jump in prices on items on here, on other sites and games, and in real life regardless of how old it is.


Prices will only go as high as buyers will let them. I've seen plenty of people buy up MP item supplies in an attempt to jack up the price, but I find that rarely works out. Once other people who own the item see the sudden jump in price, they go "I gotta get in on that!" and start listing theirs, each one at a price lower than that of the previous one. Pretty soon the price drops back to what it originally was.

I have too, in some cases that don't always work out or it takes awhile for to go back down.I've this with a few items that shouldn't ever have gone over in 1mil in the first place and the only reason it happened is what you pretty much said.
marshmallowcreampie's avatar

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Makoto_Gin
I think some of you are missing the base point she's getting at, even if it's abit simplified, it's essentially what folks before her have talked about and what would take a miracle for things to go back to---items, particularly rare items, monthly collectibles, and now chance and cash shop items, to be at reasonable prices and yet still be a way for you to work for them without simple easy gain. Back when I joined the site in 2004 the most expensive I saw some rare items and MCs were alittle over 100k if not less, but I wasn't really that much into the site at that point. Since 2006 I have seen static jumps in prices for everything, especially after the marketplace reformat in 2007. The gold pay out changes, and henceforth the various gold sinks we have now have been made to either try to back peddle on that marketplace change and/or try to make things fairer for everyone which has had an whole range of affects in an adverse way. Also when there's an item you want or an item you have you know someone else wants, you're going to do what you can to get it or sell that item, and less not forget the site used to have a really bad botting and hacking issue at various points in the past that has caused some of these item inflation

I have seen people try to curb a lot of that greed, when I was able to and felt inclined to donate/spend cash on the site I would do the same,but there's only so much one person can do or even a handful of people especially if you don't have the millions or billions of gold some of the older (or more obsessive and driven, or however you want to see it) users have. Also for quite a few people gold and items pretty much equate to wealth and status in the real world. The most expensive thing I have is a pair of mini demon wings I got from a friend who quit the site in 2010, but I don't wear them much because of the things I just mentioned but also because I tend to forget I have them, but I still have them because she was a very good friend of mine and they were one of her favorite items. Point being it shouldn't matter, but it does, and there are too many people, just like in the real world, who aren't going to let that notion go because with that much gold they can do whatever and be damned if they actually try to do some good with it or be alittle less greedy even with the other folks out there who do try to do something good with all that wealth.


Jumps in item prices the past few years have been the result of real inflation, not artificial inflation or people being greedy. Booty Grab was a particularly bad offender. The game gave out so much gold for so little work that the gold became worth less than it was before, and prices skyrocketed. Think of it like this: say Gaia decided that, tomorrow, they would give every user ten million gold. Suddenly everyone can afford more items and they all get bought up. To return the market to a balance, prices of the items will go up.

And a lot of people can tell you, a lot of prices have been evening out or going down lately. There's a GCD thread called "I can't believe that item is that inexpensive!", where users post links to items that have either drastically dropped in price, or are a great deal for what they are. (like a low cost on an item with nice hair, or a ton of poses) I attribute much of the deflation to the increase in cash items. I remember when I first joined, MCs were a much bigger deal. Took me several days, maybe a few weeks, I can't remember, to quest for Gwee the Dragon, my first MC. A new user now could easily raise the 30k I paid for the item and buy something else, maybe something even higher quality.

There are certain kinds of items that you can mostly only get with cash items. Pets, weapons, backgrounds, and others. Back when I was new, MCs were in much higher demand. It seemed like every other person was questing for the Ancient Katana. But now, that's not the case. Reason being, there are so many more weapons available that are just as good. The Ancient Katana has more competition. When the Ancient Katana is one of the only weapon items available, more people will want it because they don't have other options. But when you put out a few hundred other weapons, in more variety, many people will stop eyeing that katana and go after one of the new ones. When I was new, there were a few pricey MCs I wanted even though I had no chance of getting them at the time. Kiki and Coco, and the Katana. But now, I don't care much about any of those items. There are more and cheaper weapon options, and the same goes for cats, well, animal companion items in general.

But, really... Why is it such a big deal to you? "Do some good" with virtual gold? Yes, it's nice when people give gold and items to each other, I try to do it once in a while if I see someone questing for something and they aren't too far off, or I can easily afford the item, and I definitely enjoy getting gifts myself. But in the end, they're just pixels we use to make our virtual dolls look nice. Even if a user decides to hoard all of his gold and constantly plays the MP to get even more, he's not doing any harm. It sucks and it's not fair when people hoard items to artificially jack up the price, but people can still buy other items.
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Makoto_Gin

I have too, in some cases that don't always work out or it takes awhile for to go back down.I've this with a few items that shouldn't ever have gone over in 1mil in the first place and the only reason it happened is what you pretty much said.


That seems to be pretty rare. But just as well, blame also falls on the buyers. Artificial inflation will only jack up a price as high as people are willing to pay for it. A while back I got a rare item from an RIG. I wanted to sell it fast and I was hoping to get MP price, but I couldn't find anyone willing to pay that much. I still managed to get a lot and I'm very happy, though it wasn't as much as the original price. The item in question was one of those rare RIG pets, which a lot of people feel are priced unfairly. But I got a TON of PMs from people wanting the item and willing to pay the high price. It's not my fault other people want to pay that much. (I certainly never would, ha ha) If I was unable to get the price I put it in the MP for and didn't get any offers for anything close, I would've lowered the price. If the item still didn't sell, I'd put it lower. And lower, and lower, until it finally sold.

Speak with your wallet. Well, your virtual one. If you don't think a price is fair, don't buy the item. If you buy the item even if you think the price is unfair, the seller won't learn anything. You tell him the prices are unfair but he's still gaining from those prices, there's no reason to expect him to stop selling the items that high. There's nothing inherently wrong with wanting money. If you were selling a watch at a garage sale and one person offered you five dollars and another offered you a million dollars, who would you sell the watch to?
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punks44
-Priceless Junk-
punks44
-Priceless Junk-
punks44
Put The Sun Into The Sea
Lol
You realize that there is a reason that the prices are what they are?
Supply/demand?


I actually don't believe in the supply and demand stuff.
People are just greedy , that's all.

Well supply and demand is a real thing as taught in economics class. Economics is a lot about human greed which in this society isn't really considered super bad unless it gets out of hand.
So like communism gaia? biggrin
I'm not sure I like that... but I like the idea of a Gaia-revolution among the poor little free gaians rising up and creating a new Gaian society that is communist. Then the revolutionarys start to get all mean and twitchy like most internet things like this usually do and go mad with ego and treachery and the society collapses and stuff. OR maybe a guild that estabishes a group of communist Gaians together share items and gold that gains popularity and then start to get all mean and twitchy like most internet things like this usually do and go mad with ego and treachery and the society collapses and stuff.
OR BOTH that would be EPIC!

I mean if you think about it we can do something like that. It's a user run economy in some places.


Haha! I like this idea. LOL! But what's a communist?

Remember Communist Russia in history class, the Soviet Union?
It's like that. I was referring to that. Or maybe communist China.
But it's mostly the theory of Communism which is everything belongs to the people instead of rich people and poor people everyone is equal.
Although it doesn't work out in practice.


Why doesn't it work out in practice? The theory seems nice.

Ah well ask your history teacher. This is a really long interesting topic that I can't explain enough to give it justice. Or there are plenty of easy to read books at library on this topic so maybe ask your librarian for books.

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