The Lesser of Two Evils...I'd Like a Third Option

Hmmm.....

Moral Relativism be Damned! (Give me a Third Option!!)	51.9%	[ 70 ]
But the Don has suffered so much! (Dark Elf)	21.5%	[ 29 ]
Vampires are so HOT (even if they're just room temperature ;))	26.7%	[ 36 ]
Total Votes:			[ 135 ]

[Kari Twilight Mist]

Ellie the Magnificent

Oh no, I completely agree. I have seen people who want to change sides just because Luca caught something that made his skin gray
and his stature small and his mommy fell in love a vampire and they all had to live underground. It doesn't matter he became a Don.
Made tons of money. Rules all of the underworld. Went completely nuts. Tried to kill beloved NPC's (Gino, Ian and Louie)
and was responsible for two loved NPC deaths (Gambino and Meili). Not to mention his crazy genocide plan.
Also, we don't know what big, bad, black magic, BS he got himself involved with here, because he obviously isn't working alone.

You've just made me feel far less guilty to have sided with the vampires. Thank you.

[WideEyed]

Sachie Whitby

Vampires are no soulless monsters. You're just lower on the food chain and not happy about it. Drinking your blood is purely survival and isn't any more personal than you going to McDonald's to order up a hamburger. It's somewhat ludicrous to say that they're the lesser evil based entirely on dietary habits when in fact they're technically neutral as anything else that eats.

Valid point.
My statements concerning vampires are most definitely framed within the context of me being a staple in their diet, and I agree that from the most basic perspective of survival, there is nothing "evil" about what they do.
Still, in keeping with traditional lore regarding their species, I'm pretty sure the "soulless" appellation is accurate.

Sachie Whitby

Nobody forced Kuro's mom to fall in love with a vampire, have an affair then save his life when the other elves were to going to put him to death. You noticed that the Kuros as a whole only got punished when she killed the executioner? This punishment came at the hands of other elves, not the vampires. She could have let that vampire die and nothing else would have come of it. So what does Kuro do now? Rather than go get his revenge on the elves that made life difficult for him and his family in the first place, he behalves like an elf and tries to take it out on vampires.

Well, as ignoble a sentiment as it may be, the heart wants what the heart wants.
While I would never support marital betrayal, I have to support Kuro's mother's unflinching devotion to her paramour, even if I don't agree with her methods.
To simply abandon her lover to be executed would be, IMO, a greater sin than the original infidelity that brought it about.

[Azavezel]

WideEyed

Azavezel

Sweatpants Princess

Azavezel

It's laziness to call for a third "good" option. Utter, supreme laziness. That is demanding a position that only an idiot wouldn't choose, has a clear moral standing, and would definitely "win the war and make things right".

Are you sure that OP just doesn't want to be complicit in horrible things that others are doing?
Not wanting to be associated with those who cause harm and destruction doesn't seem lazy to me. Especially compared to all of the users who want more red/black/ebil items who just want chaos and flame on everything, trying to be noble and take the high road is perfectly fine.

To want a clearly good option more or less is a sign of moral stagnation. It's saying "I don't want to be apart of this and just want to roll with the winners". Obviously, since Louie and the others are siding with the vampires, to anyone familiar with the Gaian storyline the vampires are the "clear good guys" despite the danger involved going with them and if they win.

The option is there, but it's complicated. If a third side appeared and was both good and had something clearly wrong with them, then sure, possibly. But a complete "We're totally the good guys and we're putting a stop to this" in all confirmation and nothing underhanded or wrong about it? That's what we call a major cop out.

If I understand your comment regarding "moral stagnation" properly, then I couldn't disagree more.
Call me simplistic, but I don't see genuine Good and Evil as being things which evolve.
True, conventional morality most definitely evolves to reflect the current culture, but I think that core Good and Evil are constants.
And while I always like to win (who doesn't ?), I pretty much always choose my Teams based on the Team itself, as opposed to what I think it's chances of winning are.
That's what Mules are for. wink
I think there could have been a third, "virtuous" side and that side could still end up losing, or at least be unable to stop one of the "Evil" sides from prevailing.
When you get right down to it, how more "real" could you get than having the Good Guys do their utmost to "do the right thing", yet still come up short in the end?

That already happened. The result was not favorable for anyone.

What I mean by "moral stagnation" is on the subject of those who just would rather stick to the black and white, simplistic philosophy rather than worry about the details and grit of the situation at hand.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

The vampires are the good guys this time, they're aligned with Louise the pansy and he's on Edmund/Gino's side. I used to love the Von Helson family before they offed Vlad.

EDIT: Don't take offense to that, this is a team event after all.

[sweetari]

I thought the point was to not have a clear good side so that not everyone went to one side?

[Sachie Whitby]

WideEyed

Sachie Whitby

Vampires are no soulless monsters. You're just lower on the food chain and not happy about it. Drinking your blood is purely survival and isn't any more personal than you going to McDonald's to order up a hamburger. It's somewhat ludicrous to say that they're the lesser evil based entirely on dietary habits when in fact they're technically neutral as anything else that eats.

Valid point.
My statements concerning vampires are most definitely framed within the context of me being a staple in their diet, and I agree that from the most basic perspective of survival, there is nothing "evil" about what they do.
Still, in keeping with traditional lore regarding their species, I'm pretty sure the "soulless" appellation is accurate.

Does Ian seem soulless to you? What about Louie? The twins might seem a bit closer to that soulless category, but they seem more like Liam-crazed party girls with fangs than monsters that exist for no reason but to kill. How about the unknown number of us users who have chosen to go undead and stay that way. I doubt you'd have many rational discussions with the soulless.

Sachie Whitby

Nobody forced Kuro's mom to fall in love with a vampire, have an affair then save his life when the other elves were to going to put him to death. You noticed that the Kuros as a whole only got punished when she killed the executioner? This punishment came at the hands of other elves, not the vampires. She could have let that vampire die and nothing else would have come of it. So what does Kuro do now? Rather than go get his revenge on the elves that made life difficult for him and his family in the first place, he behalves like an elf and tries to take it out on vampires.

Well, as ignoble a sentiment as it may be, the heart wants what the heart wants.
While I would never support marital betrayal, I have to support Kuro's mother's unflinching devotion to her paramour, even if I don't agree with her methods.
To simply abandon her lover to be executed would be, IMO, a greater sin than the original infidelity that brought it about.

My point remains that it still doesn't automatically classify vampires as an evil species by any amount nor does it excuse Kuro's current behaviour either. Vampires are as neutral as the trees lining the streets of Barton or any other city and are only getting involved out of species solidarity.

[WideEyed]

Azavezel

That already happened. The result was not favorable for anyone.

Not sure I know what you mean by this...

Azavezel

What I mean by "moral stagnation" is on the subject of those who just would rather stick to the black and white, simplistic philosophy rather than worry about the details and grit of the situation at hand.

I agree that life is seldom Black and White, and I'd take it even farther and suggest that it's people's insistence on it being such, that causes an awful lot of the problems we see in the world these days.
Even some things that might seem initially to be "moral absolutes", can often be more subtle and complicated when a person delves more deeply into them, and I agree that insisting everything be either 1 or 0 is rather simplistic.
I just don't see where a third option would invalidate the Event.

[Azavezel]

WideEyed

Azavezel

That already happened. The result was not favorable for anyone.

Not sure I know what you mean by this...

Azavezel

What I mean by "moral stagnation" is on the subject of those who just would rather stick to the black and white, simplistic philosophy rather than worry about the details and grit of the situation at hand.

I agree that life is seldom Black and White, and I'd take it even farther and suggest that it's people's insistence on it being such, that causes an awful lot of the problems we see in the world these days.
Even some things that might seem initially to be "moral absolutes", can often be more subtle and complicated when a person delves more deeply into them, and I agree that insisting everything be either 1 or 0 is rather simplistic.
I just don't see where a third option would invalidate the Event.

It would invalidate the point of it, unless they made the third option equally as skewed as the others. As for it already happening, that was BOO vs SIN. Clearly good versus CLEARLY evil.

[Krissim Klaw]

There is a third option, don't join a side and bloody your pretty little hands. Even if there was a third option their moral high-ground would be lost the second they spilled blood. The only way to stay on the path of the righteous is to not join the fight at all.

[WideEyed]

Azavezel

WideEyed

Azavezel

That already happened. The result was not favorable for anyone.

Not sure I know what you mean by this...

Azavezel

What I mean by "moral stagnation" is on the subject of those who just would rather stick to the black and white, simplistic philosophy rather than worry about the details and grit of the situation at hand.

I agree that life is seldom Black and White, and I'd take it even farther and suggest that it's people's insistence on it being such, that causes an awful lot of the problems we see in the world these days.
Even some things that might seem initially to be "moral absolutes", can often be more subtle and complicated when a person delves more deeply into them, and I agree that insisting everything be either 1 or 0 is rather simplistic.
I just don't see where a third option would invalidate the Event.

It would invalidate the point of it, unless they made the third option equally as skewed as the others. As for it already happening, that was BOO vs SIN. Clearly good versus CLEARLY evil.

BOO vs SIN was before my time.
Grave Danger was my first Halloween on Gaia, and I thought that one was a blast! blaugh
How was the outcome of BOO vs SIN problematic?

As for there being a larger "point" to the Event....I don't honestly know that there was/is some larger point being made by having us choose between to "Evil" sides. Only the Event Designers could really say for sure if they were engaging in something larger than a simple "Vs" type of Event.

The way I'm interpreting the two sides in this so far is thusly:
Don Kuro, for whatever reasons, is launching some extremely large assault on Gaia, his intent being to set himself up as Gaia's Supreme Being.
Whether he is being manipulated by whatever it is he's been conjuring, or it's because he's just a megalomaniacal sociopath, or if it's just some form of mis-directed attempt at revenge, remains to be seen.
The vampires motives seem simpler, and would appear to be more along the lines of maintaining the status quo.
They view Kuro's plans as being a threat to their current way of life (which is not exactly "righteous" ), if not their very existence, and have decided to make sure his plans fail.

I kind of liken it to a gang war, with two factions of undesirables duking it out on the streets and to hell with who happens to get caught in the middle.

As someone who's more likely to be one of those unfortunates "in the middle", it would be nice if me and mine held a bit of sway in the proceedings rather than having to side with one gang or the other.
Either way, when it's all over, I'm still going to have one street gang roaming my neighbourhood, and without their enemies to distract them, they can turn their full attention on me and mine.

[WideEyed]

xcrimsonlegendx

The vampires are the good guys this time, they're aligned with Louise the pansy and he's on Edmund/Gino's side. I used to love the Von Helson family before they offed Vlad.

EDIT: Don't take offense to that, this is a team event after all.

LOL!
No offence taken! blaugh

[Aura Solar]

Perhaps it would be nice for a third faction, maybe they could have brought back the lycans from the last war, seeing that most of them became loyal to Louie according to the end of the Moonrise manga.

I don't mind siding with the vampires though, yes vampires drink blood but they can find other ways to drink blood other than biting peoples' necks and forcing them into their kin. I also think that Luca is unfit to be a ruler because he is fueled by a vendetta that could spell complete disaster if not stopped.

Just because I'm a dark elf dose not mean the don can make me a puppet to use. I'm a freedom fighter.

[KoTToS]

WideEyed

I'd like a Third Option.

There's a anon faction calling themselves werewolves for peace that are of the same mind. Though i can tell you the wolves aren't much less violent, but it's more about food than any kind of power play...

[WideEyed]

sweetari

I thought the point was to not have a clear good side so that not everyone went to one side?

You may be on to something there, although knowing people as I think I do, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if, even in a simple Good vs Evil scenario, if the Bad Guys were well represented.
As I've said before, people have a fascination with the Bad Boy, and there's nothing like the anonymity of the Internet to reduce people's inhibitions about succumbing to the appeal of the Dark Side. wink

[Stereotypically Unique]

Aura Solar

Perhaps it would be nice for a third faction, maybe they could have brought back the lycans from the last war, seeing that most of them became loyal to Louie according to the end of the Moonrise manga.

This makes the entirety of a third option redundant, since they have already sided with Louie/Vampires.