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Money?

Money! Gimme! *makes grabby hands* 0.33419689119171 33.4% [ 129 ]
Money is evil! *makes warding off evil hand gesture* 0.17616580310881 17.6% [ 68 ]
Monkeys? I like monkeys! Oh wait, you said money... 0.27720207253886 27.7% [ 107 ]
Eh, doesn't affect me, but I love poll gold! 0.21243523316062 21.2% [ 82 ]
Total Votes:[ 386 ]
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The Undead Suitor's avatar

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siskataya
The Undead Suitor
is it weird that you guys have spent more time explaining yourselves than anything else lately


Not really, when one is consistently confronted with wild conspiracy theories, user suggested business ideas that make no sense and get others riled up for no good reason, and some general misunderstandings about how businesses run. Nothing wrong with clarifying if it can help some people! biggrin


Then it took you guys a while

this tune has been playing since 2008, I just figured that if you're ramping up the PR run now of all times (instead of just completely ignoring it like the last 5 years) something drastic must be happening behind the scenes

like those rapid layoffs
Rubeus Emperor's avatar

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The Undead Suitor
CDracula1
The Undead Suitor
is it weird that you guys have spent more time explaining yourselves than anything else lately


Not really.
Since the update of Club Verge there have been too many threads with people going slightly...crazy.
If the staff didn't address this then the userbase would increase in worry and "doom theories".
( You don't want your userbase thinking your in a financial crisis and that the website might shut down any second due to lack of funds - which some people have been thinking along the terminology of "If they're asking for that much they MUST need it desperately!" )


This isn't the first siskataya explanation thread though, its like..the third in the last couple months.

(I don't think Verge has suggested any "financial problems" more than say.....the 3 layoffs in a row or anything)


Yeah the three layoffs could cause concern.
Although it's probably harder to explain them.
The staff being layed off is probably something confidential.
Either that will get in the way or the higher ups will not want to share such information.
At least they're taking steps in calming users down.
siskataya's avatar

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Cdracula2
siskataya


Banning me so quickly?
I was trying to have a civil conversation here.
If you feel like talking to me about this and more please contact me through skype.
I appreciate that in the ToS it states you can ban me for any reason at any time.
But please at least wait until we've finished talking to eachother.
Or until we can talk to eachother out of Gaia.
My skype is

satanichair

Please add me and talk to me on there.
Regarding the bans and regarding suggestions for the website.
Plus I wouldn't mind talking to you on mic instead of text.


I haven't banned you from anything - what are you talking about? eek
Rubeus Emperor's avatar

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siskataya


Please note those e-mails about the bans, please at least check the e-mails of the accounts I traded with before you do a mass ban.

They're accounts I've had for about 4-5 years now and they *are* my accounts. Albeit old, I decided to recover and look through them since I get spammed with Gaia Alerts on them all the time in my email.
Naladi's avatar

Tiny Bookworm

From what I've read, I've seen legitimate points raised on both sides of the fence. That is, when the people on either side of the fence haven't descended into mud-slinging and name-calling, which I've seen an abundance of from both sides. From people who spend money being called stupid cash-cows to people who don't spend money/don't spend as much money being called butthurt freeloaders, it's been everywhere lately.

I can see the desirability for rewarding large cash spenders on Gaia, as a way to encourage people to keep spending money here to keep the site going, and to give other users who don't necessarily spend money on here more of an incentive to do so. I see the benefit and potential of such a program, but I also understand user's frustrations with how the club is currently being carried out.

The abundance of $100+ items in Club Verge combined with the relatively small amount of less expensive items in the shop gives users the impression, whether or not its true, that they aren't being rewarded but are being taken advantage of because they have shown that they can spend $100 or more on the site. Also, I've heard that the increase of price of the animated halo from the $10 that the original one was available for to the $25 that the recolor is selling for, has given them a similar impression.

The increase in prices in Club Verge in order to preserve MP value and keep the supply low has been a large bone of contention that I've seen. Even after getting in the club, some users feel as if they're being alienated because they belong to a middle category of people who spend $100 on Gaia annually but cannot afford to spend enough on Gaia in the span of a single month to be able to afford any of the exclusive items offered in the shop as a reward. It would probably be beneficial to have some items in Club Verge that are available at usual La Victoire prices, so that everyone in the club can have a reasonable expectation of being able to get something out of the club even if their budget is only the $100 a year that allowed them to gain entrance into the club. Coupon and discount programs for Club Verge members is another great idea that I heard that all Club Verge members would be able to take advantage of regardless of their relative budgets.

These are just a few things that I've seen, and my opinion as a non-member of Club Verge looking at the issue. But I did want to say, thank you for making this thread and openly discussing these matters with us, Sisky. I know tempers are running a bit high on both sides at the moment, but I truly believe that the only reason people feel so passionately about the issue is because we all genuinely care about the site.
Rubeus Emperor's avatar

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siskataya
Cdracula2
siskataya


Banning me so quickly?
I was trying to have a civil conversation here.
If you feel like talking to me about this and more please contact me through skype.
I appreciate that in the ToS it states you can ban me for any reason at any time.
But please at least wait until we've finished talking to eachother.
Or until we can talk to eachother out of Gaia.
My skype is

satanichair

Please add me and talk to me on there.
Regarding the bans and regarding suggestions for the website.
Plus I wouldn't mind talking to you on mic instead of text.


I haven't banned you from anything - what are you talking about? eek

If you're going to feign ignorance at least talk to me on Skype about the matter.
Either that or you assigned someone else too.
I don't really want to hijack this thread about my banning however.
I want to keep it on topic as much as you do.
( Counting Dracula & CDracula1 )
---

@Suitor:

The layoffs were surprising to me since I thought HoC would be quite popular.
Apparently not. But I'm sure Gaia is doing fine revenue wise.
Even if they're not - there is no incentive to worry users.
Kitty Gnar-Gnar's avatar

Sage Mage

Thank you for this explanation but I'm sorry to say that none of it made me feel any less guilty, gauche, or depressed about being a member of Club Verge. It just feels... upsetting to me, to be rewarded for something I'm not proud of and that I consider of inherently less value than the amount of time and posts and friends I've made on Gaia.

I wish you'd come out with the social rewards first.
siskataya's avatar

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Kitty Gnar-Gnar
Thank you for this explanation but I'm sorry to say that none of it made me feel any less guilty, gauche, or depressed about being a member of Club Verge. It just feels... upsetting to me, to be rewarded for something I'm not proud of and that I consider of inherently less value than the amount of time and posts and friends I've made on Gaia.

I wish you'd come out with the social rewards first.


I understand, and I am sorry if you are feeling poorly! I am working on a social rewards system though, it's just inherently more difficult to do. But it'll get here as soon as I am able, and it'll be fun! Please know we value all your contributions to Gaia - you often make fantastically spicy posts, and have made us laugh on multiple occasions! We're sure others love your wit and words too biggrin
Lei_Trigar's avatar

Prince Survivor

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siskataya


I have a suggestion; How about you guys release a special Soul-Bound version of all the items at a much lower price? Just hear me out;

Because personally, if they were meant to be for Club Verge members only it would make sense that they should only be used by them. Oh, but people really, really hate soul-bound items because the main reason why people buy from the Cash shop is to make some quick gold and having soul-binding the items would deter people from buying them, which is why I suggest making a Soul-Bound version at much lower price, like instead of $1k for the bundle, maybe have it at $150, I believe those who really want the items and not just to sell them would buy them and use. I know I would.

I just feel $1k for a bundle is really kinda pushing it too far.

Also, I know you've been busy, but have you gotten my PMs and is there an update on my Alchemy situation?
Rubeus Emperor's avatar

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Naladi
From what I've read, I've seen legitimate points raised on both sides of the fence. That is, when the people on either side of the fence haven't descended into mud-slinging and name-calling, which I've seen an abundance of from both sides. From people who spend money being called stupid cash-cows to people who don't spend money/don't spend as much money being called butthurt freeloaders, it's been everywhere lately.

I can see the desirability for rewarding large cash spenders on Gaia, as a way to encourage people to keep spending money here to keep the site going, and to give other users who don't necessarily spend money on here more of an incentive to do so. I see the benefit and potential of such a program, but I also understand user's frustrations with how the club is currently being carried out.

The abundance of $100+ items in Club Verge combined with the relatively small amount of less expensive items in the shop gives users the impression, whether or not its true, that they aren't being rewarded but are being taken advantage of because they have shown that they can spend $100 or more on the site. Also, I've heard that the increase of price of the animated halo from the $10 that the original one was available for to the $25 that the recolor is selling for, has given them a similar impression.

The increase in prices in Club Verge in order to preserve MP value and keep the supply low has been a large bone of contention that I've seen. Even after getting in the club, some users feel as if they're being alienated because they belong to a middle category of people who spend $100 on Gaia annually but cannot afford to spend enough on Gaia in the span of a single month to be able to afford any of the exclusive items offered in the shop as a reward. It would probably be beneficial to have some items in Club Verge that are available at usual La Victoire prices, so that everyone in the club can have a reasonable expectation of being able to get something out of the club even if their budget is only the $100 a year that allowed them to gain entrance into the club. Coupon and discount programs for Club Verge members is another great idea that I heard that all Club Verge members would be able to take advantage of regardless of their relative budgets.

These are just a few things that I've seen, and my opinion as a non-member of Club Verge looking at the issue. But I did want to say, thank you for making this thread and openly discussing these matters with us, Sisky. I know tempers are running a bit high on both sides at the moment, but I truly believe that the only reason people feel so passionately about the issue is because we all genuinely care about the site.


I think it's best just to annoy the "mud slinging" and "name calling" as you will always have those that are immature on Gaia, nothing really changes there. Whenever a debate or sorts goes on there are bound to be people who take it over the top.

I do agree with you on many points on your second paragraph, Club Verge is an amazing idea - it should have given people incentive to buy to gain access to the club and should make those people who already support the site feel in some sort of way special and "wanted" by Gaia. These people who feel wanted will probably want to keep at it and support Gaia more.

Although the idea was good the implementation wasn't on par. But needless to say they're still working on improving it. They will add more features and edit others, and soon the idea will possibly work. There is one major flaw in this idea though. Elitism.

The more nice features you lend to a certain type of user, the more the other users will feel neglected. To balance this you could release features for everyone the same time you do for those who are in the other catagory. This will make people feel less neglected.
But peoples mentality of being neglected since they're not special will affect how well you can carry out a plan like this.

If you add more special features to club verge, the bigger and better they are the more normal users will get upset by the fact they cannot use those features.

It's just a risky thing really.
But I'm sure after many improvements Gaia will be able to fix this mess.
Kitty Gnar-Gnar's avatar

Sage Mage

siskataya
Kitty Gnar-Gnar
Thank you for this explanation but I'm sorry to say that none of it made me feel any less guilty, gauche, or depressed about being a member of Club Verge. It just feels... upsetting to me, to be rewarded for something I'm not proud of and that I consider of inherently less value than the amount of time and posts and friends I've made on Gaia.

I wish you'd come out with the social rewards first.


I understand, and I am sorry if you are feeling poorly! I am working on a social rewards system though, it's just inherently more difficult to do. But it'll get here as soon as I am able, and it'll be fun! Please know we value all your contributions to Gaia - you often make fantastically spicy posts, and have made us laugh on multiple occasions! We're sure others love your wit and words too biggrin


I'm sure I'll feel better once the social rewards are out, and probably so will a lot of other people.

Oh god, you read my posts? You don't hate me and I've made you laugh? redface Oh god. thank you I feel a lot better now actually
Chibi Halo's avatar

Barton Senshi

siskataya
Kitty Gnar-Gnar
Thank you for this explanation but I'm sorry to say that none of it made me feel any less guilty, gauche, or depressed about being a member of Club Verge. It just feels... upsetting to me, to be rewarded for something I'm not proud of and that I consider of inherently less value than the amount of time and posts and friends I've made on Gaia.

I wish you'd come out with the social rewards first.


I understand, and I am sorry if you are feeling poorly! I am working on a social rewards system though, it's just inherently more difficult to do. But it'll get here as soon as I am able, and it'll be fun! Please know we value all your contributions to Gaia - you often make fantastically spicy posts, and have made us laugh on multiple occasions! We're sure others love your wit and words too biggrin


          About those social rewards. Since it's kind of easy with Club Verge to have a benchmark to check every twelve months I get the feeling that's the reason the social rewards aren't that easy to come out with. I had mentioned in one topic related to all of this that maybe one way to gain more interest in the gold shops is to have an annual gold shop spending benchmark to check against to keep people active on the site. Then people who meet that benchmark could have their own guild, their own exclusive gold shop, and the chance to contribute ideas that could be used in future garage sale updates. I had mentioned using 100,000 in gold spent in the gold shops each twelve month period as a benchmark to check against. It would certainly get more people spending in the gold shops that aren't the D*C, even if it's for stuff like fish bait and rods for fishing. It would definitely give the non Cash spending public something similar to what the Cash spending crowd got with Club Verge.

Rubeus Emperor's avatar

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Really I just think if Gaia was patient about the matter and released the rewards for GCash spending users at the same time as Rewards for the loyal members this wouldn't have been so bad.

Of course the prices would still rile up a lot of users but the general idea wouldn't have upset many people.
Ysavvryl's avatar

Peaceful Lunatic

Thanks for writing this! And good job making an FAQ fun to read and easy to understand. I like the way you write posts. cat_3nodding

On money-related issues, I can't afford to buy GC, but it doesn't really bother me. I can earn a good amount with the cash tree and give a little bit of support each month that way. Plus, the gold shop items can be really nice and useful too. I would agree that it would be nice to have more color matching going on. I also like how this last gold shop update had simple basic items like the breezy set. After all, I've had trouble putting together some avis in the past, all because I had trouble finding a simple clean white shirt to go underneath a coat or other partial top! More basics like that (and socks) would help with that.

Of course, I'm pretty laid-back as it is. If someone can afford to buy a nice premium item, then there's no problem with them doing so.
Rubeus Emperor's avatar

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Honestly I'm surprised this thread isn't more popular.
I do think it needs more publicity though.
Perhaps use the announcement section to advertise it.
Or use Staff Alerts / Dev Notices.


Something you could include for Club Verge which is another benefit is the ability to create "Club Verge" esque neighbourhoods in towns 2 for a big chunk of gold. This not only would serve as a gold sink but it would be a nice futuristic club-ish environment in Towns. People could still invite their friends to live with them and you don't NEED to be a Club Verge member to live in the neighbourhood or visit it, you only need to be one to create the said neighbourhood.

It might be a nice little benefit for them, and it's definitely possible since Codemonkey is still working on Towns 2 as far as I know.

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