Phoenix Goliathane
(?)Community Member
Offline
- Report Post
- Posted: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 03:48:23 +0000
Better late than never to reply, right?
I will state, per usual, that people have been huffily declaring that Gaia is a sellout, corporatist site that's all about profitzzzz since at least 2004, and probably earlier. (I will also state that Gaia was at its best on November 25, 2003, and it's just gone downhill from there.) It's a well established fact that Gaia Online is not, in fact, a magical unicorn rainbow farting machine.
Moira? Mirai? Meili?
OH SNAP.
See, this is why I love Gaia sometimes. (The only way this could have been improved is if you'd posted a picture of Sweet Brown to go along with that graf.)
While I'm touched that you care about me and my ~4 million other friends that deeply and those are beautiful words (if my heart weren't a jaded black lump of coal, I'd shed a single manly tear over this), I hope you're able to see why GCD had collectively lost its mind (especially in light of the fact that if Gaia holds more than one revenue-raising event in about six months, GCD ALWAYS collectively loses its mind).
Or in other words, your words here don't necessarily match up to the actions of the parent company, which has increasingly seemed like, "HEY KIDS BUY THIS YOU KNOW YOU WANT IT mrgreen ".
tl;dr - some people subscribe to the Geek Fallacy.
I do think that people that begrudge Gaia turning a profit are dumb (after all, profits can get turned into investment - although some companies *cough*Apple*cough* just decide to sit on mountains of cash that can buy more hookers and cocaine than exist in the entire universe). But for me, at least, I'd rather feel like the profit is incidental - it seems kind of silly, but yes, it is kind of insulting if I feel like money is the primary objective.
In other words, please profit off of me, but don't make me feel like I'm exploited in the process. You guys have been treading dangerously close to that boundary recently.
Not quite (as a Verger).
The guild may be like that, and the incidental perks are definitely like that. The shop itself, though...not so much. And the shop actually is kind of the marquee thing at this point, at least from my POV.
Again, this is why I love Gaia: even the administrative staff is allowed to say "f'd up." (Hell, I wish I could get away with that at my job - except I have to be professional. To be quite honest, at times it feels like I'm more part of the oldest profession than anything, but I digress.)
But there's also the social aspect of that - you're with an exclusive group. At the end of the day, Club Verge is just me, P.U.G., my laptop, and a can of PBR. I think that's part of why it doesn't really feel like a reward.
And yeah, I know that I'm not forced to buy anything - obviously. (Although the July stuff was sweet, especially since I love that fire orange.) But Club Verge the store misses one of the most important things to a shopping exclusive - which is the atmosphere.
Interesting to hear - I'll keep my eyes peeled. I did bemoan the discontinuation of the AC discount, so I'd like to see what goes on.
As someone who gets swag thrown at them constantly because they throw a bit of change at Gaia: I hope you do! A lot of the reason why I slip a Jackson into Gaia's figurative G-string is because people make it interesting and I want to keep the party going, so there is a synergy between people who spend money on Gaia and people who don't spend, yet are interesting.
On the other hand, let's be honest - no matter what awards you give out, SOMEONE is going to get hurt over the fact that THEY got excluded for x reason. Whether it's post count, join date, activity, contribution, or RL spend, it's going to hurt SOMEONE. I'm just saying be prepared for rage (as that's the only thing you can count on from GCD and SF nowadays).
And this is actually kind of why people (including myself) got fairly up in arms over this.
The barrier to entry to CV is relatively low - someone who's subscribed to Autocash for 9 months will qualify. On the other hand, the highest priced single monthly item is $250 - or approximately what I've spent on this site in a year and a half, if not longer. (I do buy extra GC on occasion, but generally just rely on my AC.) The bundles are $550-$1000 - or approximately what I've spent on Gaia since I joined nearly a decade ago. (Yes, I know, this makes me sound cheap, as some people drop a grand a month. This also may make me seem insane, as I've dropped a thousand dollars on making my pixel doll look nice. My defense to the latter is that this is from a little after the time I graduated HS to the present, and considering I graduated in 2002 it seems somewhat less absurd that I'd spend $1k on a frivolous hobby over ten years.)
In that sense, there's a serious mismatch - I might consider buying something like the Neo-Gaia Anti-Hero (partly because I like the NGH), but I'd seriously think twice about buying the August backwings. (I might actually consider buying the Custom SD, but that's because it's a decent deal - for $500 you get a semi-functional piece of custom art.) And yes, valuations are arbitrary, as you noted, but...you guys do have to consider that the people that are willing to drop a grand on a goddamned halo are a very small, very vocal minority. We're not all 1%ers here, and the CV shop - which seems to be the highest-profile perk so far - is sort of geared towards the 1%.
Again, yes, I know, I'm not bound to buy anything. But I do feel that it's a bit presumptuous for Gaia to assume that since I spend $10 on AC bundles, I'll spend $250 on backwings or $150 on a tail.
Also, for some reason, Club Verge is ALWAYS my landing page when I go to Shops. I'd like it to cycle through to a random shop again, please - just so I remember that there are stores run by NPCs that AREN'T watermelon-flavored. wink
...are you trolling us, Sisky? wink
CS items tend to be more versatile, partly because they have multiple poses as a rule. On the other hand, there are GS items I absolutely love, that I instantly buy in ten different colors, so on and so forth. Heck, with this avatar, I got inspired in part by the new GS glasses.
More importantly, CS items have more "prestige" because by default they're more exclusive. It's always been thus, ever since donation items first came on the scene (yes, I'm including your precious halo with your blatant cash grabs emotion_dealwithit ). Hence, they're better by default.
I will state, per usual, that people have been huffily declaring that Gaia is a sellout, corporatist site that's all about profitzzzz since at least 2004, and probably earlier. (I will also state that Gaia was at its best on November 25, 2003, and it's just gone downhill from there.) It's a well established fact that Gaia Online is not, in fact, a magical unicorn rainbow farting machine.
siskataya
Hey everyone,
I wanted to make this thread so we can have a discussion about that seemingly most dreaded of "m" words on Gaia
I wanted to make this thread so we can have a discussion about that seemingly most dreaded of "m" words on Gaia
Moira? Mirai? Meili?
Quote:
...money!
OH SNAP.
Quote:
Finally, while I love feedback and sincerely cannot wait to hear your ideas and input on this subject, please refrain from making any belittling or abusive comments against Gaians who like to spend money on Gaia, or calling me (or other people) a money-hungry, money-grabbing, cash-cow herding, piggy-bank super-whore of greed and doom! Frankly, as much as I adore this community, that accusation is getting tiresome. Look, I don't have enough time in the day to be plotting soul-crushingly evil yet fiscally-profitable schemes! Actually, I wish I did - then I'd be an evil corporate genius and phenomenally wealthy and could buy my own personal island and stock it with a mansion, good food and lots of bulldog puppies! I digress -my point is to keep the conversation civil without slinging accusations and hurtful comments
See, this is why I love Gaia sometimes. (The only way this could have been improved is if you'd posted a picture of Sweet Brown to go along with that graf.)
Quote:
Some of us work all week, then often do more work more on weekends to make sure you are helped, and feel valued. We wouldn't do all that if we didn't care about you as people, and in deep ways that are far beyond anything monetary in nature emotion_hug
While I'm touched that you care about me and my ~4 million other friends that deeply and those are beautiful words (if my heart weren't a jaded black lump of coal, I'd shed a single manly tear over this), I hope you're able to see why GCD had collectively lost its mind (especially in light of the fact that if Gaia holds more than one revenue-raising event in about six months, GCD ALWAYS collectively loses its mind).
Or in other words, your words here don't necessarily match up to the actions of the parent company, which has increasingly seemed like, "HEY KIDS BUY THIS YOU KNOW YOU WANT IT mrgreen ".
Quote:
Profit. Profit ensures site stability, workers get paid, forums are maintained, features can be revamped and revised (e.g. Towns 2), and that you have a place to come even if you haven't spent a dime on the site in 10 years.
tl;dr - some people subscribe to the Geek Fallacy.
I do think that people that begrudge Gaia turning a profit are dumb (after all, profits can get turned into investment - although some companies *cough*Apple*cough* just decide to sit on mountains of cash that can buy more hookers and cocaine than exist in the entire universe). But for me, at least, I'd rather feel like the profit is incidental - it seems kind of silly, but yes, it is kind of insulting if I feel like money is the primary objective.
In other words, please profit off of me, but don't make me feel like I'm exploited in the process. You guys have been treading dangerously close to that boundary recently.
Quote:
We understand that Club Verge might be upsetting for some, but as I mentioned before, it is a best business practice to find ways to reward/offer perks to those customers who invest their money in your business. Ever flown First Class and sat in the fancy airport lounge? Club Verge is like that lounge - a way of rewarding people who have spent money on Gaia.
Not quite (as a Verger).
The guild may be like that, and the incidental perks are definitely like that. The shop itself, though...not so much. And the shop actually is kind of the marquee thing at this point, at least from my POV.
Quote:
Club Verge isn't a reward because you have to buy more stuff..for HIGH PRICES.. what kind of f'd up "reward" is THAT?!!
Again, this is why I love Gaia: even the administrative staff is allowed to say "f'd up." (Hell, I wish I could get away with that at my job - except I have to be professional. To be quite honest, at times it feels like I'm more part of the oldest profession than anything, but I digress.)
Quote:
This is another complaint I've seen around, and as I've said before, the concept of a reward is a variable thing. Have any of you ever been invited to a midnight shopping exclusive? I have, and it is a really unique experience. Basically, sometimes a store will open its hours at an abnormal time such as midnight, and invite its big spenders and customers to the store to allow them to shop for exclusive items or items that are not yet available to the general public for purchase. This is a long-time practice that I've seen for years, and is a form of rewarding people who choose to spend a substantial amount of money with the company.
But there's also the social aspect of that - you're with an exclusive group. At the end of the day, Club Verge is just me, P.U.G., my laptop, and a can of PBR. I think that's part of why it doesn't really feel like a reward.
And yeah, I know that I'm not forced to buy anything - obviously. (Although the July stuff was sweet, especially since I love that fire orange.) But Club Verge the store misses one of the most important things to a shopping exclusive - which is the atmosphere.
Quote:
Also, just so everyone is aware, this is just the first round of rewards for Club Verge members. Members already get a guild to socialize, contests, chance to win avatar art designed by a Gaia artist, free birthday item, etc. In the future as the shop evolves, I expect even more benefits along the way of free items, coupons, discounts, sales on Cash Shop items, etc. to come down the pipe. Not sure exactly what those rewards will be, but if they align with what I think will be coming, it'll be very exciting!
Interesting to hear - I'll keep my eyes peeled. I did bemoan the discontinuation of the AC discount, so I'd like to see what goes on.
Quote:
But what about different rewards for loyal Gaians who have been on the site for years?!? I'm broke so I cannot spend money - does this mean you think I am not as valuable as people that spend money on Gaia? cry
Not at all! We love all our members, and while we are working on ways to more prominently reward/offer perks to those who do spend their money with us, we love all of you the same.
Not at all! We love all our members, and while we are working on ways to more prominently reward/offer perks to those who do spend their money with us, we love all of you the same.
As someone who gets swag thrown at them constantly because they throw a bit of change at Gaia: I hope you do! A lot of the reason why I slip a Jackson into Gaia's figurative G-string is because people make it interesting and I want to keep the party going, so there is a synergy between people who spend money on Gaia and people who don't spend, yet are interesting.
On the other hand, let's be honest - no matter what awards you give out, SOMEONE is going to get hurt over the fact that THEY got excluded for x reason. Whether it's post count, join date, activity, contribution, or RL spend, it's going to hurt SOMEONE. I'm just saying be prepared for rage (as that's the only thing you can count on from GCD and SF nowadays).
Quote:
The prices in Club Verge are too high - you should lower them! It's not fair to charge so much!
With regards to the Club Verge prices, they were set high to help the items retain a higher value in the overall Gaia economy. These are fairly exclusive items in that the number is limited by the initial price of the items. Honestly, it's not like we expected to sell thousands of them and start having money fights in the lunch area! They're priced this way so those that really want to invest in the items or item sets can do so and get a good sell-back price should they choose to sell them in the vend/Exchange due to limited numbers. That said, we are taking pricing feedback into consideration and are happy to have you input on this!
With regards to the Club Verge prices, they were set high to help the items retain a higher value in the overall Gaia economy. These are fairly exclusive items in that the number is limited by the initial price of the items. Honestly, it's not like we expected to sell thousands of them and start having money fights in the lunch area! They're priced this way so those that really want to invest in the items or item sets can do so and get a good sell-back price should they choose to sell them in the vend/Exchange due to limited numbers. That said, we are taking pricing feedback into consideration and are happy to have you input on this!
And this is actually kind of why people (including myself) got fairly up in arms over this.
The barrier to entry to CV is relatively low - someone who's subscribed to Autocash for 9 months will qualify. On the other hand, the highest priced single monthly item is $250 - or approximately what I've spent on this site in a year and a half, if not longer. (I do buy extra GC on occasion, but generally just rely on my AC.) The bundles are $550-$1000 - or approximately what I've spent on Gaia since I joined nearly a decade ago. (Yes, I know, this makes me sound cheap, as some people drop a grand a month. This also may make me seem insane, as I've dropped a thousand dollars on making my pixel doll look nice. My defense to the latter is that this is from a little after the time I graduated HS to the present, and considering I graduated in 2002 it seems somewhat less absurd that I'd spend $1k on a frivolous hobby over ten years.)
In that sense, there's a serious mismatch - I might consider buying something like the Neo-Gaia Anti-Hero (partly because I like the NGH), but I'd seriously think twice about buying the August backwings. (I might actually consider buying the Custom SD, but that's because it's a decent deal - for $500 you get a semi-functional piece of custom art.) And yes, valuations are arbitrary, as you noted, but...you guys do have to consider that the people that are willing to drop a grand on a goddamned halo are a very small, very vocal minority. We're not all 1%ers here, and the CV shop - which seems to be the highest-profile perk so far - is sort of geared towards the 1%.
Again, yes, I know, I'm not bound to buy anything. But I do feel that it's a bit presumptuous for Gaia to assume that since I spend $10 on AC bundles, I'll spend $250 on backwings or $150 on a tail.
Also, for some reason, Club Verge is ALWAYS my landing page when I go to Shops. I'd like it to cycle through to a random shop again, please - just so I remember that there are stores run by NPCs that AREN'T watermelon-flavored. wink
Quote:
Why are Cash Shop items so much better than Gold Shop items?!
You know, I don't agree with this really, but perhaps I am missing something. I get that Cash Shop items have more poses and whatnot, but the Gold Shop items are pretty darn awesome too! I make a LOT of amazing avatars out of only gold shop items and wear them proudly. If anyone that feels this way can better explain this perception to me, I'd love to hear why you feel this way so I can better understand that point of view.
You know, I don't agree with this really, but perhaps I am missing something. I get that Cash Shop items have more poses and whatnot, but the Gold Shop items are pretty darn awesome too! I make a LOT of amazing avatars out of only gold shop items and wear them proudly. If anyone that feels this way can better explain this perception to me, I'd love to hear why you feel this way so I can better understand that point of view.
...are you trolling us, Sisky? wink
CS items tend to be more versatile, partly because they have multiple poses as a rule. On the other hand, there are GS items I absolutely love, that I instantly buy in ten different colors, so on and so forth. Heck, with this avatar, I got inspired in part by the new GS glasses.
More importantly, CS items have more "prestige" because by default they're more exclusive. It's always been thus, ever since donation items first came on the scene (yes, I'm including your precious halo with your blatant cash grabs emotion_dealwithit ). Hence, they're better by default.
