Let's talk about MONEY! Oh yeah, we're going there...

Money?

Money! Gimme! *makes grabby hands*	33.6%	[ 130 ]
Money is evil! *makes warding off evil hand gesture*	17.6%	[ 68 ]
Monkeys? I like monkeys! Oh wait, you said money...	27.6%	[ 107 ]
Eh, doesn't affect me, but I love poll gold!	21.2%	[ 82 ]
Total Votes:			[ 387 ]

[Fansub]

Moonstone Dazzle

I'm very confused by the sense of entitlement you all seem to carry towards this site. Gaia has been offering a social community to you for free for years. In fact, they still are. You do nothing but eat bandwidth on the site. It's hits, yes. But it's eating space that other users could occupy.

People threw a shitfit over ads. But ads never hurt anyone. People are throwing a shitfit over Verge- but as I recall, no one is saying you have to pay to keep using this site. So why the big issue?

Perks are just that- perks. We don't all get the exclusive airline clubs. But I don't think we all want to pay the extra money for an airline ticket. I don't think we b***h about that, though.

So why this? It's literally the exact same principle.

If you don't like Gaia's changes, leave. No one is making you play. "but I have friends here!" Get their contact info. "I like the forum!" Then quit bitching, or go join another forum.

It's really not that difficult. Gaia is a business. They like their userbase, but they are a business first. The paying users who send in the money therefore get higher priority.

People pay more for fast passes at six flags. Same damn concept. If you want the perks, great! If you don't, it's not going to kill you. Stop whining about how betrayed you are.

Gaia doesn't owe you anything.

******** THANK YOU for this post.

God, you people. I hope you're all really young and have no experience in the real world yet, because holy goddamn y'all are self-entitled and clueless.

Rich people will always be better off. They'll always have nicer things. They'll always get the perks. That's how it is, that's how it has always been and how it always will be. Learn to deal with it now or you'll be angry for the rest of your life.

That said, it would be nice to see some perks for the rest of us, based on things like account age, contribution to the forums, good behavior and so on.

[iTsunayoshi Sawada]

[******** THANK YOU for this post.

God, you people. I hope you're all really young and have no experience in the real world yet, because holy goddamn y'all are self-entitled and clueless.

Rich people will always be better off. They'll always have nicer things. They'll always get the perks. That's how it is, that's how it has always been and how it always will be. Learn to deal with it now or you'll be angry for the rest of your life.

That said, it would be nice to see some perks for the rest of us, based on things like account age, contribution to the forums, good behavior and so on.

We're all WELL aware of how it works IRL kthx. But, people also need to stop and realize that Gaia USED to be an escape from all of that, where everyone was treated equally and nothing was rubbed in our faces. Gaia is starting to feel more and more like reality, when it used to be a fantasy-based site where people could come to relax. And it's not as enjoyable anymore because of this.

People aren't self-entitled and clueless. People just wish the community was still considered as a whole, rather than Gaia starting to play favorites or cater to the rich. We get enough of that IRL, we don't need it online. It's splitting the community apart, and I know a lot of people that have already quit because of what's going on right now.

When you post comments like this, you're not looking at the full picture.

[Ping of Death]

I'm happy to read your post particularly about the issue of spending money on pixels.

[Mystic Requiem]

Thank you for posting this Siskataya! Honestly I grew tired of everybody posting such theories about Gaia. I mean, a business has to make money.

But I really hated to see that, according to some people, Gaia was becoming "Pay to win". I've been on the site for almost 7 years, and didn't buy cash on a regular basis until about 2 months ago. Up until that point, I still had nice avatars, and typically a nice supply of goldz. Cause I didn't HAVE to pay to earn gold. Yes it is harder, but it's not needed. That's why I love the site. I didn't have monies so I couldn't buy cash, but now that I can I do so happily. So if somebody calls me stupid for spending money on the site, oh well. I like it here, and I want it to survive.

Plus there have been some lovely masculine items that I just needed to get ASAP. emotion_dowant

[Shaarr]

Yorugami

Shaarr

My personal opinion is that the very uproar that made this thread necessary has less to do with the promotion of Gaia Cash than it has to do with the pace at which the buying incentives were pushed out lately. I've been back on Gaia for about three months after a hiatus of several years, and during that length of time, there's been the Fluff event bundle issue, the Spectacular Summer Sale and the whole Halo re-release thing, then the introduction of Club Verge, and less than a week after that, the first time Cash buyer reward and the shops landing page change.

I don't really have problems with any of those features, but seriously, that's a lot of Cash-related stuff happening in a very short lenght of time. A lot of users (and especially those who can't afford or don't want to buy Cash) are alarmed by what they feel is a whole new direction for Gaia. They are entering panick mode, fearing that they will become second-class users or have their accounts taken away by a conversion to a pay-to-play mode. Bottom line is: that's too much, too fast. There is such a thing as oversolicitation: in marketing, it happens when a too high density of ads causes the consumers to shy away. I feel that's what happened lately. Users felt like they were constantly prodded to spend, over and over. It's obvious that encouraging people to buy is just business, but the reactions speak for themselves: considering the sensibility of the money issues in Gaia, the pace at which the buying incentives are currently released is way too fast.

I'd like to hear Sisky's take on this.

This!

Plus the fact that users might need some time to recover
from the SUmmer sales and save up for more items spendings.
Having cash promos come at such break neck speeds kind of feeds
on user item addictions and make those who just don't have money anymore
feel bitter against Gaia. : /

Thus feeding the bad feelings of the community that's burning right now.

Indeed, there's that too. I have a friend who used to spend a lot of money on Gaia, and when she fell on harder times she ended up regretting it because they were mostly impulsive purchases made without thinking of her budget. That made her a bit bitter and she stopped visiting Gaia. She ended up selling her items to buy art though, so in the end it was a worthy investment. It's just not the kind of investment you wish you had done when you end up with nothing but mayonnaise and white bread in your fridge sweatdrop

[azndreams]

Chibi Halo

azndreams

Chibi Halo

Sadly though with so many young people here they rarely will want to listen about how a business works or even care at how the ongoing costs make for some of the decisions. It's like when you lived with your parents and they paid for everything and then when you got your own house/apt you realized damn food, electricity and everything else I need to survive actually costs money. How did my parents do it and such.

True there are going to be some who won't really want to hear about real world issues because they either just don't understand or want to escape all that stuff. Some people seem to have their fingers in their ears when it comes to the business side of things. However, for the ones who spend the majority of their time here and in the SF debating about these things a refresher course may be in order so they can at least understand why it has to be done.

Now I'm imagining a ton of avatars with poses of fingers in their ears. Ha ha. True a refresher would be a good thing for most people.

[Druddigon]

Verge could have been brought in a better way to Gaians along with the prices. I'll admit it's scary seen 100$ + for wings,halo,horns and tails. People just wanted the more common reward like discounts, that's not to say the rewards you are offering aren't bad but it should have been presented better.

The Cash shop vs Gold shop has always been a huge argument since cash items are "better" than the gold ones. However, quality has improved and letting users make more and more items is great.Hell, I love this months gold shop update! finally getting decent hoodies and cargo shorts! My one complaint on them still is lack of jeans and simple t shirts.

I understand you guys need money and I have no problem with it at all. I seen some avatar sites shut down because of the money issue.

Thanks again for making this post Sisky on the whole mess.

To the ones who are calling people "a** kissers" to gaia. Please, drop it. Attacking people is not getting your point across this thread. I get annoyed when someone says something positive to Gaia it's pretty much a** kissing them to you. neutral

I'm sorry but not all of us are going to think the same ways as you guys.

[Cerebus05]

I would just like to say on the behalf of people who don't/wouldn't/can't afford to spend money is that it hurts in a way and feels like an insult when the rewards that are right now release are more gears toward the people who can spend. Think of it being lame or part of an elite, but one of the joys I had (this is an 04 account) of being on gaia was getting those big tickets items and having others being jealous/envoy/aw-stuck/whatever feeling you want to put here, of my ava, and of my hard work that I did to get those items. Now, and this is probably where I feel most people are insulted by, is that anyone who hasn't spend any time on gaia can get those big tickets items with no effort. (Thus, however selfish or pathetic you may view it, is taking away one of the "joys".)

I understand why gaia would do things this way, and why the prices are what they are, however at this point why don't you just make gaia a nonfree site to play? Sure I can play without spending money however I still feel that games have bugs in them that are right now/will never be again fix on. It kindof feels that there is a disconnect from fixing things, or it takes a while to fix it, thus another "joy" of gaia being taken away.

I know that there will be other rewards for people who have high post accounts and days being on gaia...but when? I think that's the big question/issue right now. When are the people who put in effort over money going to be rewarded AND are those rewards going to be just as good as the cash items? (In the sense of poses and rarity. I know that you don't control the prices in the marketplace but you do have some control over how many will be release on the site at a given time. What i kindof mean by that is you didn't know now many halos you where going to sell but the opportunity of people getting them was open/control by you for a certain amount of time....if that makes sense.)

I know it's tiresome/irkness/and annoy to read the same issues over and over again, and that you can't please everyone all the time. However just maybe before you release a cash item reward, could it be follow by say a gold shop update or a non-cash item reward (and yes I understand that for "gaia" it's not really "free" due to server/artist/blah blah blah. ) Maybe there wouldn't be so many "angst" people if the releases where more balance like this.

[Fox on Stilts]

Thank you for addressing all of these concerns for us Sisky.

[Chibi Halo]

azndreams

Chibi Halo

azndreams

Chibi Halo

Sadly though with so many young people here they rarely will want to listen about how a business works or even care at how the ongoing costs make for some of the decisions. It's like when you lived with your parents and they paid for everything and then when you got your own house/apt you realized damn food, electricity and everything else I need to survive actually costs money. How did my parents do it and such.

True there are going to be some who won't really want to hear about real world issues because they either just don't understand or want to escape all that stuff. Some people seem to have their fingers in their ears when it comes to the business side of things. However, for the ones who spend the majority of their time here and in the SF debating about these things a refresher course may be in order so they can at least understand why it has to be done.

Now I'm imagining a ton of avatars with poses of fingers in their ears. Ha ha. True a refresher would be a good thing for most people.

That should be a joke pose in a future item.

[scullylam]

So many pages.... @_@ But I read all of it.

First off, I agree with Krissim, Naladi, Chibi Halo, and Meep.


These posts summed up how i feel about Club Verge and costs here on Gaia.

I been seeing a lot of people here say "Oh I don't buy GC so I can't get into Club Verge". This is not true. I know of users that have used the cash tree function and gained GC to purchase the items they want from the cash shop. By doing so, they have reached the $100 entry to Club Verge. So, if you can easily earn the cash on Gaia, you can be allowed into the club.

The club is made up mostly by users in the middle, those that are earning their GC, those that flat out pay for GC, and buying your items at various times of the year. New shiny RIGs and REIs are something I know I purchase and that was part of how I got in the club.

Now, I am going to rant some and it needs to be addressed anyway.

I am an Autocash subscriber. Even when I joined Gaia, I bought my first MC with my paypal account and kept spending on this site, buying cash cards and moving to Autocash because cards became rare to find. Because I have used my own money to support this site, I felt weird being allowed into CV. Here, my hard earned funds, I use to support Gaia but, Gaia only wants to reward those that "spend" their GC. What about someone like me? What about the user who is paying the $9.99 per month for a few years now. That is roughly $120 per year donated to Gaia. Is Gaia even getting my $120? Am I supporting Gaia like I think I am? sad

I wish this can be made clearer with the faq on Club Verge. I saw you have to spend that gaia cash but, it makes me feel as though I right out purchasing gaia cash does not count for anything at all whatsoever. I know I can be all "give me back my discount to the cash shop" or other nonsense but I think users that are like me, need more information. Even those that fill out the order form and flat out buy MC letters each month and all the others that are using their own money on this site too. There should not be a line dividing all the users here on Gaia. And by doing this with the private club, it makes me feel I don't deserve and belong there. I have gained access into VC because I spent the gash cash because there were items I wanted. But in reality, the club isn't for me. It is more for the highest tier, the 5% and less of this community. (percentage not accurate)

Reading the rules and hearing others opinions on it all, I still don't see how I can earn that SDPlus doll box I want. Sure I want to give Gaia the $500 flat out to be pixelated and be the most desu desu Nicu fangirl doll ever created. But, there has to be a balance on priorities. If a user has the funds to spend, then go for it. Just, don't spend your money on something if you know it means you have to choose between necessities and pixels. I bring this up because if I am someone that wants that item, others probably want it too. I'm stuck, trying to figure out how to save up to earn that item. By the time I can earn the item, it will be years of saving the gaia cash I purchase and by then, I likely would not be in CV. So what is my point?

My point is, that maybe CV needs to change its rules a little. I don't like the idea that Autocash and other cash buyers being thrown into another group, making more division of the community. If you had to make more reward perks and separate everyone more, it makes it feel more of a hassle. More lines drawn and so many people fit into other groups too. It's like... high school cliques. We don't need that Gaia.

Club Verge should cover all gaia cash/money related group. Real money purchasers (telephone/mc direct/money order, etc)/Autocash/$100 spenders. Already those that can earn the gaia cash on here without paying for the cash but have spent the 9999gc on the site should stay in this group. Sure they got their gaia cash for free but having to spend time to earn it, that is something to reward.

With others that doesn't care about gaia cash, make that the separate group. So, only two groups instead of what sounds like could be 3 groups or more if all these new perks/rewards/incentives are put into play here on Gaia. I already see that Gaia gave a perk to new users, enticing them to buy gaia cash. So, if a new user does that, what group are they a part of?

I really hope everything works out and it is good that this thread was created. Just, the timing overall is very bad. Having a gc related summer event/summer sale/mlp sponsorship/rig and new shinys/club verge back to back, that is why users feel Gaia is being money hungry and desperate. I am sure Gaia planned things out for certain timeframes, but delays can always happen. This all will pass and hopefully Gaia goes back to normal, until Halloween event arrives. xd

[Anti-Ling]

Fansub

Moonstone Dazzle

I'm very confused by the sense of entitlement you all seem to carry towards this site. Gaia has been offering a social community to you for free for years. In fact, they still are. You do nothing but eat bandwidth on the site. It's hits, yes. But it's eating space that other users could occupy.

People threw a shitfit over ads. But ads never hurt anyone. People are throwing a shitfit over Verge- but as I recall, no one is saying you have to pay to keep using this site. So why the big issue?

Perks are just that- perks. We don't all get the exclusive airline clubs. But I don't think we all want to pay the extra money for an airline ticket. I don't think we b***h about that, though.

So why this? It's literally the exact same principle.

If you don't like Gaia's changes, leave. No one is making you play. "but I have friends here!" Get their contact info. "I like the forum!" Then quit bitching, or go join another forum.

It's really not that difficult. Gaia is a business. They like their userbase, but they are a business first. The paying users who send in the money therefore get higher priority.

People pay more for fast passes at six flags. Same damn concept. If you want the perks, great! If you don't, it's not going to kill you. Stop whining about how betrayed you are.

Gaia doesn't owe you anything.

******** THANK YOU for this post.

God, you people. I hope you're all really young and have no experience in the real world yet, because holy goddamn y'all are self-entitled and clueless.

Rich people will always be better off. They'll always have nicer things. They'll always get the perks. That's how it is, that's how it has always been and how it always will be. Learn to deal with it now or you'll be angry for the rest of your life.

That said, it would be nice to see some perks for the rest of us, based on things like account age, contribution to the forums, good behavior and so on.

It's kind of cheap to call people with a problem about this clueless about the real world

They're likely so nervous because of the real world's system where a large majority are unable to enjoy much without making numerous sacrifices
I don't think many want to relive this part of reality (unless they're really ******** by it in which case they're likely on your side and think anything to make them feel like a king lording over serfs is a-ok)
I think they want to be able to enjoy quite a bit more than just having a nice avatar
They want to enjoy this entire little world...usually with other people!

Y'know
For what may be the first time ever I wish the role-playing focus survived on this site
then there'd be more of an appreciation of fantasy and world-building
the site would continue to stress creativity and continuity in even its sale-efforts
and disgusting people that only want to live out crude fantasies of superiority would be ousted
But that's ancient-talk

Guess I should just ******** leave~

[HeIIraiser]

Quote:

With regards to the Club Verge prices, they were set high to help the items retain a higher value in the overall Gaia economy. These are fairly exclusive items in that the number is limited by the initial price of the items. Honestly, it's not like we expected to sell thousands of them and start having money fights in the lunch area! They're priced this way so those that really want to invest in the items or item sets can do so and get a good sell-back price should they choose to sell them in the vend/Exchange due to limited numbers.

I'm sorry but this I can't really agree with.
You guys are now notorious for re-releasing cash shop items so what's to stop you from re-releasing these items and causing their value in gold to drop?

[Chibi Halo]

scullylam

First, I'm glad you agree with part or all of what I had to say on this issue. I too am an AutoCash subscriber here on Gaia and have been since the feature first came out. AutoCash subscribers have been the first people on Gaia to get perks for supporting the site. Yes you could say letters are a perk but that was only the first time. After that, they stopped being a perk and an item to purchase for a set price in order to support the site. Now I'm not certain when you joined the site and when you started getting AutoCash but in the beginning the perks for having AutoCash was more than just that extra 200 Cash in your reserves. Back then we were able to get discounts in the Cash Shop on top of the thank you items we get four times a year. The discount was only supposed to be until December of that first year but Gaia extended it quite a few times before they finally removed that perk. Now all we get for subscribing to AutoCash is our extra 200 gold and that little item every quarter.

If Gaia were to do as you say lump everyone who buys Cash together into one separate group and everyone who doesn't into another it would cause even more problems around the site. The divide I spoke of in my post is one that is entirely user created because of the perks and high end sales Gaia's been having in the last month. It's not so much a divide between the users and the staff because of the decisions being made at the HQ but a divide between the users themselves as a result of the Cash related sales and perks.

People who worked hard and scrimped and saved and spent several years of their lives working towards their Halos were saying they weren't even going to associate with those who spent their hard earned dollars to buy one during the sale because they didn't quest for it like that did. That was the first sign of the divide starting between the users. Then there was the non Cash buying public who had cries of not even looking at people who spent hundreds or even a thousand on the sale because they were being foolish with their money and probably just had it handed to them via mommy and daddy's credit cards. It got even worse when Club Verge came about. The non Cash segment was still going on and on about how people who purchased Cash in any amount had no lives and had everything handed to them and how they were the ones with real lives. They started complaining that they should have the perks, and have them first, and not the Cash people.

Even within the group of those who purchased and spent Cash you had those who didn't qualify wishing the perk was open to everyone who bought and spent Cash. Then you had those who did criticizing the people who stuck around the guild because it made them sick to know they were being lumped into a group like that. And now that this bonus box is out you have people who are saying they should be given one even though they are already a loyal Cash purchaser and some who are clearly distancing themselves from people who are taking advantage of the offer on a mule or two.

I don't thing Gaia intended to create such a visible divide between the users with the actions they took over the last month. People claim they fully intended to and have always wanted to divide the users through means of elitism with fancy shops and special rewards. Now I'm not sure what all of this will do the Gaia economy but I can full well see what it's doing to the users and it's not a very pretty sight. This could very well tear apart the fabric of what makes the community in the GCD, the SF, and the Exchange that makes those places so unique here on Gaia. I don't think Gaia's going to be the same if we as users survive all of this. It just might become a colder place to be unless something is done to mend the divide a lot of the users have created amongst each other in the past month and not even the Halloween event will mend it.

[Anabaena]

Right here, I'm just going to repeat a sentence I said before in another thread;

Gaia is like McDonalds suddenly selling 1000 dollar "exclusive" burgers. It doesn't work.