Let's talk about MONEY! Oh yeah, we're going there...

Money?

Money! Gimme! *makes grabby hands*	33.6%	[ 130 ]
Money is evil! *makes warding off evil hand gesture*	17.6%	[ 68 ]
Monkeys? I like monkeys! Oh wait, you said money...	27.6%	[ 107 ]
Eh, doesn't affect me, but I love poll gold!	21.2%	[ 82 ]
Total Votes:			[ 387 ]

[fairy pastry]

iTsunayoshi Sawada

I highly doubt the CEO will show himself. He doesn't even bother to dress up his avatar or show himself on the site. As far as I'm concerned, he's just milking this site for money without really realizing the consequences. Either that or he just hates the site and wants to bring it down, in which case he's doing a fine job. *shrugs*

Sisky might be a familiar face to most but she isn't to me, and that's maybe why I don't feel put to rest with this thread. Either that or I just can't force myself to look past these events, because I see what's really going on and it bothers me. I can't sit by idly and watch this happen, I can't accept it. And yeah, people can tell me "mind your business" but maybe I care about this site and hate to see it go down this path. This is my home. And each day, it starts to feel less and less like my home, and it scares me. I'm not opposed to change. Gaia has changed in the 9 years I've been here, and I've welcomed all of it. But this is not good change, this is harmful change.

But I don't think it matters anymore. We can riot, we can act out, we can raise our voices and protest until the cows come home. I don't think we're going to change anything, because I think management is set in their ways and unwilling to change.

I can't look past them, either. This site was a part of my childhood and has had enough impact on me to be a part of my life to this day. Like you, I've watched this site grow throughout the years. I've accepted most changes with a shrug of my shoulders, but this is too much, too fast. There have been a few of us who have seen this coming (you are undoubtedly one of them,) and we've constantly been told we were wrong. We aren't. We haven't been. I'm not going to pour rose water over a festering pile of dung and try to say the s**t's not there.

This is kind of breaking my heart. i know things change, I really do. Forums change. They evolve. But many have managed to keep a grasp on their core purpose. Gaia doesn't really seem like a community anymore.

I don't know what compelled them to hire this CEO. I don't know what is compelling them to keep him around, now, after so many of these major screw-ups. He obviously knows nothing about Gaia, its community, its past, or the wants and needs of the users. Well, maybe he does and just doesn't care.

[So Long Gay Bowser]

I'm very confused by the sense of entitlement you all seem to carry towards this site. Gaia has been offering a social community to you for free for years. In fact, they still are. You do nothing but eat bandwidth on the site. It's hits, yes. But it's eating space that other users could occupy.

People threw a shitfit over ads. But ads never hurt anyone. People are throwing a shitfit over Verge- but as I recall, no one is saying you have to pay to keep using this site. So why the big issue?

Perks are just that- perks. We don't all get the exclusive airline clubs. But I don't think we all want to pay the extra money for an airline ticket. I don't think we b***h about that, though.

So why this? It's literally the exact same principle.

If you don't like Gaia's changes, leave. No one is making you play. "but I have friends here!" Get their contact info. "I like the forum!" Then quit bitching, or go join another forum.

It's really not that difficult. Gaia is a business. They like their userbase, but they are a business first. The paying users who send in the money therefore get higher priority.

People pay more for fast passes at six flags. Same damn concept. If you want the perks, great! If you don't, it's not going to kill you. Stop whining about how betrayed you are.

Gaia doesn't owe you anything.

[Xelvorktork]

Here are my questions, and I am really expecting an honest answer from you:
Is Gaia going to shut down any time soon? Is Gaia facing serious economical problems?
Thanks.

[iTsunayoshi Sawada]

Moonstone Dazzle

I'm very confused by the sense of entitlement you all seem to carry towards this site. Gaia has been offering a social community to you for free for years. In fact, they still are. You do nothing but eat bandwidth on the site. It's hits, yes. But it's eating space that other users could occupy.

People threw a shitfit over ads. But ads never hurt anyone. People are throwing a shitfit over Verge- but as I recall, no one is saying you have to pay to keep using this site. So why the big issue?

Perks are just that- perks. We don't all get the exclusive airline clubs. But I don't think we all want to pay the extra money for an airline ticket. I don't think we b***h about that, though.

So why this? It's literally the exact same principle.

If you don't like Gaia's changes, leave. No one is making you play. "but I have friends here!" Get their contact info. "I like the forum!" Then quit bitching, or go join another forum.

It's really not that difficult. Gaia is a business. They like their userbase, but they are a business first. The paying users who send in the money therefore get higher priority.

People pay more for fast passes at six flags. Same damn concept. If you want the perks, great! If you don't, it's not going to kill you. Stop whining about how betrayed you are.

Gaia doesn't owe you anything.

Ugh... Okay first, you have the entirely wrong impression of what's going on here. To start off, all users are eating bandwidth in Gaia. The cash payers, the non-cash users, and the bazillion banned accounts that Gaia refuses to delete. The cash payers are active. The non-cash users are active. The banned accounts are not. But they're still taking up space. While the non-cash users may not be supporting the site financially, they ARE supporting the site in other methods. Support isn't exclusively financial. This part of your post really pissed me the ******** off because it reminds me of the same closed-minded self-entitled bullshit the elitist members of Verge are spouting, "you don't pay so aren't important and you shouldn't be on this site because Gaia doesn't have time for you."

And this is EXACTLY why I hate what Gaia's doing right now. It's not about entitlement. It's not about being rewarded for being loyal (at least, not to me). It's not about who got the rewards first, because honestly I couldn't give two ******** who got rewarded first. It's about Gaia's recent push of cash, and the rift it's causing in the user base. For one, Verge is a piss-poor execution of a "rewards" program or "incentive" to spend more money. Because as far as I've seen, it's actually pushing people away, even long-time loyal paying members. For another, the users who get into Verge suddenly have this mentality that they are Gaian Royalty, and Gaia should cater only to them. And that's not right. A site can reward its paying members if it likes, but you can't just go and blatantly shut out anyone else.

And while we don't have to pay to be on this site, many users feel that this may change in future. If people keep looking the other way while Gaia continues to pull stunts like what they've been doing recently, there is nothing and no one to say that Gaia won't start charging money for owning an account. For Posting. For recommending friends. For anything. People are in an uproar right now because of the over-heavy emphasis on buying and spending GCash. And if it's a "perk" or an "option" as some call it, it should be just that - subtly existing while not being emphasized every hour of every day. Airlines have business class. But they don't push you to get it 100 times during check-in. Amusement parks have perks like fast passes. But they don't constantly push them while you're buying your ticket. VIP passes exist for concerts, but you don't get 100 pop-ups while booking a ticket to spend more money to get one. THIS is where Gaia is going wrong, and THIS is what the noise is about.

People on Gaia who cannot buy cash are repeatedly having it shoved in their face; Spend $100, get into Verge and get "exclusive" items. Buy Gaia Cash for the first time, get 500k. How do you think it makes them feel? Gaia is no longer allowing this to be a simple option or perk. You do not blatantly reward people so openly for spending cash. This is why users are feeling betrayed, and I think they have every right to feel that way. Because it shows that Gaia does not care.

Gold is becoming harder to gain again. Booty Grab was capped, zOMG was capped, the games never payed decent gold to begin with. We get one Gold shop update a month, if even that. Yet, recently, we've had several updates for the cash shop a month, we've had a cash shop sale that included the never-supposed-to-be-rereleased Angelic Halo, then Club Verge opened, then users were granted rewards for buying cash for the first time, and now you can't even go to the shops landing page without being dropped right out front of the cash shop. And you think the users have no right to be upset? We're just supposed to lie down and accept this? No, I'm sorry but we are NOT just going to accept this.

People have every right to b***h about the current happenings of the site. They have every right to feel "betrayed" for whatever reason. Get off your high ******** horse and stop acting like regular members aren't important enough to voice their opinions you egotistical s**t.

[So Long Gay Bowser]

Uh, hello? I never said you weren't allowed to have an opinion. I merely stated that I'm shocked at the way people are behaving over this. We just had a dev take time out of their schedule to explain why Gaia is doing this- how it's a business and that's how businesses work.

What I'm stating is I'm embarrassed by the way the opinions are being discussed. Every time Gaia changes something, people act like it's the end of the world. And it's not. If you don't like cash, don't buy into it. It's not going to break Gaia, and it's not going to hurt you.

Gaia isn't shutting anyone out. If club verge items couldn't be traded for gold? That would be shutting out. But it's still possible for gold based players to make gold and earn items. It's just harder. From what I can tell, the exchangers seem to do it pretty well.

When the site ACTUALLY goes pay to play, then please, use that argument. But a feeling and reality are not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination.

You have every right to be upset- but express it maturely and reasonably. Gaia hasn't just cracked over people crying on the forums. From what I can tell, that's pretty counter-intuitive. You want Gaia to listen? Stop giving them hits. Get your friends to stop logging in. That sends far more of a message than going to the forums you have supposedly been betrayed by and talking there. Write letters and emails. THAT is more likely to get you heard.

And believe it or not, I'm not condescending to you. I have my opinion, just as you have yours. If you'd LIKE people to take you seriously?

Stop calling people egotistical shits and discuss your problems like an adult. Because I can assure you, as someone who works with public relations? Swearing and acting like a petulant child is just going to get your opinion ignored

My best friend plays the site without cash- and I envy her successes. She's damn good at Gaia, and I respect that

There's plenty of ways to be heard without swearing and whining

Edit: Edited for size. The largeness was annoying me.

[Shaarr]

My personal opinion is that the very uproar that made this thread necessary has less to do with the promotion of Gaia Cash than it has to do with the pace at which the buying incentives were pushed out lately. I've been back on Gaia for about three months after a hiatus of several years, and during that length of time, there's been the Fluff event bundle issue, the Spectacular Summer Sale and the whole Halo re-release thing, then the introduction of Club Verge, and less than a week after that, the first time Cash buyer reward and the shops landing page change.

I don't really have problems with any of those features, but seriously, that's a lot of Cash-related stuff happening in a very short lenght of time. A lot of users (and especially those who can't afford or don't want to buy Cash) are alarmed by what they feel is a whole new direction for Gaia. They are entering panick mode, fearing that they will become second-class users or have their accounts taken away by a conversion to a pay-to-play mode. Bottom line is: that's too much, too fast. There is such a thing as oversolicitation: in marketing, it happens when a too high density of ads causes the consumers to shy away. I feel that's what happened lately. Users felt like they were constantly prodded to spend, over and over. It's obvious that encouraging people to buy is just business, but the reactions speak for themselves: considering the sensibility of the money issues in Gaia, the pace at which the buying incentives are currently released is way too fast.

I'd like to hear Sisky's take on this.

[Yorugami]

Shaarr

My personal opinion is that the very uproar that made this thread necessary has less to do with the promotion of Gaia Cash than it has to do with the pace at which the buying incentives were pushed out lately. I've been back on Gaia for about three months after a hiatus of several years, and during that length of time, there's been the Fluff event bundle issue, the Spectacular Summer Sale and the whole Halo re-release thing, then the introduction of Club Verge, and less than a week after that, the first time Cash buyer reward and the shops landing page change.

I don't really have problems with any of those features, but seriously, that's a lot of Cash-related stuff happening in a very short lenght of time. A lot of users (and especially those who can't afford or don't want to buy Cash) are alarmed by what they feel is a whole new direction for Gaia. They are entering panick mode, fearing that they will become second-class users or have their accounts taken away by a conversion to a pay-to-play mode. Bottom line is: that's too much, too fast. There is such a thing as oversolicitation: in marketing, it happens when a too high density of ads causes the consumers to shy away. I feel that's what happened lately. Users felt like they were constantly prodded to spend, over and over. It's obvious that encouraging people to buy is just business, but the reactions speak for themselves: considering the sensibility of the money issues in Gaia, the pace at which the buying incentives are currently released is way too fast.

I'd like to hear Sisky's take on this.

This!

Plus the fact that users might need some time to recover
from the SUmmer sales and save up for more items spendings.
Having cash promos come at such break neck speeds kind of feeds
on user item addictions and make those who just don't have money anymore
feel bitter against Gaia. : /

Thus feeding the bad feelings of the community that's burning right now.

[So Long Gay Bowser]

Now that actually makes sense! And there, I will 100% agree with the both of you.

[Lady Cres]

I hope I'm not alone in this, but being invited to club verge is kind of... embarrassing. It's definitely a wake-up call that I spend way too much money on this website. I can think of sooooo many other things my $100+ could have went to this last year that would have benefited my life offline. Sure, buying things with gaia cash makes me happy, at first. But then the guilt sets in... and I just look at my bank account... and I ask myself why I did that.

I'm not saying that the people who buy things from gaia are stupid, or they waste their money, how they spend their own money is entirely up to them. If they have an extra $10 to even $990 to spend on gaia, good for them.

Buying things from gaia is like a drug. A really bad drug. And I guess it just leaves a really bad taste in my mouth to be rewarded for wasting money.

I love gaia, and that will never change, but I have to start spending my money in a better way.

I remember when the first $15 bundle came out (I think it was some kind of fish bundle?) and people had an uproar over that because gaia said nothing would ever be more than $10.

...times have changed.

[Beast Henshin]

Lady Cres

I hope I'm not alone in this, but being invited to club verge is kind of... embarrassing. It's definitely a wake-up call that I spend way too much money on this website. I can think of sooooo many other things my $100+ could have went to this last year that would have benefited my life offline. Sure, buying things with gaia cash makes me happy, at first. But then the guilt sets in... and I just look at my bank account... and I ask myself why I did that.

Buying things from gaia is like a drug. A really bad drug. And I guess it just leaves a really bad taste in my mouth to be rewarded for wasting money.

I love gaia, and that will never change, but I have to start spending my money in a better way.

I remember when the first $15 bundle came out (I think it was some kind of fish bundle?) and people had an uproar over that because gaia said nothing would ever be more than $10.

...times have changed.

You're the only person who I noticed who actually feels this way.

Everyone who got invited wears it like such a ******** badge of honor. Congratulation, you get a glowing dot (if it's your birthday) and a fullbody pin. Oh, and do spend an obscene amount of money on a one pose item, kthanks.

I prefer physical things of anything I buy. I've even vowed to myself if and when I get into Verge, i'm not gonna buy a damn thing until they come down to a more sensible price. My threshold for digital stuff is $10 -$20 in one sitting and not a penny more.

[Beast Henshin]

siskatya

I hate Club Verge - it's elitist and mean-spirited to those of us who choose not or cannot afford to spend real-world currency on Gaia cash!
We understand that Club Verge might be upsetting for some, but as I mentioned before, it is a best business practice to find ways to reward/offer perks to those customers who invest their money in your business. Ever flown First Class and sat in the fancy airport lounge? Club Verge is like that lounge - a way of rewarding people who have spent money on Gaia.

As I recall, those who can comfortably afford it also shove it in the faces of people who have to fly coach.

siskatya

Club Verge isn't a reward because you have to buy more stuff..for HIGH PRICES.. what kind of f'd up "reward" is THAT?!!This is another complaint I've seen around, and as I've said before, the concept of a reward is a variable thing. Have any of you ever been invited to a midnight shopping exclusive? I have, and it is a really unique experience. Basically, sometimes a store will open its hours at an abnormal time such as midnight, and invite its big spenders and customers to the store to allow them to shop for exclusive items or items that are not yet available to the general public for purchase. This is a long-time practice that I've seen for years, and is a form of rewarding people who choose to spend a substantial amount of money with the company.

Also, just so everyone is aware, this is just the first round of rewards for Club Verge members. Members already get a guild to socialize, contests, chance to win avatar art designed by a Gaia artist, free birthday item, etc. In the future as the shop evolves, I expect even more benefits along the way of free items, coupons, discounts, sales on Cash Shop items, etc. to come down the pipe. Not sure exactly what those rewards will be, but if they align with what I think will be coming, it'll be very exciting!

Why would you go to a midnight sale in some boutique when there's a perfectly fine Wal Mart right there? And they have low prices 24/7. I've been to one at 5 in the morning an had breakfast at the McDonnald's. Now that's an experience.

And I'm so happy that they get those rewards, because I have access to none of them at the moment, if I ever will. And i'm so happy that the money I did use (every now and then) to get a card is going towards some lucky high roller's art collection. That feeling in my chest...that's pride. And that feels good. So good.

siskatya

But what about different rewards for loyal Gaians who have been on the site for years?!? I'm broke so I cannot spend money - does this mean you think I am not as valuable as people that spend money on Gaia?
Not at all! We love all our members, and while we are working on ways to more prominently reward/offer perks to those who do spend their money with us, we love all of you the same. This is why Gaia is still free to play, and why we are working on a fun new loyalty program for members whose contributions are not financial but more socially-based such as posts made, time spent daily on Gaia, age of account, etc. As I've mentioned before, such variables are not yet determined, and we're working on a good way to use such variables to determine "loyalty" but that is taking some time. Not to worry, it'll be coming out as soon as I am able to get it all together, and I am excited about it! I think there'll be lots of fun things for people

Being 100% serious and not (as) snarky. This probably would have been a better thing to determine first instead of the so called "High Roller" perks. An easy transition into it, and there might not have been such a backlash. But shoulda coulda woulda right? Loyalty is a bit of a lesser currency. Though in some countries I hear tell it'll buy you lunch for a couple of days.

I'd also like to submit an idea. Those admitted to Club Verge cannot get access to these perks you have yet to iron out. You can have one, or the other, but not both. We have to have our exclusive too. Since that seems to be the name of the game.

siskatya

Why are Cash Shop items so much better than Gold Shop items?!
You know, I don't agree with this really, but perhaps I am missing something. I get that Cash Shop items have more poses and whatnot, but the Gold Shop items are pretty darn awesome too! I make a LOT of amazing avatars out of only gold shop items and wear them proudly. If anyone that feels this way can better explain this perception to me, I'd love to hear why you feel this way so I can better understand that point of view.

...
Whiiile it's true gold shop items are neeat... you cannot be blind to the amount of detail put into them. Hell, even Verge items have more detail than Cash Shop items. And that's where it all lies. I have yet to make a comparison, but I suspect the Mythril wings have even more detail than the Alchemy wings. The so called wings we've been promised since forever ago.

OH OH, I just got the best comparison for Gaia. It's becoming Mabinogi!
Those unaware, Mabinogi is a Korean F2P MMO that's been in the states since 2007(i'm pretty sure?) And while it's free to play and download, it's pay to win. Another aspect of Mabinogi is something lovingly dubbed "Fashionogi." Where people find it important to look their best while doing normal things within the game. That's putting it a bit plainly, but you get the idea. In order to do this, it's pretty much a must to spend money on NX Points for gacha (pretty much their version of CIs) and fashion slots. Gaia's becoming a Pay to Win MMO without the MMO.

[Chibi Halo]

Beast Henshin

Lady Cres

I hope I'm not alone in this, but being invited to club verge is kind of... embarrassing. It's definitely a wake-up call that I spend way too much money on this website. I can think of sooooo many other things my $100+ could have went to this last year that would have benefited my life offline. Sure, buying things with gaia cash makes me happy, at first. But then the guilt sets in... and I just look at my bank account... and I ask myself why I did that.

Buying things from gaia is like a drug. A really bad drug. And I guess it just leaves a really bad taste in my mouth to be rewarded for wasting money.

I love gaia, and that will never change, but I have to start spending my money in a better way.

I remember when the first $15 bundle came out (I think it was some kind of fish bundle?) and people had an uproar over that because gaia said nothing would ever be more than $10.

...times have changed.

You're the only person who I noticed who actually feels this way.

Everyone who got invited wears it like such a ******** badge of honor. Congratulation, you get a glowing dot (if it's your birthday) and a fullbody pin. Oh, and do spend an obscene amount of money on a one pose item, kthanks.

I prefer physical things of anything I buy. I've even vowed to myself if and when I get into Verge, i'm not gonna buy a damn thing until they come down to a more sensible price. My threshold for digital stuff is $10 -$20 in one sitting and not a penny more.

Actually, there were a fair number of people who felt the same way and left the guild. They choose not to talk about Club Verge anymore because of how it makes them feel. The first day or so after it came out people were saying the same thing she was. Some of them felt literally sick to their stomachs being given that invite, which is why they left the guild.

[Lady Cres]

Chibi Halo

Actually, there were a fair number of people who felt the same way and left the guild. They choose not to talk about Club Verge anymore because of how it makes them feel. The first day or so after it came out people were saying the same thing she was. Some of them felt literally sick to their stomachs being given that invite, which is why they left the guild.

I also quit the guild. I wish I could quit the shop too, but it will always show up by default when I go to the shops page.
I guess it makes me feel sick. I should have put that money towards more important things. sad

beast henshin

Exactly. It's divided what community was left, and now it's an us vs. them dynamic. I don't think being in club verge is something to be proud of.

Now, for the first time ever gaia has real social classes. The lower class are the people who can't afford any gaia cash what so ever. The middle class spend money on gaia, but not enough to be deemed special. The remaining gaians will make up the upper class. Sure, there have been "classes" on gaia before, but now it's been set in stone by the rewards system.

[Easley Lighthalzen]

I admire you for addressing the concerns and answering our questions even though you guys are somewhat busy, much like when Zero addressed my weeks-long super rant regarding my trade ban.

@Thread
Perhaps you guys can focus more on other stuff rather than items.

Make quests again, make Alchemy workable, incorporate zOMG to alchemy, stuff like that. If you keep giving us items, we might end up losing our interest.
I actually don't mind that you guys sell virtual stuff for cash. That's just natural.
What I'm not liking is the lack of basically everything else. e.g. content, story, feature updates, game updates, etc.
I love this site and it's sad to see friends leaving because of disappointment.