Items or Gold = Deflation or Inflation

[Lyonel Noale]

Inflation... crying

[Denham]

This should be stickied in every forum and used in an official announcement lol I think another option to help deflation is, if purchasing GC, buy an item to resell on the MP and list it lower than ABP. But it might be too late...

[Lyonel Noale]

Denham

This should be stickied in every forum and used in an official announcement lol I think another option to help deflation is, if purchasing GC, buy an item to resell on the MP and list it lower than ABP. But it might be too late...

Yeah, I feel like at this point the damage has been done, and it's clear that Gaia is only going to take a minimal effort to quell this inflation...

My goodness! Your avatar is simply gorgeous! Those rich, vibrant colours... so beautiful emotion_kirakira

[Nymphadora Tonks Airman]

:: points to my sig :: I completely agree with you on this!

[Eice]

Lyonel Noale

With a variety of new gold generators being released, I'd like to humbly suggest that you stop, think about what you're doing, and buy an item instead.

I'm not going to criticize those who buy gold generators, since at the end of the day, it's still your decision, and I must accept that fact - but I'm still going to make a few important points about the idea of purchasing an item vs. purchasing gold (or, choosing an item vs. choosing gold in one of the new item/gold generators).

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I BUY A GOLD GENERATOR?

As you probably know by now, more money is pumped into the system. If a majority of Gaians have more money, a few things happen:
-Prices in the marketplace rise drastically, because a large group of people can now buy items instantly, and as a result can purchase items that would normally be considered 'overpriced'
-Vendors can list their items at ridiculously high prices, because many Gaians now have the gold available to buy these items. Before, if someone overpriced an item, it was unlikely that anyone would buy it, causing that item listing to expire and forcing the vendor to either sell it at a lower price, or not sell it at all.
-Other services in Gaia raise their prices appropriately; i.e. Artists have to start charging more in order to keep up with the level of inflation
-People who are new to the site feel hopelessly overwhelmed when they see the prices of things on the marketplace. 1 million already seems like a large amount to somebody who is new to the site; imagine how it would feel to see items priced at 10 or even 100 times that amount. As a result, newbies are driven away, due to the fact that they feel like they must either buy something from the cash shop in order to afford almost all of the items available.


As an example, let's propose you bought a gold generator. Now, there are a few options that you have:

1. Hoard it. This raises the amount of gold each Gaian possesses, and the amount of gold in the system. However, hoarding it does not mean that at one point or another you will spend it, thus contributing to inflation.

2. Buy something from the marketplace. I'd like to acknowledge that, yes, a bit of gold is taken out of the system due to marketplace tax. However, it still contributes to inflation because the majority of the gold still remains in the system.

3. Spend it in gold shops. By bringing gold into the system, you contribute to inflation. However, by spending your gold in a gold shop, you do take some gold out of the system - however, this is gold that you already added, so it actually just neutralizes any effects you could have, instead of possibly being a good contribution for deflation.

4. Purchase art, and other services mini-shops In this instance, no gold is taken out of the system at all. Instead, the wealth is spread to a select few, after which they can choose to act in ways that would inflate the marketplace and devalue gold.

Now, let's observe what happens when you buy an item/choose an item instead:
1. Keep it. If you like the item, then of course you should keep it! And at one point or another, after time goes by and that item seems to lose it's shine, you may choose to do the following step:

2. Sell it on the marketplace. By selling your item, not only do you receive gold, you also contribute to deflation due to the marketplace tax! At the same time, you create more listings, may inadvertently force other vendors to adjust their prices, and give other users an opportunity to buy the item you are trying to sell. Overall, deflation occurs, and two people can walk away happy; one with an item, one with gold, both having successfully contributed to deflation.

3. Trade it or gift it. In this case, there's no inflation or deflation. This is the same with gifting, but unlike gifting or trading gold from a gold generator, no inflation will happen.

While gold generators may give temporary, monetary pleasure, choosing an item contributes to deflation, benefits more people through opportune listings, and gives a lasting satisfaction due to the fact that you had to work to list it and sell it, all while inadvertently assisting with deflation, thanks to a single choice!

TLDR:

Gold Generators are generally negative (inflation), Buying items instead is a generally positive action (deflation).

...What, you couldn't even just glance over my post? Do you really need this 'Too Long Didn't Read?' I italicized and bolded things for you! Goodness gracious!

I don't disagree with you, but I do disagree with your proposed method of causing change.

You're focusing on users. You're telling people "Hey, spend money, but get the least value for it that you can or choose an option that doesn't give you gold". That's reasonable logic to think that by choosing the item and not getting gold into the system it's contributing less to inflation. It's too narrow-minded though and it's never going to change because your audience is variable whereas your "speech" is static ...

Gaia sells the rigs because Gaia wants to sell the rigs. There are a lot of people buying the rigs. There are a lot of people buying the items from the rigs. There are a lot of people buying the inflated items due to the rigs. There are a lot of people who still cannot afford "luxury" items.

It's always been that way ... ever since people could spend money to get an item ... as in ever since the Angelic Halo came out ... there have been people with much higher wealth because they spent money and there has been inflation because of an "upper class". Of course there's also been people who have gotten wealthy with good marketing and art skill and other things.

Your argument to people of "don't buy"/"choose the item even if that's not necessarily what you want" isn't going to work because new people will come in ... they are going to see announcements and eventually stumble on the fact that the rigs exist long before they see your announcement ... some will find out what they do ... and they might buy it. It's the same as any game that has a "cash shop". So, your speech is "static" in that it's mainly getting to the people who are already here. If everyone here suddenly stopped ... then no one would be getting the massive amounts of gold ... except, whoops!, here comes a new player who doesn't get this message and purchase a rig and voila instantly gets all the items they want ... repeat this process ad nauseam.

If you want it to end or want something to offset the inflation, then you need to focus on the aspects that are controllable irrespective of users buying or not buying the rigs:

1. Petition to Gaia for alternate items/rigs/hybrid rigs that don't let you choose
2. Petition Gaia for more gold sinks
3. If you have a large enough user base ... artificial deflate ... sell things and then literally dump the gold
4. Charities, giveaways (which already exist by the way ... there are many many many Gaians, myself included, who have given away billions)
5. Teaching new users how to play the market of buying low and selling high


You're focusing on the users as though they're the ones doing wrong. You may not have stated it that way, but the sentiment is much the same. So many of these topics think that by saying "Don't do this!" it's going to make things different. That's like people who think telling someone "Don't cry!" or "Don't smoke!" or just walking on a sidewalk with a sign that says "Do this!" or "Don't do this!" is going to change anything. Try changing something in a positive way (positive as in how to gain and not attempting to take away to balance).

Positive effort brings about positive change ...


Probably the biggest thing that can be said though ... in regards to this big complaint that's plagued much of the site about how Gaia is much less fun (or no fun at all) because of inflation ...

My response would be ...

"So, this is why there are barely any good storywriters anymore. This is a business simulation site!"

The inflation certainly should be controlled ... but the amount of attention and complaints and control over the talk of the site it's getting is like a large portion of the audience at a baseball game complaining because they don't have diet sprite and then trying to tell other audience members that they need to bring diet sprite for the betterment of everyone else.

[avarcoe1]

I think that donating to charity threads might be a good way to control the problem of inflation. I definitely think that inflation is changing the way I use the site. This past week is the first time in three years on here that I spent actual real world money on GC. (To be fair, I've gotten a lot of free usage from the site, and I LOVE the dress up part, so I think three years is worth 20 bucks of real world cash.) I felt like I had no chance of continuing to obtain items I like (from the marketplace because I don't usually like the majority of things in the RIGs) without investing a little real money. (With apologies, I did play with the Project NPC Apprentice redface - it was an interesting experience, but not something I'd probably do again - I like purchasing straight items better.)

I have one question - in the history of Gaia, has inflation ever rose like this and then fell back down to more manageable levels or is this a new problem because of the level? Markets generally rise and fall, although this is an artificial market, so that may not apply here.

Here's my idea to solve the inflation problem, which everyone may hate: make donating to charity and charity threads something that leads to achievements and the power to do something extra (buy items from a special shop, earn special items, etc), then I think you would see some deflation in the market. It's simple, it's fun (giving is good for you!) and it would change people's behavior.

Thank you for the interesting discussion - I was hoping someone had a good explanation on here about the marketplace and gold sinks. This was definitely the best! heart

[96neko -3-]

I see what mean and it's true. Gaia right now is only thinking about themselves what about the gaians who can't get gold generators or gold itself. They would have to find a way like tek tek and giveaways. Some have to push their quests to impossible because of how expensive things are getting.
I could no longer get a Volent Reverie it was 20mil and when i finally get the money it went up to 70mil now its 180mil ITS ONLY BEEN LESS THAN A MONTH.

[Nenanah]

I bought gold generators using the free cash offers.
Mainly so I could snag some recolors out of D*C when they were there.
I'm not in Loyal's shop yet.
But I was sinking the majority into a gold shop, I don't like contributing to inflation.

[SakuraOHaruno]

amarzyciel

This should be a sticky xP
so people will know the impact of their decision to buy gold generator
in the end though, it is more worth it to get item than gold

you can't get much with gold, 1M feels like 100k =.="
and 10M con only gets you item that you can get with 1M before

a gold to item comparison and how it has risen will be nice

Heh, no kidding even working on a dream av seem more gold you get but still isn't enough to when price get higher and higher.

[Srintella Tiagara]

I've been waiting for a topic like this for a very long time. I realized that buying gold Generators was a very bad thing but only after the inflation happened and only after I was injured, unable to work, and at home with nothing to do but lurk on gaia.

It wasn't until the injury happened that I realized the gold system was so ******** up.

Than the realization hit that I helped spin the fall of the gold system.

My first reactions as followed with emonts to show the point.

burning_eyes emotion_facepalm scream

I will now, and forever more, only buy pure items.

And trying to stink gold.

[Astra the Fae]

I don't think people who buy gold giving CIs are doing it as a way to increase inflation but it's just what they like to do for fun. I honestly don't agree with "educating" people on why gold giving CIs are "bad" for a fictional and pixelized economy. I can think of more worth while subjects to educate people on like cultural appropriation or Trans* community issues. But that's just me.

Personally I buy the CIs because they remind me of packs on Perfect World International, the only difference is that it offers tokens which can be used to get other (useful) items instead of coins (the equivalent to gaia gold whereas gold is akin to gcash). I switch frequently between PWI and Gaia when I'm flying from quest giver to monster to instance because it takes a while. (Even with my pretty new kite) so I'll open the CIs up as a way to kill time.

And really...if I could buy the items I want, I would have with GCash. I unfortunately missed my shot to get Divinity Court Lucia from the cash shop, so I'm using all ways to get gold by whatever means neccessary. (I made a cosplay from Tektek last night and realized I was about 4 bil short of getting it. And kicking myself that I didn't buy it when it was out.) However normally for the cosplays I do for Air Gear, I normally do just buy from the gold shops. Because that's what usually works. (Except for my Simca cosplay, ******** Gaia and it's layering issue. //grumble grumble.)

And normally I do gift people the items they want or otherwise need which is why I get the CIs that give both items and gold, to be able to help those people out. Because I've been that person who had an awful time getting the items I wanted so I understand that. Recently I haven't done such because I'm sick so it's hard to stare at the screen with a pounding headache. .--.

TL;DR: Honestly it's all a matter of opinion. Just because you might see it as bad doesn't mean everyone else will, regardless if you try and "educate" them. It's subjective.

[Aristeia]

Buying an item contributes to deflation for one easy reason: it adds to the supply of items. I've written elsewhere before that if gold sinks are sinks, gold input are running water tap, then items are sponges that keep the water in the system. When there are more competing items in the system, sellers are motivated to lower prices unless they're willing to sit on a pile of merchandise they're not using. Well, some of them do it anyway, as there's nothing more they want. But what would make them sell? A shiny, luxurious new Cash Shop item may be what it takes to get some people to let go of their hoards.

In short, objectively:
Buying items with GC = GOOD
Buying gold generators with GC = BAD

You don't even have to forego profit. Not buying gold generators doesn't necessarily mean "sacrifice yourself for the good of others". There are some cash shop items with over 1 million gold:cash ratio (last time I checked) such as Counterfeit Bride, Drink Me 24 Pack, Collectible Mirage 6 Pack, Lotus & Shadow Bundle. Cheaper but still profitable items are Collectible Mirage, Night's Shadow, El Guapo. You can get those, sell it and get gold to buy other stuff you want without contributing to gold generator-driven hyperinflation.

[AtrosM]

Items, always items, and not even RIGS, I have issues with gambling of the "getting items" sort of. I learn of this on other site, I have gone over it and I don't want it to start in Gaia to.

[Esmurda]

Very well said and this topic seriously needs to be a sticky everywhere for all to read (even if it's known already).
To be honest, the only times I ever bought a few gold gens was when Flynn's Booty was first coming out, only because I hoped it would be a passing phase. Man...I was so wrong. However, as a recent free user, I am one of those who definitely agree that GCash (if I ever had enough) should at least be used in selling Cash Shop items, and never on gold gens.

[Aristeia]

Eice

"So, this is why there are barely any good storywriters anymore. This is a business simulation site!"

Joking aside, that's my true story. I joined to cosplay my avatar and talk about anime, and ended up learning about capitalist economy and the stock market more than in any pre-university economy class. And I spent embarrassingly many hours just refreshing the Just Added page hoping for a deal.

I agree with a lot of your points and the one that can make the biggest change is indeed Gaia, but I think it doesn't hurt to occasionally remind people that buying gold is not the only option to be able to afford stuff. Selectively buying Cash items that go for the highest price in the MP can be more profitable than GGs.