[Gaians Against Corporate] - Now with 80% more Dev opinion!

All those unhappy with the corporate style Gaia, please let the CEO know.

Dear CEO and all others at GHQ in power: I am unhappy with the way Gaia has been. Please read on to fully understand.	74.5%	[ 1086 ]
Dear CEO and all others at GHQ in power: I am one of the people who doesn't care either way.	25.5%	[ 372 ]
Total Votes:			[ 1458 ]

[Margo Channing]

Poor Lanzer. I feel sad about what has happened with Gaia and where it's headed. Tyro's post was a great start but I'm sure they know very well that other sites such as Neopets and MMORPG's like Maple Story keep going, even if they live on money as well. That's why I feel that they have to rush on getting Gaia into battle mode because it will draw in even more money, and it will. I think they need to see that events and things done for the users without charging them will bring in the users and adding in the more costly stuff will get those new users to buy. First though, they need to concentrate on making Gaia appealing, not by items alone but NPC, plot, event and Gaia involvement in general. If they provide those, then users are going to stick around ALOT longer, such as myself because they had something fun and exciting to do. I've stopped buying stuff from Gaia several months ago because of college, the loss in entertainment and the fact that I don't believe Gaia really needs it anymore.

Another thing too, is with the vend. The vending guilds that I'm involved with feel that they are trying to constrain venders making anything and I believe it's due to the fact that if we can't make good gold by playing the market, then we'll start paying up to get the things we want. Now that may not really be the case but if it is, users will still try to find other ways instead of sending in cash for their donation items, etc. If they've worked this hard to not do it, then they certainly won't give in now.

So yeah, the attempts being made to gain money aren't working well at all. Sure lots of users already here may put in some for anything new that comes our way but if events that are important to them and have been a tradition for so long end up leaving, then so does their interest and I'm sure you can add up the rest.

[Digitized]

Yilanti Maydow

I love Gaia.

Even if Gaia would turn into a corporate, only-care-about-money greedy site like Neopets, I'd still love it.

There's still too many fun things here. And up till now I have yet to find a site that can even come near its awesomeness.

Heck, I even support our sponsors, because I know it helps Gaia run. You want MTV to bugger off? Well, I say let them stay. You can ignore the shop easily.

You hate the Cash Shop? Well, you don't have to buy anything.

Everything on Gaia will give you the choice, and that's what I love about it. Most sites force you to start paying for fun stuff. Gaia is still very, very free.

I am ze Gabbeh...

I very much agree with this post.

But, I also agree with the fact that maybe Gaia is just leaning a little too much toward being too commercial. When I joined Gaia back in 05 I found waiting for me a great community and a fun virtual avatar system. I still find that when I come to Gaia, but its starting to be eclipsed by things that shouldn't matter. What about the plot? What about things that the Gaians AND Lanzer care about and not so much just the stuff that just makes money? I think the pinball release is actually a step in the right direction. I saw that many a Gaian loved said game, and maybe this is them trying to show us that they're trying to please the userbase again?

Honestly, I hope this place can go back to the way it was when I joined. I won't leave Gaia if it becomes infested, but if they don't start paying attention to the older user's needs soon, many will.

... drop me random PMs?

[M56667]

Cid High-Wind

amirenes

Arrowchan

amirenes

Arrowchan

amirenes

until i see a mcdonalds sign in barton town
im just going to keep doing what im doing on gaia

domokun

Unfortunately, that day could be coming sooner than you think. We already have a sponsor shop, what's to stop sponsors being put on the map? Theoretically they already should have been.

whats wrong with sponsor shops?
******** they should have more...

i enjoy the fantastical parts of gaia the magic and make believe
but a healthy dose of reality and fun things like realistic clothes and concepts im sorry

its what alot of this site needs
and its selfish of you as users to think otherwise

Hey, you're the one who insinuated it would worry you in your last post. *shrug* Personally I don't think it's a big step from what we already have.

It's not selfish to want content outside of sponsorship quests and cash shop updates. Generally I don't mind it, and am happy to take advantage of it, but it's hardly community building, and too much of it is going to drive users away, especially if it's not carefully chosen.

what kind of content do you want exactly?

we've been spoiled with events, plotlines, items, games

have you already forgotten the mini movie animated extraveganza they even made for us?



and when i meant it would worry me, i promise i meant only in the very slightest
seriously, if they want to put a mcdonalds in there sometime to pay for another feature for us

they can ******** do it.
and yah, they probably will.

but so what lmao

When is the last time we had a really good plot update? Events? We had no Easter, Christmas was an orphan idea thought up at the last moment and Halloween was about as good as it got. H2K7 at least stuck to some old views.

And don't even get me started on the piece of s**t that was MMVII. Even the staff hated it. And if McD's sponsored Gaia and we started getting Gaia plushies in happy meals...oh god, I'm out.

b***h b***h complain and moan

maybe if you would be happy for the things we have had
the efforts that were made and the things that are still being done in the spirit of gaia

you could be happy with it again

otherwise, i really do recommend you leave.

its too easy to complain i shouldnt have to tell you about that
your a regular of the biggest whiniest forum of them all and thats gcd

whats hard is seeing the forest for the trees

enjoying the plot we have had, the events we did have
being excited for the ones we will get

do you have any idea what it takes to throw something like that orphan event together "last minute?"

have you ever ran a large forum site, nevermind the largest LMAO

seriously this is hilarious

[Cid High-Wind]

Antiq

I'm going to put myself in the mindset of a corporate mentality for a minute, or what I think it could be, in devils' advocate style -

" A handful, or even a few hundred customers withdrawing their support or funds or voicing their dissatisfaction is not going to make any difference to my company. The more users we attract, the more kids we have buying our handy cash cards, they don't even need bank accounts any more. It will more than make up for any small protest on your part. For every older member who bows out, 10 more will join as we push the advertising for the site. We'll give them games to play and items and a battle system and they won't be particularly concerned about a "community". Gaia will be like an online videogame, they can talk about it elsewhere if it comes to that.

The only way you can make a difference is to seriously hurt my company wallet. How are you going to do that? You have no real power. If older staff leave, we'll get new ones, with no connection to Gaia's past. We can carry on without you, unless you can find a way to change my interest in this site."

And there's the challenge. How do you influence a corporate mentality when your custom is not actually necessary, you being the long-time members and possibly a dwindling section of the userbase. What Arrowchan says in her last post is the best possibilty, give them reason to believe in the financial gain of retaining loyalty. I don't know how though, I'm not a business person.

You bring up a very good point.

The only way to make that change would be to have a large flux of users leave all at once. And I don't see that happening. There are too many users who are THAT dedicated to this site.

It's not really the site I am dedicated to, but the people within it. If I really loved Gaia so much, I wouldn't be saying all this. I like Gaia because of the people who made it and the people who spent so much of their own passion and dedication towards it. But...when those people start leaving, what's left?

Either more users have to give, or a big change has to happen that'll make the higher ups think twice about it's user base.

There are far too many people who use this site that don't care about the community. They come here to play games, earn gold, buy cool stuff for their avatar and abuse places like towns. They don't give a crap about storylines and whatnot, they only want to enrich their virtual lives with gold.

Sure, events are fun and a way to get new items, but they have no idea how the community is supposed to be. It's really sad when you think about the Gaia I knew, and the Gaia they know are two completely different things. I thought it was ideas like that that the main staff were trying to avoid.

[Arrowchan]

amirenes

what kind of content do you want exactly?

we've been spoiled with events, plotlines, items, games

have you already forgotten the mini movie animated extraveganza they even made for us?



and when i meant it would worry me, i promise i meant only in the very slightest
seriously, if they want to put a mcdonalds in there sometime to pay for another feature for us

they can ******** do it.
and yah, they probably will.

but so what lmao

Spoiled with events? Like the Easter and April Fool's events?

When was the last time we got a storyline update? How often do we get them, despite Gaia's hundred plus staff?

When was the last time the 'weekly comic' was updated?

Did anyone even ask for a movie? Perhaps we should have invested that time, energy and money into fixing any one of the many glitches. What about games like fishing, where 'monthly' trophies are handed out every six months if you are lucky, and botting is rife?

Firstly, I want Gaia to pay more attention to fixing problems and working on requested add-ons rather than putting dev time into widgets that hardly anyone uses. I also want them to prioritise events, plot and communication so we know what is going on and why.

Have the cash shop items. I'm not even that fussy about sponsors. I just want the free community-building content to stay creative and regular. Work on whatever features you like, but don't 'skip over' content we have come to expect and enjoy for 'pay as you go'. There's no reason why we can't have both, and I think it will do more damage to Gaia than people realise if that content is ignored because it is one of the very attractive things about Gaia and it is one of the things that keeps people coming back.

[Digitized]

Arrowchan

amirenes

what kind of content do you want exactly?

we've been spoiled with events, plotlines, items, games

have you already forgotten the mini movie animated extraveganza they even made for us?



and when i meant it would worry me, i promise i meant only in the very slightest
seriously, if they want to put a mcdonalds in there sometime to pay for another feature for us

they can ******** do it.
and yah, they probably will.

but so what lmao

Spoiled with events? Like the Easter and April Fool's events?

When was the last time we got a storyline update? How often do we get them, despite Gaia's hundred plus staff?

When was the last time the 'weekly comic' was updated?

Did anyone even ask for a movie? Perhaps we should have invested that time, energy and money into fixing any one of the many glitches. What about games like fishing, where 'monthly' trophies are handed out every six months if you are lucky, and botting is rife?

Firstly, I want Gaia to pay more attention to fixing problems and working on requested add-ons rather than putting dev time into widgets that hardly anyone uses. I also want them to prioritise events, plot and communication so we know what is going on and why.

Have the cash shop items. I'm not even that fussy about sponsors. I just want the free community-building content to stay creative and regular. Work on whatever features you like, but don't 'skip over' content we have come to expect and enjoy for 'pay as you go'. There's no reason why we can't have both, and I think it will do more damage to Gaia than people realise if that content is ignored because it is one of the very attractive things about Gaia and it is one of the things that keeps people coming back.

Here, here. There are horrible glitches in the system that need to be fixed for the userbase to enjoy their AVERAGE Gaian lives. Not just to make it easier. How many people have complained about the glitchy profiles? A lot. Have they done anything about it? Nope. They just fixed the layering on the Penguin/Seal Slippers after years of having them. Could this have been fixed had they paid attention and stepped back from things that the userbase didn't really require at the moment? Probably.

[DeathIsInLoveWithMe]

'Cause to me everyday is Halloween
I have given up hiding and started to fight

Reading that was really sad, and it really clarifies lots of things I thought was confusing with this whole gaia-gone-commercialized deal.

I suggest we make a thread in the feedback-forum "Gaians Against Corporate" would be a good title, and we should make clear exactly what we want and what we do not want. If anything it could be a GCD's feedback-thread on the commercialisation (even though some GCD-ers probably will disagree, I do feel though, that most of us do agree generally what we want Gaia to be, even though we disagree on the details). We also need to find someone eloquent enough to explain what exactly gaia is (in simple terms, and make it not too long to read), and such. Also, maybe a petition is needed, requesting gaia not to become a corporate giant.

I also think we should shun the "get gaia on tv, etc" thing until they understand that this is not what we want.

And to all you that go: "oh but it won't help, the sponsors will just do whatever they want anyway *whine, moan, sulk*". That is ******** WEAK! Sure, it is a possibility, but there is also a possibility they will listen to us, the users. As the dev pointed out, they do actually look at the feedback forum! If they decide NOT to listen to us users, then so be it, then we have done everything we could. If we do nothing on the other hand, we will only have ourselves to thank if the current development does not stop, because, face it, if we don't give them a reason to change other than complain a bit every now and then, there is no way they will listen.

[M56667]

Millennium Falcon

amirenes

Baldr

amirenes

until i see a mcdonalds sign in barton town
im just going to keep doing what im doing on gaia

domokun

We've already got an MTV store.

uhh mtv is a great sponsor
popular music and internet culture were made to be partners

im not one of those people who hates it because it talks about popular music and w/e

ive always found it to be a rather entertaining medium and enjoyed it for what it is
just like i do with gaia.


a fastfood place that sells burgers im not sure i could understand it being a sponsor
and thats where my problem would lie

Your argument would be valid if the sponsorship was actually about music. Instead, it's about a reality show about a group of stuck up girls and their spoiled life.

I fail to see how that has anything to do with music at all.

yah im not about to get techincal here and remind you that mtv as a sponsor
means more than just mtv as the chnl

but whatever LOL
your bias is incredible

mtv is a great sponsor i jumped for joy when i saw gaia and them teamed up
and i cant wait to see what other things it will allow us to bring to gaia

people and features and yes, even more sponsors of the same kind of genre included
blaugh

[M56667]

Arrowchan

amirenes

what kind of content do you want exactly?

we've been spoiled with events, plotlines, items, games

have you already forgotten the mini movie animated extraveganza they even made for us?



and when i meant it would worry me, i promise i meant only in the very slightest
seriously, if they want to put a mcdonalds in there sometime to pay for another feature for us

they can ******** do it.
and yah, they probably will.

but so what lmao

Spoiled with events? Like the Easter and April Fool's events?

When was the last time we got a storyline update? How often do we get them, despite Gaia's hundred plus staff?

When was the last time the 'weekly comic' was updated?

Did anyone even ask for a movie? Perhaps we should have invested that time, energy and money into fixing any one of the many glitches. What about games like fishing, where 'monthly' trophies are handed out every six months if you are lucky, and botting is rife?

Firstly, I want Gaia to pay more attention to fixing problems and working on requested add-ons rather than putting dev time into widgets that hardly anyone uses. I also want them to prioritise events, plot and communication so we know what is going on and why.

Have the cash shop items. I'm not even that fussy about sponsors. I just want the free community-building content to stay creative and regular. Work on whatever features you like, but don't 'skip over' content we have come to expect and enjoy for 'pay as you go'. There's no reason why we can't have both, and I think it will do more damage to Gaia than people realise if that content is ignored because it is one of the very attractive things about Gaia and it is one of the things that keeps people coming back.

those all sound like alot of problems that dev could have fixed before they pitched a fit and quit
over something as silly as "losing the community spirit"

[Digitized]

amirenes

Millennium Falcon

amirenes

Baldr

amirenes

until i see a mcdonalds sign in barton town
im just going to keep doing what im doing on gaia

domokun

We've already got an MTV store.

uhh mtv is a great sponsor
popular music and internet culture were made to be partners

im not one of those people who hates it because it talks about popular music and w/e

ive always found it to be a rather entertaining medium and enjoyed it for what it is
just like i do with gaia.


a fastfood place that sells burgers im not sure i could understand it being a sponsor
and thats where my problem would lie

Your argument would be valid if the sponsorship was actually about music. Instead, it's about a reality show about a group of stuck up girls and their spoiled life.

I fail to see how that has anything to do with music at all.

yah im not about to get techincal here and remind you that mtv as a sponsor
means more than just mtv as the chnl

but whatever LOL
your bias is incredible

mtv is a great sponsor i jumped for joy when i saw gaia and them teamed up
and i cant wait to see what other things it will allow us to bring to gaia

people and features and yes, even more sponsor of the same kind of genre included
blaugh

I am ze Gabbeh...

Actually, MTV as a sponsor does indeed mean MTV as a channel. The Hills? MTV show am I not mistaken? All we've seen so far is things related to the MTV channel and really nothing to do with music.

... drop me random PMs?

[Antiq]

Cid High-Wind

Antiq

I'm going to put myself in the mindset of a corporate mentality for a minute, or what I think it could be, in devils' advocate style -

" A handful, or even a few hundred customers withdrawing their support or funds or voicing their dissatisfaction is not going to make any difference to my company. The more users we attract, the more kids we have buying our handy cash cards, they don't even need bank accounts any more. It will more than make up for any small protest on your part. For every older member who bows out, 10 more will join as we push the advertising for the site. We'll give them games to play and items and a battle system and they won't be particularly concerned about a "community". Gaia will be like an online videogame, they can talk about it elsewhere if it comes to that.

The only way you can make a difference is to seriously hurt my company wallet. How are you going to do that? You have no real power. If older staff leave, we'll get new ones, with no connection to Gaia's past. We can carry on without you, unless you can find a way to change my interest in this site."

And there's the challenge. How do you influence a corporate mentality when your custom is not actually necessary, you being the long-time members and possibly a dwindling section of the userbase. What Arrowchan says in her last post is the best possibilty, give them reason to believe in the financial gain of retaining loyalty. I don't know how though, I'm not a business person.

You bring up a very good point.

The only way to make that change would be to have a large flux of users leave all at once. And I don't see that happening. There are too many users who are THAT dedicated to this site.

It's not really the site I am dedicated to, but the people within it. If I really loved Gaia so much, I wouldn't be saying all this. I like Gaia because of the people who made it and the people who spent so much of their own passion and dedication towards it. But...when those people start leaving, what's left?

Either more users have to give, or a big change has to happen that'll make the higher ups think twice about it's user base.

There are far too many people who use this site that don't care about the community. They come here to play games, earn gold, buy cool stuff for their avatar and abuse places like towns. They don't give a crap about storylines and whatnot, they only want to enrich their virtual lives with gold.

Sure, events are fun and a way to get new items, but they have no idea how the community is supposed to be. It's really sad when you think about the Gaia I knew, and the Gaia they know are two completely different things. I thought it was ideas like that that the main staff were trying to avoid.

There's the nub of it. That's all Gaia needs to maintain itself unless somebody around here with a good business head can prove to them that it is financially worthwhile rethinking that scenario.

[Gamine]

I agree with a lot of what's being said here, even some of the contradictory stuff.

I agree with Cid that hearing this kind of thing straight from the horses mouth does make me uncomfortable. While I haven't liked ALL of changes Gaia has made, it was always a comfort to think that as long as the staff believed in what they are doing and that there would be some sort of beneficial end goal that would justify the means, then I would be willing to just accept it. I mean, if your captain wants to take the dangerous route through the Rocky Strait of Doom on your way to the New World, you trust him, because he is your captain and he has that post for a reason.
But to hear now that this is not entirely the case..and it isn't just this journal entry, either.
People can sense when a website has a shift in priorities. It's not always a conscious thing, you can't always put your finger on it, but it's there. Even sheep can sense when they are being led to the slaughter (but they can't do anything about it because hello, they are sheep wink ).

But I also agree with amirenes; I've always been very easy-going, I like to roll with the punches. Fighting the current isn't as much fun as seeing where it takes you. I enjoy the site as much as I ever have, maybe more. I don't try to make Gaia a bigger deal than it is, sometimes it pays just to take a step back and see, "Oh, okay, it's just Gaia". Refocusing like that really does help, I find; it refreshes you. It makes you remember exactly what keeps you here, and all the fun stuff this place still has to offer.


(ps using Battle as a scapegoat is not going to get us anywhere so let's please not do it)

[Hitokiri Hitaru]

Arrowchan

amirenes

what kind of content do you want exactly?

we've been spoiled with events, plotlines, items, games

have you already forgotten the mini movie animated extraveganza they even made for us?



and when i meant it would worry me, i promise i meant only in the very slightest
seriously, if they want to put a mcdonalds in there sometime to pay for another feature for us

they can ******** do it.
and yah, they probably will.

but so what lmao

Spoiled with events? Like the Easter and April Fool's events?

When was the last time we got a storyline update? How often do we get them, despite Gaia's hundred plus staff?

When was the last time the 'weekly comic' was updated?

Did anyone even ask for a movie? Perhaps we should have invested that time, energy and money into fixing any one of the many glitches. What about games like fishing, where 'monthly' trophies are handed out every six months if you are lucky, and botting is rife?

Firstly, I want Gaia to pay more attention to fixing problems and working on requested add-ons rather than putting dev time into widgets that hardly anyone uses. I also want them to prioritise events, plot and communication so we know what is going on and why.

Have the cash shop items. I'm not even that fussy about sponsors. I just want the free community-building content to stay creative and regular. Work on whatever features you like, but don't 'skip over' content we have come to expect and enjoy for 'pay as you go'. There's no reason why we can't have both, and I think it will do more damage to Gaia than people realise if that content is ignored because it is one of the very attractive things about Gaia and it is one of the things that keeps people coming back.

Kudos to you Arrowchan!

That's how I feel~

[Lindpen]

Witch Endora

Poor Lanzer. I feel sad about what has happened with Gaia and where it's headed. Tyro's post was a great start but I'm sure they know very well that other sites such as Neopets and MMORPG's like Maple Story keep going, even if they live on money as well. That's why I feel that they have to rush on getting Gaia into battle mode because it will draw in even more money, and it will. I think they need to see that events and things done for the users without charging them will bring in the users and adding in the more costly stuff will get those new users to buy. First though, they need to concentrate on making Gaia appealing, not by items alone but NPC, plot, event and Gaia involvement in general. If they provide those, then users are going to stick around ALOT longer, such as myself because they had something fun and exciting to do. I've stopped buying stuff from Gaia several months ago because of college, the loss in entertainment and the fact that I don't believe Gaia really needs it anymore.

Another thing too, is with the vend. The vending guilds that I'm involved with feel that they are trying to constrain venders making anything and I believe it's due to the fact that if we can't make good gold by playing the market, then we'll start paying up to get the things we want. Now that may not really be the case but if it is, users will still try to find other ways instead of sending in cash for their donation items, etc. If they've worked this hard to not do it, then they certainly won't give in now.

So yeah, the attempts being made to gain money aren't working well at all. Sure lots of users already here may put in some for anything new that comes our way but if events that are important to them and have been a tradition for so long end up leaving, then so does their interest and I'm sure you can add up the rest.

One thing I'm afraid of is the Maple Story direction. Battle will bring in money, and I understand that a lot of staff are working hard on it, but I don't want Battle to become the focus of the site.

[AlexDitto]

I had no idea it was this bad, but I can't say I'm surprised.

Corporate sponsorships WERE a slippery slope, and we're not just starting to slide down, we done slid.

I know what Gaia's going to become. Slowly, all the old devs will leave, and be replaced with code monkies. The site will lose its' soul. After the battle system is out, what projects do you think the huge battle system team is going to be put on? That's right, sponsorships.

I'm not sure what we can do about it. I don't really know if it's possible to "undo" a company's change into a corporation. They're going to see big bucks and more users and who cares if a few vocal members leave? In fact, they probably wish we'd leave. We're the hardest to please, because we demand the website have soul.

I just don't know if they realize that attracting thousands of new users without having a strong underlying community to generate the content that attracts the users in the first place... is worthless, in my opinion. Those new users won't stick. They'll wander away. But that won't matter, because it's just the ad views that count. As long as they can keep producing more people to look at more advertisements, they're winning.

It's not as if I don't like sponsorships. I do. I thought the Tsubasa sponsorship and the Naruto sponsorships are in line with what we like, and we get cool items out of it. But taking the power out of the hands of the devs and putting it in the pocket of higher ups who are out of touch with the community's needs and wants? That's unacceptable, and it's a good way to run your business into the ground. Typical corporate baby-boomer mentality: some 50 year old fat cat sits in his office suite and thinks he knows best, thinks he should call all the shots. It's what this country's businesses have been running on for the past fifty years, and until every baby boomer is dead, there will still be businesses running it.

But it's not the right way to do things. Look at Google. Why are they so successful? Because they put the power in the hands of the people who actually work on projects. Their 20% time concept has revolutionized their product line.

Thank you, Cid, for making this post, and alerting me to Barb's journal entry. I'm not sure what we can do about it, but I'm here with you for whatever we can.