[Gaians Against Corporate] - Now with 80% more Dev opinion!

All those unhappy with the corporate style Gaia, please let the CEO know.

Dear CEO and all others at GHQ in power: I am unhappy with the way Gaia has been. Please read on to fully understand.	74.5%	[ 1086 ]
Dear CEO and all others at GHQ in power: I am one of the people who doesn't care either way.	25.5%	[ 372 ]
Total Votes:			[ 1458 ]

[Arrowchan]

[ Admiral Suzie ]

I apologize for this, I posted this on page 8, right when that mild flamefest was going on and I'm worried that this was skipped over.
I wouldn't have posted this if I didn't want feedback. sweatdrop

So sorry! At the very least I'm bumping up the thread. whee I don't normally repost what I've already written but this isn't an ordinary topic.

[ Admiral Suzie ]

I was nearly done reading Arrowchan's M-M-M-MONSTER POST on page 3 when I realized something.

No one respects this website. At least not anymore.
Yes, duh, people are mean on teh internets lol but I've been around here long enough to know that the level of complaining and bitchiness that is reflected, at least in the GCD, is new. When I started to post in this forum around 2005 or 2006 it wasn't like this at all. We were all so busy enjoying ourselves, coming up with new ideas for the plots, for items and for every damn thing this site does that if something went wrong only newer users or trolls were the ones complaining.

Now I dunno exactly when it started up, and I don't know exactly how it ties into the changes Gaia has gone through but if anyone is going to start behaving themselves and being polite as they were and as they should be then I think Gaia needs to make the first step instead of us. We all know what happens when someone makes a thread to discuss/whine/b***h or rant about how rude we are. There is just no way we can convince the forum to be more constructive instead of complaining all the time.

I think that it would be more beneficial if we had an announcement or something from Lanzer (because we all see him as the head of Gaia, even if it's not the case anymore) that mentioned the problems Gaia is going through, apologizes for any heartbreak that it caused and asks us for a second chance. Or something. Something that shows humility and sincerity and gives us all hope for the future of Gaia.
If Gaia could earn more respect from it's users I think that would be a huge step in the right direction to fix this site, to make it less corporate and more friendly and fun and everything it was when I joined 4 years ago. We would be so much more able to provide the necessary feedback to bring this website back to what it once was.

Honestly I feel a bit embarrassed to still post here, even though I still love the site too much to leave. I don't like to tell my friends I use Gaia, because I know that Gaia no longer as enjoyable as it was and should be.

Haha. ^^;;; Sorry for the text wall.

Yeah, I agree. I'm feeling the discontent, and it just seems to me that the problems should not be too hard to fix. I think Lanzer's recent Easter post was a good start.

I'm not campaigning for Gaia to get rid of sponsors or the cash shop. I am happy for Gaia to make money. I WANT it to make money. Oodles of money is win. Theoretically, the more money we have, the more flexibility we have.

However, I am not happy for Gaia to disenfranchise users who are relatively easily kept happy.

What do I want?

More communication (which is free aside from a few minutes of someone's time).

More plot (which can be accomplished with one staff member out of one hundred working on it full time or mostly full time, or several part time).

Regular events (which takes more resources, but are already mostly coded and should theoretically get even easier to put together with time). Note that I did not say MORE events, I just said REGULAR events. That means Easter, Christmas, Halloween and maybe a few mini events like Valentine's Day.

Creativity and a happy staff (just give them more say in what they do rather than dictating from on high. An hour a week of 'creative time' might even do it).

Functioning forums (prioritise getting new mods and keeping the old mods happy plz - they are volunteers who are already doing a lot of your work for you, so giving them some staff help is a good idea anyway).

You earn respect by listening to the users. This is what the users want. Keep your gadgets if you must, prioritise your battle system if you must, but remember that the so-called 'free' content HELPS YOU by keeping users happy. Happy users buy more. Happy users get their friends to join. Happy users don't scare off new users by bitching all the time.

[iType]

I think the dream of gaia being anything like it once was is impossible. Gaia is growing at to big of a community to have such a chooshy feel about it. I mean as gaia grows it's unavoidable that they should come apart of corporate America. It's just one of those things that happens. But I do think there are ways of keeping some of the feel. Maybe even still having the same feeling just in a different way.

I think instead of making an enemy of the corporate type it is better to think of them people we need to embrace; but only after they get what out community is about. To see them as the enemy only means we aren't going to take the time to make them understand what we want but instead and try forcing them to know. And forcing them to know something is never going to help.

As corporate types they aren't going to see gaia for what it is but instead something to make money. Which all in all isn't the worst way to see it. We need them to make money so that we can have features we want. I mean Gaia does need those types to make money. I don't care what anyone says but gaia would not be able to sustain it's self forever on MCs ; not if they want to expand and make more money. What would be important is to tell these corporate people what we would rather see. Instead of just saying we hate MTV we need to explain why and also offer other suggestions. I mean there could be another bigger corporation that we would not mind a partnership with. A gaming company or even a channel like cartoon network I think would be beneficial. We need to stress that we want sponsors that deal with what gaia as a whole is interested.

What we need to show the corporate people is also that this user base is going to be beneficial for gaia. I know that it has been mentioned that gaia will loose members by were going but they have the potential to gain. By having deals with MTV they can attract those people. Who while they would probably only be temporary members they are more then willing to spend money to look good. So it can be possible that they would be more willing to support gaia with their money. Also I find that people who are really into the MTV culture don't have to try too hard to get Mommy and daddy to shell out the cash. And many anime fans would rather download then support their fandom so corporate buffs aren't going to see them as gold mines. But we have to show them that anime fans and the like are more then willing to spend their money on something they enjoy. Show them that we are indeed valued costumers who are more then willing to shell out the cash.

I think also we need to start taking stalk as Gaia as a whole not the GCD. If we know people who roam other broads try to collect what they think. What does the ED think of this? The GD? The RP boards? The writing forum? To figure out what other people are thinking puts us in a better possession then the corporate people. Because they can argue that maybe other forums like things like MTV and the like so we need to be able to prove them wrong.

I think some great things to do would be to write letters directly addressed to Craig Shermen (is that his name?) the CEO of gaia. As chessy as it sounds I think this would be one of the most attention grabbing. He might not even read them but to get a flood of letters and e-mails demanding change would get his attention. We do have to stop blaming Lanzer and blame Craig instead. But we can't be cranky about it. We need to be what Craig would understand: professional. We need to see this situation through a corporate eyes to make them understand. Because if we can talk about it on their level then we can make them see.

We need to tell them that what Gaia is about. That we need plot lines and even tell them them how this could be beneficial. I mean if they update the manga more they could serialize it and put it in stores! We get our plot update and they get a chance to make money. Events make for happy people and happy people spend more. We need to tell them that keeping us more in the know will not only make us more comfortable but also keep us here. They need to be a corporation but still have the feel of a small business. Make us see that the devs haven't become people who work for a company. But people who work for a community that we care about. There needs to be a bridge between Gaia and the users. We can still be a corporation we just have to be be different.

Well wasn't that just a wall of text. But basically corporate people aren't are enemies they're just from a different world that doesn't understand us. So let's make them understand. I might actually do the the whole letter to Craig Shermen thing. Maybe if enough people do it he'll wake up.

[Kaenai]

[ Admiral Suzie ]

Kaenai

[ Admiral Suzie ]

I was nearly done reading Arrowchan's M-M-M-MONSTER POST on page 3 when I realized something.

No one respects this website. At least not anymore.
Yes, duh, people are mean on teh internets lol but I've been around here long enough to know that the level of complaining and bitchiness that is reflected, at least in the GCD, is new. When I started to post in this forum around 2005 or 2006 it wasn't like this at all. We were all so busy enjoying ourselves, coming up with new ideas for the plots, for items and for every damn thing this site does that if something went wrong only newer users or trolls were the ones complaining.

Now I dunno exactly when it started up, and I don't know exactly how it ties into the changes Gaia has gone through but if anyone is going to start behaving themselves and being polite as they were and as they should be then I think Gaia needs to make the first step instead of us. We all know what happens when someone makes a thread to discuss/whine/b***h or rant about how rude we are. There is just no way we can convince the forum to be more constructive instead of complaining all the time.

I think that it would be more beneficial if we had an announcement or something from Lanzer (because we all see him as the head of Gaia, even if it's not the case anymore) that mentioned the problems Gaia is going through, apologizes for any heartbreak that it caused and asks us for a second chance. Or something. Something that shows humility and sincerity and gives us all hope for the future of Gaia.
If Gaia could earn more respect from its users I think that would be a huge step in the right direction to fix this site, to make it less corporate and more friendly and fun and everything it was when I joined 4 years ago. We would be so much more able to provide the necessary feedback to bring this website back to what it once was.

Honestly I feel a bit embarrassed to still post here, even though I still love the site too much to leave. I don't like to tell my friends I use Gaia, because I know that Gaia no longer as enjoyable as it was and should be.

I have never agreed more with anything any user has said. I landed here around the same time you did, and it wasn't like this, no matter who may say it is. Sure, there was complaining, and some people whined, but there was always a level of civility to everything. That's gone. There was also a certain amount of camaraderie that isn't here anymore.

I still love Gaia. I'm not saying that I don't, or that I'm leaving. But some things are too large to ignore or put aside.

I don't think anything that Gaia does at this point is going to work unless they get users to respect the site like they used to.

And therein lies the trouble. I think that is not realistic, at least, not until the people in those offices start having some kind of communication with us. I know they feel that it's an office, and why should the customers know what goes on in an office, but they're not performing your standard customer service in this instance. People who come here, who have always come here - who love it here - are making an investment, and not just a financial one, a personal one as well. It's hard to have respect for something or someone you've invested in, and is showing no return on it. I understand that's probably what they're thinking too, but that can't be blamed on Gaia, that can only be blamed on the corporate officers' lack of understanding of what really drives Gaia, and that is, and has always been the users. Losing contact with the creators of the site has bred dissent and disrespect, and that needs to be addressed.

[MrsrachaelSnape]

Well, we need to take more action then just talk. Maybe post in SF/petitions have it on the top forums and some write letters to the CEO or someone else who made the changes.

[Bellecat]

MrsrachaelSnape

Well, we need to take more action then just talk. Maybe post in SF/petitions have it on the top forums and some write letters to the CEO or someone else who made the changes.

Are you allowed to hire bumpers for threads in the SF?
'cause that would be good. xD
/lurker

.... this thread has such good long posts, it reminds me of 05 biggrin
(Too bad I can't figure out how to write long posts. I've always failed at that)

[Bunai]

usually when i see Users "Gaia isnt listen to us" it usually has to do with items. which is just trivial.

and when they do listen to users about items. they complain.
you can thank Petition Forum for that.


i can understand Users wanting to be listened to. when it comes to the development of the site.

yet it usually comes down to "i cant buy this item, therefore you suck"
"you force us to buy things"

which is stupid. because no one can force you to buy something you dont want. not unless they have a gun to your head or threatening your family.

[Arrowchan]

MrsrachaelSnape

Well, we need to take more action then just talk. Maybe post in SF/petitions have it on the top forums and some write letters to the CEO or someone else who made the changes.

Talking is part one of action. First we need to crystallise exactly what we want, think about how it could be accomplished, and write it up in a way that the corporate types at Gaia will understand. Part two of action is making sure they hear what we have to say and respond accordingly.

So - what do we want?

How can it be done?

Can what we want fit into what Mr. Sherman wants?

Is it really for Gaia's greater good, both financially and otherwise?

What is the best way to communicate this to the people who make the decisions?

If and when we can answer all those questions, then it's action time.

[MrsrachaelSnape]

Bellecat

MrsrachaelSnape

Well, we need to take more action then just talk. Maybe post in SF/petitions have it on the top forums and some write letters to the CEO or someone else who made the changes.

Are you allowed to hire bumpers for threads in the SF?
'cause that would be good. xD
/lurker

.... this thread has such good long posts, it reminds me of 05 biggrin
(Too bad I can't figure out how to write long posts. I've always failed at that)

I don't know but I know in petitions you can bump we can have a petition about the idea to have thing back the way we like it and have it on the top forums that way they know what we want .

[AlexDitto]

This thread is not about sponsorships, or ads, or cash shop items. It's about attitude, and the fact that Gaia's attitude is changing:
it's attitute toward its users (seeing them as wallets to be picked);
it's attitude toward its devs (seeing them as code monkeys to be whipped and kept under corporate control);
it's attitude toward its vocal community (seeing it as something to be silenced and appeased);
it's atittude toward its sponsors (seeing them as the most important part of Gaia's future);
it's attitude toward its mods (seeing them as a liability to be kept under tight control).

I definitely agree with Arrowchan's assessment. It's not what Gaia needs to survive; it's what Gaia needs to prosper.

[MrsrachaelSnape]

Have you guys read this-http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/site-feedback/a-letter-to-mr-sherman-please-allow-more-creative-freedom/t.39438985/

[Keiji Arashi]

Allow me to quote myself from the Site Feedback thread.

Kuei Keiji

Gaia... started out as a hobby. It's users saw it as a hobby.

Its userbase developed into a community of hobby lovers.

The staff had fun and saw it as a hobby.

Gaia grew.

Gaia was an even more complex hobby... an advanced form of itself.

The core userbase loved it.

Gaia gained interest in the investment world.

Gaia grew even larger.

Gaia gained sponsors.

The userbase felt alienated.

A few years later...

Gaia is no longer a hobby anymore.

Gaia is now "...just some website. ...just some virtual business".

--------------------------------------------------

Honestly, where have we gone? The Core userbase loved our NPC's. Loved our plotlines. As well the new users loved the idea of Gaia when they joined. It was something for them to do. To spend their extra time on.

But why now, are we fighting so hard against choices? Why are we so upset that we no longer get our event and plot updates? Our promised quest system?

Sure, sure. Battle System requires a ******** of work. But look at all the time probably spent on MTV Hollywood. Look at all the time building custom profiles for sponsor NPC's. Custom movie theatres for Sponsor Vids. Sponsor Items, Sponsor avatar bases, etc...

Look at all the time worrying about how to make the most money with MC's. Now we have these fantastical 40-pose MC's whereas... in 2003/2004... our MC's were simple and elegant. They were much sought after. Not too much time was put into making 50 equipable items from one simple idea...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gaia has gotten away from its roots. And I'm terrified where we might head. As a white-list, beta testing, 04 account, ad clicking, economy busting elitist on Gaia... I feel that users like me are going to end up forfeiting and protesting against the ways of corporate sharks.

This is Gaia.

We are a Hobby. A Community.

We are not Myspace. We are not How You Make Your Living. We are not Trend-Following-MTV-Drones.

We are Gaia.

Learn from us.

[Arrowchan]

AlexDitto

We wouldn't get bored of Gaia if they would expand and embellish the things they already have. People are bored of fishing because we haven't had any new fishing items in years. People get bored of towns because the bugs are the same, the flowers the same, and there's no room for new houses. People will undoubtedly get bored of pinball once everyone has a stuffed armadillo, but instead of creating new boards and new items for us to play on, they'll move on to the next crazy project.

Quoted for absolute truth. Gaia needs to stop getting distracted by shiny objects all the time and realise that their current projects are worthy of attention too, and as a bonus, don't need to be built from scratch. Towns, fishing, houses, tattoos...once it's up, it just doesn't EVOLVE. People would flock to towns if it only got more updates, but as it is it just stagnates. This is a continuing cycle and of course it results in people who love that feature getting disenfranchised.

If you build it, you need to maintain it or it loses its relevance. I hope that when Battle is done Gaia pays more attention to this problem.

[AlexDitto]

Arrowchan

AlexDitto

We wouldn't get bored of Gaia if they would expand and embellish the things they already have. People are bored of fishing because we haven't had any new fishing items in years. People get bored of towns because the bugs are the same, the flowers the same, and there's no room for new houses. People will undoubtedly get bored of pinball once everyone has a stuffed armadillo, but instead of creating new boards and new items for us to play on, they'll move on to the next crazy project.

Quoted for absolute truth. Gaia needs to stop getting distracted by shiny objects all the time and realise that their current projects are worthy of attention too, and as a bonus, don't need to be built from scratch. Towns, fishing, houses, tattoos...once it's up, it just doesn't EVOLVE. People would flock to towns if it only got more updates, but as it is it just stagnates. This is a continuing cycle and of course it results in people who love that feature getting disenfranchised.

If you build it, you need to maintain it or it loses its relevance. I hope that when Battle is done Gaia pays more attention to this problem.

Definitely. Most of the stuff Gaia puts out these days seems to be prototypes. It's as if the devs work on a prototype with the intention on spending more time on a final build, but the prototype gets sent off to testing and eventually gets released, never to be actually finished or fully fleshed out.

And then the devs that worked on that feature get appointed to other features, never to work on that project again. It's terrible. I can imagine it causes a lot of stress, because constantly churning out new projects takes a huge amount of effort by the same people, over and over again.

The website has been in Beta for five years now. What happens when Battle is released? Battle being released doesn't mean everything will magically fix itself, but I'm guessing that as soon as it's done it, too, will be put on the back burner, and sponsorships will be the name of the game. Sponsor quests, sponsor games, sponsor features and surveys and new ways to advertise. It's not the sponsorships themselves that are bad: it's the fact that they're not integrated correctly, not balanced against truly useful features or integrated into the community right, and by failing to do that, you're actually reducing your marketing strength.

[Cid High-Wind]

Arrowchan

AlexDitto

We wouldn't get bored of Gaia if they would expand and embellish the things they already have. People are bored of fishing because we haven't had any new fishing items in years. People get bored of towns because the bugs are the same, the flowers the same, and there's no room for new houses. People will undoubtedly get bored of pinball once everyone has a stuffed armadillo, but instead of creating new boards and new items for us to play on, they'll move on to the next crazy project.

Quoted for absolute truth. Gaia needs to stop getting distracted by shiny objects all the time and realise that their current projects are worthy of attention too, and as a bonus, don't need to be built from scratch. Towns, fishing, houses, tattoos...once it's up, it just doesn't EVOLVE. People would flock to towns if it only got more updates, but as it is it just stagnates. This is a continuing cycle and of course it results in people who love that feature getting disenfranchised.

If you build it, you need to maintain it or it loses its relevance. I hope that when Battle is done Gaia pays more attention to this problem.

Not only are they trying to expand greatly in trying to provide more content, they're also forgetting to fix problems we already have.

More stuff means they need more money. They should stop for a few moments and stop trying to expand, take care of what you got. This post would be longer, but I have to go. D:

[peekadora]

There is one sign that Gaia can make that would be unmistakable, that would advance dramatically the cause of profits and expanded user base. CEO Craig Sherman, if you seek profit, if you seek prosperity for Gaia Online and your Board of Directors, if you seek future cash inflows: Listen to your users! Mr. Sherman, talk to users!
Mr. Sherman, tear down this wall!
(Apologies to Reagan.)