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Evelit's avatar

Smitten Kitten

Alright so thanks for coming! biggrin I didn't have much hope that anyone would click this topic, but I do have a legitimate question about Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, as in the second rendition of the anime/show. I'm not going to debate about which one is better, but I do believe that the failed human transmutation result was clearer in the first version. In Brotherhood, in your opinions, what happens when Ed and Al fail to bring back their dead mother, Trisha? I know that Al loses his body and Ed sacrifices a leg and also an arm to attach Als' body to the suit of armor, but when Ed returns to Resembool (in episode 20 I believe?) what does he dig up? I know that the first homunculus, 'Father' was made using Hohenheim's blood back in the days' of Xerxes, so why is the thing Ed and Al transmuted (and Izumi's baby too) male with black hair? I just wonder if there's a connection between it and the other Homunculi Father created (ex they all have black hair and were mostly male). I don't understand why it had a male pelvic bone/femur and black hair... I'm not sure if my question is clear, but I would love to hear some of your opinions because this question has been haunting me since I watched that episode! xp

P.s. Sorry my post is lacking in aesthetics sad
You know, I was kind of wondering the same thing myself. I was like: in the original, Sloth was their mother...so maybe the black-haired homunculus was also a version of Sloth too? That is just my theory. I mean, they never did clarify or anything and it's not like you knew which ones were created first or anything. It kind of did look like Sloth...sort of. Maybe. It could just be me trying to push it into being that homunculus, haha.
In a way, I almost wanted Izumi's baby to be Pride...though there was no way that was possible since he was the first one made and that could have been centuries. I was just like 'he's short, the baby is small...' Haha.
I will agree though that the original Anime connected those dots better than in Brotherhood.
lXl PoopCat lXl 's avatar

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I think for brotherhood he dug up a piece of the homunculus hair. (they buried the dead failed transmutation of there mother)
Evelit's avatar

Smitten Kitten

Kookygirl8907
You know, I was kind of wondering the same thing myself. I was like: in the original, Sloth was their mother...so maybe the black-haired homunculus was also a version of Sloth too? That is just my theory. I mean, they never did clarify or anything and it's not like you knew which ones were created first or anything. It kind of did look like Sloth...sort of. Maybe. It could just be me trying to push it into being that homunculus, haha.
In a way, I almost wanted Izumi's baby to be Pride...though there was no way that was possible since he was the first one made and that could have been centuries. I was just like 'he's short, the baby is small...' Haha.
I will agree though that the original Anime connected those dots better than in Brotherhood.

Ohh so what you're thinking is that every time a person fails human transmutation they bring back a homunculus of the seven deadly sins? so it kind of like an unintentional, failed version of what Father does? That's really interesting! Thank so much for responding smile Wouldn't it have been awesome if Ed had accidentally created a homunculi to command? i wonder how that would've change the plot, surprised
Evelit's avatar

Smitten Kitten

xXxToxic-FlamexXx
I think for brotherhood he dug up a piece of the homunculus hair. (they buried the dead failed transmutation of there mother)

So you think that even in the new FMA, failed human transmutation results in a homunculus? That's what i think too, i just wish there'd been a bit more info, like how Al actually gets put inside the thing they create, but his soul doesn't bond, what's the deal with that!?! thanks for responding! biggrin
Svleir's avatar

Brainy Soldier

Hmm, that part in the anime always threw me off. First, in order for a homunculus to be created, they need a Philosopher's stone as their core. At the time Ed and Al performed the transmutation, they did not posses the stone and did not use anything to offer for equivalent exchange, so their own body parts were taken from them. Therefore, I do not believe what they created was a homunculus.

Do you remember that scene in Brotherhood where Al regains some of his memories and remembers for a split second he was the soul inside the transmuted body? This shows us that Al's soul was able to transfer from one place to another, explaining the theory Ed was going by when he used the transmutation circle to get out of Gluttony's belly. It was proven that this specific circle was not used for bringing the dead back to life at all, but for "teleporting" through the Gate of Truth. To answer your question, I think the body they made was simply a humanoid creature made from the bowl of ingredients, poorly constructed and unfit to actually "live". It's kind of like using a screwdriver to hammer down a nail. It's not supposed to be used that way and in turn, it won't get the job done. I hope this answers your question!
Evelit's avatar

Smitten Kitten

Everlasting Lust
Hmm, that part in the anime always threw me off. First, in order for a homunculus to be created, they need a Philosopher's stone as their core. At the time Ed and Al performed the transmutation, they did not posses the stone and did not use anything to offer for equivalent exchange, so their own body parts were taken from them. Therefore, I do not believe what they created was a homunculus.

Do you remember that scene in Brotherhood where Al regains some of his memories and remembers for a split second he was the soul inside the transmuted body? This shows us that Al's soul was able to transfer from one place to another, explaining the theory Ed was going by when he used the transmutation circle to get out of Gluttony's belly. It was proven that this specific circle was not used for bringing the dead back to life at all, but for "teleporting" through the Gate of Truth. To answer your question, I think the body they made was simply a humanoid creature made from the bowl of ingredients, poorly constructed and unfit to actually "live". It's kind of like using a screwdriver to hammer down a nail. It's not supposed to be used that way and in turn, it won't get the job done. I hope this answers your question!

Awesome! That makes total sense! i wonder why Al didn't get turned into a philosopher stone when he lost his body (as human lives can be turned into energy/crystalized life force whenever they're used for human transmutation), that would have been seriously twisted. And yeah i do remember, i guess i just never connected ALLL those dots, and i've seen the anime like 10 times, aha that's embarassing sweatdrop And it certainly helped me understand a lot better smile Thank you!
Everlasting Lust
Hmm, that part in the anime always threw me off. First, in order for a homunculus to be created, they need a Philosopher's stone as their core. At the time Ed and Al performed the transmutation, they did not posses the stone and did not use anything to offer for equivalent exchange, so their own body parts were taken from them. Therefore, I do not believe what they created was a homunculus.

Do you remember that scene in Brotherhood where Al regains some of his memories and remembers for a split second he was the soul inside the transmuted body? This shows us that Al's soul was able to transfer from one place to another, explaining the theory Ed was going by when he used the transmutation circle to get out of Gluttony's belly. It was proven that this specific circle was not used for bringing the dead back to life at all, but for "teleporting" through the Gate of Truth. To answer your question, I think the body they made was simply a humanoid creature made from the bowl of ingredients, poorly constructed and unfit to actually "live". It's kind of like using a screwdriver to hammer down a nail. It's not supposed to be used that way and in turn, it won't get the job done. I hope this answers your question!


That's it, pretty much. As for what Ed digs up in episode 20, it is the corpse of that transmute that was created from the bowl of ingredients. Pinako buried it, which is why Ed asks for her help to find it when he wants to prove to himself whether it's possible that it could've been Trisha or not. When it is unearthed, at first the hair color ("This is black!" wink is an indication, but Pinako carefully measures everything, deciding that the femur is too long for Trisha, and the pelvis is male, so it isn't a female corpse either. In this version, if someone tries to bring back the dead, the best they can get is something that looks human but can't live.

As for why Ed can bring Al back, that's because Ed and Al are connected, body, mind, and soul. Not obviously, as though Ed could read Al's mind or so on, but the bond is molecular, in a way.
Evelit's avatar

Smitten Kitten

Drummer_kidder
Everlasting Lust
Hmm, that part in the anime always threw me off. First, in order for a homunculus to be created, they need a Philosopher's stone as their core. At the time Ed and Al performed the transmutation, they did not posses the stone and did not use anything to offer for equivalent exchange, so their own body parts were taken from them. Therefore, I do not believe what they created was a homunculus.

Do you remember that scene in Brotherhood where Al regains some of his memories and remembers for a split second he was the soul inside the transmuted body? This shows us that Al's soul was able to transfer from one place to another, explaining the theory Ed was going by when he used the transmutation circle to get out of Gluttony's belly. It was proven that this specific circle was not used for bringing the dead back to life at all, but for "teleporting" through the Gate of Truth. To answer your question, I think the body they made was simply a humanoid creature made from the bowl of ingredients, poorly constructed and unfit to actually "live". It's kind of like using a screwdriver to hammer down a nail. It's not supposed to be used that way and in turn, it won't get the job done. I hope this answers your question!


That's it, pretty much. As for what Ed digs up in episode 20, it is the corpse of that transmute that was created from the bowl of ingredients. Pinako buried it, which is why Ed asks for her help to find it when he wants to prove to himself whether it's possible that it could've been Trisha or not. When it is unearthed, at first the hair color ("This is black!" wink is an indication, but Pinako carefully measures everything, deciding that the femur is too long for Trisha, and the pelvis is male, so it isn't a female corpse either. In this version, if someone tries to bring back the dead, the best they can get is something that looks human but can't live.

As for why Ed can bring Al back, that's because Ed and Al are connected, body, mind, and soul. Not obviously, as though Ed could read Al's mind or so on, but the bond is molecular, in a way.

Oh okay, so kind of like that human(ish) body Roy made when he was faking Maria Ross' death, except Roy had no intention of making it alive and thus didn't open the portal. Thanks for responding! It makes more sense now, i just kept trying to wrap my head around both of the ideas from the two FMA versions. I think i liked the first ones' human transmutation plot better, it was more psychological. whee
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fullmetal alchemist the first on expains everything in brotherhood like about barry the chopper wrath izums baby was not in fullmetal alchemist brotherhood because "Further" was wrath i think he had black her because he was izumi child and envy was not a girl of aboy so he/she doesn't count and the buried dead failed transmutation of there mother which al was in i think it tured black because they could of foud another body maybe it was wrath.
Evelit
Alright so thanks for coming! biggrin I didn't have much hope that anyone would click this topic, but I do have a legitimate question about Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, as in the second rendition of the anime/show. I'm not going to debate about which one is better, but I do believe that the failed human transmutation result was clearer in the first version. In Brotherhood, in your opinions, what happens when Ed and Al fail to bring back their dead mother, Trisha? I know that Al loses his body and Ed sacrifices a leg and also an arm to attach Als' body to the suit of armor, but when Ed returns to Resembool (in episode 20 I believe?) what does he dig up? I know that the first homunculus, 'Father' was made using Hohenheim's blood back in the days' of Xerxes, so why is the thing Ed and Al transmuted (and Izumi's baby too) male with black hair? I just wonder if there's a connection between it and the other Homunculi Father created (ex they all have black hair and were mostly male). I don't understand why it had a male pelvic bone/femur and black hair... I'm not sure if my question is clear, but I would love to hear some of your opinions because this question has been haunting me since I watched that episode! xp

P.s. Sorry my post is lacking in aesthetics sad

User ImageUser ImageUser Image


________________________________________


Actually, this was all explained in Brotherhood/the manga.
Human transmutation is impossible, and as punishment for trying to play God, the Gate takes something away from you, with a specific meaning behind the loss. ( Edward lost a leg to stand on, Alphonse was no longer able to feel, Izumi couldn't bear children, etc. )
Ed and Al's transmutation failed, and Edward lost his leg. Trisha wasn't brought back at all, and the rotten corpse that was created was actually Alphonse. When Edward and Pinako dug up the corpse in Risembool, she confirmed that it wasn't the body of a woman, but of a male. It was Alphonse that had been reduced to a grotesque form that was so unstable. But since he wasn't entirely gone, Edward was able to bring back his soul by sacrificing his arm.


________________________________________
Evelit's avatar

Smitten Kitten

LingThing
Evelit
Alright so thanks for coming! biggrin I didn't have much hope that anyone would click this topic, but I do have a legitimate question about Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, as in the second rendition of the anime/show. I'm not going to debate about which one is better, but I do believe that the failed human transmutation result was clearer in the first version. In Brotherhood, in your opinions, what happens when Ed and Al fail to bring back their dead mother, Trisha? I know that Al loses his body and Ed sacrifices a leg and also an arm to attach Als' body to the suit of armor, but when Ed returns to Resembool (in episode 20 I believe?) what does he dig up? I know that the first homunculus, 'Father' was made using Hohenheim's blood back in the days' of Xerxes, so why is the thing Ed and Al transmuted (and Izumi's baby too) male with black hair? I just wonder if there's a connection between it and the other Homunculi Father created (ex they all have black hair and were mostly male). I don't understand why it had a male pelvic bone/femur and black hair... I'm not sure if my question is clear, but I would love to hear some of your opinions because this question has been haunting me since I watched that episode! xp

P.s. Sorry my post is lacking in aesthetics sad

User ImageUser ImageUser Image


________________________________________


Actually, this was all explained in Brotherhood/the manga.
Human transmutation is impossible, and as punishment for trying to play God, the Gate takes something away from you, with a specific meaning behind the loss. ( Edward lost a leg to stand on, Alphonse was no longer able to feel, Izumi couldn't bear children, etc. )
Ed and Al's transmutation failed, and Edward lost his leg. Trisha wasn't brought back at all, and the rotten corpse that was created was actually Alphonse. When Edward and Pinako dug up the corpse in Risembool, she confirmed that it wasn't the body of a woman, but of a male. It was Alphonse that had been reduced to a grotesque form that was so unstable. But since he wasn't entirely gone, Edward was able to bring back his soul by sacrificing his arm.


________________________________________

Peeerfect! Thank you ! smile I'd wondered about the corpse-thing being male, and i suspected it had something to do with Alphonse but the black hair threw me off. I think i was just reading into the little details too much.
You people are so observant and so smart. : D I was reading over all of this and thinking...man, they really got it. Still, the explanations were great.
Svleir's avatar

Brainy Soldier

Evelit
Everlasting Lust
Hmm, that part in the anime always threw me off. First, in order for a homunculus to be created, they need a Philosopher's stone as their core. At the time Ed and Al performed the transmutation, they did not posses the stone and did not use anything to offer for equivalent exchange, so their own body parts were taken from them. Therefore, I do not believe what they created was a homunculus.

Do you remember that scene in Brotherhood where Al regains some of his memories and remembers for a split second he was the soul inside the transmuted body? This shows us that Al's soul was able to transfer from one place to another, explaining the theory Ed was going by when he used the transmutation circle to get out of Gluttony's belly. It was proven that this specific circle was not used for bringing the dead back to life at all, but for "teleporting" through the Gate of Truth. To answer your question, I think the body they made was simply a humanoid creature made from the bowl of ingredients, poorly constructed and unfit to actually "live". It's kind of like using a screwdriver to hammer down a nail. It's not supposed to be used that way and in turn, it won't get the job done. I hope this answers your question!

Awesome! That makes total sense! i wonder why Al didn't get turned into a philosopher stone when he lost his body (as human lives can be turned into energy/crystalized life force whenever they're used for human transmutation), that would have been seriously twisted. And yeah i do remember, i guess i just never connected ALLL those dots, and i've seen the anime like 10 times, aha that's embarassing sweatdrop And it certainly helped me understand a lot better smile Thank you!

Haha no problem! whee
gnarsty's avatar

Lonely Smoker

Okay, here's what I think.

I always thought everybody had a time limit in the Doorway of Darkness. So when their time ran out, whomever decided to commit the sin and failed, the body came back as the body being saved in The Doorway. So basically in Ed & Al's case, their mothers body remains was "thrown away", giving a prisoner of the Truth another chance at life, I suppose.

This isn't a well thought out hypothesis, but that's my input.

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