The history of Friday the thirteenth and why it seems bad.

[Enishi_Sparda]

David2074

Enishi_Sparda

Friday the Thirteenth is seen as an unlucky day because way back in the crusades there was a mass burning of the Templars due to them being seen as Heritics by other people. They were hunted down, beaten and burned, said to be devil worshipers and has always been seen as unlucky from that day forth....

References please unless you are just making that up because:
"There were seven Crusades, with the first beginning in 1095 and the last ending in 1291"

but...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_the_13th
"According to folklorists, there is no written evidence for a "Friday the 13th" superstition before the 19th century. The earliest known documented reference in English occurs in Henry Sutherland Edwards' 1869 biography of Gioachino Rossini, who died on a Friday 13th.

He [Rossini] was surrounded to the last by admiring friends; and if it be true that, like so many Italians, he regarded Fridays as an unlucky day and thirteen as an unlucky number, it is remarkable that one Friday 13th of November he died."

Aint got no refference. I'm not making it up either.. That is one of the many reasons why Friday the thirteenth is unlucky.. It was a long time ago that I ended up researching it. I can't tell you anything besides that if you are looking to make me look like a fool. And if you are. I'm sure many would see you as suceeing.

[Atalina The Fallen Angel]

Dragon Scorch 08

Atalina The Fallen Angel

starkaat

Some of our coolest traditions/customs come from terrible, terrible things.
The first example that comes to mind is "Ring Around the Rosie" being about the bubonic plague. emotion_awesome

"Ring-a-ring-a-roses,
A pocket full of posies;
Ashes! Ashes!
We all fall down."

Such a dark song

the ring around the roses represented the symptomes of the plague. victims had big welts with red discoloration to them. the pocket full of posies were to hide the smell of the decomposing bodies. and the ashed were because the bodies of the victims had to be burned as not to contaminate the water supply.
have you ever listened to the words of rockaby baby. that song is messed up. who puts a baby in a tree???

Haha I know the meaning of the ring around the rosie song. Rockaby Baby always creeped me out

[David2074]

Enishi_Sparda

David2074

Enishi_Sparda

Friday the Thirteenth is seen as an unlucky day because way back in the crusades there was a mass burning of the Templars due to them being seen as Heritics by other people. They were hunted down, beaten and burned, said to be devil worshipers and has always been seen as unlucky from that day forth....

References please unless you are just making that up because:
"There were seven Crusades, with the first beginning in 1095 and the last ending in 1291"

but...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_the_13th
"According to folklorists, there is no written evidence for a "Friday the 13th" superstition before the 19th century. The earliest known documented reference in English occurs in Henry Sutherland Edwards' 1869 biography of Gioachino Rossini, who died on a Friday 13th.

He [Rossini] was surrounded to the last by admiring friends; and if it be true that, like so many Italians, he regarded Fridays as an unlucky day and thirteen as an unlucky number, it is remarkable that one Friday 13th of November he died."

Aint got no refference. I'm not making it up either.. That is one of the many reasons why Friday the thirteenth is unlucky.. It was a long time ago that I ended up researching it. I can't tell you anything besides that if you are looking to make me look like a fool. And if you are. I'm sure many would see you as suceeing.

Touchy much?
I don't know you and have no desire to make you look bad. Due to comments in the Friday the 13th forum I was reading up on the day in Wikipedia and some other places. Then I ran across your thread with statements that seem to contradict what I had just been reading so I asked for your sources. It seems to me that both statements can't be accurate (10th / 11th century vs 19th century) but that does not guarantee the wikipedia info is the right one. So I was curious to read your source to see what it said on the subject. Simple as that.

The reason I said, "unless you made it up" is because quite a few times in the forums I see people doing just that. Don't know you so don't know if you would or wouldn't do that. Often they do it for fun and it is an obvious joke / troll. Other times not so obvious.

(haha - my captcha is "trust me" )

[David2074]

Phantomhive Royal

This 'fact' is actually under speculation
The plague first hit in 1347
But the song wasn't written in print until 1887
People forget songs that were popular three years ago.
How is one to remember a nursery rhyme for five centuries?
Particularly without it being documented
Not to mention there have been different variations that have nothing to do with plague or death at all.

But I do agree with you.
Most fairytales and children's songs have darker origins and meanings.

I don't claim to know the answer to this but I believe there are songs that lasted hundreds of years before being written down. The plague wiped out a huge number of people and if parents believed the 'knowledge' in the song might in any way help their children from contracting the plague should it ever return it may have helped it top the list of songs / rhymes they taught their children. Just food for thought - don't know if it is true. I do know the plague is a well remembered historical event as evidenced by us talking about it.

But it also occurred to me - maybe the song was written many years later as you suggest - but it could still be about the plague. Many songs are written about events in history, this could be one of them, even if no one was singing it during the plague.

Like I said though - I don't claim to know. Just thoughts on what might have been.

[omninulla]

FairyLemons

Enishi_Sparda

Friday the Thirteenth is seen as an unlucky day because way back in the crusades there was a mass burning of the Templars due to them being seen as Heritics by other people. They were hunted down, beaten and burned, said to be devil worshipers and has always been seen as unlucky from that day forth....

And also, in Chinese culture they believe the 13th is an unlucky number. 1 + 3 = 4 (which is pronunced as si, the same as "death" in Chinese)

you are right about them pronouncing 4 like death but the number 14 is the one that they hate as the pronunciation of 1 sounds like certain making 14 certain death. There will frequently not even be a floor 14 to any building or a seat 14 on a plane or in a theater. This mirrors to how we avoid 13 in our buildings and planes in the west. I don't remember what 3 means to the Chinese but I think its relatively good. 8 sounds like prosperity and it is for this reason that you will find many Chinese people living on floor 18 or in house 1118 prosperity drive. At least this is what I heard.

[T w o S h i t s]

wow what a story smile

[omninulla]

Phantomhive Royal

How is one to remember a nursery rhyme for five centuries?
Particularly without it being documented
Not to mention there have been different variations that have nothing to do with plague or death at all.

emotion_facepalm
How hard is it to remember Ring Around the Rosie? Did you need to wright it down?
Five centuries is about 25 generations if you estimate that the age of the parents would be about 20 when beginning to have kids. That may sound daunting to us but back then passing down stories and songs was all that they had. No internet or TV.
The variations are to be expected. Ever play telephone? Imagine playing with 10,000 rings of 25 people each for 500 years. you would end up with some variation too.

[omninulla]

yuzuki_mai

I was told it was because the chruch did something bad like beating up inocent people and acussing them of going against god or something like that

Your signature. She is holding it backwards.

[Phantomhive Royal]

f_a_i_t_h_l_e_s_s

Write it down*
Which again only solidifies what I mentioned.
If there's so much variation, how can we actually be sure the song is specifically referring to the Plague?

David2074

And I did consider your point as well.
But how is one to honestly know?
I didn't come in here to start a frivolous debate.
Only to state that Ring around the Rosie being based on the Bubonic Plague
Is still under speculation to most folklorists.
It makes sense for it to be reference, to me.
But there's still speculation.

But a number of our Nursery Rhymes are supposed testimony to historical events.
And at the very least have dark and grim lyrics that aren't generally taken into consideration when sung.
Idle food for thought is all it is, I suppose.

[Tallyollyopia]

Enishi_Sparda

Friday the Thirteenth is seen as an unlucky day because way back in the crusades there was a mass burning of the Templars due to them being seen as Heritics by other people. They were hunted down, beaten and burned, said to be devil worshipers and has always been seen as unlucky from that day forth....

I heard about that, but I wasn't sure if the person I heard it from was telling me the truth. smile