I don't have anything against happy endings, but the happy endings in fairytales aren't written in the most appealing way. In fairytales, things end "happily ever after"--and leave no room for anything else to happen in the characters' life aside from happy confetti. Something more realistic would be, "Then that problem was solved and [maybe] they got together etc etc and then maybe something else happens to them afterwards, idrc"-- just written differently.. because the way I wrote it's rather pathetic. xD
I love happy endings. You never hear about any real life happy endings. So why would you hate on a fairytale one.
Because they are all the same "they live happily ever after"
There is no climax to be honest
I do not mind happy endings but there are too many
Maybe if the endings were different.
There are plenty of not happy endings. And the climax comes before the ending.
Not to mention. Fairy tales are meant for children mostly. Just like old school nursery rhymes. They are handed down. And who wants to end a story with a sad/angry/ gruesome ending. Its kind of like "whats the point".
Old childrens stories didn't "have" happy endings necessarily. They ended, I mean--look at Cinderella. Her sisters had their eyes poked out by crows, after one sister's toe got cut off from trying to force the shoe on.
Little mermaid originally, Ariel turned to sea foam.
Original Red Riding Hood--she died because she didn't listen to her mother (I'm pretty sure on this one, but I don't have the source with me, been looking. It's a chinese story--go fig.)
"TODAY" Childrens stories have happy endings. They didn't used to always be that way--but we coddle children now, and let them think everything's going to be alright. Sometimes it's okay. But sometimes the meaning is lost.
I love happy endings. You never hear about any real life happy endings. So why would you hate on a fairytale one.
Because they are all the same "they live happily ever after"
There is no climax to be honest
I do not mind happy endings but there are too many
Maybe if the endings were different.
There are plenty of not happy endings. And the climax comes before the ending.
Not to mention. Fairy tales are meant for children mostly. Just like old school nursery rhymes. They are handed down. And who wants to end a story with a sad/angry/ gruesome ending. Its kind of like "whats the point".
Old childrens stories didn't "have" happy endings necessarily. They ended, I mean--look at Cinderella. Her sisters had their eyes poked out by crows, after one sister's toe got cut off from trying to force the shoe on.
Little mermaid originally, Ariel turned to sea foam.
Original Red Riding Hood--she died because she didn't listen to her mother (I'm pretty sure on this one, but I don't have the source with me, been looking. It's a chinese story--go fig.)
"TODAY" Childrens stories have happy endings. They didn't used to always be that way--but we coddle children now, and let them think everything's going to be alright. Sometimes it's okay. But sometimes the meaning is lost.
That depends on what you consider the "original" story. Also, it depends on whose version it is. Just like the Bible, its hard to say what actually occurred when we really don't know where, or who rather, the stories came from. Regardless, you make a valid point. We do coddle our children because the world has changed since these tales have been around. We know more about psychology and have come up with various ideas on changing others' ideas to impress the moral values of each story onto our children in to a way they can comprehend them throughout various stages in their lives. This has greatly affected the storyline & its impact or its original purpose. Yet, most people only know of disney versions or nursery rhyme versions of each tale. They are most popular for a reason though.
When everyday life is daunting and sometimes truly unbearable for some, happy endings provide an outlet for thinking in a more positive way. That makes a different impact which I value much more than just a good story. It is personal preference anyways & no matter what type of ending a story has, it will be interpreted in many different ways. Its up to the audience to decide how a story will affect them individually. If you don't like happy endings, then you shouldn't be reading that version of the tale or watching. People who call themselves really are just pessimists trying to appear more rational. It just says more about you as an individual and the way you perceive things. Optimists, see the same rational idea, with a better outcome. Changing the way you think, can change your life. Personally, a happy ending leaves me thinking with a positive frame of mind, which leaves me feeling better about pondering various points. I truly believe a happy ending is what should happen in real life & it can. These stories make it seem even more possible.
I love happy endings. You never hear about any real life happy endings. So why would you hate on a fairytale one.
Because they are all the same "they live happily ever after"
There is no climax to be honest
I do not mind happy endings but there are too many
Maybe if the endings were different.
There are plenty of not happy endings. And the climax comes before the ending.
Not to mention. Fairy tales are meant for children mostly. Just like old school nursery rhymes. They are handed down. And who wants to end a story with a sad/angry/ gruesome ending. Its kind of like "whats the point".
Old childrens stories didn't "have" happy endings necessarily. They ended, I mean--look at Cinderella. Her sisters had their eyes poked out by crows, after one sister's toe got cut off from trying to force the shoe on.
Little mermaid originally, Ariel turned to sea foam.
Original Red Riding Hood--she died because she didn't listen to her mother (I'm pretty sure on this one, but I don't have the source with me, been looking. It's a chinese story--go fig.)
"TODAY" Childrens stories have happy endings. They didn't used to always be that way--but we coddle children now, and let them think everything's going to be alright. Sometimes it's okay. But sometimes the meaning is lost.
That depends on what you consider the "original" story. Also, it depends on whose version it is. Just like the Bible, its hard to say what actually occurred when we really don't know where, or who rather, the stories came from. Regardless, you make a valid point. We do coddle our children because the world has changed since these tales have been around. We know more about psychology and have come up with various ideas on changing others' ideas to impress the moral values of each story onto our children in to a way they can comprehend them throughout various stages in their lives. This has greatly affected the storyline & its impact or its original purpose. Yet, most people only know of disney versions or nursery rhyme versions of each tale. They are most popular for a reason though.
When everyday life is daunting and sometimes truly unbearable for some, happy endings provide an outlet for thinking in a more positive way. That makes a different impact which I value much more than just a good story. It is personal preference anyways & no matter what type of ending a story has, it will be interpreted in many different ways. Its up to the audience to decide how a story will affect them individually. If you don't like happy endings, then you shouldn't be reading that version of the tale or watching. People who call themselves really are just pessimists trying to appear more rational. It just says more about you as an individual and the way you perceive things. Optimists, see the same rational idea, with a better outcome. Changing the way you think, can change your life. Personally, a happy ending leaves me thinking with a positive frame of mind, which leaves me feeling better about pondering various points. I truly believe a happy ending is what should happen in real life & it can. These stories make it seem even more possible.
By happy endings I mean everything is just rainbowshits and confettivomit. IT's nice to have a happy ending, like prince charming finding his princess. But have you seen The Secret World of Arrietty? Or also known as The Borrower's Arrietty (Or Karigurashi no Arrietti if you're japanese).
SPOILER FOR THE MOVIE KINDA
It doesn't end too happily, yet, it still teaches morals in a good way
I love happy endings. You never hear about any real life happy endings. So why would you hate on a fairytale one.
Because they are all the same "they live happily ever after"
There is no climax to be honest
I do not mind happy endings but there are too many
Maybe if the endings were different.
There are plenty of not happy endings. And the climax comes before the ending.
Not to mention. Fairy tales are meant for children mostly. Just like old school nursery rhymes. They are handed down. And who wants to end a story with a sad/angry/ gruesome ending. Its kind of like "whats the point".
Old childrens stories didn't "have" happy endings necessarily. They ended, I mean--look at Cinderella. Her sisters had their eyes poked out by crows, after one sister's toe got cut off from trying to force the shoe on.
Little mermaid originally, Ariel turned to sea foam.
Original Red Riding Hood--she died because she didn't listen to her mother (I'm pretty sure on this one, but I don't have the source with me, been looking. It's a chinese story--go fig.)
"TODAY" Childrens stories have happy endings. They didn't used to always be that way--but we coddle children now, and let them think everything's going to be alright. Sometimes it's okay. But sometimes the meaning is lost.
That depends on what you consider the "original" story. Also, it depends on whose version it is. Just like the Bible, its hard to say what actually occurred when we really don't know where, or who rather, the stories came from. Regardless, you make a valid point. We do coddle our children because the world has changed since these tales have been around. We know more about psychology and have come up with various ideas on changing others' ideas to impress the moral values of each story onto our children in to a way they can comprehend them throughout various stages in their lives. This has greatly affected the storyline & its impact or its original purpose. Yet, most people only know of disney versions or nursery rhyme versions of each tale. They are most popular for a reason though.
When everyday life is daunting and sometimes truly unbearable for some, happy endings provide an outlet for thinking in a more positive way. That makes a different impact which I value much more than just a good story. It is personal preference anyways & no matter what type of ending a story has, it will be interpreted in many different ways. Its up to the audience to decide how a story will affect them individually. If you don't like happy endings, then you shouldn't be reading that version of the tale or watching. People who call themselves really are just pessimists trying to appear more rational. It just says more about you as an individual and the way you perceive things. Optimists, see the same rational idea, with a better outcome. Changing the way you think, can change your life. Personally, a happy ending leaves me thinking with a positive frame of mind, which leaves me feeling better about pondering various points. I truly believe a happy ending is what should happen in real life & it can. These stories make it seem even more possible.
By happy endings I mean everything is just rainbowshits and confettivomit. IT's nice to have a happy ending, like prince charming finding his princess. But have you seen The Secret World of Arrietty? Or also known as The Borrower's Arrietty (Or Karigurashi no Arrietti if you're japanese).
SPOILER FOR THE MOVIE KINDA
It doesn't end too happily, yet, it still teaches morals in a good way
I have not. Thanks for the idea though, really, I may actually watch it. Anyways, I didn't say that those types of stories don't occur. We call them tragedies. :] & they are awesome to let out some schadenfreude. My point is exactly like you said, "IT's nice to have a happy ending, like prince charming find his princess."
There are plenty of not happy endings. And the climax comes before the ending.
Not to mention. Fairy tales are meant for children mostly. Just like old school nursery rhymes. They are handed down. And who wants to end a story with a sad/angry/ gruesome ending. Its kind of like "whats the point".
Old childrens stories didn't "have" happy endings necessarily. They ended, I mean--look at Cinderella. Her sisters had their eyes poked out by crows, after one sister's toe got cut off from trying to force the shoe on.
Little mermaid originally, Ariel turned to sea foam.
Original Red Riding Hood--she died because she didn't listen to her mother (I'm pretty sure on this one, but I don't have the source with me, been looking. It's a chinese story--go fig.)
"TODAY" Childrens stories have happy endings. They didn't used to always be that way--but we coddle children now, and let them think everything's going to be alright. Sometimes it's okay. But sometimes the meaning is lost.
That depends on what you consider the "original" story. Also, it depends on whose version it is. Just like the Bible, its hard to say what actually occurred when we really don't know where, or who rather, the stories came from. Regardless, you make a valid point. We do coddle our children because the world has changed since these tales have been around. We know more about psychology and have come up with various ideas on changing others' ideas to impress the moral values of each story onto our children in to a way they can comprehend them throughout various stages in their lives. This has greatly affected the storyline & its impact or its original purpose. Yet, most people only know of disney versions or nursery rhyme versions of each tale. They are most popular for a reason though.
When everyday life is daunting and sometimes truly unbearable for some, happy endings provide an outlet for thinking in a more positive way. That makes a different impact which I value much more than just a good story. It is personal preference anyways & no matter what type of ending a story has, it will be interpreted in many different ways. Its up to the audience to decide how a story will affect them individually. If you don't like happy endings, then you shouldn't be reading that version of the tale or watching. People who call themselves really are just pessimists trying to appear more rational. It just says more about you as an individual and the way you perceive things. Optimists, see the same rational idea, with a better outcome. Changing the way you think, can change your life. Personally, a happy ending leaves me thinking with a positive frame of mind, which leaves me feeling better about pondering various points. I truly believe a happy ending is what should happen in real life & it can. These stories make it seem even more possible.
By happy endings I mean everything is just rainbowshits and confettivomit. IT's nice to have a happy ending, like prince charming finding his princess. But have you seen The Secret World of Arrietty? Or also known as The Borrower's Arrietty (Or Karigurashi no Arrietti if you're japanese).
SPOILER FOR THE MOVIE KINDA
It doesn't end too happily, yet, it still teaches morals in a good way
I have not. Thanks for the idea though, really, I may actually watch it. Anyways, I didn't say that those types of stories don't occur. We call them tragedies. :] & they are awesome to let out some schadenfreude. My point is exactly like you said, "IT's nice to have a happy ending, like prince charming find his princess."
That's the difference between you and I. I wasn't explaining a tragedy. :/ It can still be a good moralful story, without a happy ending, and not be labeled a tragedy. I dunno, is it really so black-and-white, that if something doesn't end happily it has to be a tragedy? Watch that movie--it's not a tragedy, but it's not a happy ending, though in a way it is the only way the movie could have ended.. but again--tragedy is something that can be good, yeah but I dunno, it's hard to explain. Just because something doesn't have a happy ending, isn't a tragedy--is all I'm saying and from what you say it seems like there is a distinct "Happy ending" or "Tragedy" when somethings things just don't work out. Just because the prince says "Sorry, cinderella, I found someone else" or just becuse Sleeping beauty says "AHHH RAPPE NNOOOOOO I HAVE A HUSBAND but let's stay friends" doesn't make the story any less effective, nor does it make it a tragedy. In the sense that the protagonist doesn't get what (s)he doesn't get what (s)he wants, I suppose, makes it disheartening, but maybe I'm missing the point of what a tragedy is...?
I mean in Aristotles sense it makes some sense. It's a reversal of fortune, but whenever I think tragedy, I immediately think s**t like Hamlet. I mean--that s**t is tragic, and at the same time, it could only end one way. But there's NO happiness what-so-ever in that play. Whereas even if A Goofy Movie ended up with Roxanne and Max not getting together, it would still be a "non-tragic movie" because in the end he strengthened his bond with his father. Goku died a few times in Dragonball Z, that doesn't make it a Tragedy, just because it incorporates death (I'm really going to many different dimensions here aren't I?).
Now something that THRIVES on human suffering, is tragic/tragedy. But yeah--I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, though I understand what you're saying. All I'm saying is that everything doesn't have to be the same. Things are very predictable now--especially in these children's movies. Take for example, Jim Henson's The Dark Crystal--that movie is scary, and isn't necessarily a "tragedy" or a horror, and still ends happily. The movie itself is a "kid's" movie, yet, it is for adults, just as well. It has SERIOUS themes that are hidden in it, that kids won't necessarily get until they're older, or watch it enough times. But what's REALLY in some of these stories now? What's the point for Ariel?
"LOL LOST VOICE FOUND DUDE MADE HIM LOVE ME FOR ME"
... cool story. Is there anything else besides that?
Still a better love story than twilight, though.
What's the point in Little Red Riding hood, now?
"LOL FOUND CREEPY DUDE IN BUSH, TOOK HIS ADVICE AND SAW THE CORPSE OF GRANNY--BUT IT'S FINE, CHOP HIS HEAD OFF AND DIG IN HIS ENTRAILS TO PULL HER OUT IN ONE PIECE."
Coolstory. Still a better love story than Twilight.
Now take "Howl's moving Castle" for example, still a "kid's" movie--by default, yet it has intricate themes woven in it, multiple different morals, and on a deeper level. Essentially what upsets me with today's culture, at least in what I've been seeing, is the dumbing down of practically everything. YES there are happy endings to these movies, which is fine--and that could be the question at hand, here. But essentially, there is a sense of plot failure as a result.
Grave of the Fireflies--can learn from the experience, not that all children need to see this movie at a young age--THIS would be a "tragedy."
Spirited away--"ends" the same way I could see other things ending, not necessarily happy--not necessarily sad. Just how it ended. *rant going too long jesus christ*
Anyway--I think I trailed off topic, and maybe I misinterpretted what you were saying by "tragedy" but I'm trying to make a distinct difference between tragedy--and not.
There are plenty of not happy endings. And the climax comes before the ending.
Not to mention. Fairy tales are meant for children mostly. Just like old school nursery rhymes. They are handed down. And who wants to end a story with a sad/angry/ gruesome ending. Its kind of like "whats the point".
Old childrens stories didn't "have" happy endings necessarily. They ended, I mean--look at Cinderella. Her sisters had their eyes poked out by crows, after one sister's toe got cut off from trying to force the shoe on.
Little mermaid originally, Ariel turned to sea foam.
Original Red Riding Hood--she died because she didn't listen to her mother (I'm pretty sure on this one, but I don't have the source with me, been looking. It's a chinese story--go fig.)
"TODAY" Childrens stories have happy endings. They didn't used to always be that way--but we coddle children now, and let them think everything's going to be alright. Sometimes it's okay. But sometimes the meaning is lost.
That depends on what you consider the "original" story. Also, it depends on whose version it is. Just like the Bible, its hard to say what actually occurred when we really don't know where, or who rather, the stories came from. Regardless, you make a valid point. We do coddle our children because the world has changed since these tales have been around. We know more about psychology and have come up with various ideas on changing others' ideas to impress the moral values of each story onto our children in to a way they can comprehend them throughout various stages in their lives. This has greatly affected the storyline & its impact or its original purpose. Yet, most people only know of disney versions or nursery rhyme versions of each tale. They are most popular for a reason though.
When everyday life is daunting and sometimes truly unbearable for some, happy endings provide an outlet for thinking in a more positive way. That makes a different impact which I value much more than just a good story. It is personal preference anyways & no matter what type of ending a story has, it will be interpreted in many different ways. Its up to the audience to decide how a story will affect them individually. If you don't like happy endings, then you shouldn't be reading that version of the tale or watching. People who call themselves really are just pessimists trying to appear more rational. It just says more about you as an individual and the way you perceive things. Optimists, see the same rational idea, with a better outcome. Changing the way you think, can change your life. Personally, a happy ending leaves me thinking with a positive frame of mind, which leaves me feeling better about pondering various points. I truly believe a happy ending is what should happen in real life & it can. These stories make it seem even more possible.
By happy endings I mean everything is just rainbowshits and confettivomit. IT's nice to have a happy ending, like prince charming finding his princess. But have you seen The Secret World of Arrietty? Or also known as The Borrower's Arrietty (Or Karigurashi no Arrietti if you're japanese).
SPOILER FOR THE MOVIE KINDA
It doesn't end too happily, yet, it still teaches morals in a good way
I have not. Thanks for the idea though, really, I may actually watch it. Anyways, I didn't say that those types of stories don't occur. We call them tragedies. :] & they are awesome to let out some schadenfreude. My point is exactly like you said, "IT's nice to have a happy ending, like prince charming find his princess."
That's the difference between you and I. I wasn't explaining a tragedy. :/ It can still be a good moralful story, without a happy ending, and not be labeled a tragedy. I dunno, is it really so black-and-white, that if something doesn't end happily it has to be a tragedy? Watch that movie--it's not a tragedy, but it's not a happy ending, though in a way it is the only way the movie could have ended.. but again--tragedy is something that can be good, yeah but I dunno, it's hard to explain. Just because something doesn't have a happy ending, isn't a tragedy--is all I'm saying and from what you say it seems like there is a distinct "Happy ending" or "Tragedy" when somethings things just don't work out. Just because the prince says "Sorry, cinderella, I found someone else" or just becuse Sleeping beauty says "AHHH RAPPE NNOOOOOO I HAVE A HUSBAND but let's stay friends" doesn't make the story any less effective, nor does it make it a tragedy. In the sense that the protagonist doesn't get what (s)he doesn't get what (s)he wants, I suppose, makes it disheartening, but maybe I'm missing the point of what a tragedy is...?
I mean in Aristotles sense it makes some sense. It's a reversal of fortune, but whenever I think tragedy, I immediately think s**t like Hamlet. I mean--that s**t is tragic, and at the same time, it could only end one way. But there's NO happiness what-so-ever in that play. Whereas even if A Goofy Movie ended up with Roxanne and Max not getting together, it would still be a "non-tragic movie" because in the end he strengthened his bond with his father. Goku died a few times in Dragonball Z, that doesn't make it a Tragedy, just because it incorporates death (I'm really going to many different dimensions here aren't I?).
Now something that THRIVES on human suffering, is tragic/tragedy. But yeah--I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, though I understand what you're saying. All I'm saying is that everything doesn't have to be the same. Things are very predictable now--especially in these children's movies. Take for example, Jim Henson's The Dark Crystal--that movie is scary, and isn't necessarily a "tragedy" or a horror, and still ends happily. The movie itself is a "kid's" movie, yet, it is for adults, just as well. It has SERIOUS themes that are hidden in it, that kids won't necessarily get until they're older, or watch it enough times. But what's REALLY in some of these stories now? What's the point for Ariel?
"LOL LOST VOICE FOUND DUDE MADE HIM LOVE ME FOR ME"
... cool story. Is there anything else besides that?
Still a better love story than twilight, though.
What's the point in Little Red Riding hood, now?
"LOL FOUND CREEPY DUDE IN BUSH, TOOK HIS ADVICE AND SAW THE CORPSE OF GRANNY--BUT IT'S FINE, CHOP HIS HEAD OFF AND DIG IN HIS ENTRAILS TO PULL HER OUT IN ONE PIECE."
Coolstory. Still a better love story than Twilight.
Now take "Howl's moving Castle" for example, still a "kid's" movie--by default, yet it has intricate themes woven in it, multiple different morals, and on a deeper level. Essentially what upsets me with today's culture, at least in what I've been seeing, is the dumbing down of practically everything. YES there are happy endings to these movies, which is fine--and that could be the question at hand, here. But essentially, there is a sense of plot failure as a result.
Grave of the Fireflies--can learn from the experience, not that all children need to see this movie at a young age--THIS would be a "tragedy."
Spirited away--"ends" the same way I could see other things ending, not necessarily happy--not necessarily sad. Just how it ended. *rant going too long jesus christ*
Anyway--I think I trailed off topic, and maybe I misinterpretted what you were saying by "tragedy" but I'm trying to make a distinct difference between tragedy--and not.
Okay. I agree with you on quite a bit of that. Oh, and you totally have the same idea of tragedy as myself, so you're all good there. I was apparently not being more accurate with my arguments. My fault. Things really are not as black and white. I was using tragedy as an example of a story that doesn't have a happy ending to agree with you about saying stories don't have to have happy endings in order to have a great plot and moral value. I apologize about this.
You said:
Just because the prince says "Sorry, cinderella, I found someone else" or just becuse Sleeping beauty says "AHHH RAPPE NNOOOOOO I HAVE A HUSBAND but let's stay friends" doesn't make the story any less effective, nor does it make it a tragedy."
I also agree to some degree. It does not make it a tragedy nor does it necessarily make it less effective. However, when the Prince and her live happily ever after and Sleeping Beauty wakes up from true love's kiss, you smile and it has, in my opinion, an enjoyable effect. That's why I read stories, I enjoy them. I read/watch what I enjoy. Not to say that everything I enjoy has a happy ending, but I would never say I didn't like them nor could I be sick on them. The effect of a happy ending can be as intoxicating as any other type of ending. I feel that way, perhaps, more so than others though.
The second paragraph I admired your ramblings. Your way of thinking is admirable. To answer your question though, yeah, too many different dimensions. It's chill though.
Starting with the third paragraph response. We are done with that, I think so we are just going to bury the dead house over yonder. :]
Which leaves this:
"It has SERIOUS themes that are hidden in it, that kids won't necessarily get until they're older, or watch it enough times. But what's REALLY in some of these stories now? What's the point for Ariel?
"LOL LOST VOICE FOUND DUDE MADE HIM LOVE ME FOR ME"
... cool story. Is there anything else besides that?
Still a better love story than twilight, though."
Hmm. Two points I want to establish first would be children will not comprehend some things about certain movies and why should they? They really don't have the comprehension skills to truly even understand how various points could apply to several different things. Also, I think your forgetting about how it was to be a kid of the age 3-9 when you really start to decide things for yourself. Your imagination is blossoming and your whole life is ahead of you. Telling a tale to a child of that age will be more likely to enjoy the happy ending more (I do not want to imply that children don't enjoy children's movies you used examples of - they were good examples of non-tragic examples of stories with "darker" twists.) than the others. Does that make sense? (I may be going off track myself)
Also, Ariel does not lose her voice to make him love her in the happy ending version. She falls in love at first sight, a true magical occurrence because it really is possible, and she knows its her true love! She would do anything, including sacrifice her voice and try to woo him without words (Romantic!) than live with the idea than she can never have him. Also, had some things about teenager like stubbornness and how it could get you into trouble, etc.(Not as cool but value in its own right.)
I am just curious, do not go on the defensive about this question please, have you read the entire Twilight series?
Red Riding Hood is not necessarily a happy ending in my opinion. Not the type I'm talking about. Good happy endings that consume your being with positive energy and give you happy thoughts.
The plot failure I fear your experience with these "dumbed-down" plots have relevance to the age group they are aimed at. The audience is usually generated by interest and understanding a story with its entirety. If you don't really understand what the author meant, then your less likely to enjoy the story. (I hope this is making sense.)
Lastly, you didn't misinterpret my idea of tragedy, that was my fault. I hope that part is clear because you made your idea very clear and mine is indeed the same.
That depends on what you consider the "original" story. Also, it depends on whose version it is. Just like the Bible, its hard to say what actually occurred when we really don't know where, or who rather, the stories came from. Regardless, you make a valid point. We do coddle our children because the world has changed since these tales have been around. We know more about psychology and have come up with various ideas on changing others' ideas to impress the moral values of each story onto our children in to a way they can comprehend them throughout various stages in their lives. This has greatly affected the storyline & its impact or its original purpose. Yet, most people only know of disney versions or nursery rhyme versions of each tale. They are most popular for a reason though.
When everyday life is daunting and sometimes truly unbearable for some, happy endings provide an outlet for thinking in a more positive way. That makes a different impact which I value much more than just a good story. It is personal preference anyways & no matter what type of ending a story has, it will be interpreted in many different ways. Its up to the audience to decide how a story will affect them individually. If you don't like happy endings, then you shouldn't be reading that version of the tale or watching. People who call themselves really are just pessimists trying to appear more rational. It just says more about you as an individual and the way you perceive things. Optimists, see the same rational idea, with a better outcome. Changing the way you think, can change your life. Personally, a happy ending leaves me thinking with a positive frame of mind, which leaves me feeling better about pondering various points. I truly believe a happy ending is what should happen in real life & it can. These stories make it seem even more possible.
By happy endings I mean everything is just rainbowshits and confettivomit. IT's nice to have a happy ending, like prince charming finding his princess. But have you seen The Secret World of Arrietty? Or also known as The Borrower's Arrietty (Or Karigurashi no Arrietti if you're japanese).
SPOILER FOR THE MOVIE KINDA
It doesn't end too happily, yet, it still teaches morals in a good way
I have not. Thanks for the idea though, really, I may actually watch it. Anyways, I didn't say that those types of stories don't occur. We call them tragedies. :] & they are awesome to let out some schadenfreude. My point is exactly like you said, "IT's nice to have a happy ending, like prince charming find his princess."
That's the difference between you and I. I wasn't explaining a tragedy. :/ It can still be a good moralful story, without a happy ending, and not be labeled a tragedy. I dunno, is it really so black-and-white, that if something doesn't end happily it has to be a tragedy? Watch that movie--it's not a tragedy, but it's not a happy ending, though in a way it is the only way the movie could have ended.. but again--tragedy is something that can be good, yeah but I dunno, it's hard to explain. Just because something doesn't have a happy ending, isn't a tragedy--is all I'm saying and from what you say it seems like there is a distinct "Happy ending" or "Tragedy" when somethings things just don't work out. Just because the prince says "Sorry, cinderella, I found someone else" or just becuse Sleeping beauty says "AHHH RAPPE NNOOOOOO I HAVE A HUSBAND but let's stay friends" doesn't make the story any less effective, nor does it make it a tragedy. In the sense that the protagonist doesn't get what (s)he doesn't get what (s)he wants, I suppose, makes it disheartening, but maybe I'm missing the point of what a tragedy is...?
I mean in Aristotles sense it makes some sense. It's a reversal of fortune, but whenever I think tragedy, I immediately think s**t like Hamlet. I mean--that s**t is tragic, and at the same time, it could only end one way. But there's NO happiness what-so-ever in that play. Whereas even if A Goofy Movie ended up with Roxanne and Max not getting together, it would still be a "non-tragic movie" because in the end he strengthened his bond with his father. Goku died a few times in Dragonball Z, that doesn't make it a Tragedy, just because it incorporates death (I'm really going to many different dimensions here aren't I?).
Now something that THRIVES on human suffering, is tragic/tragedy. But yeah--I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, though I understand what you're saying. All I'm saying is that everything doesn't have to be the same. Things are very predictable now--especially in these children's movies. Take for example, Jim Henson's The Dark Crystal--that movie is scary, and isn't necessarily a "tragedy" or a horror, and still ends happily. The movie itself is a "kid's" movie, yet, it is for adults, just as well. It has SERIOUS themes that are hidden in it, that kids won't necessarily get until they're older, or watch it enough times. But what's REALLY in some of these stories now? What's the point for Ariel?
"LOL LOST VOICE FOUND DUDE MADE HIM LOVE ME FOR ME"
... cool story. Is there anything else besides that?
Still a better love story than twilight, though.
What's the point in Little Red Riding hood, now?
"LOL FOUND CREEPY DUDE IN BUSH, TOOK HIS ADVICE AND SAW THE CORPSE OF GRANNY--BUT IT'S FINE, CHOP HIS HEAD OFF AND DIG IN HIS ENTRAILS TO PULL HER OUT IN ONE PIECE."
Coolstory. Still a better love story than Twilight.
Now take "Howl's moving Castle" for example, still a "kid's" movie--by default, yet it has intricate themes woven in it, multiple different morals, and on a deeper level. Essentially what upsets me with today's culture, at least in what I've been seeing, is the dumbing down of practically everything. YES there are happy endings to these movies, which is fine--and that could be the question at hand, here. But essentially, there is a sense of plot failure as a result.
Grave of the Fireflies--can learn from the experience, not that all children need to see this movie at a young age--THIS would be a "tragedy."
Spirited away--"ends" the same way I could see other things ending, not necessarily happy--not necessarily sad. Just how it ended. *rant going too long jesus christ*
Anyway--I think I trailed off topic, and maybe I misinterpretted what you were saying by "tragedy" but I'm trying to make a distinct difference between tragedy--and not.
Okay. I agree with you on quite a bit of that. Oh, and you totally have the same idea of tragedy as myself, so you're all good there. I was apparently not being more accurate with my arguments. My fault. Things really are not as black and white. I was using tragedy as an example of a story that doesn't have a happy ending to agree with you about saying stories don't have to have happy endings in order to have a great plot and moral value. I apologize about this.
You said:
Just because the prince says "Sorry, cinderella, I found someone else" or just becuse Sleeping beauty says "AHHH RAPPE NNOOOOOO I HAVE A HUSBAND but let's stay friends" doesn't make the story any less effective, nor does it make it a tragedy."
I also agree to some degree. It does not make it a tragedy nor does it necessarily make it less effective. However, when the Prince and her live happily ever after and Sleeping Beauty wakes up from true love's kiss, you smile and it has, in my opinion, an enjoyable effect. That's why I read stories, I enjoy them. I read/watch what I enjoy. Not to say that everything I enjoy has a happy ending, but I would never say I didn't like them nor could I be sick on them. The effect of a happy ending can be as intoxicating as any other type of ending. I feel that way, perhaps, more so than others though.
The second paragraph I admired your ramblings. Your way of thinking is admirable. To answer your question though, yeah, too many different dimensions. It's chill though.
Starting with the third paragraph response. We are done with that, I think so we are just going to bury the dead house over yonder. :]
Which leaves this:
"It has SERIOUS themes that are hidden in it, that kids won't necessarily get until they're older, or watch it enough times. But what's REALLY in some of these stories now? What's the point for Ariel?
"LOL LOST VOICE FOUND DUDE MADE HIM LOVE ME FOR ME"
... cool story. Is there anything else besides that?
Still a better love story than twilight, though."
Hmm. Two points I want to establish first would be children will not comprehend some things about certain movies and why should they? They really don't have the comprehension skills to truly even understand how various points could apply to several different things. Also, I think your forgetting about how it was to be a kid of the age 3-9 when you really start to decide things for yourself. Your imagination is blossoming and your whole life is ahead of you. Telling a tale to a child of that age will be more likely to enjoy the happy ending more (I do not want to imply that children don't enjoy children's movies you used examples of - they were good examples of non-tragic examples of stories with "darker" twists.) than the others. Does that make sense? (I may be going off track myself)
Also, Ariel does not lose her voice to make him love her in the happy ending version. She falls in love at first sight, a true magical occurrence because it really is possible, and she knows its her true love! She would do anything, including sacrifice her voice and try to woo him without words (Romantic!) than live with the idea than she can never have him. Also, had some things about teenager like stubbornness and how it could get you into trouble, etc.(Not as cool but value in its own right.)
I am just curious, do not go on the defensive about this question please, have you read the entire Twilight series?
Red Riding Hood is not necessarily a happy ending in my opinion. Not the type I'm talking about. Good happy endings that consume your being with positive energy and give you happy thoughts.
The plot failure I fear your experience with these "dumbed-down" plots have relevance to the age group they are aimed at. The audience is usually generated by interest and understanding a story with its entirety. If you don't really understand what the author meant, then your less likely to enjoy the story. (I hope this is making sense.)
Lastly, you didn't misinterpret my idea of tragedy, that was my fault. I hope that part is clear because you made your idea very clear and mine is indeed the same. fair enough, makes sense. And it was a good discussion biggrin I understand now.
Some ppl say happy endings aren't realistic because they're not life real life but I like to think you can watch films or read books to take a break from real life...
One day I'mma write a book where the main character dies at the end, but he doesn't even know it. and even the readers will be left scratching their heads asking, what happened next? NOTHING FOOLSS!!!!
First person POV.
Trolllllllllllllllolololol
I bet it would sell like a rock aka not even get picked up for publication.
the reality is that happy fairy tale stories sell well.
people want to feel good at the end of a book, not upset
rarely do i come across fiction fantasies where the main character gets lopped off in the middle of a story doing something menial.
like, talking a walk, falling and cracking their head open right before X battle/confrontation
most books rely on protagonists carrying the story. without the protagonist or main cast of characters there is no story.
BUT THERE SHOULD BE BLOOD!! AND DEATTTHH!! especially in stories that have high risk of mortality to the characters. like harry potter. more people should've died in that story. like come on, even with powers witches/wizard kids fighting each other should have a high mortality rate if they're flying in the skies on thin broom sticks flinging deathly spells at one another.
in reality teens can't even drive while texting because it's a huge distraction. now compare this to the idea of casting spells, flying/ducking/avoiding enemy spells, and hanging onto a broom at the same time.
then again it's all fiction.
if one can't accept illogical storytelling one will not stomach most of the crack stories floating out there in the world.
books are all about escapism. happy endings are part of fostering a positive escapism experience. and this is what publishers pick up, because it sells.
unless you are a crazy talented writer, but most fiction writers aren't. most fiction writers are just good storytellers.
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