Sticky: The bad and the hated: Which games/characters suck?

[Ookami Tsukiyomi]

-yawns- I truly thank you for trying to chopping my post into little pieces and try finding every flaw you possibly can within it. (Picking up my sarcasm? I bet you get it a lot so never mind that rhetorical question)

First of all, I guess you are right. Sorry for kinda contradicting myself with that first paragraph. I always just wonder why people never seem to never stop talking about what they claim to despise. I may have done the same myself but I prefer to talk about more positive things... like right now with me defending some of Final Fantasy XD

Secondly, I didn't like FF 12 altogether but Penelo was the childhood friend of Vaan. I can see her as his only link to his past in that game. She was the one who tried to keep him from getting into trouble and thrown in jail. From an emotional perspective, maybe she knew how he had changed once his brother had died. I think she did have importance in the story... just that overall game's story wasn't interesting anyway lol...

(I wonder how far I'm gonna go with these numbers)
Thirdly, giant swords were already invented in the real world and they were effective. They were called Zanbatou, they were swords made in Japan in the feudal days to kill a horseman with a single swing... and it worked. If you want the Final Fantasy make sense by our physics than study that last sentence very carefully. They solved the problem of having a taller target with a larger mass and even more speed by doing one thing. Getting a big enough weapon to undo their entire advantage. Zanbatou translates to "horse slaying sword".

Fourthly, about the Masamune, that gun, that mega phone, and all those other impractical weapons. I admit the whole swinging the sword against the pods and it bouncing off was a little weird.

It seriously just seems like your looking for a problem though. Is it really so hard to understand? They may, kinda, sorta, almost logically work with the same physics as our world... to an extent. But this world is full of MAGIC!!! Yay! lol

It's a magical world. Let me remind you of that, even taking Materia out of the fray. Cloud is capable of creating a tornado-like vortex by merely swinging his sword, sucking the enemy in the air, instantly killing them (Finishing Touch). Tifa can cause a gigantic explosion with a single punch (Final Heaven). Barret can jump in the air and shoot a gigantic beam Dragonball Z style from his... Gatling gun? O.o (Catastrophe). Aeris is a Cetra whom can cast all kinds of spells and magic... and talk to the dead. Red XII can somehow use an attack which... I'm not sure; I guess he calls upon the power of his father or ancestors or something (Cosmo Memory). Cait Sith can do all kinds of weird s**t that defies physics. Vincent can transform into what are basically horror creatures. Cid can... like... jump really high, and suddenly fall really fast defying gravity lol. Yuffie can shoot an insane force of energy with a legendary attack passed down by her father (All Creation). There is so much more I can mention but I think you get the idea.

Fifthly, about Sephiroth. I am ending that conversation. I don't plan on arguing whether someone is a good or bad character or not anymore. I have done enough of that crap.

I can easily tell, it doesn't matter what I say or point out. It's pointless to try and change your opinion. I live with many stubborn, biased people who like to argue and they all have one thing in common. You can never change their mind about something, nor can you get them to admit they were wrong. So screw it, I could try and change your mind and convince you with a useless hope as if I were walking through a desert with no water, until I give in and give up. Some people love Sephiroth, some hate him. End of discussion... I hope.

Sixthly, I'm really tired so I'll hurry up the rest of this.

Seventhly (<-apparently that's not a word), the whole thing with Tidus doing 10 times more damage than Cloud. Trying to compare how strong characters are in games is pointless. Just look at even older Final Fantasies. Even Chrono Trigger, their max HP was 999 and it was hard just reaching the 3000 mark with damage. I don't know about you but I am absolutely sure the characters in that game were just as strong as any Final Fantasy characters considering all those bad a** attacks they could use.

Eighthly (<-not a word either), I'm not sure if I covered everything you said in your last post but I am going to bed now. Good Night! Talk to ya tomorrow person I don't know!

Ninethly (<-I just don't care anymore). Oh yea! I just rememberd! About Sora... umm... Duh! Sora kicks all a**, not just Sephiroth's XD

But I'd love to see Sora just try... just... attempt... to take on Safer Sephiroth. If Sephiroth unleashed his true power like he did at the end of FF VII, he would make that kid pee his pants lol.

Tenthly (<-Hey! How come that one is a word!?), wow I am still going. Lol I guess I got some energy after the subject turned more fun and positive. Yay! Wait... what was I gonna say? Get back to ya on that...

Eleventhly (Yay! I like making up words), just in case you took the fifthly part about, trying to convince you being impossible and all that, in an offensive way I wanted to apologize. So, sorry, just venting... or something sweatdrop Now got to think again...

Twelfthly, I just realized my post has gone so far off subject of this thread that maybe I shouldn't even finish that Tenthly...

Back to Tenthly, Now I remembered... ironically, Twelfthly actually made a good point and almost preludes what Tenthly was originally going to be. I don't think I'm here anymore to debate about who is a bad character so I might not even post again after this. If I do it will be much shorter. Besides I got stuff to do which I was supposed to do but I got distracted with making this reply. Anyway, it was fun having a pointless argument with you. Bye Essy!!! (I'ma gonna call you that from now on) Yay, nickname!

[Ess_Tii_Eph_Yhuu]

Ookami Tsukiyomi

-yawns-

Uh-oh. I'm in trouble now. This guy yawned.

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I truly thank you for trying to chopping my post into little pieces and try finding every flaw you possibly can within it.

It wasn't hard.

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Secondly, I didn't like FF 12 altogether but Penelo was the childhood friend of Vaan. I can see her as his only link to his past in that game. She was the one who tried to keep him from getting into trouble and thrown in jail. From an emotional perspective, maybe she knew how he had changed once his brother had died. I think she did have importance in the story... just that overall game's story wasn't interesting anyway lol...

She really didn't, though. She has less impact on the plot than a normal named NPC does. If you'd removed her altogether, the entire game would have been almost exactly the same, and Vaan, who's already superfluous and under-developed anyway, wouldn't have had what passes for his character depth suffer.

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Thirdly, giant swords were already invented in the real world and they were effective. They were called Zanbatou, they were swords made in Japan in the feudal days to kill a horseman with a single swing... and it worked.

But not nearly so well as a weapon with a more variable range of use that could be more readily used and mastered--the bow and arrow. Spears have been very effectively used against cavalry in the past, too, and once again are weapons with much greater and easier use. I also don't see the point of defending a character using a weapon effective against mounted foes when the character never actually fights any. You might as well defend somebody attacking a dragon with an apple corer because the apple corer is a deadly weapon should you ever have to fight an apple.

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If you want the Final Fantasy make sense by our physics than study that last sentence very carefully. They solved the problem of having a taller target with a larger mass and even more speed by doing one thing. Getting a big enough weapon to undo their entire advantage. Zanbatou translates to "horse slaying sword".

You realize that the height and mass of a mounted warrior is considerably different than the mass and height, not to mention battle abilities, of most of the enemies Cloud fights. None of which are people riding horses, I might once again note, making your entire defense here irrelevant.

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Fourthly, about the Masamune, that gun, that mega phone, and all those other impractical weapons. I admit the whole swinging the sword against the pods and it bouncing off was a little weird.

No, it wasn't. What would have been weird would have been if Sephiroth's sword had caused any serious damage to them. What with, y'know, it just being a sword swung by a guy against a large pod. What doesn't make sense is assuming it can cut through anything when it's clearly shown multiple times that it can't.

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It seriously just seems like your looking for a problem though.

And finding one. And thus proving my point while discrediting yours. It's not my fault that the game backs me up and not you.

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Is it really so hard to understand? They may, kinda, sorta, almost logically work with the same physics as our world... to an extent. But this world is full of MAGIC!!! Yay! lol

And the magic is distinctly portrayed as being contained within Materia! And having nothing to do with the actual workings of the world's physics! So your point is meaningless! Again! Yay! The only exceptions to this rule seem to be Limit Breaks, which, hey, are only activated at rare moments, so I guess they also don't have any relevance to the argument.

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It's a magical world. Let me remind you of that, even taking Materia out of the fray. Cloud is capable of creating a tornado-like vortex by merely swinging his sword, sucking the enemy in the air, instantly killing them (Finishing Touch). Tifa can cause a gigantic explosion with a single punch (Final Heaven). Barret can jump in the air and shoot a gigantic beam Dragonball Z style from his... Gatling gun? O.o (Catastrophe). Aeris is a Cetra whom can cast all kinds of spells and magic... and talk to the dead. Red XII can somehow use an attack which... I'm not sure; I guess he calls upon the power of his father or ancestors or something (Cosmo Memory). Cait Sith can do all kinds of weird s**t that defies physics. Vincent can transform into what are basically horror creatures. Cid can... like... jump really high, and suddenly fall really fast defying gravity lol. Yuffie can shoot an insane force of energy with a legendary attack passed down by her father (All Creation). There is so much more I can mention but I think you get the idea.

And every single example you just provided are Limit Breaks. Not once did you mention anything outside an event which only occurs in rare circumstances for mere moments. Cloud and Sephiroth don't just lift their idiotic, silly swords during their limit breaks. They use them all the time. So the physics of their world, which are entirely separate from the world's magical elements as the game clearly shows and implies through Materia and Limit Breaks being self-contained sources of magic (and/or spiritual energy of indeterminate origin, in the case of Limit Breaks), still apply.

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I can easily tell, it doesn't matter what I say or point out. It's pointless to try and change your opinion. I live with many stubborn, biased people who like to argue and they all have one thing in common. You can never change their mind about something, nor can you get them to admit they were wrong. So screw it, I could try and change your mind and convince you with a useless hope as if I were walking through a desert with no water, until I give in and give up.

This is a very eloquent way of saying "You won't immediately agree with me so I give up because I'm lazy." People tell me all the time that I won't change my mind/opinion no matter what they say. But really, what they mean is that they don't want to bother actually trying to do so. Because, see, when I'm proven wrong in conversation? I recognize it. It doesn't happen often, because I think over my opinions on subjects for a long time and try to consider all possibilities as thoroughly as possible, so chances are the arguments someone else comes up with against my opinion are ones I've already posed to myself and disproved. But on the occasions where I do get proven wrong, I revise my beliefs. Maybe if YOU provided adequate evidence and rational arguments that actually take the game itself into consideration, I would change my mind. But so far, everything you've come up with is easily discredited by the game and simple logic.

Yet your opinion remains unchanged. Why am I the one being accused of being stubborn here? MY opinions are actually backed with solid reasons.

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Seventhly (<-apparently that's not a word), the whole thing with Tidus doing 10 times more damage than Cloud. Trying to compare how strong characters are in games is pointless. Just look at even older Final Fantasies. Even Chrono Trigger, their max HP was 999 and it was hard just reaching the 3000 mark with damage. I don't know about you but I am absolutely sure the characters in that game were just as strong as any Final Fantasy characters considering all those bad a** attacks they could use.

Fair enough. But either you want to consider the game worlds' combat instances to be evidence or you don't. You've been talking about looking at the argument from the perspective of the game, but now you're saying that technicalities of the game's actual battle rules don't necessarily count. Which is fine with me, since that brings us back to counting logical interpretation and common sense, which has so far all been on my side of the debate, but you should make up your mind on this.

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About Sora... umm... Duh! Sora kicks all a**, not just Sephiroth's XD

Not always. If you're looking for it, Sora gets his a** bailed out by other people a LOT in his games. He's a long way from unstoppable.

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But I'd love to see Sora just try... just... attempt... to take on Safer Sephiroth. If Sephiroth unleashed his true power like he did at the end of FF VII, he would make that kid pee his pants lol.

I somewhat doubt it, given:

A. Safer Sephiroth was an extremely easy boss.
B. Safer Sephiroth was an extremely silly-looking boss. Oh no, a man that looks like a woman has taken off his shirt and has wings coming out of his butt! How terrifying.
C. Sora takes on larger, more intimidating, MUCH more powerful and challenging bosses in his games several times.

[Cheri paix]

JAR JAR BINKS

[Dead Sea Sclerosis]

i think the gigantic swords make more sense in Advent Children and Crisis Core, since the characters can practically FLY and the laws of physics are subjected to a perverse distortion.

oh me oh my did i hate that scene when all the characters are flinging Cloud upwards through the sky.

[Blazing Green Dragon]

7 was just a horrible game. so was 8

[Lucrecias Love]

Let us see the ones i hated the most would have to be...Vaan and Penelo from Final Fantasy 12! They are so annoying and apart from the real story! And on top of that they (mostly Penelo) are just play annyoing! Also, even though he be cool, Sephiroth. That last battle...beat him once, he gets harder, bet him again, he gets harder until he does an attack that almost kills your entire team...Curse him and his awesomeness!

[Agent Crab]

Safer Sephiroth was a p***y-winkle in Final Fantasy VII. I've never met an easier end boss... well.. Gradius last bosses, but.. Jeeze...

[Ookami Tsukiyomi]

Sorry Essy, your just tiresome... -yawns again- I really don't think your as open minded as you think. While I could do the exact thing your doing at the moment by splitting your entire post into pieces just to mention every problem and disagreement I believe to be there using one piece of evidence to throw off the rest without looking at it in more than one direction at a time, I actually prefer doing the exact opposite.

As much fun as it could be but probably won't be, I don't feel like debating with you anymore. Sorry, I may be lazy or whatever you say, I just have things to do which I feel are better uses of my time. Since your so talented at blurting out how everyone is wrong, I'll leave it to you to do so. Bye thread.

[Ess_Tii_Eph_Yhuu]

Ookami Tsukiyomi

Sorry Essy, your just tiresome... -yawns again-

I regularly hear similar sentiments expressed about many other things one can learn from. I'm not terribly distraught over this.

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I really don't think your as open minded as you think.

A rather close-minded conclusion, ironically.

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While I could do the exact thing your doing at the moment by splitting your entire post into pieces just to mention every problem and disagreement I believe to be there using one piece of evidence to throw off the rest without looking at it in more than one direction at a time, I actually prefer doing the exact opposite.

So you prefer NOT backing up your statements, NOT having a shred of actual proof to your claims, and NOT expending any effort to argue your point. So, by logical conclusion, you prefer to keep your opinion without considering any other possibility just because that possibility has better logic and evidence on its side than yours.

Yes, clearly I am the one who is not open-minded here.

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As much fun as it could be but probably won't be, I don't feel like debating with you anymore.

I'm heart-broken.

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Sorry, I may be lazy or whatever you say, I just have things to do which I feel are better uses of my time.

Kid, let's be honest here: if you had better things to do, you wouldn't be on Gaia in the first place. Saying that you've got better things to do than post on Gaia in a post on Gaia isn't terribly convincing.

[Iakun]

Dead Sea Sclerosis

oh me oh my did i hate that scene when all the characters are flinging Cloud upwards through the sky.

It's like a chinese fighting movie on steroids, managing to get up to Bahamut, killing him, and then landing without dying. But then when he fights Sephiroth there's a moment where he has to hold on to a ledge so he doesn't fall and die. IT ALL MAKES SENSEnot.

[Brad Hiburi]

12 was the worst for the fact that it made no sence whatsoever! and the worst charecter has to be penello, she has what, like 10 lines and she sucks in battle all the same.

[D_Lirium]

Brad Hiburi

12 was the worst for the fact that it made no sence whatsoever! and the worst charecter has to be penello, she has what, like 10 lines and she sucks in battle all the same.

I almost completely agree. I never used Caitsith in 7 or Selphie in 8.

[Neko_chan_IX]

spark_1357

Garnet. I LOATH her!! You have to save her so many times!! And when you think you can FINALLY make use of her summons, what does she do? She goes and loses her voice! which means she can't concentrate!! I HATE GARNET!!!

I kinda understand with they make dagger with that personality
she went throurgh a lot and she wasn t sure wat to do
I know because I was like her once, my friends were always "saving me" and I couldn t do anything on my own =P
kinda stupid now to think of it because now that I do me and my bf are a lot alike with zidane and garnet xD
to many parts of the game are alike xD

[Neko_chan_IX]

FreeBong

Cloud

becouse he is Tidus's true father

(cmon they look identicle)

LOOOOL XD
good point xD

[Neko_chan_IX]

I found cid from ffIV pretty useless -_-
dont like him