Sticky: The bad and the hated: Which games/characters suck?

[Momo K.]

I think I have one for every other FF game.

*Lionheart from FF2. I consider him a traitor, and it's hard to use him because the skill rank up trick can't be done on a fourth party member.

*Kain from FF4. Didn't I just mention that I despise traitors?

*Gilgamesh from FF5. Seems like he's everywhere for the better part of the game until his boss chucks him into the N-Zone.

*Gau from FF6. He feels like merely a filler character like Gogo and Umaro, and he's only as good as the enemy skills he gets to learn from the Veldt.

*Barret Wallace from FF7. A big man + whiny and annoying = eww.

*Irvine Kinneas from FF8. He may look hot and all, but his tendency to hit on every female party member gives me the willies.

*Adlebert Steiner from FF9. He feels like a stockier and triply annoying version of Barret.

[Alexia Raneia]

Bleedinggrey510

Did someone dare say they disliked Sephiroth? Say that to the Sephy Fanatics. Put your dodgeball skills to good use.

Dodgeball? That'd be freaking pitchforks and knives they'd be dodging at this point, mate. Beware of the Sephy fans, for they are pyromaniacs.

[Ess_Tii_Eph_Yhuu]

Alexia Raneia

Bleedinggrey510

Did someone dare say they disliked Sephiroth? Say that to the Sephy Fanatics. Put your dodgeball skills to good use.

Dodgeball? That'd be freaking pitchforks and knives they'd be dodging at this point, mate. Beware of the Sephy fans, for they are pyromaniacs.

But thankfully, the necessary low intelligence one must have to seriously consider Sephiroth anything but a poorly-developed character and laughably weak, lazy, and ineffectual villain usually means that they'll either kill themselves via a natural gift at tripping whenever they're carrying knives/pitchforks, or set themselves on fire as they fumble with matches--these people rarely have enough grace with their hands to even spell his damn name right.. So those of us with some semblance of taste remain safe.

[haloshatterer v2]

i don't like Irvine, Tidus, Brother, Rinoa, Steiner, Quina, Yuffie and a few others that i cant think of at the moment

[Maximus02]

Tidus cuz hes just a dream

[Ess_Tii_Eph_Yhuu]

Maximus02

Tidus cuz hes just a dream

I wrote a rant a while back regarding this common, nonsensical complaint. Lemme dig it up here and skip a few paragraphs to the main part...

A Wise Box-Person

...The reason for hating Tidus that I may hear the most often, however, and the one that I've taken 3 paragraphs to finally get around to discussing, is because he "isn't real." This view comes from the fact that Tidus is, like the Aeons you summon in that game, a manifestation of the dreams of the Fayth, put into the real world and maintained through inadequately-explored and plot-convenient magical means.

Now, there is an obvious rebuttal to this especially nonsensical reason to dislike a character: that NONE of the characters in ANY Final Fantasy game are real anyways, so for the love of sweet toast, how can it possibly matter how "real" they are in their completely own 100% imaginary worlds?

But, for the sake of having an actual rant on this, let's put aside that tidy piece of logic, and use our imaginations for a moment to pretend that a video game character's lack of realness in his/her/its own game is a legitimate complaint. Let's look at how "real" Tidus is.

First of all, in the strictest, most scientific sense, he seems real enough. He interacts with physical environments, affecting and being affected by them. He swims in water, holds and moves objects, and can physically interact with others, such as the ability to hug Yuna or strike Seymour. His body seems to work as any other real Spiran human's does--he feels physical sensations like cold, pain, and hunger. So I'm pretty sure he qualifies as being as physically real as anyone else in the game.

What about spiritually, though? What, if anything, decides whether he's "real" in terms of his humanity? I think the best way to go about determining that is to look at his existence as an emotional being, and his accomplishments and impact on others. Such things are, essentially, what verifies our existence to others, and to ourselves mentally.

So let's look at Tidus's state and development as a human being. Over the course of the game, Tidus shows (occasionally excessively) emotions of joy, sorrow, despair, determination, irritation, petulance, and enthusiasm, among many others. Over the course of the game, he develops from a somewhat selfish, very disrespectful loud-mouth to a selfless, supportive leader. He learns from experience, comes to terms with father issues he's had for many years, and falls deeply enough in love to be completely willing to give up his life so that the woman he loves and the world she inhabits will be able to live on in peace. It's pretty safe to say that he's as real a human being as any other given RPG character--hell, it's pretty safe to say that he's a lot MORE real than at least half of them.

What about accomplishments? His impact on others? Well, let's see. Tidus defeats hordes of monsters of all sizes, disrupts a global society's traditional religious views, brings a conclusion to a previously unending cycle of destruction and sacrifice, effects a complete change of thinking in several of the people who travel with him through his example and actions (teaching Wakka open-mindedness and tolerance, helping Lulu overcome some of the grief and distrust of emotions that she's had since Chappu's death, and, of course, showing Yuna what it is to live for herself and have the courage to break free and change what is wrong, rather than simply suffer it for others' sakes), and, of course, saves the world from a deranged, seemingly narcissistic nitwit out to destroy it for the most idiotic reasons imaginable (remember, it's not Final Fantasy if you don't feel like slamming your head against the wall at hearing the main villain's motivation!). Regardless of how "real" his origins are, Tidus is clearly real enough to be one of the most important figures in Spira's history.

So in the end, Tidus is real by any reasonable standard I can come up with. And even if one considers him not to be--it still obviously changes nothing about who he is and what he does, so how can it possibly be something to hate him for?

[DevilishShadowKitten]

Dude I love Zell from FF VIII, he was so badass and he didn't take crap from anybody!

[DevilishShadowKitten]

Ess_Tii_Eph_Yhuu

Alexia Raneia

Bleedinggrey510

Did someone dare say they disliked Sephiroth? Say that to the Sephy Fanatics. Put your dodgeball skills to good use.

Dodgeball? That'd be freaking pitchforks and knives they'd be dodging at this point, mate. Beware of the Sephy fans, for they are pyromaniacs.

But thankfully, the necessary low intelligence one must have to seriously consider Sephiroth anything but a poorly-developed character and laughably weak, lazy, and ineffectual villain usually means that they'll either kill themselves via a natural gift at tripping whenever they're carrying knives/pitchforks, or set themselves on fire as they fumble with matches--these people rarely have enough grace with their hands to even spell his damn name right.. So those of us with some semblance of taste remain safe.

Lol, I love Sephiroth, and he was perhaps the best char out of all the Final Fantasy's. Masamune and it was bigger than him, how can you bad mouth that!??!

[Ess_Tii_Eph_Yhuu]

DevilishShadowKitten

Lol, I love Sephiroth, and he was perhaps the best char out of all the Final Fantasy's. Masamune and it was bigger than him, how can you bad mouth that!??!

Pretty easily, actually--I bring up the fact that it looks silly to walk around with a weapon several times too large to actually be used for combat. Fanboys' passively homo-erotic fixation with bigger swords being inexplicably cool, no one could actually lift any katana that long. Even if we put aside the physical impossibilities of even a super soldier actually trying to swing it, a sword that size would have extremely limited use in any situation where there isn't much empty space around its user, and would be so slow and unwieldy to properly thrust, swing, and parry with that you could only reliably take on one enemy at a time with it. Also, the sheer amount of time that it would take a person to learn how to use a weapon that unnecessarily huge with even the slightest degree of competence would most likely have meant near combat mastery if it had been spent learning how to use a smaller, far more effective weapon, like a regular sword, or more sensibly a gun. The common moron's assumption that "Bigger = TOTALLY AWSOME!!!" isn't actually true, I'm afraid.

[Dead Sea Sclerosis]

Ess_Tii_Eph_Yhuu

DevilishShadowKitten

Lol, I love Sephiroth, and he was perhaps the best char out of all the Final Fantasy's. Masamune and it was bigger than him, how can you bad mouth that!??!

Pretty easily, actually--I bring up the fact that it looks silly to walk around with a weapon several times too large to actually be used for combat. Fanboys' passively homo-erotic fixation with bigger swords being inexplicably cool, no one could actually lift any katana that long. Even if we put aside the physical impossibilities of even a super soldier actually trying to swing it, a sword that size would have extremely limited use in any situation where there isn't much empty space around its user, and would be so slow and unwieldy to properly thrust, swing, and parry with that you could only reliably take on one enemy at a time with it. Also, the sheer amount of time that it would take a person to learn how to use a weapon that unnecessarily huge with even the slightest degree of competence would most likely have meant near combat mastery if it had been spent learning how to use a smaller, far more effective weapon, like a regular sword, or more sensibly a gun. The common moron's assumption that "Bigger = TOTALLY AWSOME!!!" isn't actually true, I'm afraid.

my friend has a MASSIVE potato cannon. it's hilarious. apparently he and his mates go out and shoot potatos every week. they each have their own, but his is the biggest. i can't decide whether this is rampant homoeroticism or compensation for what he lacks.

[NatFantasy]

Hmmm i dont hate rinoa completly but the amount of times you have to save her is just annoying. Ok the first 2 times are fine but when it gets to about 7 i start to get a little bit anrgy =) I used to hate tidus cause' he was just annoying but he's the strongest person in my team so i love him now XD!

[Ookami Tsukiyomi]

The bad, the hated? I don't like this thread, hearing people trying to insult characters they don't like. I don't like anyone who likes spending their time trying to fill the world full of negativity.

I think every character in the Final Fantasy games had their purpose, and they all were important to the story line whether they bothered you or gave you jaw dropping moments with "Wow" and "OMG" coming out of those mouths. (No one should dis Barret)

@Ess_Tii_Eph_Yhuu: In case you never payed attention, their is no object that wouldn't be split and sliced straight through by the Masamune when Sephiroth wielded it. So it's crazy length really isn't a disadvantage at all. It just adds to the effect that he is unstoppable and just scary as all hell. That is what made Sephiroth a great bad guy for some people. He didn't make you laugh, he sent a shiver down your spine as all you humans around him were pathetic beings in which he could slay and slaughter with one simple swing of his sword. As you can tell from when he destroyed Cloud's town, the moment Sephiroth's mind turned to revenge, no man or woman was safe from his wrath.

Also, the great thing about Sephiroth was in the game he seemed so out of this world, like his logic was completely incomprehensible. All the bad guys/antagonists goals in FF before him were straight forward. It's either rule the world or destroy it. Sephiroth seemed to want to remake the world and become a god for reasons none could really understand besides it being Jenova's will. Why he wanted to do her will... well, none can really say, and that's my point. He was just so twisted, powerful, and scary that it all mixed together into one hell of a villain.

Honestly though, I think there are way too many Sephiroth fans who forget to admire Rufus, President of Shinra. The great thing about FF VII is it had two awesome villains, and they both clashed against each other in the end. In fact if it wasn't for Shinra and Rufus, Cloud and his team never would have even made it to Sephiroth. Not too mention Rufus and his company were the only people brave enough to take on the Weapons which seemed even stronger than Sephiroth.

Lastly, the Weapons bring up an EXCELLENT POINT! In the world of Final Fantasy, some of the games have s**t so big and powerful, of course the only way your going to even hurt them any more than just a simple annoyance is by getting a huge frickin' sword like Cloud's. End of discussion. You wanna talk about being limited in battle, well lets see what a regular broad sword could do to a gigantic godzilla looking creature like the Weapons (FFVII) or Sin (FFX). Plus there are some regular creatures who are of considerably large size and would definitely require a bit more weight and size to do some really good damage.

Your all thinking of the huge weapons in video games as if it were in real life, use your creativity a bit and see it in a situation like theirs.

[Ess_Tii_Eph_Yhuu]

Ookami Tsukiyomi

The bad, the hated? I don't like this thread, hearing people trying to insult characters they don't like. I don't like anyone who likes spending their time trying to fill the world full of negativity.

Doesn't this statement automatically mean you dislike yourself, what with you right hear making negative statements about people who make negative statements?

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I think every character in the Final Fantasy games had their purpose, and they all were important to the story line whether they bothered you or gave you jaw dropping moments with "Wow" and "OMG" coming out of those mouths.

Right, yeah. Final Fantasy 12 would be SO different without Penelo serving her purpose within it.

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@Ess_Tii_Eph_Yhuu: In case you never payed attention, their is no object that wouldn't be split and sliced straight through by the Masamune when Sephiroth wielded it.

Um...besides the objects that weren't split and sliced straight through by the Masamune when Sephiroth wielded it. Like Cloud's sword. Or the relatively unarmored holding pods in the Mako Reactor at Nibelheim.

Shouldn't a fan of Sephiroth have actually paid MORE attention to him than I did, instead of less?

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So it's crazy length really isn't a disadvantage at all.

Except that it still takes him much longer to swing it than it would take him to do so with a shorter blade, is still going to be unwieldy in any enclosed space, and isn't as quick or effective a killing tool as a simple gun would be in the hands of an expert.

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It just adds to the effect that he is unstoppable

I love how people call Sephiroth unstoppable, when the undeniable reality is that he's been stopped, and killed, more times in Final Fantasy history than any other villain. Not to mention his easy defeats OUTSIDE Final Fantasy--a 12-year-old with a big key who hangs out with cartoons can whup his sorry a** multiple times.

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and just scary as all hell. That is what made Sephiroth a great bad guy for some people. He didn't make you laugh,

He makes ME laugh. His goal is to hit his own world with a huge astral rock, which he assumes for no explained reason will allow him to gain godlike powers from sucking up Lifestream even though Aeris clearly shows through her actions beyond the grave that the Lifestream is not only capable of directing itself, but has a much stronger influence over itself than he's capable of exerting, all for the purpose of...what? Assuming that he even CAN gain that power instead of being vaporized by the Armageddon of a rock that size slamming into a planet at high speeds, which there's actually NO given reason to believe beyond his own ranting (and he traditionally has a shaky grasp on how and why things happen), what's the ******** point? To bring Jenova to other worlds, if memory serves? Shinra already HAS space-going technology; he could've saved himself the trouble by just hijacking their remaining rocket once it was fixed and shoving Jenova into it.

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he sent a shiver down your spine as all you humans around him were pathetic beings in which he could slay and slaughter with one simple swing of his sword.

Except for all the ones he can't. Which is most of them. I mean, which humans is he even shown killing? Unarmed civilians? A fat president who's sitting down? A flower girl who's looking in the other direction? The wounds he inflicts on anyone even remotely capable of defending themselves, such as Zack and Tseng (and Tseng wasn't even on guard; Sephiroth basically sucker-punched him...granted Tseng is an idiot to just stand around 5 feet away from a likely enemy, but then, the Turks are known for being completely ineffectual morons), aren't fatal, and a halfway decent fighter like Cloud or, if you go by KH (which there's no reason not to), Tifa, can at least keep up with him, if not outright beat him one-on-one. Given that he can barely stay ahead of even one of Cloud's gang in a single fight, it's a reasonable assumption that just two of them together could rather easily beat the living daylights out of him.

And I'd like to point out again, for being so deadly and powerful, he dies a ******** LOT.

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As you can tell from when he destroyed Cloud's town, the moment Sephiroth's mind turned to revenge, no man or woman was safe from his wrath.

Unless they know how to fight, in which case he doesn't seem to be able to beat them. I mean, going by your own example, the one person in town with combat experience, Zangan, was alive and well by the time Cloud left the mansion. Funny thing, that!

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Also, the great thing about Sephiroth was in the game he seemed so out of this world, like his logic was completely incomprehensible. All the bad guys/antagonists goals in FF before him were straight forward. It's either rule the world or destroy it. Sephiroth seemed to want to remake the world and become a god for reasons none could really understand besides it being Jenova's will. Why he wanted to do her will... well, none can really say, and that's my point. He was just so twisted, powerful, and scary that it all mixed together into one hell of a villain.

So you consider it a GOOD thing when a character is written so poorly that their goals make no sense and don't have adequate explanation provided. That certainly is a...creative outlook.

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Lastly, the Weapons bring up an EXCELLENT POINT! In the world of Final Fantasy, some of the games have s**t so big and powerful, of course the only way your going to even hurt them any more than just a simple annoyance is by getting a huge frickin' sword like Cloud's. End of discussion.

Except that the regular-sized weapons that the other characters use, like guns, a spear, and even a ridiculous megaphone, also do nearly, equal, or potentially more damage to the Weapons. And the mega-sized monsters in other Final Fantasies take damage from swords that aren't ridiculously huge--Sin's about a Weapon's size, and Tidus's sword is potentially 10 times more effective than Cloud's in dealing damage to it.

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You wanna talk about being limited in battle, well lets see what a regular broad sword could do to a gigantic godzilla looking creature like the Weapons (FFVII) or Sin (FFX).

According to the games, about as much damage as Cloud's larger sword. The fact that you're even bringing up the idea that Cloud's sword's size makes a significant difference in the battle is laughable to begin with. Aside from the simple, prove fact that it doesn't, exactly how much of a difference to a titan the size of a mountain is it going to be to have a tiny sword the size of a pine needle jab him, or a tiny sword the size of a toothpick jab him?

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Plus there are some regular creatures who are of considerably large size and would definitely require a bit more weight and size to do some really good damage.

Except that, once again going by the game's own evidence, they don't. Tifa's average-sized fists are still about as effective on large monsters as Cloud's big sword.

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Your all thinking of the huge weapons in video games as if it were in real life, use your creativity a bit and see it in a situation like theirs.

The situation like theirs still takes place on a planet with physics nearly or exactly the same as ours, meaning that the problems the huge weapons in the video games would have in real life should also apply to the game world.

[Iakun]

I really wasn't feeling FFXII. That was the first FF which I disliked quite a lot of things. The summons, the characters, the battling, the story, the music.

edit: Oh right, and Sephiroth. He just felt so pointless and it irks me how people love him so much and how he HAS to show up in 2 Kingdom Hearts games.

[Flesk456]

The characters suck badly and the graphics to the storyline is horrible scream scream