[ Poll ] Your genitals do not matter?

do genitals matter to you in a romantic relationship?

I am straight and I will not date anyone within my gender		51.1%	[ 113 ]
I am gay and I will only date people of my gender		6.8%	[ 15 ]
I am bisexual and I do not care		32.6%	[ 72 ]
I do not understand the definition of straight and homosexual		9.5%	[ 21 ]

Total Votes: 221

[Captain Verd]

Olya

A person is what I know this person to be. I develop feelings for what I assume this person to be and that person exists in my mind according to that assumption. This is the same as asking "could you ever love a serial killer?" No. He could impose on me as something he is not and make me fall for him under false pretences but had I known who he was, it would have never happened. Yet, there are women who fall for serial killers while knowing exactly who those people are. That is the difference. Can you love someone for who that person is? Becoming infatuated with pictures your mind drew up with that person's help or without does not really mean much and only indicates that I can harbour feelings for that person only while staying completely ignorant (aka - I cannot love that person).

...it's easy, without too much fooling, to pass for cultured in our ranks.

You can love a transsexual for who they are without even knowing what their genitals are. We always love people based on assumptions. You assume your boyfriend acts x way and will do x things etc, and love him based on that information. Should you discover he, for example, kills puppies, your love could vanish in an instant.

If you think it's love, then it is. If that love happens to go away for any reason, that doesn't retroactively negate the fact that you did love that person. That would mean a person has never loved anyone aside from the person they love at that very moment.

[Captain Verd]

Olya

Rosetta Celestine

I think "illusion" is kind of a rude word to use. What if the guy never claimed to not be trans?

Also, if he looks, walks, and acts like a man, why is he not a man?

We all meandered through our schooling haphazard; so, to God be thanks,

Because his chromosomes read XY. He can be male, but not a man.

Also, how is omitting that fact any better. If he knows I'll take him for a man unless he tells me, is that not deceiving?

...it's easy, without too much fooling, to pass for cultured in our ranks.

When discussing transsexuality, it is better to differentiate between terms. Though gender can be used to describe both physical and psychological, it is best to use simply the psychological, and use "sex" to describe the physical.

So a persona can be physically a man and mentally a woman. To clarify and cut down on word usage, it's easier to simply say that a male can still be a woman. See?

EDIT: For the second part, I refer you back to my hypothetical situation. Not everyone can be held to the automatic honesty thing due to negative past experiences.

[Rosetta Celestine]

Olya

Rosetta Celestine

I think "illusion" is kind of a rude word to use. What if the guy never claimed to not be trans?

Also, if he looks, walks, and acts like a man, why is he not a man?

We all meandered through our schooling haphazard; so, to God be thanks,

Because his chromosomes read XY. He can be male, but not a man.

Also, how is omitting that fact any better. If he knows I'll take him for a man unless he tells me, is that not deceiving?

...it's easy, without too much fooling, to pass for cultured in our ranks.

So he's suppose to where a sign around his neck telling everyone he has a v****a?

Also, you don't see their chromosomes. You just see qualities that we used to differentiate genders. Gender-wise he's a man since he is indistinguishable from any other man.

[Yaminon]

Olya

Yaminon

Olya

Albany King

Olya

The fact that I fall for someone only because I mistake that person for a man means that I can only love a man. Loving an illusion =/= loving a person. Just because you love a character does not mean you love the actor who played him.

Good for them?

If a friend of mine could tell me that he has schizophrenia the day we met, a trans-sexual person can tell me that he or she is a trans-sexual. There are people who will date a trans-sexual individual while knowing that the person is a trans-sexual. There is no reason to impose on people who will not want you if they find out what you are. That is deceit and insecurity and I would not deal with either.

...it's easy, without too much fooling, to pass for cultured in our ranks.

It means you can have romantic feelings for someone, but those feelings could change abruptly once you find something out about them. It does not mean you can never develop romantic feelings for a transsexual.

We all meandered through our schooling haphazard; so, to God be thanks,

A person is what I know this person to be. I develop feelings for what I assume this person to be and that person exists in my mind according to that assumption. This is the same as asking "could you ever love a serial killer?" No. He could impose on me as something he is not and make me fall for him under false pretences but had I known who he was, it would have never happened. Yet, there are women who fall for serial killers while knowing exactly who those people are. That is the difference. Can you love someone for who that person is? Becoming infatuated with pictures your mind drew up with that person's help or without does not really mean much and only indicates that I can harbour feelings for that person only while staying completely ignorant (aka - I cannot love that person).

...it's easy, without too much fooling, to pass for cultured in our ranks.

Did you really just compare a transsexual to a serial killer?

Transsexuals are presenting themselves as precisely what they are. You cannot assume to know everything about someone all the time, and you cannot assume that your ideas of what constitutes a certain category is the same as theirs.

I am a boy. I fit under my definition of a boy. It's not my fault if I don't fit under your definition of a boy, and I am not being deceptive if I don't disclose my medical history to you.

Edit: And I would hope people in a committed relationship would want to share everything with each other, but not having shared intimate details about one's life until a comfort level is established is not deceitful.

We all meandered through our schooling haphazard; so, to God be thanks,

It was a comparable situation. I did not criminalize or demoralized transsexality - don't even go there.

Also, if you're at a bar talking to a single woman and flirting, if your acquaintance starts acting sweeter to you than an indifferent acquaintance should, if you are in a position where any romantic and/or sexual relationship can develop, yes, you should disclose. No one is saying that you should tell everyone in your grocery line, but there are situations where people should know what to expect before things go further than they should with present information.

...it's easy, without too much fooling, to pass for cultured in our ranks.

No. I'm not responsible for anyone else's feelings or emotions that I have no control over. If I am not comfortable and especially if I am not planning on doing anything in which they actually have any need to know about my body, they won't be told unless I wish to tell them.

If someone is flirting with me that doesn't give them the rights to my medical history. If I plan to have sex with them that's something else entirely, but if they plan to have try and have sex with me and the desire isn't reciprocated I don't care. It's none of their business.

PS. Transsexuals aren't really in a greater habit of one night stands than any other population on Earth, so I would assume a trust relationship would be built before information like this is disclosed anyway.

[Albany King]

Captain Verd

EDIT: For the second part, I refer you back to my hypothetical situation. Not everyone can be held to the automatic honesty thing due to negative past experiences.

Agreed. Unless the transsexual person is deliberately skirting the issue or changing the subject when asked, can we really say they are lying? If they've been harassed or hated on in the past after revealing such information, can we look down on them for not walking into a bar and telling everyone they see that their genitals don't match the rest of them?

[Syndactyly]

x Sarnath x

Um, no offense, but if you have a v****a, you're a girl. By law and by most people's logic.

Wrong on so many levels.

1) In the United States I am only required to have chest reconstructive surgery to become a man legally on a federal and nationwide level.
2) Girl is a gendered term, therefore I am not one. You would be correct if you stated that I will always be, on some level, biologically female. But since people don't look at my chromosomes on a regular basis, I don't think is really matters.

x Sarnath x

I never understood why this kind of thing matters so much to people. So you don't want to be a girl. I don't really see what's so ******** awful about being a girl, but okay. Why would you be so uncomfortable in your own body? Why do you think being the other gender is a solution?

This isn't about what's "wrong" with girls, females, or the female gender. I have no problem with women, with girls, or with femininity. This is about my anatomy, as well as how I want my person to be addressed. I identify as a man wholly and completely, there isn't a part of me that identifies as female. You seem to very strongly identify as female. It should make sense to you that gender identity is not something someone can just change.

I don't know WHY I am uncomfortable with having female parts, I just AM. No psychologist in the world knows WHY transsexuals feel the way they do. If they DID know why, they might be able to reverse the psychological aspect. But they don't, and they can't, so they let us transition. If there was a psychological solution, I might have chosen it. MIGHT. Because my gender identity is a very large part of who I am.

I don't think being the "other" gender is a solution to any of my other problems. It ONLY has an effect on the gender issue itself.

x Sarnath x

Maybe you have big problems in your life. Maybe you have issues with yourself. But I don't see how being the other gender or pretending to be the other gender is going to fix these issues. Just be YOU. Forget about fitting into gender stereotypes, or being hung up on what society thinks you are.

I am not pretending to be the "other" gender. Also, I AM just being me. I just HAPPEN to fit into the male gender role NATURALLY. I am not putting on a show.

x Sarnath x

Yeah, but this is a "society inflicted" disorder.

Proving that you know NOTHING about Gender Identity Disorder, transgenderism, or the Standards of Care.

Within the Gender Identity Disorder criteria for a clinical diagnosis, it is stated that transition CANNOT be desired for the "social benefits" of the other sex. If the transition, dysphoria, or identity is socially motivated, the patient will not be diangosed with GID, and therefore will not be allowed to transition.

x Sarnath x

If all these surgeries and hormone treatments weren't available, people would just suck it up and live with their gender like everybody else.

Transgenderism has existed for thousands of years. Medical transition in the United States has only existed for a little over 50 years. How do you explain this?

This isn't about "sucking it up." Clearly you have no idea what the symptoms of the disorder include. This is not an issue with "willpower."

x Sarnath x

But all these options are available, so it gets the people who are prone to that kind of thinking all riled up.

Prove that being "riled up" is the cause and motivation of transition.

x Sarnath x

Do you think people worried about this stuff 100 years ago before these "treatments" came out? Nope. They just went on with life.

Living as their desired gender, without surgeries. Billy Tipton, James Barry, Albert Cashier, to name a few.

[Captain Verd]

Olya

Do you feel the same way when someone you sleep with does not disclose being HIV positive? Should he/she wear a sign saying HIV? I have no problem telling people I am a woman. Why should someone have a problem telling people he/she is trans? Is it something to be ashamed of?

One of those qualities is a p***s.

...it's easy, without too much fooling, to pass for cultured in our ranks.

Because GID isn't like dyslexia, for example. People are likely to be met with negative reactions or even violence because of who they are physically. You're asking these people to put themselves in harm's way so you personally can feel better about talking to them.

[Syndactyly]

x Sarnath x

I would rather live with a mental disorder than go through dangerous, painful surgery when I don't really need it.
Some people would do anything to be healthy. =/ I don't see why people put themselves through all this. Surely there must be some other way.

Define "need."

Define "healthy."

Gender dysphoria, by my definition of healthy, is certainly not healthy. As far as the APA sees it, there is no other way.

[Rosetta Celestine]

Olya

Rosetta Celestine

Olya

Rosetta Celestine

I think "illusion" is kind of a rude word to use. What if the guy never claimed to not be trans?

Also, if he looks, walks, and acts like a man, why is he not a man?

We all meandered through our schooling haphazard; so, to God be thanks,

Because his chromosomes read XY. He can be male, but not a man.

Also, how is omitting that fact any better. If he knows I'll take him for a man unless he tells me, is that not deceiving?

...it's easy, without too much fooling, to pass for cultured in our ranks.

So he's suppose to where a sign around his neck telling everyone he has a v****a?

Also, you don't see their chromosomes. You just see qualities that we used to differentiate genders. Gender-wise he's a man since he is indistinguishable from any other man.

We all meandered through our schooling haphazard; so, to God be thanks,

Do you feel the same way when someone you sleep with does not disclose being HIV positive? Should he/she wear a sign saying HIV? I have no problem telling people I am a woman. Why should someone have a problem telling people he/she is trans? Is it something to be ashamed of?

One of those qualities is a p***s.

...it's easy, without too much fooling, to pass for cultured in our ranks.

Lol, transsexuality isn't contagious.

[Syndactyly]

x Sarnath x

Rosetta Celestine

x Sarnath x

Captain Verd

I suppose that, according to Olya, a person who does not tell you about how much they like broccoli the very first time they meet you is actually lying to you about their affinity for broccoli. Fiend! They should not be tolerated.

It's a lot different. You aren't going to be pursuing a romantic relationship based on broccoli.
Not all people are okay with that sort of thing. Some people are straight and would be disgusted with the idea of dating someone that was a "transsexual."

Now why the hell did you put the word transsexual in quotations?

Because maybe these people have a problem totally unrelated to "sex" or "gender." It's a deeply rooted psychological thing, and there are other ways to deal with it.

My mom says the exact same ******** thing. But never justifies it. Let's see if you can:

1) What sort of psychological problems would lead to this sort of "radical" decision?
2) What about the transsexuals who don't have those psychological problems? How do you explain them away?

[Captain Verd]

Olya

It is impossible to truly love someone without knowing those core things.

Everyone has different ideas on what true love is. I guess I won't bother to debate this point with you, since my ideas and yours appear to be radically different.

Quote:

frankly, if I wanted a woman, I'd ask my best friend out.

Again, for the sake of clarity and the debate, a transsexual female should generally be called a man, and a transsexual male generally female. Mixing the two up is going to lead to COUNTLESS posts from different people correcting your terminology.