Why all drugs should be legalized, and PRODUCED.

[Ratreoz]

BinaNeko

Seriously? Its because of our free will we need laws. If we didnt have them, we would be like animals. Killing each other, raping each other, beating each other up.

Ridiculous.

Quote:

What you are saying makes no sense, i see drug addicts all the time, they are ******** up, their lives are ruined. Why the hell would any government allow that to happen?

Governments should of course deal with such issues, but in case you haven't noticed the current "War on Drugs" is a complete disaster.
Your solution to drug addicts with ruined lives is to punish them. Unsurprisingly that doesn't actually work (besides being immoral).

[Anakinia]

Ratreoz

BinaNeko

Seriously? Its because of our free will we need laws. If we didnt have them, we would be like animals. Killing each other, raping each other, beating each other up.

Ridiculous.

So without laws what would we do? Do you think we are all born kind and full of "good morals"? No.

Quote:

What you are saying makes no sense, i see drug addicts all the time, they are ******** up, their lives are ruined. Why the hell would any government allow that to happen?

Governments should of course deal with such issues, but in case you haven't noticed the current "War on Drugs" is a complete disaster.
Your solution to drug addicts with ruined lives is to punish them. Unsurprisingly that doesn't actually work (besides being immoral).

Lmao. Dont you sit there and act like you know a s**t about me. Saying i want to punish them is just arrogant and childish. My solution is absolutely not to punish them.
If one was to make drugs legal, it would ******** up alot. Everyone would get high or whatever. No matter how legal a drug is, it is still very addictive.

[Anakinia]

I SAY STUFF

BinaNeko

Ratreoz

BinaNeko

Seriously? Its because of our free will we need laws. If we didnt have them, we would be like animals. Killing each other, raping each other, beating each other up.

Ridiculous.

So without laws what would we do? Do you think we are all born kind and full of "good morals"? No.

Quote:

What you are saying makes no sense, i see drug addicts all the time, they are ******** up, their lives are ruined. Why the hell would any government allow that to happen?

Governments should of course deal with such issues, but in case you haven't noticed the current "War on Drugs" is a complete disaster.
Your solution to drug addicts with ruined lives is to punish them. Unsurprisingly that doesn't actually work (besides being immoral).

Lmao. Dont you sit there and act like you know a s**t about me. Saying i want to punish them is just arrogant and childish. My solution is absolutely not to punish them.
If one was to make drugs legal, it would ******** up alot. Everyone would get high or whatever. No matter how legal a drug is, it is still very addictive.

ED is a troll forum. It's best to ignore it.

Good trolls apparantly :p

[Ratreoz]

BinaNeko

Lmao. Dont you sit there and act like you know a s**t about me. Saying i want to punish them is just arrogant and childish. My solution is absolutely not to punish them.

Oh, I'm sorry. I was under the impression that you support criminalisation of drug possession.
Pray tell, what is your solution?

Quote:

If one was to make drugs legal, it would ******** up alot.

So you do think possession of drugs should be illegal (which results in punishing addicts). I'm a bit confused now. Could you elaborate?

Quote:

Everyone would get high or whatever. No matter how legal a drug is, it is still very addictive.

Oh, that is very interesting. Please tell me more of this hidden knowledge that completely contradicts the available facts. (Hint: Not all drugs are addictive and legalising does not result in everyone using drugs [not that there would necessarily be anything wrong with that])

[Anakinia]

Ratreoz

BinaNeko

Lmao. Dont you sit there and act like you know a s**t about me. Saying i want to punish them is just arrogant and childish. My solution is absolutely not to punish them.

Oh, I'm sorry. I was under the impression that you support criminalisation of drug possession.
Pray tell, what is your solution?

Make drugs legal for certain individuals, under supervision.

Quote:

If one was to make drugs legal, it would ******** up alot.

So you do think possession of drugs should be illegal (which results in punishing addicts). I'm a bit confused now. Could you elaborate?

Yes it should be illegal. Nothing more to elaborate. Commiting a crime is commiting a crime.

Quote:

Everyone would get high or whatever. No matter how legal a drug is, it is still very addictive.

Oh, that is very interesting. Please tell me more of this hidden knowledge that completely contradicts the available facts. (Hint: Not all drugs are addictive and legalising does not result in everyone using drugs [not that there would necessarily be anything wrong with that])

Op said all drugs, which means cocaine, heroine, meth etc. I am pretty sure those drugs are addicting. Making drugs legal would means alot of people would use this stuff on a regular basis. And so more people would get addicted.

What will the marketprice be by the way? I am assuming you though about this, cause if you didnt, there may be consequenses that you might notnwould have wanted. People demand drugs, drug costs money, some people have no money. How do they get it? Or maybe the government should fund peoples drughabits? Not like they dont fund enough already.

[Riviera de la Mancha]

Ratreoz

Riviera de la Mancha

Ratreoz

Riviera de la Mancha

I saw only one argument, and its the classic stoner argument; "Like, I totally have, like, free will, so why come the government can like tell me to not smoke? Now where did my scooby snax go...".

Same reason the government can regulate drunk drivers- they present risks to the community. Tweekers and their kind present risks to the community, even when on 'pure' forms of their drugs.

How does a psilocybin user present risks to society?

Depends on what form we are talking here. You talkin shrooms or LSD?

LSD is not psilocybin, so the former, though I'd be willing to argue the case for both.

Quote:

As stupid as shroom use is personally, I can get that its not the worst in the world and can see expanding its uses to even work as a kind of medicine, which would take it off of the Title 1 list of drugs. Its not the possibility for negative emotional states in people if used in high does, and that is certainly problematic, but I would be willing to at least entertain the idea of legalizing them.

How is it stupid?

Note: Your approach is a** backwards. The default position should be legalisation.

Quote:

LCD? No way- last thing we need is a bunch of risky sex going about and all the problems that entails.

... What?!
I assume you meant to write "LSD". In that case I will point out that the effects of psilocybin and LSD are nearly identical and neither lead to risky sex, but even if you weren't hilariously mistaken you would have to favour the prohibition of alcohol as well to be consistent.

Its stupid in the same way all drug use is stupid to me. However, I recognize that, if there are minimal risks to something, and all that remains is that I think its stupid, I get that that is not a fair reason to legalize something.

Note: No, I dont.

LCD certainly does due to the culture that surrounds it. And, if alcohol had a culture of abuse instead of something that the lion's share of us use just fine, I would agree. However, on a personal level, I dont even much get why people drink alcohol as well.

[Ratreoz]

BinaNeko

Make drugs legal for certain individuals, under supervision.
Yes it should be illegal. Nothing more to elaborate. Commiting a crime is commiting a crime.

So you are unwilling to justify your opinion that my personal freedom should be restricted.
Nice.
And a tautology is a tautology. Point?

Quote:

Op said all drugs, which means cocaine, heroine, meth etc. I am pretty sure those drugs are addicting. Making drugs legal would means alot of people would use this stuff on a regular basis. And so more people would get addicted.

And you fail to make the distinction between addictive and non-addictive drugs; Simply stating that all drugs should be illegal. Do you understand why I object to that? Do you think non-addictive drugs (i.e. DMT, psilocybin, LSD, mescaline et.c.) should be illegal?

Most drugs (especially those that are addictive) are already readily available. What makes you think more people would use drugs if they were legalised?
Would you be doing heroin if it was legal?

By the way, it is possible to legalise something, but simultaneously regulate sale. My primary concern (from a moral standpoint) is that people who need help are punished for possession. Do you think it is right to do so?

Quote:

What will the marketprice be by the way? I am assuming you though about this, cause if you didnt, there may be consequenses that you might notnwould have wanted. People demand drugs, drug costs money, some people have no money. How do they get it? Or maybe the government should fund peoples drughabits? Not like they dont fund enough already.

The market price would obviously be controlled by the market.
People with no money would obviously not be able to indulge in such things, just like people with no money currently can't eat ice cream every day (though some monthly quota of ice cream really should be a human right).

[Ratreoz]

Riviera de la Mancha

Its stupid in the same way all drug use is stupid to me. However, I recognize that, if there are minimal risks to something, and all that remains is that I think its stupid, I get that that is not a fair reason to legalize something.

Note: No, I dont.

LCD certainly does due to the culture that surrounds it. And, if alcohol had a culture of abuse instead of something that the lion's share of us use just fine, I would agree. However, on a personal level, I dont even much get why people drink alcohol as well.

How is it stupid?

You don't what?

You obviously have never been under the influence of LSD. You are suffering from some unfounded preconceptions. LSD is not addictive and is, in fact, generally not harmful (and does not lead to risky sex, or even sex at all, despite what you may have heard). I'm not even quite sure what it would mean to abuse LSD.
Your claim that there is no culture of alcohol abuse is rather amusing.

[Riviera de la Mancha]

Ratreoz

Riviera de la Mancha

Its stupid in the same way all drug use is stupid to me. However, I recognize that, if there are minimal risks to something, and all that remains is that I think its stupid, I get that that is not a fair reason to legalize something.

Note: No, I dont.

LCD certainly does due to the culture that surrounds it. And, if alcohol had a culture of abuse instead of something that the lion's share of us use just fine, I would agree. However, on a personal level, I dont even much get why people drink alcohol as well.

How is it stupid?

You don't what?

You obviously have never been under the influence of LSD. You are suffering from some unfounded preconceptions. LSD is not addictive and is, in fact, generally not harmful (and does not lead to risky sex, or even sex at all, despite what you may have heard). I'm not even quite sure what it would mean to abuse LSD.
Your claim that there is no culture of alcohol abuse is rather amusing.

Number of things make it stupid to me- first, I can think of about a million other things I can do with time than ingest a poison and call it 'recreational'. The high screams to me of escapism, and I dislike escapism generally. It brings people around others who are generally slackers and people without direction. And finally, the 'insight' druggies claim to get is not only usually vapid, but ones I can come to free of a drug. Not to mention whatever I realize I lay claim to instead of having to face the fact that I came to some conclusion because of a drug.

I never claimed LSD was addictive. And the culture around LSD says otherwise- the groups who use LSD the most are persons who do so with the idea of enhancing sexual experiences. And please, pay attention- I said, "...if alcohol had a culture of abuse instead of something that the lion's share of us use just fine, I would agree.". While there are people who abuse it, the general consumption of it is not nor is it done that harms people generally.

[Ratreoz]

Riviera de la Mancha

Number of things make it stupid to me- first, I can think of about a million other things I can do with time than ingest a poison and call it 'recreational'. The high screams to me of escapism, and I dislike escapism generally. It brings people around others who are generally slackers and people without direction. And finally, the 'insight' druggies claim to get is not only usually vapid, but ones I can come to free of a drug. Not to mention whatever I realize I lay claim to instead of having to face the fact that I came to some conclusion because of a drug.

They are not poison and their toxicity is very low (only slightly higher than caffeine in the case of psilocybin).

So you don't play video games, watch TV/films, et.c.

Drugs can help with personal development (there are some studies on this, including a recent one which showed that people who take psilocybin become better people). How does the involvement of a chemical make that any less significant?

Personally it is like a hobby. It is like going to a theme park and taking a ride on the roller coaster. Your characterisation of it as stupid, along with your silly rationalisations, indicates to me that you are prejudiced.

Quote:

I never claimed LSD was addictive. And the culture around LSD says otherwise- the groups who use LSD the most are persons who do so with the idea of enhancing sexual experiences.

I have never encountered this culture you speak of. I can't imagine sex on LSD being comfortable. I recall a friend once telling me that he tried, but couldn't even handle the kissing part.
I'd like some sources.

[Riviera de la Mancha]

Ratreoz

Riviera de la Mancha

Number of things make it stupid to me- first, I can think of about a million other things I can do with time than ingest a poison and call it 'recreational'. The high screams to me of escapism, and I dislike escapism generally. It brings people around others who are generally slackers and people without direction. And finally, the 'insight' druggies claim to get is not only usually vapid, but ones I can come to free of a drug. Not to mention whatever I realize I lay claim to instead of having to face the fact that I came to some conclusion because of a drug.

They are not poison and their toxicity is very low (only slightly higher than caffeine in the case of psilocybin).

So you don't play video games, watch TV/films, et.c.

Drugs can help with personal development (there are some studies on this, including a recent one which showed that people who take psilocybin become better people). How does the involvement of a chemical make that any less significant?

Personally it is like a hobby. It is like going to a theme park and taking a ride on the roller coaster. Your characterisation of it as stupid, along with your silly rationalisations, indicates to me that you are prejudiced.

Quote:

I never claimed LSD was addictive. And the culture around LSD says otherwise- the groups who use LSD the most are persons who do so with the idea of enhancing sexual experiences.

I have never encountered this culture you speak of. I can't imagine sex on LSD being comfortable. I recall a friend once telling me that he tried, but couldn't even handle the kissing part.
I'd like some sources.

My point is that I dont use those to escape from problems or issues in my life. Drug users time and again tell me how they use the drug to mellow out or get away from the stresses of life. I say learn to deal with those stresses. I play games, but not as some need to run from a mid-term due or to duck out of a grant deadline. I play games because I like them, not because I need to run.

And that's my point- if I am to become a better person, I want to own that personal growth and development, not owe it to some drug I took. Its the personal equivalent of taking steroids if you are an athlete. You dont own that medal or trophy if you took steroids- the drug does. That is why athletes get awards taken away or asterisks next to their records.

Funny thing- you calling my reasons stupid doesnt make them stupid. And for someone who claims I am prejudiced, you seemed to gloss over where I said that, while I think its stupid, I dont think that is grounds alone to stop discussions about possibly legalizing some drugs.

Go to a rave, or google raves and LSD.

[Physiqual]

Riviera de la Mancha

~Melesha~

Riviera de la Mancha

~Melesha~

Riviera de la Mancha

I saw only one argument, and its the classic stoner argument; "Like, I totally have, like, free will, so why come the government can like tell me to not smoke? Now where did my scooby snax go...".

Same reason the government can regulate drunk drivers- they present risks to the community. Tweekers and their kind present risks to the community, even when on 'pure' forms of their drugs.

That's quite a lopsided view. How is obesity, or sex not a risk to communities? We don't outlaw sugar, condoms, birth contraception, or anything else.

Quite frankly, there should be no reason why basic natural poisons are completely legal, yet something that gets you high is. And realize that the stereotypes of tweakers, were invented because of Americans being forced to use such strong chemicals, which in turn are the reasons for most effects. Drunks aren't a concern for communities? I can certainly do a lot more to harm people when I'm drunk, than tweaked. lol

Yeah Shaggy- the day you can prove to me that the average fat man is like to go on a rampage like a dude on PCP or that the guy who gets strange on the regular is as likely to wreck a car as a guy behind the wheel on a crack high, then I will take you seriously.

And pro-tip there cheech- medicines, especially prescription drugs, are heavily regulated.

Are you high now? Drunks are a huge concern. Where do you get the idea that they are not?

Since when did I condone driving under any substances?

You didnt. I never claimed you did.

I bring that up because for every hippie out there who is all, "But like, dude, I like, totally use responsibly!" there is at least two other rubes who dont and think its okay to get behind the wheel of a car high or some other equally stupid thing. Hell, we are still having issues with drunk driving and how many of us have had it beaten into us that that is not kosher? We cant even keep drinking as controlled as we should, so I cant support tossing in more substances whole sale into the mix of legal drugs people will use irresponsibly and increase property damage and deaths in the process.

As I expressed to another poster, I can see conversations on some stuff, like weed and some shrooms for instance, but I will never ever be sold on the idea that we ought to legalize PCP and the like. I have had to twice deal with people on PCP in my neighborhood, and I wont support legalizing that or any other hard drug.

'

If someone is willing to drive under the influence high or drunk, they're going to do it legally or not. More prone to do it that that they're illegal.

BinaNeko

~Melesha~

* We were born into a world where we're blessed to have free will. I don't understand why a MAN MADE system can tell me what I can and cannot ingest. Nor, do I understand why one man can "own" a part of mother nature, or land. We don't try to OWN time, so why do we seem to want to e

This made your whole post invalid.

Seriously? Its because of our free will we need laws. If we didnt have them, we would be like animals. Killing each other, raping each other, beating each other up.
What you are saying makes no sense, i see drug addicts all the time, they are ******** up, their lives are ruined. Why the hell would any government allow that to happen?

You must have taken too much acid while watching the new justin timberlake movie about time.
We take land because we can, we cannot control time, and its not as if they have not tried. You have to work to live, time spent. You can get surgery, pills etc etc, years taken back. At least we think we get it back.

That is inflicting dangers onto other people, not once did I say should we be able to freely damage other peoples lives.

Quote:

So you do think possession of drugs should be illegal (which results in punishing addicts). I'm a bit confused now. Could you elaborate?

Yes it should be illegal. Nothing more to elaborate. Commiting a crime is commiting a crime.

I suppose we should resort to third world country laws, where woman should be whored, than circumcised when she hits adult hood. I mean, it shouldn't matter how ridiculous the crime or punishment, it's still a law, right?

Do you realize how many 'drug' related people get arrested, and thrown in jail, wasting tax dollars, just for doing nothing but distributing, or doing? How many people die because they overdose, and no one wants to risk getting arrested taking them to the ER? It's a sad, sad world.

[Physiqual]

Riviera de la Mancha

Ratreoz

Riviera de la Mancha

Its stupid in the same way all drug use is stupid to me. However, I recognize that, if there are minimal risks to something, and all that remains is that I think its stupid, I get that that is not a fair reason to legalize something.

Note: No, I dont.

LCD certainly does due to the culture that surrounds it. And, if alcohol had a culture of abuse instead of something that the lion's share of us use just fine, I would agree. However, on a personal level, I dont even much get why people drink alcohol as well.

How is it stupid?

You don't what?

You obviously have never been under the influence of LSD. You are suffering from some unfounded preconceptions. LSD is not addictive and is, in fact, generally not harmful (and does not lead to risky sex, or even sex at all, despite what you may have heard). I'm not even quite sure what it would mean to abuse LSD.
Your claim that there is no culture of alcohol abuse is rather amusing.

Number of things make it stupid to me- first, I can think of about a million other things I can do with time than ingest a poison and call it 'recreational'. The high screams to me of escapism, and I dislike escapism generally. It brings people around others who are generally slackers and people without direction. And finally, the 'insight' druggies claim to get is not only usually vapid, but ones I can come to free of a drug. Not to mention whatever I realize I lay claim to instead of having to face the fact that I came to some conclusion because of a drug.

I never claimed LSD was addictive. And the culture around LSD says otherwise- the groups who use LSD the most are persons who do so with the idea of enhancing sexual experiences. And please, pay attention- I said, "...if alcohol had a culture of abuse instead of something that the lion's share of us use just fine, I would agree.". While there are people who abuse it, the general consumption of it is not nor is it done that harms people generally.

Meth, is just a mental addiction, like weed or psychedelics. While you don't want to waste your time, my ADHD has gotten so bad to the point in order to even work a 4 hour shift at Macy's, I have to shoot up. I get anxious, and antsy, and I don't know how to stop myself from panicking.

Self medication, while maybe not a great idea, is the only way I can balance workign and going to school. Among the fact, that I've been GAINING weight, because of how it effects me.

Who are you to say what I can waste my time on? Why can the Westboro Baptist Church waste so much time on a very judgmental campaign, but an american can't shoot, snort, or smoke whatever they like? It's just the same, an addiction.