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I saw only one argument, and its the classic stoner argument; "Like, I totally have, like, free will, so why come the government can like tell me to not smoke? Now where did my scooby snax go...".

Same reason the government can regulate drunk drivers- they present risks to the community. Tweekers and their kind present risks to the community, even when on 'pure' forms of their drugs.


That's quite a lopsided view. How is obesity, or sex not a risk to communities? We don't outlaw sugar, condoms, birth contraception, or anything else.

Quite frankly, there should be no reason why basic natural poisons are completely legal, yet something that gets you high is. And realize that the stereotypes of tweakers, were invented because of Americans being forced to use such strong chemicals, which in turn are the reasons for most effects. Drunks aren't a concern for communities? I can certainly do a lot more to harm people when I'm drunk, than tweaked. lol


condoms and birth control are what makes sex less risky for people so why would we outlaw them? and how is obesity a risk to anyone other than the person who is obese?


Obesity actually has a huge economical impact on our nation. Healthcare, food, medication...
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The fact remains Drug use can (and often do) lead to abuse and harm, and that potential is justification for it's banning.

However before you say something benign or ridiculous such as "Well Cars can kill people, should we outlaw them?"

No because the potential for danger is staggeringly small compared to there average use to make the danger negliable.

As compared to say...Meth.


Well, lets be honest then, banning drugs doesn't stop drug abuse. The issue with the banning them because they have the potential to cause harm, is it's implying that banning drugs is a strong enough measure to stop abuse. It's not, and the historical data reflects this. Making drugs illegal hasn't worked at stopping drug abuse. Drugs are more prevalent, and cheaper, then ever before. Abuse is rampant, and we don't have the programs in place to mitigate it. Lets look at cigarette smoking, despite being legal the rate of people smoking has dropped dramatically since the 60's. People aren't stupid, and thinking that government banning something is going to restrict access or demand has shown not to work when it comes to drugs.

I would rather have drugs legalized, and instead of spending as much as we do on incarceration and effectively trying to limit the supply (which has failed) focus on things like rehabilitation clinics, and other better targeted abuse prevention programs.
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IF someone wants to work and pay taxes like everyone else, but tends to do meth, or coke, or heroin, on the side, what's the harm?

It harms themselve, it harms other around them.

Quote:
Someone who uses and abuses, shouldn't be given leway, regardless of what for. If it's drugs or not, I have not once spent a dime of my parents money on drugs, One, I don't want to say it's for food, and not spend it on food, and two, addicts lie and hide, I don't. Therefore, not engaging in addict behavior will prevent me from acting like an addict. My dad knows I shoot up, and he knows I spend my free money on it.

Good for you , you are a rare case, which does not reflect the majority of Drug users.
And should be in Jail.

The fact remains Drug use can (and often do) lead to abuse and harm, and that potential is justification for it's banning.

However before you say something benign or ridiculous such as "Well Cars can kill people, should we outlaw them?"

No because the potential for danger is staggeringly small compared to there average use to make the danger negliable.

As compared to say...Meth.

Quote:
I still buy groceries, and pay for our cellphones, why would he care if I shoot up occasionally? I don't leave needs and bags everywhere in sight, as long as I keep to myself and don't cause a disturbance, he doesn't care. Which is why I don't invite dealers or users over, because of the fact they probably don't have enough self control. Mind over matter, son. wink


Congratulations, you are a rare case of self control.
You should be in jail.
You indulge in a illegal activity, with great potential to harm your body and mind, the potential to spiral out of control, which funds crime at all levels.


Never said I shouldn't be in jail. Anyone who does anything illegal, should be jailed, regardless of if it's justified or not.

As for well being, drugs mentally stimulate people. Love, which is exactly what meth replicates, does as much damage and stress as the drug.


Yes but Love doesn't fry your brain, damage your internal organs and wreck your basic functions.


Oh, but it can. People will engage in actions they wouldn't normally do, because of love. People will kill, steal, and do things to be with, or protect the one they love. Now if people were ra
tional, that might not be the case, as with addicts.


See my statement on likelyhood of this happening compared to the norm.

Love can occasionally cause extreme reactions in a startlingly minority of individuals.
As compared to illigial substances which have a very very high chance of causing said harm.

Furthermore Love is an inbuilt natural characteristic, part of who we are and how we function.
Meth is not.

By your ridiculous argument, we shouldn't have children because there is a small chance they could be borne retarded or crippled.
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The fact remains Drug use can (and often do) lead to abuse and harm, and that potential is justification for it's banning.

However before you say something benign or ridiculous such as "Well Cars can kill people, should we outlaw them?"

No because the potential for danger is staggeringly small compared to there average use to make the danger negliable.

As compared to say...Meth.


Well, lets be honest then, banning drugs doesn't stop drug abuse. The issue with the banning them because they have the potential to cause harm, is it's implying that banning drugs is a strong enough measure to stop abuse. It's not, and the historical data reflects this. Making drugs illegal hasn't worked at stopping drug abuse. Drugs are more prevalent, and cheaper, then ever before. Abuse is rampant, and we don't have the programs in place to mitigate it. Lets look at cigarette smoking, despite being legal the rate of people smoking has dropped dramatically since the 60's. People aren't stupid, and thinking that government banning something is going to restrict access or demand has shown not to work when it comes to drugs.

I would rather have drugs legalized, and instead of spending as much as we do on incarceration and effectively trying to limit the supply (which has failed) focus on things like rehabilitation clinics, and other better targeted abuse prevention programs.


Once you Legalize something, you are saying that it's ok to do it, and that the thing you are legalizing is moral or correct.

Drug use is not...so you should not legalize.
Complex Systems's avatar

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The fact remains Drug use can (and often do) lead to abuse and harm, and that potential is justification for it's banning.

However before you say something benign or ridiculous such as "Well Cars can kill people, should we outlaw them?"

No because the potential for danger is staggeringly small compared to there average use to make the danger negliable.

As compared to say...Meth.


Well, lets be honest then, banning drugs doesn't stop drug abuse. The issue with the banning them because they have the potential to cause harm, is it's implying that banning drugs is a strong enough measure to stop abuse. It's not, and the historical data reflects this. Making drugs illegal hasn't worked at stopping drug abuse. Drugs are more prevalent, and cheaper, then ever before. Abuse is rampant, and we don't have the programs in place to mitigate it. Lets look at cigarette smoking, despite being legal the rate of people smoking has dropped dramatically since the 60's. People aren't stupid, and thinking that government banning something is going to restrict access or demand has shown not to work when it comes to drugs.

I would rather have drugs legalized, and instead of spending as much as we do on incarceration and effectively trying to limit the supply (which has failed) focus on things like rehabilitation clinics, and other better targeted abuse prevention programs.


Once you Legalize something, you are saying that it's ok to do it, and that the thing you are legalizing is moral or correct.

Drug use is not...so you should not legalize.


We have legalized guns, I don't think we condone mass killing. Abortion is legal, but there is a huge cultural stigma and backlash against it. So no, just because something is "legal" doesn't mean think it's "okay to do it." Legislating morality is some of the worst things people can do. Legislation should be done for pragmatic reasons as a way to improve society (in my opinion). Otherwise we have all sorts of moral claims we can claim the government should impose on society- many of which I would oppose.

Drugs by themselves aren't bad, it's drug abuse and some of the externalities that they cause that society has decided are bad. Creating policies that mitigate those is certainly possible within the framework of legalization.
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I like the way you think, OP.
Think of all the gang violence that would end in countries like Mexico, Columbia, and Bolivia if we legalized drugs. Think of how much the use of drugs would actually drop (yes, countries who legalize all drugs report drug use falling, not rising: see Portugal) if we legalized drugs.
Most importantly, think of all the damn money countries would save if we didn't have to enforce drug laws. Maybe we could spend that money on, gee, I dunno, educating the youth about how unhealthy drugs are? And NOT using scare tactics, but actual, tangible information to get the point across?
Oneiro Itane
I like the way you think, OP.
Think of all the gang violence that would end in countries like Mexico, Columbia, and Bolivia if we legalized drugs. Think of how much the use of drugs would actually drop (yes, countries who legalize all drugs report drug use falling, not rising: see Portugal) if we legalized drugs.
Most importantly, think of all the damn money countries would save if we didn't have to enforce drug laws. Maybe we could spend that money on, gee, I dunno, educating the youth about how unhealthy drugs are? And NOT using scare tactics, but actual, tangible information to get the point across?


Precisely, just because I'm a user, does not mean I think everyone in the country should be. People , as a genetic flaw want to try what's restricted and what's taboo. Underage drinking is a huge problem, but not because drinking is really even all that fun.
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The fact remains Drug use can (and often do) lead to abuse and harm, and that potential is justification for it's banning.

However before you say something benign or ridiculous such as "Well Cars can kill people, should we outlaw them?"

No because the potential for danger is staggeringly small compared to there average use to make the danger negliable.

As compared to say...Meth.


Well, lets be honest then, banning drugs doesn't stop drug abuse. The issue with the banning them because they have the potential to cause harm, is it's implying that banning drugs is a strong enough measure to stop abuse. It's not, and the historical data reflects this. Making drugs illegal hasn't worked at stopping drug abuse. Drugs are more prevalent, and cheaper, then ever before. Abuse is rampant, and we don't have the programs in place to mitigate it. Lets look at cigarette smoking, despite being legal the rate of people smoking has dropped dramatically since the 60's. People aren't stupid, and thinking that government banning something is going to restrict access or demand has shown not to work when it comes to drugs.

I would rather have drugs legalized, and instead of spending as much as we do on incarceration and effectively trying to limit the supply (which has failed) focus on things like rehabilitation clinics, and other better targeted abuse prevention programs.


Once you Legalize something, you are saying that it's ok to do it, and that the thing you are legalizing is moral or correct.

Drug use is not...so you should not legalize.


I've heard nothing but a biased view from you. This is supposed to be a country or "world" where we can have all kinds of views, regardless of how extreme or lopsided. I think anyone has any right to do whatever they want to their body, harmful or not. Just because you don't have the same view, don't try to restrict mine, or change mine. As, I'm not doing it upon you.

The entire world thinks their right, some of us are, most of us aren't, but there isn't anything moral about changing everyone's right to do it. The government was put into place so we can thrive and survive without immediate danger, not to give us morals, or a popular point of view. Gay marriage is illegal, are the gays immoral? Maybe, depending on the person. But unless we want an entire biased government, that can vary from extreme catholic, to the ability to kill or rob abyone legally. Now, let's be progressing mature adults and think about this. Should the government tell us it's illegal to go around bodying everyone? Yes, should they tell us what our passtime should be? No.

Some people have games, religions, sports, or drugs. If something really interests us that much, it's up to us to decide if it's worth it, and what the risks are. ALL of those have risks, and drugs aren't the biggest hobby that have the biggest risks. Most people use drugs because they have pain, some don't. Someone needs good help for the former, though, and they might not seek it because it's too difficult with the risk to be criticized and crucified.
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The fact remains Drug use can (and often do) lead to abuse and harm, and that potential is justification for it's banning.

However before you say something benign or ridiculous such as "Well Cars can kill people, should we outlaw them?"

No because the potential for danger is staggeringly small compared to there average use to make the danger negliable.

As compared to say...Meth.


Well, lets be honest then, banning drugs doesn't stop drug abuse. The issue with the banning them because they have the potential to cause harm, is it's implying that banning drugs is a strong enough measure to stop abuse. It's not, and the historical data reflects this. Making drugs illegal hasn't worked at stopping drug abuse. Drugs are more prevalent, and cheaper, then ever before. Abuse is rampant, and we don't have the programs in place to mitigate it. Lets look at cigarette smoking, despite being legal the rate of people smoking has dropped dramatically since the 60's. People aren't stupid, and thinking that government banning something is going to restrict access or demand has shown not to work when it comes to drugs.

I would rather have drugs legalized, and instead of spending as much as we do on incarceration and effectively trying to limit the supply (which has failed) focus on things like rehabilitation clinics, and other better targeted abuse prevention programs.


Once you Legalize something, you are saying that it's ok to do it, and that the thing you are legalizing is moral or correct.

Drug use is not...so you should not legalize.


We have legalized guns,

I think it does.
I think Americans are retarded for allowing the common person to carry arms.
Quote:
Abortion is legal, but there is a huge cultural stigma and backlash against it.

And should be Illega

Quote:
l. So no, just because something is "legal" doesn't mean think it's "okay to do it."

You have given no example otherweise, Abortion is Legal..so people do it and have no penalty.
Gun Ownership is legal, so people own guns..with no penalty.

Quote:
Legislating morality is some of the worst things people can do. Legislation should be done for pragmatic reasons as a way to improve society (in my opinion). Otherwise we have all sorts of moral claims we can claim the government should impose on society- many of which I would oppose.

Tough

Quote:
Drugs by themselves aren't bad, it's drug abuse and some of the externalities that they cause that society has decided are bad. Creating policies that mitigate those is certainly possible within the framework of legalization.

I disagree
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The fact remains Drug use can (and often do) lead to abuse and harm, and that potential is justification for it's banning.

However before you say something benign or ridiculous such as "Well Cars can kill people, should we outlaw them?"

No because the potential for danger is staggeringly small compared to there average use to make the danger negliable.

As compared to say...Meth.


Well, lets be honest then, banning drugs doesn't stop drug abuse. The issue with the banning them because they have the potential to cause harm, is it's implying that banning drugs is a strong enough measure to stop abuse. It's not, and the historical data reflects this. Making drugs illegal hasn't worked at stopping drug abuse. Drugs are more prevalent, and cheaper, then ever before. Abuse is rampant, and we don't have the programs in place to mitigate it. Lets look at cigarette smoking, despite being legal the rate of people smoking has dropped dramatically since the 60's. People aren't stupid, and thinking that government banning something is going to restrict access or demand has shown not to work when it comes to drugs.

I would rather have drugs legalized, and instead of spending as much as we do on incarceration and effectively trying to limit the supply (which has failed) focus on things like rehabilitation clinics, and other better targeted abuse prevention programs.


Once you Legalize something, you are saying that it's ok to do it, and that the thing you are legalizing is moral or correct.

Drug use is not...so you should not legalize.


Quote:
I've heard nothing but a biased view from you
.
Imagine that..someone with personal bias, based on there opinions and experiances.
Dun dun dunnnnnnnnnnnn

Quote:
This is supposed to be a country or "world" where we can have all kinds of views, regardless of how extreme or lopsided. I think anyone has any right to do whatever they want to their body, harmful or not. Just because you don't have the same view, don't try to restrict mine, or change mine. As, I'm not doing it upon you.

Here we encounter a problem, you say we should all be entiled to opinions and views.

Well my view is you shouldn't be entitled to yours and that restrictions should be placed upon you.

We can't all get along, not all views can live happily ever after side by side.
In such circumstances one has to come out on top.
I would very much prefer it, if it were mine and your view was curtailed in whatever manner is best suited.

Quote:
The entire world thinks their right, some of us are, most of us aren't, but there isn't anything moral about changing everyone's right to do it. The

Yes there is.

Quote:
government was put into place so we can thrive and survive without immediate danger, not to give us morals, or a popular point of view.

If you honestly belive what you have just said.
Your probably beyond help anyway.

Quote:
Gay marriage is illegal, are the gays immoral?

Yes
Quote:
Maybe, depending on the person. But unless we want an entire biased government, that can vary from extreme catholic, to the ability to kill or rob abyone legally. Now, let's be progressing mature adults and think about this. Should the government tell us it's illegal to go around bodying everyone? Yes, should they tell us what our passtime should be? No.

I "do" want a bias government.

And I do think the government has a place in legislating what our passtimes should be.
If those passtimes are harmful to ourselves and others.
Which drug use is.
Complex Systems's avatar

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The fact remains Drug use can (and often do) lead to abuse and harm, and that potential is justification for it's banning.

However before you say something benign or ridiculous such as "Well Cars can kill people, should we outlaw them?"

No because the potential for danger is staggeringly small compared to there average use to make the danger negliable.

As compared to say...Meth.


Well, lets be honest then, banning drugs doesn't stop drug abuse. The issue with the banning them because they have the potential to cause harm, is it's implying that banning drugs is a strong enough measure to stop abuse. It's not, and the historical data reflects this. Making drugs illegal hasn't worked at stopping drug abuse. Drugs are more prevalent, and cheaper, then ever before. Abuse is rampant, and we don't have the programs in place to mitigate it. Lets look at cigarette smoking, despite being legal the rate of people smoking has dropped dramatically since the 60's. People aren't stupid, and thinking that government banning something is going to restrict access or demand has shown not to work when it comes to drugs.

I would rather have drugs legalized, and instead of spending as much as we do on incarceration and effectively trying to limit the supply (which has failed) focus on things like rehabilitation clinics, and other better targeted abuse prevention programs.


Once you Legalize something, you are saying that it's ok to do it, and that the thing you are legalizing is moral or correct.

Drug use is not...so you should not legalize.


We have legalized guns,

I think it does.
I think Americans are retarded for allowing the common person to carry arms.
Quote:
Abortion is legal, but there is a huge cultural stigma and backlash against it.

And should be Illega

Quote:
l. So no, just because something is "legal" doesn't mean think it's "okay to do it."

You have given no example otherweise, Abortion is Legal..so people do it and have no penalty.
Gun Ownership is legal, so people own guns..with no penalty.

Quote:
Legislating morality is some of the worst things people can do. Legislation should be done for pragmatic reasons as a way to improve society (in my opinion). Otherwise we have all sorts of moral claims we can claim the government should impose on society- many of which I would oppose.

Tough

Quote:
Drugs by themselves aren't bad, it's drug abuse and some of the externalities that they cause that society has decided are bad. Creating policies that mitigate those is certainly possible within the framework of legalization.

I disagree


This isn't even an argument, just a statement of opinion.
Complex Systems
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Well, lets be honest then, banning drugs doesn't stop drug abuse. The issue with the banning them because they have the potential to cause harm, is it's implying that banning drugs is a strong enough measure to stop abuse. It's not, and the historical data reflects this. Making drugs illegal hasn't worked at stopping drug abuse. Drugs are more prevalent, and cheaper, then ever before. Abuse is rampant, and we don't have the programs in place to mitigate it. Lets look at cigarette smoking, despite being legal the rate of people smoking has dropped dramatically since the 60's. People aren't stupid, and thinking that government banning something is going to restrict access or demand has shown not to work when it comes to drugs.

I would rather have drugs legalized, and instead of spending as much as we do on incarceration and effectively trying to limit the supply (which has failed) focus on things like rehabilitation clinics, and other better targeted abuse prevention programs.


Once you Legalize something, you are saying that it's ok to do it, and that the thing you are legalizing is moral or correct.

Drug use is not...so you should not legalize.


We have legalized guns,

I think it does.
I think Americans are retarded for allowing the common person to carry arms.
Quote:
Abortion is legal, but there is a huge cultural stigma and backlash against it.

And should be Illega

Quote:
l. So no, just because something is "legal" doesn't mean think it's "okay to do it."

You have given no example otherweise, Abortion is Legal..so people do it and have no penalty.
Gun Ownership is legal, so people own guns..with no penalty.

Quote:
Legislating morality is some of the worst things people can do. Legislation should be done for pragmatic reasons as a way to improve society (in my opinion). Otherwise we have all sorts of moral claims we can claim the government should impose on society- many of which I would oppose.

Tough

Quote:
Drugs by themselves aren't bad, it's drug abuse and some of the externalities that they cause that society has decided are bad. Creating policies that mitigate those is certainly possible within the framework of legalization.

I disagree


This isn't even an argument, just a statement of opinion.


I think he might be arguing that his opinion reflects ethical truth. I can't be sure though; people often spout nonsense of there being a "subjective truth" of ethics.
Complex Systems's avatar

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Once you Legalize something, you are saying that it's ok to do it, and that the thing you are legalizing is moral or correct.

Drug use is not...so you should not legalize.


We have legalized guns,

I think it does.
I think Americans are retarded for allowing the common person to carry arms.
Quote:
Abortion is legal, but there is a huge cultural stigma and backlash against it.

And should be Illega

Quote:
l. So no, just because something is "legal" doesn't mean think it's "okay to do it."

You have given no example otherweise, Abortion is Legal..so people do it and have no penalty.
Gun Ownership is legal, so people own guns..with no penalty.

Quote:
Legislating morality is some of the worst things people can do. Legislation should be done for pragmatic reasons as a way to improve society (in my opinion). Otherwise we have all sorts of moral claims we can claim the government should impose on society- many of which I would oppose.

Tough

Quote:
Drugs by themselves aren't bad, it's drug abuse and some of the externalities that they cause that society has decided are bad. Creating policies that mitigate those is certainly possible within the framework of legalization.

I disagree


This isn't even an argument, just a statement of opinion.


I think he might be arguing that his opinion reflects ethical truth. I can't be sure though; people often spout nonsense of there being a "subjective truth" of ethics.


I think he's being contrarian, per his profile, but, lacking a good argument can only appeal to his own authority/opinions.

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