What's Wrong With Obama's Health Care Plan?

[Grapes and Fried Chicken]

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Grapes and Fried Chicken

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Grapes and Fried Chicken

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Grapes and Fried Chicken

I have a problem with the government having that much power over my life. Yes, I know what you're all thinking. "Dirty Republican." I'm not. I'm Libertarian. I just don't want the government have the power to control my health care, which, although they don't say it, is the way it looks like it is going, to me.

To address your point: You don't want the government to control your healthcare; do you know how is controlling it today? And do you trust them more?

Yes. I do trust them more because they are interested in profit and not reelection. Profit I can agree with. Although they are corrupt and bad, I believe they aren't lost.

You trust them with your CARE because they want to leech money from both you and those providing you with the care (hospitals)??

That makes absolutely no sense.

Also, Obama's plan is not based on his desire to be reelected. It is an attempt to give more than 30 million uninsured Americans affordable and flexible health care.

They want to leach my money. And others want to do the same thing. Therefore, they compete. They give me good deals to try and convince me. Then, they don't do stupid things with my plan because they might lose me. So yes, it does make sense.

Government wants to get reelected. They make everything they do sound good and they get out alright.

In response to the last paragraph:
Lol. Right. Ok. Whatever. You just believe that, dude.

They do not give you deals that a non-profit would. Medicare has a profit margin of roughly 4%. Compare that to the companies you're riding on, and you'll see a dramtic difference.

"Govenerment" doesn't want to get reelected. You can't "reelect" the government.

Oh, you mean you have no response, because you know I'm right?

What's all them big words meaning?

Arguing semantics is not going to get you anywhere.

My original statement was supposed to imply that I believe that is wrong and it is stupid and naive for you to believe that. Better?

[Syndactyly]

Foxie-Sama

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Foxie-Sama

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Foxie-Sama

Then give me an analogy that fits this situation then. My analogy is exactly what you are proposing.


"The rich can pay $10 for water, where as the poor can only pay $5 for the SAME EXACT WATER, so we will charge the rich the $10, and the poor $5"

You're quoting the wrong person, I did not say that.

I do apologize, you are correct in that I did quote the wrong person. But please give me a "good analogy" then if mine doesn't suffice.

"The rich can pay $10 for water, and the poor people can pay $10 for water too or they will be fined or sent to prison for tax evasion."

Well, the prior poster said they think that the rich should pay more taxes because "they can afford it" Your analogy would be if the rich and the poor paid the same flat rate for taxes. Both you and your analogy fail.

Did I ever say I agreed with what he posted? NO! Both what he said AND your analogy CONFLICTED WITH REALITY. So you're the ones who are failing.

[Grapes and Fried Chicken]

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Foxie-Sama

Syndactyly

Grapes and Fried Chicken

Syndactyly

Grapes and Fried Chicken

I have a problem with the government having that much power over my life. Yes, I know what you're all thinking. "Dirty Republican." I'm not. I'm Libertarian. I just don't want the government have the power to control my health care, which, although they don't say it, is the way it looks like it is going, to me.

To address your point: You don't want the government to control your healthcare; do you know how is controlling it today? And do you trust them more?

Yes. I do trust them more because they are interested in profit and not reelection. Profit I can agree with. Although they are corrupt and bad, I believe they aren't lost.

You trust them with your CARE because they want to leech money from both you and those providing you with the care (hospitals)??

That makes absolutely no sense.

Also, Obama's plan is not based on his desire to be reelected. It is an attempt to give more than 30 million uninsured Americans affordable and flexible health care.

What I think the prior poster was trying to get at is that a company that is interested in profit is going to be more willing to apease you so they can keep your business. It makes no sense for them to piss you off, because you will just take your business elsewhere, and thus they will not get your money.


And I call bullshit on the latter part of your post. Of COURSE passing this bill is used so Obama and all the other Dems can be reelected. Why would they waste their time passing a bill that wouldn't do anything to get them reelected next term? Because they care about their fellow American? Hell no! I will guarren-damn-tee you that if this bill passes, that will be the HIGHLIGHT of Obama's reelection campaign (If it doesn't bankrupt America), and it DOESN'T pass, that will be the highlight of the Republicans' campaign.

Maybe the president would waste his time passing a bill because that's his [******** job. rolleyes

Wait, wait, wait. It's the President's job to pass a bill? I think you don't understand this at all, do you?

[Foxie-Sama]

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Foxie-Sama

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Foxie-Sama

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Slippery slope.

Also, you never answered my question on what is to prevent the government from dipping into the health care money? When a criminal commits a crime, they lock them up to prevent them from committing more crimes. No one is holding the government accountable for dipping into social security. I highly doubt it will even be around by the time we are of age to retire.

Better question: What's to prevent the government from dipping into anything? What makes you think that the government is making these massive profits off of Medicare? Are you just going to live in fear your whole life that the government is out to get you?

Ah, common tactic, try to avoid my question with a question of your own. I should refuse your question but I will answer it. Nothing, nothing is preventing the government from dipping into anything. Thats the biggest reason why I want them to stop taxing the crap out of me. I also love how the only thing that they pass without any "nays" is "Should we give ourselves a pay raise?" They have to pay for their pay raises and their re-election campaigns somehow.
Just because I disagree with how the government is spending the Americans' money, doesn;t mean I think the "government is out to get me" Thanks for putting words in my mouth. Now please answer my prior question, which is "What is to prevent the government from dipping into the health care money they collect from the US tax payers, like they have with medicare and social security?

So you really have a problem with taxes, rather than the health care system. How, you to then propose, the government provide us with any services without taxes?

I am not going to answer that question, purely because it is utterly ridiculous. Also, prove that the government is dipping into Medicare funds.

Where did I say that I was against taxes? You yet again, are putting words in my mouth. I am against the RICH getting taxed more then the poor just because "they can afford it"

And you are not answering my question because you have no answer, or rather, you DON'T want to answer because its going to weaken your point. There ISN'T anything to prevent the government from dipping into it.

You accuse me of being paranoid, well I accuse you of drinking the Obama kool-aid. This is the post that did it for me

Syndactyly

Also, Obama's plan is not based on his desire to be reelected. It is an attempt to give more than 30 million uninsured Americans affordable and flexible health care.

[Syndactyly]

Grapes and Fried Chicken

Syndactyly

Grapes and Fried Chicken

Syndactyly

Grapes and Fried Chicken

Yes. I do trust them more because they are interested in profit and not reelection. Profit I can agree with. Although they are corrupt and bad, I believe they aren't lost.

You trust them with your CARE because they want to leech money from both you and those providing you with the care (hospitals)??

That makes absolutely no sense.

Also, Obama's plan is not based on his desire to be reelected. It is an attempt to give more than 30 million uninsured Americans affordable and flexible health care.

They want to leach my money. And others want to do the same thing. Therefore, they compete. They give me good deals to try and convince me. Then, they don't do stupid things with my plan because they might lose me. So yes, it does make sense.

Government wants to get reelected. They make everything they do sound good and they get out alright.

In response to the last paragraph:
Lol. Right. Ok. Whatever. You just believe that, dude.

They do not give you deals that a non-profit would. Medicare has a profit margin of roughly 4%. Compare that to the companies you're riding on, and you'll see a dramtic difference.

"Govenerment" doesn't want to get reelected. You can't "reelect" the government.

Oh, you mean you have no response, because you know I'm right?

What's all them big words meaning?

Arguing semantics is not going to get you anywhere.

My original statement was supposed to imply that I believe that is wrong and it is stupid and naive for you to believe that. Better?

Oh, still bored, are we? Well, you've made it evident that this is a pointless conversation. But I will add:

That was NOT semantics. The GOVERNMENT is not a PERSON that can be "reelected." You show you have no concept of how the government works, how much work and how many people are involved in the process of making and passing a bill, and how that effects the country.

You didn't imply anything. You were very explicit with your word choice, and it speaks very loud and clear: You have no idea what you're talking about. The fact that you ignored a crucial part of my post, and called it "big words," proves that you are limited and crippled by your own ignorance.

[Foxie-Sama]

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Right, but because the public is largely ignorant to how much they're being robbed, insurance companies don't have to explain anything.

What the ********. Okay, prove that assertion. Because this bill DRASTICALLY improves health care in American, both financially and functionally, and it DOES NOT change YOUR CURRENT PLAN (if you have one). So why are you bitching?

Maybe the president would waste his time passing a bill because that's his [******** job. rolleyes

Why am I so pissed about it? Because I am going to keep my group plan that I am currently paying for. I will still be taxed for this health care plan, even if I don't use it. I will be paying TWICE for something that I already have. Thats why I am pissed. I work damn hard for my money, just to have the government tell me "Oh you silly little person you. You don't know how to spend your money properly, so the government is going to spend it for you". I have to work harder then I already am to be making the same amount I currently am (which already leaves me with very little left after the end of the month, BTW)

THAT is why I am pissed.

[Syndactyly]

Grapes and Fried Chicken

Syndactyly

Foxie-Sama

Syndactyly

Grapes and Fried Chicken

Yes. I do trust them more because they are interested in profit and not reelection. Profit I can agree with. Although they are corrupt and bad, I believe they aren't lost.

You trust them with your CARE because they want to leech money from both you and those providing you with the care (hospitals)??

That makes absolutely no sense.

Also, Obama's plan is not based on his desire to be reelected. It is an attempt to give more than 30 million uninsured Americans affordable and flexible health care.

What I think the prior poster was trying to get at is that a company that is interested in profit is going to be more willing to apease you so they can keep your business. It makes no sense for them to piss you off, because you will just take your business elsewhere, and thus they will not get your money.


And I call bullshit on the latter part of your post. Of COURSE passing this bill is used so Obama and all the other Dems can be reelected. Why would they waste their time passing a bill that wouldn't do anything to get them reelected next term? Because they care about their fellow American? Hell no! I will guarren-damn-tee you that if this bill passes, that will be the HIGHLIGHT of Obama's reelection campaign (If it doesn't bankrupt America), and it DOESN'T pass, that will be the highlight of the Republicans' campaign.

Maybe the president would waste his time passing a bill because that's his [******** job. rolleyes

Wait, wait, wait. It's the President's job to pass a bill? I think you don't understand this at all, do you?

I don't think you understand this at all. It is most definitely a part of his job to try to better this country. You seem to think he's a one man show, but he has a whole administration handling these issues.

[Lokai Odoki Vhello Ekitty]

he loves god , obama is cool he the a good pres ^-^

[Foxie-Sama]

Syndactyly

Foxie-Sama

Syndactyly

Foxie-Sama

Syndactyly

Foxie-Sama

Then give me an analogy that fits this situation then. My analogy is exactly what you are proposing.


"The rich can pay $10 for water, where as the poor can only pay $5 for the SAME EXACT WATER, so we will charge the rich the $10, and the poor $5"

You're quoting the wrong person, I did not say that.

I do apologize, you are correct in that I did quote the wrong person. But please give me a "good analogy" then if mine doesn't suffice.

"The rich can pay $10 for water, and the poor people can pay $10 for water too or they will be fined or sent to prison for tax evasion."

Well, the prior poster said they think that the rich should pay more taxes because "they can afford it" Your analogy would be if the rich and the poor paid the same flat rate for taxes. Both you and your analogy fail.

Did I ever say I agreed with what he posted? NO! Both what he said AND your analogy CONFLICTED WItH REALITY. So you're the ones who are failing.

Please explain how. My analogy was based on what he said. The reality is that he said that he believes that the rich should get taxed more then poor people because the rich can afford it. So based off of that logic, I came up with my logic.

But in reality, the rich DO get charged more. Ever heard of the Capital Gains Tax?

[Syndactyly]

Foxie-Sama

Where did I say that I was against taxes? You yet again, are putting words in my mouth. I am against the RICH getting taxed more then the poor just because "they can afford it"

Where in Obama's plan does it say the rich will be taxed more than the poor?

Foxie-Sama

And you are not answering my question because you have no answer, or rather, you DON'T want to answer because its going to weaken your point. There ISN'T anything to prevent the government from dipping into it.

No, I'm not going to answer that question because it's ridiculous. "WUTS STOPPING THEM FROM ROBBING US BLIND?" How about the fact they will be charging us A LOT LESS than the insurance companies do. How about that?

Foxie-Sama

You accuse me of being paranoid, well I accuse you of drinking the Obama kool-aid. This is the post that did it for me

Syndactyly

Also, Obama's plan is not based on his desire to be reelected. It is an attempt to give more than 30 million uninsured Americans affordable and flexible health care.

You have yet to show any evidence that suggests his plan has nothing to do with getting uninsure Americans health care. You're basing your argument on hot air.

[bbamazon]

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bbamazon

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xsv.ninja

the same problem as with countries that have free health care, wait lists.

how ever i'd like to see how america does with it...

I have a friend in Canada. He has a heart condition. But he didn't always know that. He got light headed and went to the hospital. He was in and out in a couple hours.

Every time I've been to the ER I sat and waited 5-10 hours before I even got to see a doctor.

Usually you have people abuse the ER room which leads to an extended wait for those who are not considered a true emergency. The triage nurse prioritizes who gets seen based upon the severity of the complaint. I.E a sniffle is not going to be seen before heart palpitations.

Why is it that people don't abuse the ER in other countries, then? Why is it that I had to wait for 10 hours when I was experiencing numbness, blindness, severe head pain and various other serious symptoms? I don't think there was 10 hours worth of serious injuries and heart palpitations in the ER that day. A lot of people who DID have the sniffles go to go before me.

You obviously did not communicate the seriousness of your condition to the ER triage nurse.

[Syndactyly]

Foxie-Sama

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Right, but because the public is largely ignorant to how much they're being robbed, insurance companies don't have to explain anything.

What the ********. Okay, prove that assertion. Because this bill DRASTICALLY improves health care in American, both financially and functionally, and it DOES NOT change YOUR CURRENT PLAN (if you have one). So why are you bitching?

Maybe the president would waste his time passing a bill because that's his [******** job. rolleyes

Why am I so pissed about it? Because I am going to keep my group plan that I am currently paying for. I will still be taxed for this health care plan, even if I don't use it. I will be paying TWICE for something that I already have. Thats why I am pissed. I work damn hard for my money, just to have the government tell me "Oh you silly little person you. You don't know how to spend your money properly, so the government is going to spend it for you". I have to work harder then I already am to be making the same amount I currently am (which already leaves me with very little left after the end of the month, BTW)

THAT is why I am pissed.

You're taxed for A LOT of things you don't use. Again, this sounds like you have a problem with taxes in general.

Prove that Obama's plan is going to increase your taxes. I think you're just ASSUMING that it will. When you search for the facts you will actually realize that his plan is ACTUALLY going to save A LOT of money.

[Syndactyly]

Foxie-Sama

Syndactyly

Foxie-Sama

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Foxie-Sama

I do apologize, you are correct in that I did quote the wrong person. But please give me a "good analogy" then if mine doesn't suffice.

"The rich can pay $10 for water, and the poor people can pay $10 for water too or they will be fined or sent to prison for tax evasion."

Well, the prior poster said they think that the rich should pay more taxes because "they can afford it" Your analogy would be if the rich and the poor paid the same flat rate for taxes. Both you and your analogy fail.

Did I ever say I agreed with what he posted? NO! Both what he said AND your analogy CONFLICTED WITH REALITY. So you're the ones who are failing.

Please explain how. My analogy was based on what he said. The reality is that he said that he believes that the rich should get taxed more then poor people because the rich can afford it. So based off of that logic, I came up with my logic.

But in reality, the rich DO get charged more. Ever heard of the Capital Gains Tax?

What he said holds no truth, so it's stupid that you ran with it.

What does the capital gains tax have to do with this health plan?

[Syndactyly]

bbamazon

Syndactyly

bbamazon

Syndactyly

xsv.ninja

the same problem as with countries that have free health care, wait lists.

how ever i'd like to see how america does with it...

I have a friend in Canada. He has a heart condition. But he didn't always know that. He got light headed and went to the hospital. He was in and out in a couple hours.

Every time I've been to the ER I sat and waited 5-10 hours before I even got to see a doctor.

Usually you have people abuse the ER room which leads to an extended wait for those who are not considered a true emergency. The triage nurse prioritizes who gets seen based upon the severity of the complaint. I.E a sniffle is not going to be seen before heart palpitations.

Why is it that people don't abuse the ER in other countries, then? Why is it that I had to wait for 10 hours when I was experiencing numbness, blindness, severe head pain and various other serious symptoms? I don't think there was 10 hours worth of serious injuries and heart palpitations in the ER that day. A lot of people who DID have the sniffles go to go before me.

You obviously did not communicate the seriousness of your condition to the ER triage nurse.

You don't know s**t about what happened in that emergency room. I was UNABLE TO SPEAK. My mother had to represent me, and you sure as hell BET she told them about my severe symptoms.

[Foxie-Sama]

Syndactyly

Foxie-Sama

Where did I say that I was against taxes? You yet again, are putting words in my mouth. I am against the RICH getting taxed more then the poor just because "they can afford it"

Where in Obama's plan does it say the rich will be taxed more than the poor?

Foxie-Sama

And you are not answering my question because you have no answer, or rather, you DON'T want to answer because its going to weaken your point. There ISN'T anything to prevent the government from dipping into it.

No, I'm not going to answer that question because it's ridiculous. "WUTS STOPPING THEM FROM ROBBING US BLIND?" How about the fact they will be charging us A LOT LESS than the insurance companies do. How about that?

Foxie-Sama

You accuse me of being paranoid, well I accuse you of drinking the Obama kool-aid. This is the post that did it for me

Syndactyly

Also, Obama's plan is not based on his desire to be reelected. It is an attempt to give more than 30 million uninsured Americans affordable and flexible health care.

You have yet to show any evidence that suggests his plan has nothing to do with getting uninsure Americans health care. You're basing your argument on hot air.

You are the king of putting words into peoples' mouths. I never said that his plan had NOTHING to do with insuring uninsured people, I am just saying that the main reason for it is so he can use it as a reelection tool. Here is another question for you, (that you will most likely dodge) What about the people that are willfully uninsured? The ones that just don't want to buy health insurance? I love how most of the people that are pro-health care reform act like all the uninsured people in the States do so because "The greedy insurance companies don't want to insure them or want to charge too much" What "costs too much" to you may not be what "costs too much" for me. I sell property and causality insurance (Auto, home, business, ect ect). There are some people that say "$40 a month for car insurance?!?! Thats outrageous!!! It needs to be lower!" And that tends to come from people that could afford to pay that much for it. It comes from people that just do not see the benefits of insurance.


Have you ever asked yourself the question "WHY does health care cost so much?". This health care bill is just attempting to treat the symptoms, not the acutal problem. I believe that a big contributing factor to why hospital bills are so high is because of people being sue happy. Your doctor farts while you are in the room so you sue him for multimillions. His malpratice insurance would then pay it, so then they have to charge him more to make up that loss. How does the doctor make up for the higher premium? By charging more for his services. I believe that tort reform would help significantly to help reduse the cost of health care.