What's Wrong With Obama's Health Care Plan?

[Bible Black Suicide]

The biggest problem revolves around the more liberal side of our democracy blowing up over the Bush Administrations globalization policies. Its a polarized sort of force on it, either accept the public option or reject it. The big thing is that with the public option you have to accept that America will be forced to inevitably outsource for Doctors. When that happens its determinism at its finest with every catalysm for all cause-effect reactions resolved around the idea of outsourcing our entire medical field. We need doctors. First thing that happens is we tax those that do not use the public option, everyone flocks to the public option making privitized health care a impossibility in capitilistic America. So my biggest problem with the bill begins with the public option.

[Syndactyly]

Jason the Samurai Knight

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Foxie-Sama

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Foxie-Sama

Now that she is retired and on social security they are charging premiums on her social security for her Medicare!

That's not a problem with Medicare, that's a problem with Social Security.

Social Security was fine, but the government started dipping into it. So what is to prevent the government from dipping into the premiums they will collect from the "public health care" product? Answer? Nothing. Its just the government's way of taking more of or money to line their pockets with promises that "everything will be ponies and rainbows! (but not the gay kind, because gays are evil!) [for the record, I am very pro-gay rights]


THE CAKE IS A LIE

Slippery slope.

She is right you know. Plus in my opinion the Government shouldn't be messing with that stuff cause as you can see we can't trust the government to NOT spend money they shouldn't. Rather then have them ******** it all up they should just fix the laws with health insurance right now. So they can't pull of this bull s**t run around. Since that would do more good then giving them money to ******** our health care up. I don't want to wait 6 years to get a ******** liver transplant when even now it would only take a year if you can afford it.

What really is beneficial about the insurance companies we have now? They leech the hell out of the health care system, they rob patients, doctors, and hospitals, and they raise premium costs. The only alternative is government run health care.

[Syndactyly]

Brenivin

Foxie-Sama

Syndactyly

Foxie-Sama

Syndactyly

Foxie-Sama

Now that she is retired and on social security they are charging premiums on her social security for her Medicare!

That's not a problem with Medicare, that's a problem with Social Security.

Social Security was fine, but the government started dipping into it. So what is to prevent the government from dipping into the premiums they will collect from the "public health care" product? Answer? Nothing. Its just the government's way of taking more of or money to line their pockets with promises that "everything will be ponies and rainbows! (but not the gay kind, because gays are evil!) [for the record, I am very pro-gay rights]

THE CAKE IS A LIE

Slippery slope.

How is it a "slippery slope"? They already HAVE done it with one thing, so answer me what is to prevent them from doing it again?

http://www.sirlin.net/storage/articles/slippery_slope.jpg

Precisely.

[xsv.ninja]

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xsv.ninja

the same problem as with countries that have free health care, wait lists.

how ever i'd like to see how america does with it...

I have a friend in Canada. He has a heart condition. But he didn't always know that. He got light headed and went to the hospital. He was in and out in a couple hours.

Every time I've been to the ER I sat and waited 5-10 hours before I even got to see a doctor.

funny how i hear different stories over in england with surgeries, so now that there are more people with healthcare, wait times are going to get lower?

anyway, still has to pass senate.

[Syndactyly]

Foxie-Sama

Tobias_London

It was an example to show how he can't take his time to perfect everything.
It's apparently not possible to do so right now, because people keep demanding that he come through on all his promises.
Give the man some time.
You can't change an entire country overnight.
In my opinion, yes, the rich should pay for it.
A slight increase in taxes isn't going to hurt them.
Republicans help the rich, Democrats hurt them.
We just had Republican leave office after helping the rich, now its our turn to hurt them. LoL

How in the hell is it fair that the rich should have to pay for YOUR health insurance?
Put yourself in the rich person's shoes. Would you like someone to charge you $10 for a product and sell the same exact product to someone else for $5, just because "you can afford to pay more for it then they can?" Hell no! You would get pissed and yell discrimination, because in reality, it IS discrimination.

Bad analogy is bad.

Poor people have to pay taxes too. If they don't they go to prison for tax evasion.

[Syndactyly]

Nonesuch Solo

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Foxie-Sama

Syndactyly

Foxie-Sama

Social Security was fine, but the government started dipping into it. So what is to prevent the government from dipping into the premiums they will collect from the "public health care" product? Answer? Nothing. Its just the government's way of taking more of or money to line their pockets with promises that "everything will be ponies and rainbows! (but not the gay kind, because gays are evil!) [for the record, I am very pro-gay rights]


THE CAKE IS A LIE

Slippery slope.

How is it a "slippery slope"? They already HAVE done it with one thing, so answer me what is to prevent them from doing it again?

Do you know what a slippery slope means?

"They did it before, that means they'll DEFINITELY do it with this other thing too."

I think in all honesty the problem we see here (and in many other arguments) is that many, many citizens do not trust the government to find the best-fit option for everyone, and many of the governing members don't trust the citizens either.

Who, then, do they trust? The government possesses probably the largest and most accurate database of American statistics out there.

[Syndactyly]

xsv.ninja

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xsv.ninja

the same problem as with countries that have free health care, wait lists.

how ever i'd like to see how america does with it...

I have a friend in Canada. He has a heart condition. But he didn't always know that. He got light headed and went to the hospital. He was in and out in a couple hours.

Every time I've been to the ER I sat and waited 5-10 hours before I even got to see a doctor.

funny how i hear different stories over in england with surgeries, so now that there are more people with healthcare, wait times are going to get lower?

anyway, still has to pass senate.

I haven't asked anyone in England but if one "socialist" system works and the other doesn't that proves that it is not necessarily government run health care that is the problem but how the government runs it can become an issue.

[Foxie-Sama]

Tobias_London

Foxie-Sama

Tobias_London

It was an example to show how he can't take his time to perfect everything.
It's apparently not possible to do so right now, because people keep demanding that he come through on all his promises.
Give the man some time.
You can't change an entire country overnight.
In my opinion, yes, the rich should pay for it.
A slight increase in taxes isn't going to hurt them.
Republicans help the rich, Democrats hurt them.
We just had Republican leave office after helping the rich, now its our turn to hurt them. LoL

How in the hell is it fair that the rich should have to pay for YOUR health insurance?
Put yourself in the rich person's shoes. Would you like someone to charge you $10 for a product and sell the same exact product to someone else for $5, just because "you can afford to pay more for it then they can?" Hell no! You would get pissed and yell discrimination, because in reality, it IS discrimination.

Actually, I'm not a selfish b***h like most Americans and would love to help those in need.
I wouldn't be bitching about higher taxes on me, because I can actually afford it.
I'd be donating money to charities that need it.
I'd be helping those who cannot help themselves.
It's sad that Americans aren't willing to help their fellow countrymen.
If you make more money, you should be taxed more.
If you make less money, you should be taxed less.
Sounds like common sense to me.

Ah, you bring up the point of charities. I believe that charities should be controlled no father then the state level. Its easier to catch fraud that way. Now if I am taxed more, thats less money that I could give to charities (and yes, I do give to charities quite often). I worked for my money, so I should be able to spend it the way I see fit, not how the government says I need to spend it. Why should I be punished because I happen to make more then someone else? Most rich people worked very hard for their money, so why shouldn't they keep it?

[Syndactyly]

Foxie-Sama

Tobias_London

Foxie-Sama

Tobias_London

It was an example to show how he can't take his time to perfect everything.
It's apparently not possible to do so right now, because people keep demanding that he come through on all his promises.
Give the man some time.
You can't change an entire country overnight.
In my opinion, yes, the rich should pay for it.
A slight increase in taxes isn't going to hurt them.
Republicans help the rich, Democrats hurt them.
We just had Republican leave office after helping the rich, now its our turn to hurt them. LoL

How in the hell is it fair that the rich should have to pay for YOUR health insurance?
Put yourself in the rich person's shoes. Would you like someone to charge you $10 for a product and sell the same exact product to someone else for $5, just because "you can afford to pay more for it then they can?" Hell no! You would get pissed and yell discrimination, because in reality, it IS discrimination.

Actually, I'm not a selfish b***h like most Americans and would love to help those in need.
I wouldn't be bitching about higher taxes on me, because I can actually afford it.
I'd be donating money to charities that need it.
I'd be helping those who cannot help themselves.
It's sad that Americans aren't willing to help their fellow countrymen.
If you make more money, you should be taxed more.
If you make less money, you should be taxed less.
Sounds like common sense to me.

Ah, you bring up the point of charities. I believe that charities should be controlled no father then the state level. Its easier to catch fraud that way.

Not necessarily. Charities could be federally run but still have state divisions.

[Grapes and Fried Chicken]

I have a problem with the government having that much power over my life. Yes, I know what you're all thinking. "Dirty Republican." I'm not. I'm Libertarian. I just don't want the government have the power to control my health care, which, although they don't say it, is the way it looks like it is going, to me.

[Foxie-Sama]

Syndactyly

Foxie-Sama

Tobias_London

It was an example to show how he can't take his time to perfect everything.
It's apparently not possible to do so right now, because people keep demanding that he come through on all his promises.
Give the man some time.
You can't change an entire country overnight.
In my opinion, yes, the rich should pay for it.
A slight increase in taxes isn't going to hurt them.
Republicans help the rich, Democrats hurt them.
We just had Republican leave office after helping the rich, now its our turn to hurt them. LoL

How in the hell is it fair that the rich should have to pay for YOUR health insurance?
Put yourself in the rich person's shoes. Would you like someone to charge you $10 for a product and sell the same exact product to someone else for $5, just because "you can afford to pay more for it then they can?" Hell no! You would get pissed and yell discrimination, because in reality, it IS discrimination.

Bad analogy is bad.

Poor people have to pay taxes too. If they don't they go to prison for tax evasion.

Then give me an analogy that fits this situation then. My analogy is exactly what you are proposing.

Syndactyly

In my opinion, yes, the rich should pay for it.
A slight increase in taxes isn't going to hurt them.

"The rich can pay $10 for water, where as the poor can only pay $5 for the SAME EXACT WATER, so we will charge the rich the $10, and the poor $5"

[xsv.ninja]

Syndactyly

xsv.ninja

Syndactyly

xsv.ninja

the same problem as with countries that have free health care, wait lists.

how ever i'd like to see how america does with it...

I have a friend in Canada. He has a heart condition. But he didn't always know that. He got light headed and went to the hospital. He was in and out in a couple hours.

Every time I've been to the ER I sat and waited 5-10 hours before I even got to see a doctor.

funny how i hear different stories over in england with surgeries, so now that there are more people with healthcare, wait times are going to get lower?

anyway, still has to pass senate.

I haven't asked anyone in England but if one "socialist" system works and the other doesn't that proves that it is not necessarily government run health care that is the problem but how the government runs it can become an issue.

that's why i'm pretty intersted in seeing how america will do it, plus the whole socialist thing is kinda a different issue.