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So automation is going to increase. Big ******** deal - welcome to the past two centuries of human existence. As long as there is any human ambition left unfulfilled there will be work to do.
Project 429
So automation is going to increase. Big ******** deal - welcome to the past two centuries of human existence. As long as there is any human ambition left unfulfilled there will be work to do.


Unfortunately, it is a statistical fact that Apathy has been on the Rise for the last 30 years. That's why you see articles like "Student apathy on the rise" banking apathy on the rise", "Millennial Apathy on the rise", "the rise of apathy in the digital age" "apathy and the rise of deviant democracy" and innumerable other pop and scholarly articles, all saying pretty much the same thing: People are no longer as ambitious in life as they used to be, they are increasing in apathy, decreasing in motivation, and with that motivation, their ambition is following.


The notion that a motivated worker can find employment in a world where apathy is the daily bread is antiquated and naive in a post information age society dominated by automation bent on obsolescence of as many human occupations as possible in the shortest time imaginable.
It all sounds good if thing were like star trek but people are greedy and if they don't learn to be happy with what they get then they will be loosing jobs. With the unions help they are pricing themselves out of work the union says strike and they do and several propped loose there jobs everytime the pay wage goes up then people get laid off.
Michael Noire
Project 429
So automation is going to increase. Big ******** deal - welcome to the past two centuries of human existence. As long as there is any human ambition left unfulfilled there will be work to do.


Unfortunately, it is a statistical fact that Apathy has been on the Rise for the last 30 years. That's why you see articles like "Student apathy on the rise" banking apathy on the rise", "Millennial Apathy on the rise", "the rise of apathy in the digital age" "apathy and the rise of deviant democracy" and innumerable other pop and scholarly articles, all saying pretty much the same thing: People are no longer as ambitious in life as they used to be, they are increasing in apathy, decreasing in motivation, and with that motivation, their ambition is following.


The notion that a motivated worker can find employment in a world where apathy is the daily bread is antiquated and naive in a post information age society dominated by automation bent on obsolescence of as many human occupations as possible in the shortest time imaginable.


Now you're coming off as ecclesiastical. I need to go wash my hands.
lemans66
It all sounds good if thing were like star trek but people are greedy and if they don't learn to be happy with what they get then they will be loosing jobs. With the unions help they are pricing themselves out of work the union says strike and they do and several propped loose there jobs everytime the pay wage goes up then people get laid off.


there were some disturbing aspects to Star Trek society. They were subtle, but it became more obvious as the characters drifted away from Officers. Like, you could have "anything you wanted" with a replicator, but the replicator was locked out of making weapons...yet the re enactment holodeck adventures consistently had replicated components including things like rapiers or muskets or 1911 pistols for things like Swashbuckling or Detect Novel stories. Phasers were locked up for a portion of the population, but ubiquitous for others, like half the cast on away teams. I noticed one of the episodes had a guy falsely accused of hacking the replicators to make a gun to kill people, but the actual person guilty was someone who was an officer and had security clearance to not only make the replicator work, but also wipe the memory of their use of the device. The worst part was the fact that it was a personal agenda.

I think when you start to make super societies and claim everyone is equal, making some people "more equal than others" like limiting who gets to produce what, or who gets to own what, you actually just create dilemmas where injustice is more easily produced.

In Elysium, there was a techie guy as the protagonist, but even though he worked on the robot police, he was still bullied by them, harassed by them, injured for no reason by them, and didn't have the same medical benefits as the people in the space colony, the colony that wouldn't even be possible without workers like him working on the robots and other machines.

The natural assumption of most people is no such welfare program, much less a welfare plus program. They figure purging the population is the solution, or enslaving the bulk of the population and then living in some orbital or skyscraper paradise. Many people in power promoting this technological future where the majority are obsolete and unemployable want more than 90% of the population living in a graffiti covered urban bomb zone. They literally see themselves up in a tower or restaurant somewhere sipping Champagne, Mimosa, or Prosecco, looking out a window, looking down at their social inferiors. Many of them look forward to a return of illiteracy and simplified, gutter-trash language, disease, rotting teeth, and extremely shortened lifespan for these people.

Psychologically, the lower the living standards and intellectual or physical development of their inferiors, the more superior they can feel for even less effort. I think that power trip pushes them to imagine themselves as Gods to men, and seeing themselves as men, would like to perceive the lower classes as insects and vermin.

It is imperative that better conditions for the masses are planned now, before the automated society that comes irreversibly locks in a Dystopian and largely unnecessary Caste system with 0 social mobility.
if there were a way for population to be controlled without actively sterilizing or exterminating or forbidding by law the activity, that would be best. I think if abstinence (or autoerotica as a standby where abstinence fails) were culturally more popular, and colonization of other regions of our solar system including orbital stations were popular, the population could totally stabilize.

Population control is always one of the main equations in an automated society because the automation has to divide the resources it produces by the number of people. In a closed economic model, the higher the population, the less each person gets. In a colonization model, the automations simply produce more resources. That's a kind of economics people aren't used to having, but it was very much like that when America was colonized. The "west" was vast and largely untapped. The Natives didn't scratch the surface of minerals and energy.

What we need is a second wave of this colonization model, but with things like asteroid belts and orbital satellite farms. You all know plants don't grow correctly in low gravity, but you also know if the satellite has a big donut shape, anything inside the rim of the donut experiences something like gravity. You can even stack donuts together into a big cylinder. Sunlight direct or reflected and filtered can be provided through basic angles and approach of the satellites. That sunlight can also power all the systems. This is bone head science stuff, not some far fetched timewarp bullshit.

So there you have it. We are FACTUALLY entering an automated society. People are losing more and more jobs to machines. The jobs that come to maintain the machines are much smaller in number to the jobs they replace. Eventually, the number of jobs will be so small as to make the concept of employment economics ridiculous. Solutions are necessary at that time. I have put foward the system of merit through activity, instruction, and study, as a means of promoting self improvement in order to reward active people with more credits. Credits is just a generic term for whatever monetary system exists at that time. It could be gold doubloons or bit coins for all i care.
I was going to let this thread sail into the river Lethe, but then I read an interesting idea somewhere this morning:

Tax companies that are "over" Automated. Now this could be officiated as a Tax break when properly structured. A company operates based on the principle of replacing human labor with robots and computers. The technical definition of when automation is stealing someone's job is when a mechanical device does the work of either more than one person, or because the device is literally causing job losses in one sector without producing new jobs in a new sector.

Now, there is the whole concept of innovation and invention and the notion that we want to set up things like a nail gun, a circular saw, or a loom because having a human being spend 6 months knitting one sweater or quilt by hand is simply not fiscally sound for trade. The sweater produced by today's standards would have to retail for about $20,000.

so there is some grey area involved. At the root of the function is tool operation and the semblance of man portable, or human operated. A man operating a power drill or assembly bot used in an automotive factory to apply greater strength or precision than their own hands may still be constituted as a job - their power tool isn't a job, they + the power tool are the job, even if the production is faster. Same thing with a surgical robot being remotely piloted by a doctor operating on an astronaut, or more close to home.

But when the robot operator or automobile mechanic is itself automated, such as on an assembly line or through a program written by a third party to mass produce, then the loss of jobs begins to accelerate. Eventually when you have a factory of 1200 employees replaced by say, 12 robots, you have proven your business model is Robot Based.

So if you buy a massive CNC machine and you program it yourself and operate it yourself, you are counted as "one mill/lathe operator". However, if you buy a fleet of CNC machines and are plugging in your program, you are a single job plus a fleet of robots. Follow what I'm saying?

Meanwhile a Vegan Hippie Corporation with no robots and man made hemp paper receipts might be re- certified under the Modified Corporate/Import Tax as Exempt. So if a standard corporation paid 10% tax, the Vegan Hippie might pay 0-1% and the Terminator Assembly line might pay something closer to 50-90%. A 90% tax seems high but if you really only have a single room of people doing the work of a Small city and have thousands of homeless because of it... well, you get the point. That's 1-10 people earning 10% of the labor force of 10,000, which is still saying 1-10 people are earning the wages of 100-1000 people each.
I recently observed an article...
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/computers-are-making-us-dumb--nicholas-carr-140449209.html

That basically claims our automation industry is making us dumb. This applies to every citizen of every country where their tasks and deliberation have been automated. As someone who lives in an area frequently hit by internet and power outages, I find it disturbing to think that not only are people losing jobs to computers and robots, but humanity as a whole is becoming incompetent as a side effect of existing interaction. An incompetent people are largely unable to devise innovative solutions to practical problems.

In order for humanity to set their sights on the Stars, such as Lunar or Martian colonization and deep space exploration, it is important for our minds to be cultivated and agile, rather than vacant.

This actually supports a secondary motivation for taxing excessively automated industries - there should be a penalty for contributing to the collective brain drain of humanity - likely far more of a penalty than pollution - for it is upon these very same minds that we depend to solve problems of chemical spills and deforestation, for example.

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