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[Testament of Death]

redroosters

Testament of Death

redroosters

Testament of Death

redroosters

Testament of Death

Because it's totally ok to discharge a firearm on the side of the road.

Regulations are there to protect the populous and to protect the animals hunted. If we all start hunting out of season, we're going to burn through the population quicker than you may think. I'm from the South, and alot of hunters around here agree with the regulations. They know the consequences of unrestricted hunting. This isn't the ******** Wild West or some half-populated Britain. Resources are not infinite and there are way more people around than in Robin Hood's days.

Right, so buy your food, buy a license to hunt, or starve. Good choices there.


When money is essential to survival, we're completely ********]
Money is already essential to survival when you live within society. Either you can abide by the laws society has deemed itself to live by, or you can pack your s**t and hit the road. These rules we put in place are not arbitrary nor petty; they're there to protect everyone.

I'm going to stop you right there and point at some anecdotal evidence to completely shut down your point:

Um... all I see is "user image"...

It was an American flag. Apparently the URL was malformed or something.

Eh, it's understandable. Things like that happen every now and then.

Refer to my post in your other thread though.

[Blind Guardian the 2nd]

redroosters

Blind Guardian the 2nd

redroosters

I despise capitalist food distribution systems.

The food provision offered by the welfare state is certainly not capitalist. But yes, there's much room for improvement.

I got into the habit of using "they" as a result of academic writing; it saves time by not having to check the gender of every author you cite and avoids any mix-ups that might get you accused of sexist behaviour.

I keep forgetting you're British. Mm, delicious welfare state.


I think it's somewhat impossible not to be sexist when using English in the way I was taught, in which one defaults to "he" when not sure.

Savour the taste sir. Our government is currently dismantling that welfare state because the Liberal Democrats sold out their left-wing base for one term in office with the Conservatives. It's not that people won't get basic provisions: it's just small changes like people being forced to work without pay, terminal cancer patients being told they're fit enough for a job because they have more than six months until they die, and those recovering from strokes being deemed "not disabled enough" for state support. Classy.

That's because you're taught in the home of contemporary Western sexism, chap.

[Michael Noire]

Blind Guardian the 2nd

Michael Noire

The most efficient system of government is anarchy. it has the ability to maintain all of it's regulations 100% of the time. But a good government is based on Virtue, rather than legal writ. Aristotle believed you should continually make new laws and things would become better. Aristotle also believed women were chattel and slavery was cool - clearly, we can see why he believed in the endless manufacture of legal codes. Socrates was ordered to commit suicide because of an inferior judicial process and corrupt standard of legislation. Now we all know that what the characters in Robin Hood was illegal, but it was the right thing to do, so we as youth in the past empathized with these 'antiheroes". they formed the basis of our understanding of vigilante justice, and even super heroes.

But what's really disgusting is centuries later a man commits exactly the same act on the same or similar animal, again with a ranged weapon used for marksmanship, and our police end up doing exactly the same kind of thing - using the force of the law to penalize a man for attempting to feed his family.

Oh Michael, why do you so frequently engage in unbridled absurdity in the hope it will make your point? Providing a poor service with great efficiency does not mean that people truly benefit.

Laws cannot be virtuous? Where is this stated? You've demonstrated that laws can be used for evil. Of course they can. What you have not proved is that this law specifically is evil.

Ah, I see, the law should not be applied to men feeding their family? Does this mean that theft should be permitted, so long as someone's family is starving? What about murder? The point here, Mr. Noire, is not that a man is being prevented from feeding his family, but that the entire population of the USA cannot be permitted to wantonly kill deer whenever they desire some venison, because it would cripple the population, threaten certain species, and the ecosystem. I shouldn't have to explain that to someone as smart as you.

Now, as I said, if this was about the denial of hunting permits upon the idea that these deer "belong to the US government", you might have a point. But come back to me when the British Crown is prosecuting its citizens for eating the Queen's swans for sustenance.

You've missed my point. I was making a social commentary about how far civilization has fallen - to such an extent that people are literally reenacting Scenes from Robin Hood. Hunting is a peculiar thing - the idea of having guns for most liberals is to kill people, the argument gun owners make is they can hunt with them. You already know one deer is worth many, many gallons of gasoline, and two is worth twice that. The argument that a man who has already paid off and owns his car, loses his job, and goes hunting with ammo he already has in order to get several score pounds of meat to feed his family is pretty straight forward logic. The idea that he didn't get any on his "approved zone" but nearly hit two with his car on the way home, but those deer are off limits - that's a kind of logic and legal system thinking human beings should not support.

The fact that the police arrested an actual hunter on a legal hunting day for killing an animal he was legally allowed to kill, simply because of where he was standing or what sex the animal was - yes, that does resonate with British Crowns and the King's Deer sentiment. If a man steals a loaf of bread to feed his family, I first question where the bread was stolen from. My first question is not which penal code do I look up to figure out his prison sentence. That's what a bureaucrat would do.

You want to be more specific about what theft is? Taxes.

[Michael Noire]

a stupid chain reaction:

Citizens have right to arms to protect them from tyranny
tyrants inform liberals that arms are evil
liberals inform citizens that arms are only good for hunting
tyrants screw civilization causing citizens to starve
armed citizens go out hunting
tyrants try to stop armed citizens from hunting
armed citizens kill tyrants
tyrants inform liberals that arms are only used by cop killers
liberals try to ban all guns
guns get banned and previously armed citizens get rounded up
tyrants start raping your wives and children


This is obviously a completely ridiculous slippery slope that has never happened, and never will, right?

[Tee the Wicked]

Owns a gun and bullets? Check
Owns a vehicle capable of hauling a full-grown doe? Check.
Can afford gas to power the vehicle? Check.

So I call bullshit on this guy's EXCUSE that he "was unemployed and couldn't feed his family" He obviously has money to buy gas. He could sell his vehicle and buy a cheaper one/find alternative transportation. He could sell his gun. This guy just did what he wanted and now doesn't want to face the consequences. Personally, I don't have a problem with what he did, but I do have a problem with his excuse and lack of responsibility.

[Michael Noire]

Tee the Wicked

Owns a gun and bullets? Check
Owns a vehicle capable of hauling a full-grown doe? Check.
Can afford gas to power the vehicle? Check.

So I call bullshit on this guy's EXCUSE that he "was unemployed and couldn't feed his family" He obviously has money to buy gas. He could sell his vehicle and buy a cheaper one/find alternative transportation. He could sell his gun. This guy just did what he wanted and now doesn't want to face the consequences. Personally, I don't have a problem with what he did, but I do have a problem with his excuse and lack of responsibility.

logic failure.

Cost of Gasoline: 3-4 bucks/ gallon
Cost of Venison: 7-20 bucks/ pound
Cost of Ammo: 50-90 cents/ bullet

We don't know his circumstances, but we do know a hunter who already has guns and ammo in his possession will get more food shooting it than he would by selling a used truck and saving his gas money.

[Tee the Wicked]

Michael Noire

Tee the Wicked

Owns a gun and bullets? Check
Owns a vehicle capable of hauling a full-grown doe? Check.
Can afford gas to power the vehicle? Check.

So I call bullshit on this guy's EXCUSE that he "was unemployed and couldn't feed his family" He obviously has money to buy gas. He could sell his vehicle and buy a cheaper one/find alternative transportation. He could sell his gun. This guy just did what he wanted and now doesn't want to face the consequences. Personally, I don't have a problem with what he did, but I do have a problem with his excuse and lack of responsibility.

logic failure.

Cost of Gasoline: 3-4 bucks/ gallon
Cost of Venison: 7-20 bucks/ pound
Cost of Ammo: 50-90 cents/ bullet

We don't know his circumstances, but we do know a hunter who already has guns and ammo in his possession will get more food shooting it than he would by selling a used truck and saving his gas money.

You are correct, we don't know the situation, all the details. As I said, I don't have a problem with what he did, I have a problem with his excuse. I personally think he saw the opportunity for some fresh venison, so he disregarded regulations and did what he wanted, and to me, that makes his excuse nothing but a show of a lack of responsibility. I admit, I cannot prove this because I don't know all of the details or this guy's situation. But, by the same regard, you as well cannot prove any of your assumptions on this, yet you turn this into something it is not. One question I have is, how the hell is he able to afford gas and a vehicle, as well as the insurance(assuming he has any) if he is unemployed? Again, He obviously has money, so I don't see how he "cannot feed his family" when ramen noodles are 20-50 cents a pack.

[Michael Noire]

Tee the Wicked

Michael Noire

Tee the Wicked

Owns a gun and bullets? Check
Owns a vehicle capable of hauling a full-grown doe? Check.
Can afford gas to power the vehicle? Check.

So I call bullshit on this guy's EXCUSE that he "was unemployed and couldn't feed his family" He obviously has money to buy gas. He could sell his vehicle and buy a cheaper one/find alternative transportation. He could sell his gun. This guy just did what he wanted and now doesn't want to face the consequences. Personally, I don't have a problem with what he did, but I do have a problem with his excuse and lack of responsibility.

logic failure.

Cost of Gasoline: 3-4 bucks/ gallon
Cost of Venison: 7-20 bucks/ pound
Cost of Ammo: 50-90 cents/ bullet

We don't know his circumstances, but we do know a hunter who already has guns and ammo in his possession will get more food shooting it than he would by selling a used truck and saving his gas money.

You are correct, we don't know the situation, all the details. As I said, I don't have a problem with what he did, I have a problem with his excuse. I personally think he saw the opportunity for some fresh venison, so he disregarded regulations and did what he wanted, and to me, that makes his excuse nothing but a show of a lack of responsibility. I admit, I cannot prove this because I don't know all of the details or this guy's situation. But, by the same regard, you as well cannot prove any of your assumptions on this, yet you turn this into something it is not. One question I have is, how the hell is he able to afford gas and a vehicle, as well as the insurance(assuming he has any) if he is unemployed? Again, He obviously has money, so I don't see how he "cannot feed his family" when ramen noodles are 20-50 cents a pack.

in some areas there's a big barter community. Some people lose their jobs in an area where the whole factory is shut down, and the police are paid by giving out tickets. We don't know his complete circumstances, but I do know one deer can turn into sufficient meat worthy of selling and eating, and as an amateur leather worker, I've learned deer skin is relatively expensive too, and a good hunter could finance his bills and feed his family by hunting, skinning, and curing deer. I had a friend who did deer antler knives and had refrigerators full of meat.

Any way you look at it, I think most people in society would want guns used for this, rather than in wars or real crime.

I don't consider a zoning code violation a real crime. Here's some facts about deer populations.
http://deerdamagecontrolfence.com/deer_population.htm

[Tee the Wicked]

Michael Noire

in some areas there's a big barter community. Some people lose their jobs in an area where the whole factory is shut down, and the police are paid by giving out tickets. We don't know his complete circumstances, but I do know one deer can turn into sufficient meat worthy of selling and eating, and as an amateur leather worker, I've learned deer skin is relatively expensive too, and a good hunter could finance his bills and feed his family by hunting, skinning, and curing deer. I had a friend who did deer antler knives and had refrigerators full of meat.

Any way you look at it, I think most people in society would want guns used for this, rather than in wars or real crime.

I don't consider a zoning code violation a real crime. Here's some facts about deer populations.
http://deerdamagecontrolfence.com/deer_population.htm

Now you're getting somewhere. All that over-the-top "sherwood forest" bullshit aside, let us not forget, everything said here is each our own opinions based on the little facts we have, paired up with our own separate speculations on the facts we don't have. You do have a point, but in the end, I still find this man's excuse to be deplorable, especially if he is lying. Do I think he should have been arrested? No. I think this entire thing was simply to attract media attention for use in political motives. There are far worse things that people are NOT arrested for all the time. But, regardless, the man made an excuse. Considering there are people who are forced to resort to illegal activities for food, who have a lot less that this guys has, and based on the information available, I personally think the man is just lying.

[Keltoi Samurai]

Dimmer Meerkat

Strange that most commenters on the article are praising him for shooting some deer from across the street, but that the overwhelming reaction of looting during the aftermath of Katrina was extremely negative.

largely because shooting at some food with the goal of your family eating ≠ breaking a window and floating a Big Screen TV back to your submerged residence, with the goal of watching the Fooseball on a big screen when the streets unflood and the power comes back

[Keltoi Samurai]

redroosters

"Bakane" is one of my favorite Japanese expressions, meaning "You fool."

why not just say "you fool," then?

[Keltoi Samurai]

Blind Guardian the 2nd

Ryo Tarn

Owns a car, has gas for the car, owns firearms, driving home from a hunting trip with his son...
Yeah, I'm having some issues with the too poor to feed the family angle. Especially since he apparently thought a hunting trip with his boy was a better use of his time than job hunting.

You can't ask an American to sell his car or guns to feed his family. Now THAT would be a crime! rolleyes

actually, you really can't expect an American to sell his car to feed his family in a lot of places, since in most places, we don't have a reliable public transit system. where I grew up, taking a bus to work every day wasn't an option, on account of there not being any buses. there was a cab service, but it cost a $200 out-of-area fee to just get them to show up.

in that area and areas like it, a man selling his car to feed his family has just become unemployable.

as for selling his gun, yeah, there's a solution. he's at a financial level where his options to feed his family are to sell off the assets he has for a temporary fix, or use those assets to guarantee his family can eat.

if one already has the gun, then the cost of the deer is the cost of a bullet. a round of .30-06 costs less than a McDouble.

so, which of those things will actually feed his family the longest? a deer, or a McDouble?

[Keltoi Samurai]

marshmallowcreampie

Hunting regulations do exist for a reason...

and those reasons and regulations are all well and good when we're talking about people who hunt because they want to, or who hunt because they like eating things that aren't available at the corner grocer.

when we're talking about people that are doing it to live, because they don't have the money to buy food, and cannot survive until the regular season kicks off, it's a little different.

[Keltoi Samurai]

Testament of Death

redroosters

Testament of Death

Because it's totally ok to discharge a firearm on the side of the road.

Regulations are there to protect the populous and to protect the animals hunted. If we all start hunting out of season, we're going to burn through the population quicker than you may think. I'm from the South, and alot of hunters around here agree with the regulations. They know the consequences of unrestricted hunting. This isn't the ******** Wild West or some half-populated Britain. Resources are not infinite and there are way more people around than in Robin Hood's days.

Right, so buy your food, buy a license to hunt, or starve. Good choices there.


When money is essential to survival, we're completely ********]
Money is already essential to survival when you live within society. Either you can abide by the laws society has deemed itself to live by, or you can pack your s**t and hit the road. These rules we put in place are not arbitrary nor petty; they're there to protect everyone. If he's failing to feed his family, there's already systems in place in society to help him. I can't speak for the effectiveness of those systems, but they're there. That is what you live by when you live in our society.

The laws of the frontier died with the frontier. You live within our cities, you abide by our laws. This man broke a law, and while I cam sympathize with is intentions, I can't believe that he had no other choice.

hit the road to . . . where, exactly?

[Keltoi Samurai]

Blind Guardian the 2nd

redroosters

Right, so buy your food, buy a license to hunt, or starve. Good choices there.


When money is essential to survival, we're completely ********]

Except those aren't the only options available (one can be fed without money thanks to provisions from charities or the state), and it's quite clear the person in this story had money to spend on food.

In cases whereby many humans are faced with starvation, I think conservation laws will be cast into the ******** wind.

to the bolded: I read the story, I must've missed where they included a bank statement for the accused.