[ Poll ] Transgender Issues- not just "men in dresses"

Are you affected by trans issues?

Yes- I'm trans/I think I might be trans		16.1%	[ 893 ]
Yes- I have a trans friend or relative		12.1%	[ 671 ]
Indirectly- I have a trans acquaintance		6.1%	[ 338 ]
Not directly, but I feel these issues affect me indirectly/ I feel that these issues affect everyone		23.6%	[ 1310 ]
Not at all		30.8%	[ 1708 ]
I don't know		11.2%	[ 621 ]

Total Votes: 5541

[The Original Waffle]

When I feel like I'm lost, something tells you're here with me...

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Waffle Says~

I like this topic.
Very informational, and it seems you actually know what you're talking about.
Like, I know almost eveything that has to do with transexuals and homosexuality, and even I learned from your topic.
And I really do agree with you :]

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...And I can always find my way when you are here.

[Corrupted Coco]

Recursive Paradox

Syndactyly

I too am surprised by the amount of support I've gotten in my transition. The haters really are a small group of people.

In college things have been great. Small town folk on the other hand find me to be an abomination.

Kaosgirl

If I start muttering profanities at you two, rest assured it's just jealousy gonk

Don't be jealous, you're a hot goth which is just ridiculously even more hot than normal hot. Seriously. I can't compete with that. I'm just a indie chick.

pics

[JayDi Blaze]

I'm getting too pissy for my own good......rawr rawr rawr rawr....

[Rosetta Celestine]

Yaminon

Sigh.

I'm a little frustrated.

I generally try to educate people about transgender issues by explaining it's a disconnect to the body. People seem to get it that way -- and it is understood more easily that way. Of course the issue is more complicated than that, but cisgender people don't always need to know everything about us.

Anyway, one of the ways that people try to explain transgender to people *OFTEN* is by talking about some sort of ~soul~ or something. I'm an atheist. I don't believe in souls. There is some sort of chemical or hormonal or structural cause for having a transgender experience in one's life, and it has nothing to do with the supernatural. I don't like to have to disagree with people when it comes to their own experiences, especially if that's what they believe in, but when I have to do panels and discussions with other trans people it makes me very uncomfortable.

I feel like it illegitimizes the reality of being transgender. It takes away the medical and the scientific and it puts in a spiritual cause where it does not belong. I don't want to be rude and deny people their beliefs, but I feel like education is not the time and place to try and convince people that there is some sort of male and female soul.

I don't know what to do ._.

OH GOD I hear you Yaminon. Nothing skeeves me out more than that. It seems to be usually amongst the older crowd that use that spiel, maybe it's just the residual effects of the free-love-magic-crystal-spirits era of the Sixties and Seventies? I don't know, but it really bothers me because it makes a lot of people think we're a bunch of crazy hippies or something.

[Recursive Paradox]

Rosetta Celestine

Sometimes a word is just a word.

When it comes to a group that society regularly ******** with, oftentimes to the point of murder and denial of healthcare (btw, health care reform has a proposal that specifically excludes trans folk, it isn't in the bill yet but it might be), is it really a good idea to risk it?

Blairnensha

Only when it's meaningless, and even then, it generally sounds like other words.

Sometimes a cigar is just a p***s. biggrin

Blairnensha

My family doesn't; Presto is registered with our last name, and my dad talks about his personality as an individual.

But humans are often organized by social, ethnic, and age boundaries. I don't see how...

Meh.

Okay, you win. Just smack me if I slip up.

Don't you normally say trans chick and trans dude, already separating them cuz of the nickname words? I don't think you've ever used standard terminology for any of this. XD

Corrupted Coco

Recursive Paradox

Kaosgirl

If I start muttering profanities at you two, rest assured it's just jealousy gonk

Don't be jealous, you're a hot goth which is just ridiculously even more hot than normal hot. Seriously. I can't compete with that. I'm just a indie chick.

pics

Of who? Kaos or me? o_o

[Recursive Paradox]

The idea that someone might equate me with those indigo children bullshitters is terrifying.

[Syndactyly]

Recursive Paradox

Quote:

Now it's going to be your word against Merriam:

*buzzer sounds*

Wrong. Merriam is not an authority on academic usage. Dictionaries are layman terminology sources. The rare times they get it right related to academic terminology is when they say, "see science for real definition"

Then you admit that my definition is correct in Layman's terms. See, you keep satying "MEN ARE NEVER OPPRESSED. IMPOSSIBLE. But by the definition of oppression that MOST people understand, and how the word is MOST commonly used, yes, men absolutely ARE oppressed, by thesmelves AND by other groups. I don't think once I've ever claimed that men, "as a group," are oppressed, but even in that context they are, by man-haters, which do exist. I don't see why you'd deny that just because you don't consider it "statistically significant." As a man, I certianly can tell you it's significant. And don't throw the tranny card down; I'm talking about men as a gender.

Recursive Paradox

Quote:

Ah, that makes sense. But is it really that offensive or harmful if they are together in one word? I mosty put them together because I think "trans woman" looks more messy than "transwoman."

It's intensely offensive to me. Quite a few others. And it is used by a very large component of the population to other me as a "not true" woman. I.e. not a woman who is trans but this new third gendered thing called a transwoman. It's ******** up.

Are you SURE that is how they mean it? Is it possible they could just see it the way I did, and the way Blair described? I never split the term into "women and transwomen." Transwomen are, in my view, a type of woman, and just because it takes the form of one word doesn't mean I'm telling them they're not really women. If I really believed that, I wouldn't use the term "transman" either, because I know I'm a man, and I don't separate myself from other men.

Recursive Paradox

Quote:

I know what fake surprise looks like, most people are not very good actors.

You'd be surprised. People have a lot of practice with lying. XD We do live in America after all.

No, I wouldn't. I've worked in theater for roughly 10 years. I've seen hundreds of shitty auditions, I know what signs to look for. I also know a lot about behavioral psychology and what to look for in a liar.

Recursive Paradox

Quote:

While only a small group of women "hate" men, a lot of women say hateful and sexist things about men.

Proof?

You're an example.

Recursive Paradox

Quote:

And when I do state that I have an issue with it they pull the, "You're verbally abusing me! You're just telling me I can't say that because I'm a woman!" card.

So this is just anecdotal then? Are you confusing sexist things with say, true things? Like the fact that many women don't trust men because men don't wear signs that say, "good" and "bad" ergo forcing folk to make a judgment call that could get them raped?

No, it is not true that all men rape women, that all men take advantage of women, that all men abuse women, that all men forcibly dominate women, that all men are "chavanist pigs," etc. The statements really make the b***h a hypocrite.

Caution is one thing, talking trash is another.

[Syndactyly]

Recursive Paradox

Syndactyly

I don't get my panties in a bunch when someone calls me a transman.

Don't those panties put a bit of pressure on your junk?

Nah, generally they're manties (men's lingere designed to look girly). But I do have some actual panties, I've made sure they're roomy.

Recursive Paradox

Quote:

They're still calling me a man.

*shrug*

They're separating you from men by making it so you don't have a claim to the word man separate from the word trans. You're considered a semi man, a pseudo man to them. That's what the language came from. It may not always have that aspect now, but it's still deeply offensive due to that history. At least to me.

I don't see how they're necessarily separating me from men any more by saying "transman" instead of "trans man." Mentioning the trans, no matter how they do it, puts my c**t on display. So if I really don't want to be "separated" I'd rather they just not mention that I am trans at all.

[Syndactyly]

Yaminon

Sigh.

I'm a little frustrated.

I generally try to educate people about transgender issues by explaining it's a disconnect to the body. People seem to get it that way -- and it is understood more easily that way. Of course the issue is more complicated than that, but cisgender people don't always need to know everything about us.

Anyway, one of the ways that people try to explain transgender to people *OFTEN* is by talking about some sort of ~soul~ or something. I'm an atheist. I don't believe in souls. There is some sort of chemical or hormonal or structural cause for having a transgender experience in one's life, and it has nothing to do with the supernatural. I don't like to have to disagree with people when it comes to their own experiences, especially if that's what they believe in, but when I have to do panels and discussions with other trans people it makes me very uncomfortable.

I feel like it illegitimizes the reality of being transgender. It takes away the medical and the scientific and it puts in a spiritual cause where it does not belong. I don't want to be rude and deny people their beliefs, but I feel like education is not the time and place to try and convince people that there is some sort of male and female soul.

I don't know what to do ._.

I'm also an atheist, I never talk about souls because people in the audience could also be atheist (I've done educational panels, is that what you're doing?).

Since there is no concrete answer to why we're transgender, that's exactly what I tell the audience. "Some things in science are unexplained; transgenderism remains to be one of those things. There are, however, several theories: [lists/explains theories]."

I agree. I think making transgenderism a "spiritual" thing illegitimizes the reality and tangibility of transgenderism. People seem throw off that being trans is not physical, completely psychological, and therefore should be treated by psychological means. But a great deal of evidence suggests that behavioral therapy cannot change a person's gender identity. This suggests there is much more to gender identity than just a psychological whim.

I do like to include in my lectures a somewhat recent study where geneticists toyed with the genes of mice and found they were able to influence a mouse's gender identity by modifying certain genes. It was found that roughly 50 known genes contribute to gender identity. Sometimes these genes do not express until puberty (i.e. late onset transgenderism). This theory is the strongest scientific explanation, I believe.

[Captain Verd]

Syndactyly

I don't see how they're necessarily separating me from men any more by saying "transman" instead of "trans man." Mentioning the trans, no matter how they do it, puts my c**t on display. So if I really don't want to be "separated" I'd rather they just not mention that I am trans at all.

Agreed. As long as trans is there, whether there's a space or not, it means the same thing. Like the difference between a lot and alot. Same thing.

[Syndactyly]

Recursive Paradox

The idea that someone might equate me with those indigo children bullshitters is terrifying.

My mom absolutely does not believe in transgender.

But she believes in Indigo children.

So I tried to put a spin on that. "Maybe as an indigo child, I 'chose' the wrong body on accident because it was my first time and I didn't really know what I wanted." She says we CHOOSE the form we are going to take before we enter the world. I also said, "Or maybe I chose the wrong body on purpose so I would have to go through this mental, physical, and dare I say spiritual transformation." She brushed that off, "Yeah, you can make any argument you want to make your deviancy sound right." Wtf? No, if my "deviancy" doesn't make sense, I can't just make up a logical argument that actually supports it, sorry.

[Captain Verd]

Syndactyly

Recursive Paradox

The idea that someone might equate me with those indigo children bullshitters is terrifying.

My mom absolutely does not believe in transgender.

But she believes in Indigo children.

So I tried to put a spin on that. "Maybe as an indigo child, I 'chose' the wrong body on accident because it was my first time and I didn't really know what I wanted." She says we CHOOSE the form we are going to take before we enter the world. I also said, "Or maybe I chose the wrong body on purpose so I would have to go through this mental, physical, and dare I say spiritual transformation." She brushed that off, "Yeah, you can make any argument you want to make your deviancy sound right." Wtf? No, if my "deviancy" doesn't make sense, I can't just make up a logical argument that actually supports it, sorry.

Your mom will be reincarnated as a slug.

[Syndactyly]

Captain Verd

Syndactyly

I don't see how they're necessarily separating me from men any more by saying "transman" instead of "trans man." Mentioning the trans, no matter how they do it, puts my c**t on display. So if I really don't want to be "separated" I'd rather they just not mention that I am trans at all.

Agreed. As long as trans is there, whether there's a space or not, it means the same thing. Like the difference between a lot and alot. Same thing.

It's validating and comfortable when I am in a group of men and my trans-ness isn't mentiontioned. I've been to quite a few groups that were exclusively for gay men, and since we weren't getting naked, my transition did not need to be mentioned. And it just felt comfortable to be fully accepted as and acknowledged as a man without having my junk verbally shown to everyone. I really would prefer in most situations to be "stealth" unless I am amongst other transgender people, and in that situation I out myself to act as a source of support for them so they don't feel alone in their situation.