To fight what we do not want to become: The Empire Quote

Do you believe it's easier to fall from grace (and become what you are not) then it is to be in grace (and stay true to what you believe)? (BE HONEST)

Agree	72.4%	[ 21 ]
Disagree	27.6%	[ 8 ]
Total Votes:			[ 29 ]

[Sneaker Pimps]

‎"To fight the Empire is to be infected by its derangement ... Whoever defeats the Empire becomes the Empire; it proliferates like a virus ... thereby it becomes its enemies." - The Empire Never Ended - Philip K. d**k

How do we fight the empire if one becomes infected by it?

"Because it's a warning about not becoming what you are against. It's surprisingly easy to fall into the same pitfalls that those you are against have fallen. Visionary thinking (power, sex, money) leads to this."

Discuss (and related topics).

[Heimdalr]

Yes. Invariably, people who have fought or been subjected to great evil will at some point fill the void left by that evil and suffer the same fate. However, the atrocities they commit become incrementally less severe with each cycle, and such is progress in all its sickening glory.

[Sneaker Pimps]

Inconsistent With Reality

Yes. Invariably, people who have fought or been subjected to great evil will at some point fill the void left by that evil and suffer the same fate. However, the atrocities they commit become incrementally less severe with each cycle, and such is progress in all its sickening glory.

"Yes. Invariably, people who have fought or been subjected to great evil will at some point fill the void left by that evil and suffer the same fate." You mean that the person who they hurt or the (entity they hurt) will in turn become the one who causes suffering because of their own suffering?
" However, the atrocities they commit become incrementally less severe with each cycle, and such is progress in all its sickening glory." So the one who has taken the suffering from the tormentor will in turn cause suffering but it is a less powerful suffrage over time as the age of suffering before (or a different kind of suffrage)?

[Riviera de la Mancha]

If you are strong in who you are, it will be almost impossible to become what you are not, while being almost effortless to stay true to what you believe.

Conversely, if you are not in touch with yourself and weakly connected to your sense of self, it will be easy to become what you are not and very difficult to stay true to what you believe.

[Heimdalr]

Sneaker Pimps

Inconsistent With Reality

Yes. Invariably, people who have fought or been subjected to great evil will at some point fill the void left by that evil and suffer the same fate. However, the atrocities they commit become incrementally less severe with each cycle, and such is progress in all its sickening glory.

"Yes. Invariably, people who have fought or been subjected to great evil will at some point fill the void left by that evil and suffer the same fate." You mean that the person who they hurt or the (entity they hurt) will in turn become the one who causes suffering because of their own suffering?
" However, the atrocities they commit become incrementally less severe with each cycle, and such is progress in all its sickening glory." So the one who has taken the suffering from the tormentor will in turn cause suffering but it is a less powerful suffrage over time as the age of suffering before (or a different kind of suffrage)?

It's not always applicable to individual people. I'm thinking revolutionary vanguards, nations, movements. On average people are influenced by atrocity to a reciprocal end, a form of vengeance. Less and less as time goes by, granted.

I'm not sure if I'd use the word suffrage as it denotes something different entirely. smile

[Sneaker Pimps]

Riviera de la Mancha

If you are strong in who you are, it will be almost impossible to become what you are not, while being almost effortless to stay true to what you believe.

Conversely, if you are not in touch with yourself and weakly connected to your sense of self, it will be easy to become what you are not and very difficult to stay true to what you believe.

"If you are strong in who you are, it will be almost impossible to become what you are not, while being almost effortless to stay true to what you believe." Very true however many sadly are not this strong when it comes down to the time when your strength will be tested.

"Conversely, if you are not in touch with yourself and weakly connected to your sense of self, it will be easy to become what you are not and very difficult to stay true to what you believe." Very true but many are not as in touch with themselves as we would like to believe they are. I do not give credit if the credit is not credible. It's not that I don't believe in people it's that people are disappointing most of the time.

[Sneaker Pimps]

Inconsistent With Reality

Sneaker Pimps

Inconsistent With Reality

Yes. Invariably, people who have fought or been subjected to great evil will at some point fill the void left by that evil and suffer the same fate. However, the atrocities they commit become incrementally less severe with each cycle, and such is progress in all its sickening glory.

"Yes. Invariably, people who have fought or been subjected to great evil will at some point fill the void left by that evil and suffer the same fate." You mean that the person who they hurt or the (entity they hurt) will in turn become the one who causes suffering because of their own suffering?
" However, the atrocities they commit become incrementally less severe with each cycle, and such is progress in all its sickening glory." So the one who has taken the suffering from the tormentor will in turn cause suffering but it is a less powerful suffrage over time as the age of suffering before (or a different kind of suffrage)?

It's not always applicable to individual people. I'm thinking revolutionary vanguards, nations, movements. On average people are influenced by atrocity to a reciprocal end, a form of vengeance. Less and less as time goes by, granted.

I'm not sure if I'd use the word suffrage as it denotes something different entirely. smile

"It's not always applicable to individual people. I'm thinking revolutionary vanguards, nations, movements. On average people are influenced by atrocity to a reciprocal end, a form of vengeance. Less and less as time goes by, granted." I see. Elaborate a little more on the italicized part of you would be so kind.

"suffrage as it denotes something different entirely." I understand it's agreeable but explain why you think so?

[Riviera de la Mancha]

Inconsistent With Reality

Yes. Invariably, people who have fought or been subjected to great evil will at some point fill the void left by that evil and suffer the same fate. However, the atrocities they commit become incrementally less severe with each cycle, and such is progress in all its sickening glory.

Yeah... no. The nicest people I have met in my life went through some tough stuff.

[Riviera de la Mancha]

Sneaker Pimps

Riviera de la Mancha

If you are strong in who you are, it will be almost impossible to become what you are not, while being almost effortless to stay true to what you believe.

Conversely, if you are not in touch with yourself and weakly connected to your sense of self, it will be easy to become what you are not and very difficult to stay true to what you believe.

"If you are strong in who you are, it will be almost impossible to become what you are not, while being almost effortless to stay true to what you believe." Very true however many sadly are not this strong when it comes down to the time when your strength will be tested.

"Conversely, if you are not in touch with yourself and weakly connected to your sense of self, it will be easy to become what you are not and very difficult to stay true to what you believe." Very true but many are not as in touch with themselves as we would like to believe they are. I do not give credit if the credit is not credible. It's not that I don't believe in people it's that people are disappointing most of the time.

Cant say how many people are that strong. Never took a study or something.

I believe that people who see so much 'disappointment' often have trouble seeing anything.

[Sneaker Pimps]

Riviera de la Mancha

Sneaker Pimps

Riviera de la Mancha

If you are strong in who you are, it will be almost impossible to become what you are not, while being almost effortless to stay true to what you believe.

Conversely, if you are not in touch with yourself and weakly connected to your sense of self, it will be easy to become what you are not and very difficult to stay true to what you believe.

"If you are strong in who you are, it will be almost impossible to become what you are not, while being almost effortless to stay true to what you believe." Very true however many sadly are not this strong when it comes down to the time when your strength will be tested.

"Conversely, if you are not in touch with yourself and weakly connected to your sense of self, it will be easy to become what you are not and very difficult to stay true to what you believe." Very true but many are not as in touch with themselves as we would like to believe they are. I do not give credit if the credit is not credible. It's not that I don't believe in people it's that people are disappointing most of the time.

Cant say how many people are that strong. Never took a study or something.

I believe that people who see so much 'disappointment' often have trouble seeing anything.

I understand however I don't lack an ability to see. I don't think anybody truly lacks the ability to see. Some are just "turning a blind eye" at times, perhaps.

[Heimdalr]

Sneaker Pimps

Inconsistent With Reality

Sneaker Pimps

Inconsistent With Reality

Yes. Invariably, people who have fought or been subjected to great evil will at some point fill the void left by that evil and suffer the same fate. However, the atrocities they commit become incrementally less severe with each cycle, and such is progress in all its sickening glory.

"Yes. Invariably, people who have fought or been subjected to great evil will at some point fill the void left by that evil and suffer the same fate." You mean that the person who they hurt or the (entity they hurt) will in turn become the one who causes suffering because of their own suffering?
" However, the atrocities they commit become incrementally less severe with each cycle, and such is progress in all its sickening glory." So the one who has taken the suffering from the tormentor will in turn cause suffering but it is a less powerful suffrage over time as the age of suffering before (or a different kind of suffrage)?

It's not always applicable to individual people. I'm thinking revolutionary vanguards, nations, movements. On average people are influenced by atrocity to a reciprocal end, a form of vengeance. Less and less as time goes by, granted.

I'm not sure if I'd use the word suffrage as it denotes something different entirely. smile

"It's not always applicable to individual people. I'm thinking revolutionary vanguards, nations, movements. On average people are influenced by atrocity to a reciprocal end, a form of vengeance. Less and less as time goes by, granted." I see. Elaborate a little more on the italicized part of you would be so kind.

"suffrage as it denotes something different entirely." I understand it's agreeable but explain why you think so?

There's ample evidence in history. Cultural evolution is a slow process. Robespierre's Reign of Terror, Lenin's Great Purge, Mao's Great Leap Forward, all of them turned into a regime where blood flowed as easily as money. They rule as they were taught to rule, because they knew of no other way. And even when taking these into account, they were generally better than their predecessors.

[Sneaker Pimps]

Riviera de la Mancha

Inconsistent With Reality

Yes. Invariably, people who have fought or been subjected to great evil will at some point fill the void left by that evil and suffer the same fate. However, the atrocities they commit become incrementally less severe with each cycle, and such is progress in all its sickening glory.

Yeah... no. The nicest people I have met in my life went through some tough stuff.

Some times there is a darkness within people that we cannot see at first but nevertheless it is there. It is within us all, whether we want to admit it or not.

[Heimdalr]

Riviera de la Mancha

Inconsistent With Reality

Yes. Invariably, people who have fought or been subjected to great evil will at some point fill the void left by that evil and suffer the same fate. However, the atrocities they commit become incrementally less severe with each cycle, and such is progress in all its sickening glory.

Yeah... no. The nicest people I have met in my life went through some tough stuff.

I was referring to large-scale political achievements, sorry for not clarifying.

[Sneaker Pimps]

Inconsistent With Reality

Sneaker Pimps

Inconsistent With Reality

Sneaker Pimps

Inconsistent With Reality

Yes. Invariably, people who have fought or been subjected to great evil will at some point fill the void left by that evil and suffer the same fate. However, the atrocities they commit become incrementally less severe with each cycle, and such is progress in all its sickening glory.

"Yes. Invariably, people who have fought or been subjected to great evil will at some point fill the void left by that evil and suffer the same fate." You mean that the person who they hurt or the (entity they hurt) will in turn become the one who causes suffering because of their own suffering?
" However, the atrocities they commit become incrementally less severe with each cycle, and such is progress in all its sickening glory." So the one who has taken the suffering from the tormentor will in turn cause suffering but it is a less powerful suffrage over time as the age of suffering before (or a different kind of suffrage)?

It's not always applicable to individual people. I'm thinking revolutionary vanguards, nations, movements. On average people are influenced by atrocity to a reciprocal end, a form of vengeance. Less and less as time goes by, granted.

I'm not sure if I'd use the word suffrage as it denotes something different entirely. smile

"It's not always applicable to individual people. I'm thinking revolutionary vanguards, nations, movements. On average people are influenced by atrocity to a reciprocal end, a form of vengeance. Less and less as time goes by, granted." I see. Elaborate a little more on the italicized part of you would be so kind.

"suffrage as it denotes something different entirely." I understand it's agreeable but explain why you think so?

There's ample evidence in history. Cultural evolution is a slow process. Robespierre's Reign of Terror, Lenin's Great Purge, Mao's Great Leap Forward, all of them turned into a regime where blood flowed as easily as money. They rule as they were taught to rule, because they knew of no other way. And even when taking these into account, they were generally better than their predecessors.

"There's ample evidence in history. Cultural evolution is a slow process." I agree there is plenty of evidence, some may not be credited as exactly evidence by all but yes their is evidence.

Thank you for the examples.

[Eveille]

I think it is because it is rarely the case that someone with integrity is all of a sudden leaving the house and gets the idea to join a crime syndicate and kill people.

More like someone goes and does their job and slowly, incrementally and without their notice they are asked to do meaner and crueler things over the course of the job. Since it is just a job, who cares right? So they do what their bosses ask them because 'it isn't really that bad' and well the next time 'o this is like last time, so it's still ok...'. and Slowly slowly they are eaten up until they are making decisions and signing documents that they never would have believed they would do had those things been asked of them on their first week.

There is always some justification for falling away from your values and it is rarely easy to see just when the 'moment' happened.

An actual real life example, those workers for the UN peacekeepers in Rwanda in the 90s, at the time of the genocide. They were probably good people, they were running clinics and helping out and generally doing good things in the area. The genocide came and they got orders to gtfo of there or they would die. They did. They left their villages and community centers and went home for a while. When they came back those same places were littered with bodies that they didn't even attempt to save. Would they have imaged that when they signed up to run clinics in Africa they would be part and parcel of a genocide through inaction and fear? Probably not, and yet that is how it ended up.