Welcome to Gaia! ::


Fanatical Zealot

The Truth about Climate Change
There is no argument; the climate is changing, quite quickly in fact. The Quaternary extinction, present just 13,000 years ago, saw the extinction of nearly 75% of the world's megafuana; animals, such as mammoths, which had been around for over 40 million years and survived multiple ice ages, have now died off, in just a relatively short time, meaning this shifting ice age cycle has been considerably more extreme, and very much unlike the others. While it is still debated whether we are still in an ice age or this is the end, what is for sure is that the climate has changed rapidly, so quickly in fact that it has caused a mass extinction, the largest until the extinction of the dinosaurs, 65 million years ago. Most the ice on the earth is below sea level, or under water, as the glaciers have largely disappeared. These different warming and cooling periods are believed, largely, to be due to orbital cycles (Milankovitch cycles), when the earth takes a much more elliptical pattern than usual and is farther or closer away from the sun, thus causing the earth to lose more of the sun's light, and cool down. While this process takes thousands of years and only changes the earth's temperature by a few degrees, (9 degrees Celsius, 20 degrees Fahrenheit in the latest ice age), it can have a tremendous effect on the earth's climate, turning temperate areas into glaciers, and deserts into rainforest, and rainforests into... normal forests. It is an incredibly important period, and this most recent change has been one of the most significant changes in the biosphere since 67 million years ago (the extinction of the dinosaurs). We are basically right at the end of the last major extinction on earth.

However, there tends to be a lot of misconceptions about climate change, or perhaps more accurately, Anthropomorphic carbon dioxide driven global warming. While ordinarily I would start with the most important scientific aspects first to allow people to get a fundamental grasp on the subject, I figure it would be best to start with what, at least I consider, to be the least important, or "petty" aspects first, as they will probably appear to be the most convincing arguments. So, here we go, the truth about "climate change", or "Anthropomorphic carbon dioxide driven global warming".


Anthropomorphic carbon dioxide driven global warming- We will run out of fossil fuels before these events are possible
The worst part of the supposed Anthropomorphic carbon dioxide driven global warming is to be the effects it will bring. The earth will become scorching hot, lakes will all dry up, and we'll be left with no water, and yet everything will be simultaneously flooded, and even according to some, winters will be even colder. While this doomsday apocalypse might be a convincing reason to change human behavior and stop global warming, it is mostly an exaggeration. At best, over the next 200 years, the IPCC claims that they earth may warm by 2-4 degrees Celsius, which is largely considered negligible. [1]

We are just out of a mini ice age, that made the earth 1 degree cooler than it was supposed to be; this effect was largely considered inconsequential. Should the earth warm another 2 degrees after this, it's effects are also likely to be minuscule, as we would be approximately a degree warmer than "average"; even a few degrees over average is largely irrelevant. The IPCC does claim however that after a 2 degrees Celsius increase, most of the perceived bad effects of global warming will begin occurring if we assume the worst case scenario.

However, this is unlikely to happen or even be possible. The IPCC's predicted carbon dioxide levels are based on the current rate of consumption of fossil fuels; it assumes two things, that people will keep consuming fossil fuels, and that our rate of consumption will increase with a further industrialized population, and more people in general. There are however, simply not enough fossil fuels left on the earth to warrant this; The world has roughly, in proven reserves, 1,324 billion barrels of oil, 300 trillion cubic meters of natural gas and 860 billion tons of coal.[1][2][3] The worldwide consumption of oil is roughly some 31.4 billion barrels per year, while worldwide consumption of natural gas is roughly 3.2 trillion cubic meters a year, and the worldwide consumption of coal is roughly 7.25 billion tonnes. At the current rate of consumption, this would mean running out of gasoline in 42 years, natural gas in 93.75, and coal in roughly 118 years. Gasoline represents some 40% of total fossil fuel consumption, and in 2008 energy by supply was oil 33.5%, coal 26.8%, gas 20.8%, out of the total energy consumption. [1]

Essentially, we barely have another 100 years worth of fossil fuels, and less than 50 years worth for oil, at our current rate of consumption. For the levels to increase drastically by the estimates proposed by the most extreme assertions of members within the IPCC, would require more fossil fuels to be available than are actually on earth. Unless some major unknown reserve of fossil fuels are found by these time frames, we will simply not have enough fossil fuels to reach this predicted time frame at the predicted rates of consumption (which by itself, is considered to be the start of our problems). Furthermore, not all the reserves are available for fossil fuel extraction or could be prohibitively expensive, reducing the total figure available to us. The estimates assume the worst case scenario, as improved technology could increase the efficiency of energy production substantially, thus reducing consumption (along with industrialized populations comes not just raw energy consumption, but a stabilized population that does not grow exponentially, and that benefits from improved technology, of which includes more energy efficient devices). With the increased use alternative fuel sources, and other potential reasons for fossil fuel consumption being lowered, it is unlikely that we would ever actually reach these levels.



Carbon Dioxide in general
Carbon dioxide has a life between 5 and 200 years [1]; while this is a relatively broad spectrum of time to consider it's impact, it more or less only tends to have a half life of about 31 years in our atmosphere assuming it isn't absorbed by a carbon sink (I.E. decays from other natural factors, such as degradation by sunlight). If humanity stopped producing carbon dioxide, today, then most of our contributions would disappear in 31 years (as some of it in the atmosphere is already over 30 years old) and thus in double that time most of what we produced today would be gone. According to the IPCC, if we reduced our emissions production to roughly half the amount it is currently, then carbon dioxide levels would not only stop increasing, but also begin to decrease [1]. There are enough natural carbon sinks, such as the ocean, vegetation, algae, and other organisms to absorb the carbon dioxide, to absorb enough of our emissions to make it to where, halving our current amount would stop the supposed problems all together. As long as we stay below this level, our emission levels will more or less be negligible. While our atmosphere has approximately 20.9% oxygen by volume, it has only approximately .04% carbon dioxide; despite this, a large portion of life, including bacteria, trees, algae, and other forms of vegetation, produce virtually all the oxygen on earth necessitated by life. There is a substantial amount of room for carbon dioxide in our atmosphere, and if carbon dioxide and oxygen breathing creatures produced the same ratio of exhalation in the atmosphere, there could be hundreds of times the current amount. Because of the volume and efficiency of carbon dioxide breathing life, there is hardly any carbon dioxide in our atmosphere, despite the abundance of their by product, oxygen, and creatures that consume it; thus, more carbon dioxide can easily be absorbed by this life given the appropriate time span, with little repercussions.

This may surprise some people, but 75% of the warming of the earth is expected to come from water vapor. Water Vapor is the biggest greenhouse gas on earth, representing over 98% of the earth's greenhouse gases by volume. While water vapor is believed to contribute to the largest secondary effects of warming (as the earth warms due to the Milankovitch cycles, more water vapor will be created by the increased temperature; more water vapor will produce even higher temperatures, and thus even more water vapor, although it will not become a runaway greenhouse effect and warm the earth infinitely since it's effects minor compared to the orbital cycle warming). One particular problem with water vapor warming is the production of clouds; clouds reflect light and other radiation back into space, preventing them from reaching the earth's surface. While this cools the earth down, it more importantly prevents the global warming effect by preventing light from changing spectrums (into the infrared) when reflected by the earth's surface and thus being absorbed by greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. Thus, while water vapor can warm up the planet, it also will cool down the planet a certain amount, as well. This figure is not exactly known; according the IPCC, the calculations for predicting cloud production are impossible to carry through with, since even the best super computers can only model 9 clouds at a given time, let alone the earth's entire climate and biosphere. Thus, the IPCC ignores what cloud production will do, and is invariably, and admittingly, always going to be over predicting what the temperature will do. This is exponential, as more water vapor means more heat, which means more water vapor, and thus more heat; cutting down on heat levels exponentially reduces the temperature, thus making it, likely far below the maximum predicted levels. The IPCC does not claim to have perfect knowledge, but at least 40-60% of the estimated temperature increase will be mitigated by increased cloud production. Therefore, the chances of the earth reaching these levels in 200 years decreases substantially, as does the impact of global warming.



97% of scientists believe everything you have read about global warming on the internet
While this feels somewhat silly to address, it appears as if a large chunk of the population read from, more or less, random news articles, that "97% of scientists support climate change", which has got me thinking about what a preposterous idea that it is. First, not everything you read about global warming on the internet is true; the concept of it melting the polar ice caps or changing weather is more or less questionable at best, since weather is believed to ultimately stabilize at warmer temperatures. Since the IPCC, that is the international panel on climate change, the leading experts and the source of whom the United Nation cites (albeit the protocols and supposed measures being put forth being a little more political than they should be), claim that little will change in the next 200 years even assuming the worst case scenario, there more or less is no major effects expected by global warming until that point (as which described above is more or less impossible to reach). Thus the concept of increased hurricanes and droughts and such right now due to the supposed effects of climate change are more or less a media frenzy, and do not reflect real scientific opinion on the subject. In fact, most major scientific organizations are trying not to be alarmist, and want to educate the public so they believe that recent events can be blamed on it's existence or non existence (I.E. one hot summer or cold winter doesn't justify or disprove climate change).

More or less, there is a tendency among global warming advocates to claim near unanimous support by "scientists" for global warming. Figures ranging from 75 to 97, to 98% are not uncommon among many media sources.[1][2][3][8]

The very concept of 98 or 97% of all scientists agreeing on something seems questionable, at least to me, from beginning. The scientific community still cannot on the absolute validity of relativity, newtonian mechanics, and quantum mechanics, and the emerging fields have created discoveries so profound they've equated the developments as if having godlike importance. How would one poll 98% of scientists; by population, 20% of the world's population are in China, and China has some strong opinions against global warming, so it couldn't be 97% of scientists then; what of India, or other such countries with a large amount of people, and thus scientists? What question was asked, specifically; climate change, global warming, anthropomorphic global warming, anthropomorphic climate change, whether or not it should be immediately dealt with, whether or not the effects will be severe, carbon dioxide driven global warming? Is it a big enough issue to be dealt with, are fossil fuels the primary cause, is it simply changing things slightly? How big is the impact, does it warrant immediate attention? Which theory do they believe in specifically? These questions are all important to determining the ramifications of the effects.

How do we determine what is a "scientist"? Is it someone who studies science; by the vagueness of these and the impact science has on the world, do we mean science as the body of knowledge humans have collected, or the more archaic science as the actual world itself? Either way, this means that practically the entire population could count as a scientist; is it someone who uses the scientific method? Anyone with a science degree; what about students, getting a degree? Who counts as a scientist; do we mean, climatologists? Climatologists specifically studying global warming; and if so, shouldn't we look at the scientific data instead of asking a very vague and perhaps illogical question? Was it anyone who attended a particular science convention during a particular time frame?

The notion itself is quite skeptical to begin with, regardless of whether or not we seek the basis of it; by which poll did they did, how did they do it? The nature of their decisions on how they decided provides broader implications than the answers themselves, since this ultimately determines what they mean. A unanimous acceptance of man made global warming also doesn't determine the impacts or if we should support politically charged doctrines like the Koyoto protocol.


The actual Study
The legitimacy of unanimous support boils down to the actual study or polling done to determine whether or not 98%, or 97% of scientists legitimately support climate change. Skeptical science [2], The Guardian [3], the New York times [1], and even CNN [7] utilized the same study in their report. The study does not try to confirm a global consensus on anthropomorphic climate change, it's impacts, or the actual science behind them. It merely attempts to assert that a percentage of scientists agree that humans are having some impact on climate change, or more specifically global warming.

"We find that 66.4% of abstracts expressed no position on AGW, 32.6% endorsed AGW, 0.7% rejected AGW and 0.3% were uncertain about the cause of global warming. Among abstracts expressing a position on AGW, 97.1% endorsed the consensus position that humans are causing global warming. In a second phase of this study, we invited authors to rate their own papers. Compared to abstract ratings, a smaller percentage of self-rated papers expressed no position on AGW (35.5%). Among self-rated papers expressing a position on AGW, 97.2% endorsed the consensus. For both abstract ratings and authors' self-ratings, the percentage of endorsements among papers expressing a position on AGW marginally increased over time. Our analysis indicates that the number of papers rejecting the consensus on AGW is a vanishingly small proportion of the published research."

The actual study did an "analysis to 11 944 papers written by 29 083 authors and published in 1980 journals", all particularly chosen. Out of this, 32.6% endorsed AGW, 97.2% of the authors endorsed the position. I don't find this to be particularly surprising, but I don't think it proves a global consensus on global warming. " A team of 12 individuals completed 97.4% (23 061) of the ratings; an additional 12 contributed the remaining 2.6% (607)." A team of 12 which apparently believes AGW is significant, no doubt? Furthermore, one of the peer reviewers were the author themselves; no conflict of interest there. Unfortunately, peer reviewing only has as much as merit as the peers; while we can argue the conflict of interest among the reviewers without real objective verification, 12 people do not equal the entire planet, or the vast majority of the body of scientists or climatologists. Furthermore, this peer reviewing was not done by a major scientific institution, such as the International Counsel of Science, the National Science Foundation, and many more like it. It cannot then, be considered as legitimate evidence proving that 97% of "scientists" support the position of the makers of the study. Nor were the actual details of what that position was explored.

In any case, the concept that many people have an opinion on a subject is not scientific proof of global warming or climate change or human involvement. The actual data needs to be explored to come to a true logical and factual basis.

Fanatical Zealot

How Greenhouse gases Work
Global warming works in many ways, but the predominate effect is through infrared radiation absorption. The Ozone layer blocks much of the UV that comes to earth. Visible radiation going through the earth's atmosphere, and a small amount of low frequency UV, is absorbed and then reflected back up by the earth into the Atmosphere at much lower frequencies, or in the infrared spectrum, of which is absorbed by greenhouse gases which don't absorb much visible light, including water vapor. Greenhouse gases absorb and then reflect or re-radiate the infrared radiation, which is produced by the earth from visible light and other forms of radiation, in nearly all directions, some of it down, back towards earth which prolongs it's time in the atmosphere and warms up the earth.[1][2][3]

The atmosphere is comprised predominately of oxygen and nitrogen, which make up 78.1% and 20.9% of the atmosphere respectively, with the approximately 1% remaining made almost entirely of argon, with a few trace elements left. Water vapor is the most abundant greenhouse gas, with roughly 20,000 parts per million in the atmosphere, compared to about 400 ppm for carbon dioxide, or is 50 times more voluminous than carbon dioxide. This makes the effect of carbon dioxide relatively minor in comparison to the effect of water vapor and other more powerful greenhouse gases, near the surface.[1][2][3][4][5]

According the IPCC, the global warming potential of a greenhouse gas (GWP) is measured in it's carbon dioxide equivalency. Natural gas, or methane, is about 72 times more powerful than carbon dioxide, Nitrous Oxide 289, and Sulfur hexafluoride 16,300 times more powerful; according the IPCC, water had too short of an life in the atmosphere and fluctuated too much with temperatures to get an accurate reading on.

However, ozone is around 1000 times more powerful than carbon dioxide, and most ozone only persists in the atmosphere for about 30 minutes.[1][2][3] Water vapor, which lasts for 9 days and is fairly consistent in the atmosphere, wasn't included. Thus determining it's relative importance to carbon dioxide in terms of warming at the surface was left out. Despite the fact that water vapor is often cited as a powerful "feedback" mechanism for increasing temperatures; the predominate effect of carbon dioxide is thought to be the resulting increase in water vapor.[1][2][3]

However, the IPCC states that if carbon dioxide levels increase from 280 ppm to 560 ppm (double) that temperatures will stably increase by 1 degree Celsius. This resulting temperature increase would theoretically increase the water vapor in the atmosphere by approximately 7%, thus warming up the planet another 2 degrees Celsius; the water vapor would not create exponentially more water vapor, supposedly, because the CO2 levels would be stable while the water vapor wouldn't be. A 7% increase in water vapor with a relative average of about 20,000 ppm would be a 1,400 ppm increase. 1400 /280 is exactly 5. Since water vapor would have roughly double the effect of carbon dioxide, water vapor should theoretically in turn increase the earth's temperature 1/2.5 times as much as carbon dioxide, or 40% as much as carbon dioxide. Since there is 50 times as much carbon dioxide as water vapor, this should put the effect of water vapor at roughly 95% of the effect of greenhouse gases, excluding the minor amounts generated by trace greenhouse gases. Thus it's total impact would still be minor.

Infrared absorption seems to otherwise be the key factor in determining relative strength when excluding carbon dioxide.



Carbon dioxide Conundrum
However, the reality is somewhat more complex for the carbon dioxide driven greenhouse effect. The atmosphere near the surface is largely opaque to thermal or infrared radiation (with exceptions for "window" bands which let some of the heat through), and most heat loss from the surface is by sensible heat and latent heat transport, or more or less direct heat transfer. [1][2][3] Radiative energy losses become increasingly important higher in the atmosphere largely because of the decreasing concentration of water vapor, an important greenhouse gas. It is more realistic to think of the most powerful greenhouse effect, with carbon dioxide, as applying to a "surface" in the mid-troposphere, which is effectively coupled to the surface by a lapse rate. This particular area of carbon dioxide is far more important on the warming effect of the earth than it otherwise would be as a greenhouse gas due it's increased concentration and the lack of interaction from the water reflecting most of the infrared back down. [1][2][3][4][5][6]

If carbon dioxide does not reach this layer, which carbon dioxide produced from the surface, such as with cars and animals, rarely does, since it is denser than air and clumps at the surface and even in the mid troposphere,[1][2][3][4] it has little effect on this form of the greenhouse effect, making it relatively unimportant, which due to it's small amount in comparison, makes it relatively negligible. Unless the carbon dioxide reaches this layer in the mid troposphere, which being heavier than the atmosphere and clumping mostly to the surface due to the fact it does not diffuse through it, let alone uniformly, it's effect is relatively negligible. Due to the manner in which it reflects radiation back down, this surface in the mid troposphere is much thicker than is required to warm the earth; because so little gets past the surface of this band of carbon dioxide, increasing the thickness of this layer would also be mostly negligible in warming the surface. It's as a result of this that increasing carbon dioxide levels, produced from cars, fires, and other man made objects, are possible, if not likely to be relatively insignificant. [1][2][3]

In other words, the total volume of carbon dioxide is not the worry, but it's distribution. Since it does coat practically all of the mid troposphere, albeit unevenly, and with important exceptions for window bands, it reflects nearly all of the of radiation that can be reflected (predominately in the infrared spectrum) back down. This suggests that increasing levels of carbon dioxide will have an indirect effect on planetary warming; as long as there is a near complete cover of the earth's mid-tropospheric Atmosphere, even unevenly, forming a virtual wall, it will reflect most of the infrared back down; increasing levels do not necessarily change it's effects, as evidenced by how it operates and satellites which have proven no increase of temperatures over areas with higher carbon dioxide levels in their specific mid-tropospheric regions. In other words, while some areas have increased and decreased carbon dioxide levels, the levels do not seem to be affecting temperatures specifically in these areas nearly at all. [1][2][3][4]

Indeed, it was originally assumed carbon dioxide had a near even spread partially as a result of this near even infrared reflection. [1][2][3] Areas with higher carbon dioxide levels do not tend to necessarily produce more heat. Areas over the equator tend to have less carbon dioxide than areas in temperate zones, yet their temperatures are often higher[1]. While important to the global warming cycle, relative power cannot be measured on a unit to unit basis; indeed, the carbon dioxide in the ocean and near the surface is considered less important than that of which is higher up in the atmosphere and that of which is in the mid troposphere. The importance of carbon dioxide in the greenhouse cycle is not dependent on amount, but distribution in the atmosphere; this also means that increasing the amount in important areas of distribution will likely have a negligible effect on warming. This means increasing levels, if they do increase, will likely have negligible effects except for surface increases, of which carbon dioxide is one of the weakest greenhouse gases in comparison to natural gas, nitrous oxide, and even water vapor in this form. It is therefore not exactly accurately to tie increasing temperatures with carbon dioxide levels.


Research Data
However, the reality is somewhat more complex for the carbon dioxide driven greenhouse effect. The atmosphere near the surface is largely opaque to thermal or infrared radiation (with exceptions for "window" bands which let some of the heat through), and most heat loss from the surface is by sensible heat and latent heat transport, or more or less direct heat transfer. [1][2][3] Radiative energy losses become increasingly important higher in the atmosphere largely because of the decreasing concentration of water vapor, an important greenhouse gas. It is more realistic to think of the most powerful greenhouse effect, with carbon dioxide, as applying to a "surface" in the mid-troposphere, which is effectively coupled to the surface by a lapse rate. This particular area of carbon dioxide is far more important on the warming effect of the earth than it otherwise would be as a greenhouse gas due it's increased concentration and the lack of interaction from the water reflecting most of the infrared back down. [1][2][3][4][5][6]

If carbon dioxide does not reach this layer, which carbon dioxide produced from the surface, such as with cars and animals, rarely does, since it is denser than air and clumps at the surface and even in the mid troposphere,[1][2][3][4] it has little effect on this form of the greenhouse effect, making it relatively unimportant, which due to it's small amount in comparison, makes it relatively negligible. Unless the carbon dioxide reaches this layer in the mid troposphere, which being heavier than the atmosphere and clumping mostly to the surface due to the fact it does not diffuse through it, let alone uniformly, it's effect is relatively negligible. Due to the manner in which it reflects radiation back down, this surface in the mid troposphere is much thicker than is required to warm the earth; because so little gets past the surface of this band of carbon dioxide, increasing the thickness of this layer would also be mostly negligible in warming the surface. It's as a result of this that increasing carbon dioxide levels, produced from cars, fires, and other man made objects, are possible, if not likely to be relatively insignificant. [1][2][3]

In other words, the total volume of carbon dioxide is not the worry, but it's distribution. Since it does coat practically all of the mid troposphere, albeit unevenly, and with important exceptions for window bands, it reflects nearly all of the of radiation that can be reflected (predominately in the infrared spectrum) back down. This suggests that increasing levels of carbon dioxide will have an indirect effect on planetary warming; as long as there is a near complete cover of the earth's mid-tropospheric Atmosphere, even unevenly, forming a virtual wall, it will reflect most of the infrared back down; increasing levels do not necessarily change it's effects, as evidenced by how it operates and satellites which have proven no increase of temperatures over areas with higher carbon dioxide levels in their specific mid-tropospheric regions. In other words, while some areas have increased and decreased carbon dioxide levels, the levels do not seem to be affecting temperatures specifically in these areas nearly at all. [1][2][3][4]

Indeed, it was originally assumed carbon dioxide had a near even spread partially as a result of this near even infrared reflection. [1][2][3] Areas with higher carbon dioxide levels do not tend to necessarily produce more heat. Areas over the equator tend to have less carbon dioxide than areas in temperate zones, yet their temperatures are often higher[1]. While important to the global warming cycle, relative power cannot be measured on a unit to unit basis; indeed, the carbon dioxide in the ocean and near the surface is considered less important than that of which is higher up in the atmosphere and that of which is in the mid troposphere. The importance of carbon dioxide in the greenhouse cycle is not dependent on amount, but distribution in the atmosphere; this also means that increasing the amount in important areas of distribution will likely have a negligible effect on warming. This means increasing levels, if they do increase, will likely have negligible effects except for surface increases, of which carbon dioxide is one of the weakest greenhouse gases in comparison to natural gas, nitrous oxide, and even water vapor in this form. It is therefore not exactly accurately to tie increasing temperatures with carbon dioxide levels.


Research Data
There are also a lot more radiative energy losses in this carbon dioxide zone than has been suggested by the IPCC, as well. According to some individuals at NASA, it's significantly less. While the carbon dioxide reflects virtually all the infrared back down to earth, only about 50% of the radiation produced by the earth is infrared and a certain percentage of the energy is lost as latent and sensible heat, reducing it's effects, in addition to the fact that heat is absorbed by the atmosphere, which is then lost by it's expulsion. Even assuming an increase would have a significant effect, it would be much, much less, as a result. Even while NASA proclaims the importance of carbon dioxide in the warming cycle, it does not state that increasing it will have a significant effect. -??[1][Remote Sensing PDF]

Carbon dioxide levels taken from ice core drilling are routinely used to measure temperatures of previous ages. There is a connection between warm weather and carbon dioxide, but it is not the carbon dioxide causing the warming. When the oceans warm, the amount of carbon dioxide dissolved into them decreases, due to the fact that warmer waters cannot store as much carbon dioxide in them, much like how colder carbon dioxide drinks stay fizzier longer (warm drinks can, but they have to be held under pressure, which is why warm soft drinks often explode in the heat). As a result, carbon dioxide is released as a result of the oceans warming, which serves as a good measurement when relative measures are taken from ice core drilling to figure out carbon dioxide levels, influence by the ocean, since over 70% of the carbon dioxide released is from the ocean.[1][2][3][4][5][6] It should be noted that since carbon dioxide increases when it's warm, and not the other way around, that carbon dioxide released into the atmosphere does not exponentially warm the earth or else no cooling events would happen; if anything, the carbon dioxide release from the oceans after a warming event would seem to cool it down, since it has cooled since these times, compounding the issue of carbon dioxide being predominately responsible for the warming. If carbon dioxide did result in change, and the majority of it comes from the oceans based on their current temperatures, then where did the rest of the carbon dioxide come from? ...?

The oceans rising due to thermal expansion and the melting of the ice caps is also silly. Most ice in the oceans are stored under water[1][2][3], and water expands when frozen, suggesting that the ice melting under water, if anything, should decrease the ocean's levels. As well, the maximum density of water occurs at 3.98 °C (39.16 °F), while it expands while under 0 degrees Celsius, or while frozen. While the surface temperature is often some 60 degrees, the water beneath the surface makes up the most significant portion of water, and on average is some 0 °C (32 °F) to 3 °C (37 °F). This means that unless we have a sudden, extremely sharp change or increase in temperature, the ocean levels should actually decrease slightly from slightly increase heat, and not rise, if a significant change will occur at all, simply due to the vastness of the ocean and the somewhat irrelevant nature of atmospheric temperatures in relation. [1][2][3]

So, increasing surface carbon dioxide levels will have a negligible effect in warming the surface. Definitely not anything as high as a degree or so even if the next 100 years. However, if it were a result of a carbon dioxide driven greenhouse effect, we'd see a rise of temperature in the mid troposphere proportional to that on the surface. Do we?

Well, no. Satellites and weather balloons have documented little if any change[1][2][3][4]; even the IPCC's satellite documented little change[1][2]. The IPCC's official stance on the situation is there is "net spurious cooling". However, looking at the satellite data, it was possible to come up with a possible conclusion for why there seemed to be little if any change. It was possible that the orbital decay calculations on the satellite were off as it got closer to the atmosphere and eventually fall back through due to the earth's gravity increasing exponentially as it neared and due to atmospheric distortions from increased solar periods increasing UV and effects on the atmosphere. The problem with these calculations are, that orbital decay was already calculated for; assuming we were to recalculate this, the belief was that, as the satellite got closer to earth, the view of the satellite would be off due to the curvature of the earth. However, Microwave Sounding Unit data doesn't necessarily change with the angle of incidence to the earth, since there is a varied gigahert and aperture range. It's possible there would be less coverage of the earth, although this would simply present less data, and not necessarily a more negative trend (unless a series of coincidences were to occur). For all intents and purposes, if it did, it would suggest that the mid troposphere was warming more than it should have. As the angle of incidence increases with the earth, this would take the microwave sounding data longer to get to get from the satellite to the earth and back, given that the angle from the satellite to the ground would increase, hence increasing the length of the virtual hypotenuse. As a result, microwave data would take longer to get to the satellite, indicating what could be perceived as a longer hertz range, or a decrease in air pressure, which could be perceived the result of warming, and air expanding. (This impact would likely be negligible, however). In any case, this would require the orbital decay of the satellite to nearly have exactly matched the temperature change on the surface of the earth, proportionally, which has not been recorded by any other satellite, weather balloon, and would be increasingly improbable. Even if somehow it was slightly off in a perfect direction, with every satellite and weather balloon's temperature gauges perfectly slightly off to measure virtually the same temperature for random and various reasons, all evidence gathered to come to this conclusion would be scientifically and mathematically unfounded, suggesting a still unexplained cause for something that happened to effect every satellite and weather balloon equally, suggesting a far larger issue with a lack of the fundamental understanding of specific sciences that would compound the issue far beyond the scope of global warming, meaning global warming would be the least of our worries.

To directly compare MSU2R with radiosondes, a surface temperature layer is added to the radiosonde layers, and a vertical integration over all layers is done to compute and effective MUS2R trend of -0.02K per decade, instead of -0.05K, which is closer agreement with the observed +.07K per decade trend. Even so it still displays a negative trend; decreasing or not, essentially the aspect is, the mid tropospheric data is not complete nor indicative of being where global warming would suggest even over compensating for heat, which gives a much higher heat increase than would be expected, as well. Basically, the data does not suggest an increase in global warming as a result of the carbon dioxide in the mid troposphere, and potentially even records the opposite effect. [1][2][3]

While orbital decay could theoretically be compensated for, it does not negate the satellite data, as at best it is still cooling -.02K per decade, according to that data.

Even if the changes are "spurious", they could still exist, so the data should not be construed to reflect a predicted model, in any case.

Fanatical Zealot

The implications
Running out of fossil fuels*

The Green Party

Fanatical Zealot

Supposed impacts
Glacial ice melting
Thermal Expansion of the ocean
Effect on the weather


But what of Venus?!
Venus has some odd 96.5% of their atmosphere being carbon dioxide, while at max earth is some 0.038% carbon dioxide (or 380 ppm). This automatically produces a 2540 times difference of carbon dioxide between Earth and Venus; considering that it's atmosphere is some 93 times more massive, this puts the carbon dioxide levels at roughly 236,620, or 230,000 times more than earth. Assuming Venus is 800 degrees warmer (which it is less than this), this would only mean a .00347 increase in temperature for doubling the earth's carbon dioxide.[1]

It should be noted however that Venus's carbon dioxide likely came after the warming effect, when the oceans evaporated and dissociated into hydrogen and oxygen due to solar radiation, and that very little light reaches Venus's surface since it is reflected, the atmosphere is incredibly thick, and the impact of carbon dioxide is minimal.

Not that Venus is necessarily a good analogue for earth.

Fanatical Zealot

TL;DR

The concept that 97% of scientists believe global warming is an important thing to focus on, is complete crap. Even if it was true, peer pressure arguments are illegitimate; a bunch of people said that a bunch of people said that a bunch of people heard, is not a very good argument; why not focus on scientific data from climatologists, not the opinion, of, somehow magically, nearly every "scientist" on the planet? Most climatologists don't want to come off as alarmist and do not promote immediate political change. We simply could not get enough fossil fuels from planet earth to get to the maximum estimated carbon dioxide levels predicted with the worst case scenario, and at the worst case scenario, there would be a 2 degree Celsius increase, which according the IPCC, would largely be negligible. The weather isn't going to get crazy, the polar ice caps aren't going to melt, and even if they were going to, it would begin over 200 years from now. The sensationalist media information about how X hurricane was caused by global warming is not only completely unfounded but would be impossible to know, since which hurricane was actually caused by global warming would be a wild guess, as with a 10% increase, only 1 in 10 of hurricanes would be caused by global warming, and not all of them. So that's a crazy thing to posture.

The green parties policies are counter productive, and should instead focus on more efficient means of energy production and restricting more pertinent pollution such as heavy metals and toxic by products than carbon dioxide. Their proposed solutions would end up consuming more fossil fuels then they would reduce, and ignore other issues that would still need to be addressed by their actions. We need to start moving away or making more efficient use of fossil fuels, but politics tends to get in the way of that, and there is a lot of false information spread around in the general media.

Dapper Reveler

I don't really read long posts. Also why post it if it wasn't done yet?

Fanatical Zealot

Avgvsto
I don't really read long posts. Also why post it if it wasn't done yet?


I got bored of not having it done already so I thought I'd post it AND give people some heads up time to gather their intel and such. xp

Dapper Reveler

Suicidesoldier#1
Avgvsto
I don't really read long posts. Also why post it if it wasn't done yet?


I got bored of not having it done already so I thought I'd post it AND give people some heads up time to gather their intel and such. xp
I'm always bored.

Fanatical Zealot

Avgvsto
Suicidesoldier#1
Avgvsto
I don't really read long posts. Also why post it if it wasn't done yet?


I got bored of not having it done already so I thought I'd post it AND give people some heads up time to gather their intel and such. xp
I'm always bored.


Exactly.

Got to keep yourself interested, and in the game!

Dapper Reveler

Suicidesoldier#1
Avgvsto
Suicidesoldier#1
Avgvsto
I don't really read long posts. Also why post it if it wasn't done yet?


I got bored of not having it done already so I thought I'd post it AND give people some heads up time to gather their intel and such. xp
I'm always bored.


Exactly.

Got to keep yourself interested, and in the game!
Yeah I'm going to commit suicide today.

Fanatical Zealot

Avgvsto
Suicidesoldier#1
Avgvsto
Suicidesoldier#1
Avgvsto
I don't really read long posts. Also why post it if it wasn't done yet?


I got bored of not having it done already so I thought I'd post it AND give people some heads up time to gather their intel and such. xp
I'm always bored.


Exactly.

Got to keep yourself interested, and in the game!
Yeah I'm going to commit suicide today.


lol rofl

Well, suicide is never the answer; you should instead devote your life to something, since that's basically like suicide anyways, and BE A SUICIDE SOLDIER!

Dapper Reveler

Suicidesoldier#1
Avgvsto
Suicidesoldier#1
Avgvsto
Suicidesoldier#1
Avgvsto
I don't really read long posts. Also why post it if it wasn't done yet?


I got bored of not having it done already so I thought I'd post it AND give people some heads up time to gather their intel and such. xp
I'm always bored.


Exactly.

Got to keep yourself interested, and in the game!
Yeah I'm going to commit suicide today.


lol rofl

Well, suicide is never the answer; you should instead devote your life to something, since that's basically like suicide anyways, and BE A SUICIDE SOLDIER!
Since you've told me that I've donated all my money to charity. And now I'm going to live in the wild.

Fanatical Zealot

Avgvsto
Suicidesoldier#1
Avgvsto
Suicidesoldier#1
Avgvsto
I'm always bored.


Exactly.

Got to keep yourself interested, and in the game!
Yeah I'm going to commit suicide today.


lol rofl

Well, suicide is never the answer; you should instead devote your life to something, since that's basically like suicide anyways, and BE A SUICIDE SOLDIER!
Since you've told me that I've donated all my money to charity. And now I'm going to live in the wild.


Yeah, you could end up being just like me! blaugh

*suicides self instantly*

Dapper Reveler

Suicidesoldier#1
rawr
btw, happy steak and BJ day. Unless you're still using pi instead of tau, in which case you're a ******** nerd.

Dapper Reveler

Suicidesoldier#1
Avgvsto
Suicidesoldier#1
Avgvsto
Suicidesoldier#1
Avgvsto
I'm always bored.


Exactly.

Got to keep yourself interested, and in the game!
Yeah I'm going to commit suicide today.


lol rofl

Well, suicide is never the answer; you should instead devote your life to something, since that's basically like suicide anyways, and BE A SUICIDE SOLDIER!
Since you've told me that I've donated all my money to charity. And now I'm going to live in the wild.


Yeah, you could end up being just like me! blaugh

*suicides self instantly*
that would suck

Quick Reply

Submit
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
Play with GCash
Play with Platinum