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I don't know a single person that treats it as a religious holiday
Xiam


I'm not saying we don't still have that - your question of whether being gay is rational is a perfect example. Of course it's not. Nothing to do with love is rational, it's all mild insanity. I'm in love with a girl who is with someone else, and is miles away, and I really probably have absolutely no shot with her, but you know what? I still think of her, a lot. It's unhealthy. It's not rational. But so help me, it still happens to me.

And yet I still put it out of my mind and try to greet the world with a rational mind. I don't let it color my feelings on subject matter that it shouldn't be involved with. Like... say...

"Oh no, there are boys who like boys and women who like women! That's immoral!"
"Oh no, there are people who don't want to bring another life into this already overpopulated world, where they won't be able to get the right care they need! That's immoral!"
"Oh no, there are people doing what I just said because it will [******** kill them! That's immoral!"
"Oh no, people think the earth revolves around the sun and not the other way around! They think our world is round! They think we evolved from apes! They think there wasn't a global flood that killed everything because there's 'no evidence' for it, and that there's no magical man living in the sky! THAT'S IMMORAL!"

Now, I don't mind religion. Hell, I don't even mind Christianity - in small doses. But that whole superstitious bullshit that can't accept what we've learned or changed in the intervening time since the Bible was actually written, and how there are honestly some Protestants out there who think Catholicism isn't even Christianity... that's all ******** insane.

You know what was "rational" in the 17th century? Slavery. Just good business, right? And it's in the Bible, after all!

Hell, I made this a religious thing, sorry. Just... holy ******** s**t, when I responded I thought you were actually joking about Satan.


Well I might love my best male friend but having sex with him is just obscure and obscene. Sure, one might find certain people of the same sex look good, but to think that morality a concept "made up" by mankind is terrifying. Based from what you said, we should adapt to what everyone has changed and follow the mainstream belief, morality is changeable. Even if the majority believes that the genocide of a minority would make the world a better place, we have to adapt to that belief, let along killing of children while they're still in their wombs due to their inability of objection, their size and place. Humanity will be doomed if that were to happen.

Also how can math mistakes be immoral? How can not knowing something be immoral even though it is not a straight up lie?

Would you consider a church that adopted Buddhist practices which contradicted with major believes of Christianity still a Christian church?

And slavery. What do you think when you see the term "slavery" today? The color of people's skin? Tell me, has the Biblical law ever, not include death penalty for "man-stealing," or forced slavery/kidnapping? Has the Bible ever, not teaching the masters to treat their slaves(bondservants) with respect and dignity?
The Herald of War's avatar

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It has no true meaning. Holidays have no 'true' meaning, they only have the meaning we give them.
The Herald of War's avatar

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Tacit Effigy
Xiam
Tacit Effigy
Riviera de la Mancha
For one Catholic to any Christian/Catholic/Protestant/etc.:

You are being a dummy to think Valentine's Day is religious or pagan anymore. Live in modernity, not in the 17th century for God's sake.


Beware, this is one of Satan's many cunning ways to fool the world.

What, to make us think we live in a modern, rational world, away from primitive 17th century superstitions? xp


I don't see how being gay is being rational...


It doesn't need to be. It isn't a matter of rationality anymore than being human is a matter of rationality. It isn't a choice.

Quote:

I don't see how sexing around is being rational...(primitive instincts, ok, but rational?)


You do not see why seeking pleasure is rational when there needn't be any serious consequences for it? You're the one being irrational. That is like saying that it is not rational to scratch an itch or to eat food that tastes good over food that is bland but nutritious. It is quite rational to seek pleasure when there are few ill effects.

Quote:

I don't see how TVs, games ect promoting violence, murder and rape is being rational.


They aren't.
Tacit Effigy
Riviera de la Mancha
For one Catholic to any Christian/Catholic/Protestant/etc.:

You are being a dummy to think Valentine's Day is religious or pagan anymore. Live in modernity, not in the 17th century for God's sake.


Beware, this is one of Satan's many cunning ways to fool the world..

But the real question hasn't been answered....

You didn't post a real question. You posted a troll thread.
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Tacit Effigy
Riviera de la Mancha
For one Catholic to any Christian/Catholic/Protestant/etc.:

You are being a dummy to think Valentine's Day is religious or pagan anymore. Live in modernity, not in the 17th century for God's sake.


Beware, this is one of Satan's many cunning ways to fool the world..

But the real question hasn't been answered....
When I read this post I can't help but think of a song-I hope you are just a troll otherwise I will just say something that might disturb you-Gaia is the name of a pagan goddess, so your being here makes it so you are allowing the influence of that deity. How far do you want to go with accommodating pagan ideas to fit your current life or are you willing to ignore them sometimes:
Suicidesoldier#1's avatar

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I believe it is customary to buy a dead plant.
Just another day.
Xiam's avatar

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Well I might love my best male friend but having sex with him is just obscure and obscene.

"Obscure"...?

Also, it sounds like someone's in denial about their sexuality.
Tacit Effigy
Sure, one might find certain people of the same sex look good, but to think that morality a concept "made up" by mankind is terrifying.

Why? I find the concept that morality is "made up" by a being more powerful than us who clearly has a temper and a childish attitude towards everything, and demands both blood sacrifice and swift, brutal judgment upon anyone who disobeys his petty laws, and rules like a king - nay, a tyrant - is far more terrifying than morality being a simple evolutionary development to keep humanity close to one another, to ensure the survival of the group.

What's more, I find the idea that without "God," humanity would collapse into utter chaos, to be an utter horrifying concept. Especially when atheists, and cultures who have never heard of Jesus, have shown themselves to be moral purely on their own judgment. The evidence is against this, here. Now, I'll grant you that they have their own religions, but many times morality has little to do with the requests from their divinities, and more to do with the simple fact that it's just not very efficient. The Golden Rule is not simply a Christian thing, it's a human thing. It's the value of empathy. The knowledge that if everybody's going around killing, stealing, and raping, eventually you'll end up the victim.

And that's why we don't do it. Because we're not ******** four-year-olds who need to be told what to do from a parental figure. Funny thing about humans - we're sometimes dumber than we think we are. But we're also sometimes smarter than we think we are.

Tacit Effigy
Based from what you said, we should adapt to what everyone has changed and follow the mainstream belief, morality is changeable.

Have you seen some of the s**t in the Bible? It totally ******** is. And this is for the better.

Tacit Effigy
Even if the majority believes that the genocide of a minority would make the world a better place, we have to adapt to that belief, let along killing of children while they're still in their wombs due to their inability of objection, their size and place. Humanity will be doomed if that were to happen.

Here's the thing about that - they wouldn't. What happened in the Holocaust was that the minority were making the decision, and the majority either didn't know about it (think of the whole rest of the world here) or so terrified they would be next (think the German people here) that they had to play along with it. This was a situation that had little to do with morality, and more to do with fear.

And I'm not one to go for Godwin's Law here, but... Christianity has also run on fear as the defining factor for their morality. The fear of Hell leads to being "good" people. But, like I said, for most normal humans, the fear of retaliation from others leads to morality among others.

Or, you know, human ******** decency.

Tacit Effigy
Also how can math mistakes be immoral? How can not knowing something be immoral even though it is not a straight up lie?

Wait, when did I say math could be immoral? (Although math can be irrational, hurr hurr.)

Tacit Effigy
Would you consider a church that adopted Buddhist practices which contradicted with major believes of Christianity still a Christian church?

Do they still believe Jesus is God? Because yes.

And believe it or not, a lot of Buddhist practices actually mesh well with Christianity. Seriously. What's more, the Theravada branch of Buddhism has nothing to do with the supernatural whatsoever, making it more like a philosophy. And the Mahayana school? That easily adapts to just about any local religion. It works really well for Christianity.

What's more, Christianity itself can adapt to local flavors. Jesus, for instance, changes his race depending on who's worshipping. The holidays are largely adapted from Pagan customs in parts of the world where Christians were trying to convert. Catholic saints worked really well in Latin America, as the saints basically replaced their old gods. There's even a "Santa Muerte." It's really quite beautiful.

Something else about humanity - we're really adaptable. And I'd like to think that if there's a God, so is He. Because it's really not just humans, a whole shitload of nature is adaptable, and works with what it's given. Some of the most inhospitable environments on the planet still have things living there. Volcanic vents under the sea, and hot springs? Life. Parched deserts? Life. Frickin Antarctica? Life. Australia? Life... but it'll probably kill you, hah.

Tacit Effigy
And slavery. What do you think when you see the term "slavery" today? The color of people's skin? Tell me, has the Biblical law ever, not include death penalty for "man-stealing," or forced slavery/kidnapping? Has the Bible ever, not teaching the masters to treat their slaves(bondservants) with respect and dignity?

I really wish there was a patronizing chin-on-hand emoticon I could use for times like this.

The fact still remains that the Bible teaches that one person can be the property of another. It's not about treatment, even in America there were slave owners who treated their slaves with respect and dignity, considering them part of the family. But the concept of ownership of another human being? That is immoral.

Suicidesoldier#1
I believe it is customary to buy a dead plant.

Hey now, let's not get morbid.

You buy a dying plant.
The Herald of War
It has no true meaning. Holidays have no 'true' meaning, they only have the meaning we give them.


Verily.
Xiam

"Obscure"...?

Also, it sounds like someone's in denial about their sexuality.

Why? I find the concept that morality is "made up" by a being more powerful than us who clearly has a temper and a childish attitude towards everything, and demands both blood sacrifice and swift, brutal judgment upon anyone who disobeys his petty laws, and rules like a king - nay, a tyrant - is far more terrifying than morality being a simple evolutionary development to keep humanity close to one another, to ensure the survival of the group.

What's more, I find the idea that without "God," humanity would collapse into utter chaos, to be an utter horrifying concept. Especially when atheists, and cultures who have never heard of Jesus, have shown themselves to be moral purely on their own judgment. The evidence is against this, here. Now, I'll grant you that they have their own religions, but many times morality has little to do with the requests from their divinities, and more to do with the simple fact that it's just not very efficient. The Golden Rule is not simply a Christian thing, it's a human thing. It's the value of empathy. The knowledge that if everybody's going around killing, stealing, and raping, eventually you'll end up the victim.

And that's why we don't do it. Because we're not ******** four-year-olds who need to be told what to do from a parental figure. Funny thing about humans - we're sometimes dumber than we think we are. But we're also sometimes smarter than we think we are.


Have you seen some of the s**t in the Bible? It totally ******** is. And this is for the better.

Here's the thing about that - they wouldn't. What happened in the Holocaust was that the minority were making the decision, and the majority either didn't know about it (think of the whole rest of the world here) or so terrified they would be next (think the German people here) that they had to play along with it. This was a situation that had little to do with morality, and more to do with fear.

And I'm not one to go for Godwin's Law here, but... Christianity has also run on fear as the defining factor for their morality. The fear of Hell leads to being "good" people. But, like I said, for most normal humans, the fear of retaliation from others leads to morality among others.

Or, you know, human ******** decency.


Do they still believe Jesus is God? Because yes.

And believe it or not, a lot of Buddhist practices actually mesh well with Christianity. Seriously. What's more, the Theravada branch of Buddhism has nothing to do with the supernatural whatsoever, making it more like a philosophy. And the Mahayana school? That easily adapts to just about any local religion. It works really well for Christianity.

What's more, Christianity itself can adapt to local flavors. Jesus, for instance, changes his race depending on who's worshipping. The holidays are largely adapted from Pagan customs in parts of the world where Christians were trying to convert. Catholic saints worked really well in Latin America, as the saints basically replaced their old gods. There's even a "Santa Muerte." It's really quite beautiful.

Something else about humanity - we're really adaptable. And I'd like to think that if there's a God, so is He. Because it's really not just humans, a whole shitload of nature is adaptable, and works with what it's given. Some of the most inhospitable environments on the planet still have things living there. Volcanic vents under the sea, and hot springs? Life. Parched deserts? Life. Frickin Antarctica? Life. Australia? Life... but it'll probably kill you, hah.


I really wish there was a patronizing chin-on-hand emoticon I could use for times like this.

The fact still remains that the Bible teaches that one person can be the property of another. It's not about treatment, even in America there were slave owners who treated their slaves with respect and dignity, considering them part of the family. But the concept of ownership of another human being? That is immoral.


One can't stop but worrying about humanity when the world starts to depict love as sex.
--------------------------
The blood sacrifice was God himself. Tyrants wouldn't do that, would they?
--------------------------
Well, even with God, the world can be utter chaos. Humans aren't robots who are programmed to be capable of only good deeds. After all they have their "conscience(if that belief even applies to people who believe morality is adaptable)" And "conscience" is why they have shown themselves to be moral purely on their own judgment. Hence the "Golden Rule" isn't only a Christian thing. I find the idea of not doing evil deeds solely because of fearing those same deeds might befall you to be contradictory to the value of empathy. Even four-year-olds have the concept of morality.
--------------------------
Have you?
--------------------------
I wasn't talking about what happened, I was talking about what might happen. You don't know what the defining factor for morality of a Christian is until you become one.

Jesus' race doesn't change, no matter how people try to. I agree with you on the human's adaptability part, one takes on the color of one's company.
Lives are everywhere. It just shows the coincidental aspect of lives' complexity in nature right? Take lives from an "inhospitable" environment and bring them to "hospitable" environments and see how they adapt.
--------------------------
No, the Bible doesn't "teach" people to become other people's properties. It teaches people to treat others justly.
And no, if they actually did treat them with respect and dignity, they would've set those kidnapped slaves free and sent them to their homes instead of kept forcing them to remain their property. You think that the concept of employment, serving a master/king is immoral, as contradictory as you sound, millennia ago people didn't have wellfare as we do today, people didn't have political asylum as we do today, people didn't have healthcare as we do today, people didn't have social programs as we do today. Would anyone with a "conscience"(excuse me if this term offended some people) refuse the offer of someone who was otherwise gonna be starved, sentenced, plagued to death to be sheltered and given needs and in return work for the master?
The Herald of War
Tacit Effigy


I don't see how being gay is being rational...


It doesn't need to be. It isn't a matter of rationality anymore than being human is a matter of rationality. It isn't a choice.


Another excuse for being homosexual.


The Herald of War

You do not see why seeking pleasure is rational when there needn't be any serious consequences for it? You're the one being irrational. That is like saying that it is not rational to scratch an itch or to eat food that tastes good over food that is bland but nutritious. It is quite rational to seek pleasure when there are few ill effects.


I guess for you it is ok for your parents or bf/gf to have sex with other people since there are few ill effects right?
Xiam's avatar

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Tacit Effigy
One can't stop but worrying about humanity when the world starts to depict love as sex.

Depends on what kind of "love." See, English is a funny language. We use "love" to refer to romantic love, platonic love, and familial love. Many languages have different terms for affection for different individuals, but we all lump it together and wonder why people get confused.

It's because romantic love is about sex. It's Eros. The whole point of "falling in love" is to make lots of babies. Look back at where we came from. You think animals think about whether it's love or lust? No. They just do whatever they do for mating rites and go ahead with the ********.

Tacit Effigy
The blood sacrifice was God himself. Tyrants wouldn't do that, would they?

Uhhh... you're aware that there was a time before Christianity, right? When God actually demanded sacrifices of animals, plants, whathaveyou. That's what the whole Cain and Abel thing was on about.

Please note that the one God favored was Abel. Who gave him sacrifices of animals. Blood sacrifice. It's a god that demands blood.

And funny thing about sacrificing to himself to save everyone. Why not just outright forgive us for whatever perceived misdeeds, instead of being born as a man, then dying through some contrived methods?

Tacit Effigy
Well, even with God, the world can be utter chaos. Humans aren't robots who are programmed to be capable of only good deeds. After all they have their "conscience(if that belief even applies to people who believe morality is adaptable)" And "conscience" is why they have shown themselves to be moral purely on their own judgment. Hence the "Golden Rule" isn't only a Christian thing. I find the idea of not doing evil deeds solely because of fearing those same deeds might befall you to be contradictory to the value of empathy. Even four-year-olds have the concept of morality.

Funny how that works out like that.

Tacit Effigy
Have you?

Have I what? Seen some of the s**t in the Bible? Yes, or I wouldn't have said it.

Tacit Effigy
I wasn't talking about what happened, I was talking about what might happen. You don't know what the defining factor for morality of a Christian is until you become one.

Well, that's bullshit. I can ask any number of them and find that out. That's the thing about talking to people, you get to learn about them.

Tacit Effigy
Jesus' race doesn't change, no matter how people try to. I agree with you on the human's adaptability part, one takes on the color of one's company.
Lives are everywhere. It just shows the coincidental aspect of lives' complexity in nature right? Take lives from an inhospitable environment and bring them to where we live and see how they adapt.

His actual historical race wouldn't change, no. If he actually existed, he was Jewish. We all ******** know it. But to specific races, he is depicted in certain ways. He's seen as Black, Asian, ********... Nordic... we've got ********' 28 flavors of Christ here.

And what coincidental aspect? It's not coincidence. Life is a part of nature, nature is a part of the world. Ergo, life is a part of the world. Hell, I'd even say part of the universe.

Check this out. Of the top ten most abundant elements, almost all of them are essential to our bodies. The others (Helium, Neon) aren't, but aren't really dangerous beyond the fact that we can't really use it, so the pure gas will just lead us to suffocate due to lack of oxygen more than any sort of toxicity. Crazy, right?

It's like we're extensions of the universe. It's not coincidence. We didn't just drop out of some other dimension and struggle for survival. We weren't molded out of the dirt, we grew from it. Or... well... the water. Hell, we're still about 70% water.

Sorry, I'm ranting and we're not even done yet. End of science lesson.

Tacit Effigy
No, the Bible doesn't "teach" people to become other people's properties. It teaches people to treat others justly.

Funny how God Almighty just sort of lets it go, though, and doesn't say "Hey. That's bad, you guys." No, it just says "Hey, so uh... this thing you're doing. At least play nice with it, okay?"

Tacit Effigy
And no, if they actually did treat them with respect and dignity, they would've set those kidnapped slaves free and sent them to their homes instead of kept forcing them to remain their property.

Well, now you're getting it.

Tacit Effigy
You think that the concept of employment, serving a master/king is immoral, as contradictory as you sound, millennia ago people didn't have wellfare as we do today, people didn't have political asylum as we do today, people didn't have healthcare as we do today, people didn't have social programs as we do today. Would anyone with a conscience refuse the offer of someone who was gonna be starved, sentenced to, plagued to death to be sheltered and given needs and in return work for the master?

Wait... what?

You can't just use "It's the times they were living in!" as an excuse here. This is written in the ******** Bible. Don't Christians consider that the literal Word of God? You basically have God Himself advocating slavery, and just being okay with it. And believe me, there is a sheer ******** difference between employment and slavery.
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Tacit Effigy
The Herald of War
Tacit Effigy


I don't see how being gay is being rational...


It doesn't need to be. It isn't a matter of rationality anymore than being human is a matter of rationality. It isn't a choice.


Another excuse for being homosexual.


The Herald of War

You do not see why seeking pleasure is rational when there needn't be any serious consequences for it? You're the one being irrational. That is like saying that it is not rational to scratch an itch or to eat food that tastes good over food that is bland but nutritious. It is quite rational to seek pleasure when there are few ill effects.


I guess for you it is ok for your parents or bf/gf to have sex with other people since there are few ill effects right?


Oh I see, God touched you as a child, okay.

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