The Real Tragedy of Eric Garner (Not About Race)

[Prince of Nobody]

We've all seen the disturbing video of Eric Garner being choked by a police officer in the news, and this event has sparked outrage across the nation. In this incident was an element that has become depressingly familiar to many, a white cop killing a black man, and receiving no punishment from the law. However, we can't talk about that, because it is clear that Americans are too afraid to have an open discussion about race. Once the word racism is spoken, any argument made after that is ignored, and inevitably falls apart.

So, putting the issue of race aside... this isn't about one black man getting killed by one white police officer. It is about a growing distrust between the police force, and the people that they supposedly protect and serve. What we saw in the Eric Garner case, and many others like it, was a police officer using lethal force against an unarmed man who did not display clear violent aggression against the police that would warrant such force. Eric Garner later died as a direct result of that police officer's actions.
We, as a society, cannot tolerate this. Regardless of what crime he committed before the incident, an officer of the law does not and should not have the authority to take the life of a person without due process of the law unless met with clear lethal aggression from that person. Such actions tarnish the reputation of the police force as a whole, and create animosity and distrust between them and the people. This is especially true in impoverished communities. That is the true outrage.

So go ahead and say that racism is a lie made up by the villainous liberals and Big Brother Obama.
But don't you dare try to tell me that this act is in any way excusable because of that, because the problem is real whether you want to look at it or not.

[Suicidesoldier#1]

As sad as it is, the guy died of heart failure. The action ordinarily would not result in someone dying, so using a grappling maneuver as he did to arrest a man in as peaceful a manner possible more or less followed protocol.

The sad reality is, even protocol is not perfect. Occasionally, people will die even when you do everything perfect, or by the book. You do the best you can in the situation you're given, and that's all you can do.

[Prince of Nobody]

Suicidesoldier#1

As sad as it is, the guy died of heart failure. The action ordinarily would not result in someone dying, so using a grappling maneuver as he did to arrest a man in as peaceful a manner possible more or less followed protocol.

The sad reality is, even protocol is not perfect. Occasionally, people will die even when you do everything perfect, or by the book. You do the best you can in the situation you're given, and that's all you can do.

Whether or not the chokehold that the officer used was protocol is debatable, and that is a valid point. The question of the chokehold's justification or the specific hold used should be part of the discussion.
However, that still leaves the question of whether or not he should have continued the hold while Eric Garner was on the ground saying "I can't breathe", while four other cops jumped into the struggle.
Still, if the hold used was, in fact, protocol, then perhaps we, as a society, should have a larger discussion on what the protocol should be, or if it should be changed.
To be clear... I'm not refuting your argument, merely offering my perspective on it.

[Prince of Nobody]

It should be noted though, that the autopsy did conclude that Eric Garner's death was a direct result of the chokehold that he received from that police officer.

[Project 429]

Prince of Nobody

Still, if the hold used was, in fact, protocol, then perhaps we, as a society, should have a larger discussion on what the protocol should be, or if it should be changed.

What does this even mean?

[GSK Lives]

We don't say "choke" anymore. We say "neck hold". Just like grenades are "rapidly expanding gases" and "The Boston Neck-Holder"

In fact, I'm going to petition for DeSalvo to get a poshumous retrial to prove those women died from him just using a grappling maneuver on them instead of being "strangled" like the state said he did.

[Henrika]

Prince of Nobody

It should be noted though, that the autopsy did conclude that Eric Garner's death was a direct result of the chokehold that he received from that police officer.

Except is should be noted that no chokehold was actually used during the arrest of Eric Garner, and the headlock that WAS used did not in fact kill him. His autopsy results confirm this. Absolutely you can say that the combination of various factors during the arrest (such as having someone with sleep apnea who was passing out because of the neck hold lay down, rather than have him sit up) triggered Garner's heart attack, but to determine that brutality was used would mean the officers knew of Garner's multiple pre-existing health conditions.

[halfbloodtimelord]

Brutality was used. The chokehold has been banned for years for a reason. The man can be heard saying that he can not breathe, did the officer loosen his grip? No. If someone who was not protected for being a cop, put someone in a chokehold, said person in chokehold said that they couldn't breathe, and then died because they were still in the chokehold, that person would be put to trial and sentenced for homicide or accidental manslaughter, even if the autopsy were to show it wasn't what caused the death. It's sad because yes this can be a race issue but it's sadder that it happens and even if it wasn't made out to be a rave issue it's still the fact that it's someone with authority being let off the hook again.

[Yoshpet]

Henrika

Prince of Nobody

It should be noted though, that the autopsy did conclude that Eric Garner's death was a direct result of the chokehold that he received from that police officer.

Except is should be noted that no chokehold was actually used during the arrest of Eric Garner, and the headlock that WAS used did not in fact kill him. His autopsy results confirm this. Absolutely you can say that the combination of various factors during the arrest (such as having someone with sleep apnea who was passing out because of the neck hold lay down, rather than have him sit up) triggered Garner's heart attack, but to determine that brutality was used would mean the officers knew of Garner's multiple pre-existing health conditions.

You should probably avoid referencing autopsy results that contradict your sentiments, because they do. Brutality is not defined by foreknowledge of your victim's physical ailments, but excessive force to the point of death definitely qualifies.

You're just determined to destroy all of your credibility over this one dead man, aren't you?

[Valiant Corvus]

Henrika

Except is should be noted that no chokehold was actually used during the arrest of Eric Garner, and the headlock that WAS used did not in fact kill him.

So you're saying it was inevitable for him to spontaneously break out into a heart attack even if the officers did not put him in a "neckhold" (Neck/Chest Compressions -> Asthma -> Heart attack.)? Lack of foreknowledge is irrelevant.

Police put him into "Headlock" ( rolleyes ) > Compressions on the neck constrict his airflow > Placed on ground and piled upon to further restrict airflow > Heart attack > Garner dies.

But let's make this simpler, kay?

Police put him into "Headlock" > Compressions on the neck constrict his airflow > Placed on ground and piled upon to further restrict airflow > Heart attack > Garner dies.

Police put him into "Headlock" > Garner dies.

The more you talk the more ridiculous you sound.

[Divine_Malevolence]

Prince of Nobody

What we saw in the Eric Garner case, and many others like it, was a police officer using lethal force

Nope.
What we saw in the Eric Garner case was a police officer using a proper amount of non-lethal force, whereafter the man's obesity killed him.
The real tragedy is obesity.

Valiant Corvus

Police put him into "Headlock" ( rolleyes ) > Compressions on the neck constrict his airflow >

No such thing happened.
Compressions on the neck constricted his bloodflow, not his airflow, and the fact that the man was extremely unhealthy killed him.


Seriously people, stop calling it a chokehold. It wasn't, and the cause of death was not choking.

[Prince of Nobody]

Henrika

Prince of Nobody

It should be noted though, that the autopsy did conclude that Eric Garner's death was a direct result of the chokehold that he received from that police officer.

Except is should be noted that no chokehold was actually used during the arrest of Eric Garner, and the headlock that WAS used did not in fact kill him. His autopsy results confirm this. Absolutely you can say that the combination of various factors during the arrest (such as having someone with sleep apnea who was passing out because of the neck hold lay down, rather than have him sit up) triggered Garner's heart attack, but to determine that brutality was used would mean the officers knew of Garner's multiple pre-existing health conditions.

If that was the case, and I say "if", then the officer should have at least been charged with manslaughter. But he wasn't even indicted. The chokehold used was also against regulation for a police officer to use. Regardless of the intent of the officer, when Eric Garner was on the ground saying "I can't breathe", the officer should have determined that the threat was no longer present, let go of the man, and proceeded to arrest him without further force.

[Avgvsto]

Prince of Nobody

However, we can't talk about that, because it is clear that Americans are too afraid to have an open discussion about race.

What are you even doing then?

[GSK Lives]

Divine_Malevolence

What we saw in the Eric Garner case was a police officer using a proper amount of non-lethal force, whereafter the man's obesity killed him.

Then you agree that Albert DeSalvo's case needs to be retried? It needs to be concluded that Ida Irga, Mary Brown, and Helen Blake's deaths were caused by health problems (they were pretty old). unrelated to DeSalvo putting them in a neck hold. The tragedy there was old age, not DeSalvo.

[Divine_Malevolence]

GSK Lives

Then you agree that Albert DeSalvo's case needs to be retried? It needs to be concluded that Ida Irga, Mary Brown, and Helen Blake's deaths were caused by health problems (they were pretty old). unrelated to DeSalvo putting them in a neck hold. The tragedy there was old age, not DeSalvo.

Don't let sourness ruin what little sanity ya got.
You know what you're trying to pull is bullshit, and I'm decently sure you understand what actually happened.