Welcome to Gaia! :: The Miracles of Creationism | Forum

Register FaceBook Login Login

 

Welcome to Gaia's forums, where millions discuss thousands of topics a day.

Lurking is creepy. Quit skulking in the shadows and join the conversation!

Advertisement

The Miracles of Creationism 

Tags: miracles  creationism 
Share:
forum:26, topic:42049207
1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Many people are familiar with Occam’s razor. In short, it states that if there are two possible solutions to a problem, the one that is the simplest (see also: parsimonious) is the favored one.

Applying this principle to the possible solutions of evolution and Creationism, evolution instantly wins because it invokes fewer unseen agents. However, there is an even more subtle and important point I’d like to make in this thread about why the test of Occam’s razor declares evolution the true solution before even getting to that point.

What goes unstated with this is the assumption that both possible solutions explain all of the same evidence. That means, that to even consider something as a possible alternative to evolution, Creationism must first also explain all of the same evidence.

In this thread, I will attempt to convince you that Creationism fails to even make it this far (Note: to see how I’m defining Creationism, please refer to this thread).

What I’m saying is that evolution and the rest of accepted science is able to neatly explain several observations while Creationism offers no explanation without inventing contrived answers that don’t really explain anything or untestable. In short, I will highlight several observations that Creationism fails to explain and leaves as “miracles”.

Plate Tectonics

For Young-Earth Creationists (who believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old), the movement of plates poses a serious problem. We know that continents used to be connected because fossils of various fauna and animals found on the coast of one are found on the coast of the one it split off from. This is most apparent in eastern South America, which has the same fossils as western Africa.

If the Earth is really only 6,000 years old, then the plates would not have had time to separate to their current distances and we should not expect to see these similar fossils. The observation that these separate continents have these fossils is left as a miracle.

Some attempts have been made to solve this by saying that Noah’s flood was triggered by the releasing of reservoirs of water from under the crust. As the water welled up from the deep, it broke apart the continents and pushed them apart at a much more rapid rate in the past. However, this still leaves no reason for why they slowed down to the exact rate we would expect for the chronologically accepted age of the Earth of 4.3 billion years. This too is left as a miracle.

Geological Strata

With geology, it is accepted that the stratification in rocks is due to sediment and minerals being deposited repeatedly over millions of years. The Creationist response to this is that these features too were created in Noah's flood in which different compositions of sediment settled out at different times.

However, this leaves two unanswered questions

The first is how they settled out so quickly, especially with the water rushing around as much as it must have been (and even moreso if the continental plates were zipping around).

The second is why there is no order to the densities and you get lower and lower. When settling occurs, the heavier (denser) material falls to the bottom. Thus, we should always expect sedimentary materials (especially in the ocean) to get less dense as you approach the surface. This is not the case.

Both of these observations are not explained by Creationism and are left as miracles.

Marine Fossils on Mountains

Many marine fossils are found at the tops of mountains. Through plate tectonics, there is a simple explanation of this: The uplift created by two plates colliding lifted the fossils as it formed the mountain.

Of course, Creationists have an explanation for this. Take a guess....

"The flood did it!"

Sounds good. If it were underwater, then why shouldn't there be fossils?

Three reasons:

1) Observations of floods have shown that quite often, plants stay still. They wouldn't be lifted and redeposited at the tops of mountains. Why they moved at all is a miracle.

2) Even if the flood did manage to move the plants and animals that far, then why wouldn't they settle out like everything else and sink to the bottom and into the valleys between mountains. If the flood happened, then we should expect to find all sorts of fossils in low areas and almost none at the tops of mountains. Why we don't see this and see what we do is a miracle.

3) Other evidence, such as fossilized tracks and burrows of marine organisms, show that the region was once under the sea. Seashells are not found in sediments that were not formerly covered by sea.

(thanks to Westenblum and talk origins for this one).

Chromosome #2

All great apes besides humans have 48 chromosomes. Humans only have 46. Since the loss of two whole chromosomes would have absolutely been fatal, this would imply that one set of our chromosomes came from a merger from the common ancestor. We can look for this by looking for the “stop” instructions in the DNA, known as telomeres.

It turns out that in the middle of chromosome #2, there is a deactivated telomere, which is the result of a gene fusion. If this were not observed, common descent from the great ape family would be falsified. No telomere; No common ancestor and a major component of evolutionary theory is falsified.

Creationism can offer no explanation for why we should have a chromosome with deactivated telomeres in the middle of a chromosome that, when separated, exactly matches that which evolution says should be our common ancestor. This is yet another miracle.

The recurrent laryngeal nerve
The recurrent laryngeal nerve is a branch of the nerve that supplies motor function and sensation to the larynx (voice box). In humans, it makes a big detour around the aorta before attaching to the larynx. This can be easily explained by evolution by stating that the nerve and artery used to line up, but the artery evolved backwards, constraining the nerve to move with it. For creationism, there is no explanation for why this should be the case. It is a miracle.

Deactivated Genes
Most species carry leftover information from their evolutionary process. For example, although humans no longer have tails, our DNA still carries the full set of instructions to produce one, its just deactivated. We know that they're still there though, because every so often, the gene that turns it off is lost or mutated such that the tail develops.

Similarly, birds still carry the genes from their dinosaur heritage. There has been a good amount of research in which scientists have reactivated old genes in order to try to develop more dinosaur like characteristics such as scales or primitive feathers.

Through evolution, there is a clear reason for this: The features were deactivated, but have not yet gotten lost due to cumulative mutation in the instructions, through natural selection. Creationism's best attempt to explain this is to say, "Maybe God put it there to be useful later". Of course, the fact that these features correspond so well with the species from which evolutionary scientists claim they evolved is left, by Creationists, as a miracle.



More coming as they come to mind. Feel free to add more.
 
     
 
[Space reserved]
     
[Two opposite things in conflict.]
A reserved post in an ED thread?

.-.
[Two inseparable things in harmony.]
 
     
 
[Duality]
[Two opposite things in conflict.]
A reserved post in an ED thread?

.-.
[Two inseparable things in harmony.]


Yeah, and? It happens, especially with topics that take numerous paragraphs to fully describe.
     
Oh, it's my favorite EDer. I love all of your threads, Voija. heart

Such specifications (like deactivated telomeres) seem to be of little importance to the monotheistic faiths, seemingly only because they neither have the ability, nor the desire to delve into such things as proven theory and scientific honesty. This, of course, only extends the distance between them and the realm of logical thought.
 
     
 
Duality
A reserved post in an ED thread?
Yep. If you look at my other threads (linked in my profile) you'll see that I often use them for FAQs about topics, further elaboration on certain points that are inherently linked to the main topic but don't quite fit in, and things like that.

I don't know what I'd use this one for, but I always like to keep one or two just incase since my threads tend to get more technical and source heavy than the average ED threads.
     
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
~Terry Pratchett

~ED's Resident Expert on Creationism~

I'll be nicer when you be smarter.
[Two opposite things in conflict.]
Well that's clever.

Anyhow I agree with your post, specifically with the notion that Occam's Razor destroys creationism and that anyone who tries to claim the opposite is being just a wee bit dogmatic about the whole thing.
[Two inseparable things in harmony.]
 
     
http://tinyurl.com/5ejnl6
Join Dead Frontier, a free zombie MMO game
 
Now that's an impressive first post. Applause.

And thanks for including the information about chromosome #2. It's really intriguing (not to mention extremely good evidence!) and I hadn't heard that before. Quite looking forward to seeing how the creationists attempt to rationalise that one...
     
cyropi
Now that's an impressive first post. Applause.

And thanks for including the information about chromosome #2. It's really intriguing (not to mention extremely good evidence!) and I hadn't heard that before. Quite looking forward to seeing how the creationists attempt to rationalise that one...


They'll probably half-a** it with some inane "substantation" that nowhere near accounts for the deactivated telomere. xd Creationists have a nasty tendency to think they're entitled to their own facts.
 
     
 
Don't forget intrusions in geological strata. How did those get there, and if young-earth creationism is correct, why don't they all reach the uppermost layers?
     
I really like the quantity and variety of information posted on these few informative threads...

But, do you really think there are many creationists around here, or just trying to create awareness of the arguments given?
 
     
Books do not create nor destroy you, they only transform you.

Questing:
Lunar Scythe 7000/35,000
Summoning Tome
Raptor Fire Horns
Vampire Hunter Hat
Death Whisper
 
Westenblum
cyropi
Now that's an impressive first post. Applause.

And thanks for including the information about chromosome #2. It's really intriguing (not to mention extremely good evidence!) and I hadn't heard that before. Quite looking forward to seeing how the creationists attempt to rationalise that one...


They'll probably half-a** it with some inane "substantation" that nowhere near accounts for the deactivated telomere. xd Creationists have a nasty tendency to think they're entitled to their own facts.


I have no doubt they will biggrin It just seems like an even more undeniable piece of evidence than most, which will require even more "substantiation" than usual. Which promises to be entertaining.

I had a quick google and I found a good explanation complete with pretty picture of the chromosome and the corresponding chromosomes in chimpanzees.
     
Lord Setar
Don't forget intrusions in geological strata. How did those get there, and if young-earth creationism is correct, why don't they all reach the uppermost layers?


Obviously because the Flood pushed them down.
 
     
 
Maniacal Kaiju
Lord Setar
Don't forget intrusions in geological strata. How did those get there, and if young-earth creationism is correct, why don't they all reach the uppermost layers?


Obviously because the Flood pushed them down.




Do you even know what an intrusion is?

Hint: It usually starts as magma. Magma is hot. Magma causes water to turn to steam. Magma is liquid form of what?
     
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/9302/rocknolegal.jpg
I don't believe in miracles. Team Canada GOLD MEDAL 2010 =DDDDDDD
Maniacal Kaiju
Lord Setar
Don't forget intrusions in geological strata. How did those get there, and if young-earth creationism is correct, why don't they all reach the uppermost layers?


Obviously because the Flood pushed them down.


Are you kidding here?
 
     
http://www.animeph.com/screen coyote ragtime show.JPG
1 2 3 4 5 6 >

Quick Reply

Enter both words below, separated by a space:

Can't read the text? Click here

Submit