The growing popularity of Wiccanism/What is Wicca, really

[Esselean]

Couldn't be stuffed correcting all the misinformed people around so.......*points to the link error-dot-tar posted on the first page and 'Morgandria's Info-Dump' that xLady Tsukiyox posted on the third page*

[summer1412]

Sometimes I just like to read these things to see how stupid some people are. But as amusing as it is...also, it is very depressing. Because it shows me how stupid some people are.

[Sexual Chocolat]

People trying to be cool. Like kids becoming atheist or Buddhist because they think oh Johnny it's so cool and awesome I wanna be spiritual but not like thise icky Christians eww!!
Makes me ******** sick.

[Pwn3r_F0x]

Ok you will get almost no one to agree on this because of the dramatically changing views of Wicca. Just Wiki it and you will get a better overview that you will on ED.

[Esselean]

Alternatively you can ask someone who is actual initiate *points once again to Morgandria's Info-Dump*

[Osamas Informer]

Raptor Mechanic

Cheshire6

error-dot-tar

Mandatory link dump:

http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/morality-and-religion/wiccan-faq-profit/t.22819829/

Wicca is an initiatory orthopraxic fertility witch cult. In order to be Wiccan, you must be initiated into a verifiable lineaged coven, one who can trace their cross-sex initiations back to Gardner himself. You must be at least 18 for this, though in some covens the base requirement is older. This is due to the explicit sexual nature of the practice, as it does include sex rites.

translation: It's how nerds finally get laid.

There's an actual orgy?

i thought it was just goths trying too piss of there christian parrents, but this sounds like my kinda thing too belief in lol
i just discoverd religion

[Rayne Nightrose]

Pwn3r_F0x

Ok you will get almost no one to agree on this because of the dramatically changing views of Wicca. Just Wiki it and you will get a better overview that you will on ED.

Better yet, just look it up on the Religious Tolerance website. I wouldn't trust wiki for anything.

[Mobilize For War]

Buncha witches goin at it all night long.

[summer1412]

Sanguinus Angelus

If you girls like wicca because of the sex, you should come over to Asatru. See what sex with real men is like. wink

REAL men don't base their prowess off of a religious belief. *big grin*

[spidren alexis]

These days any wiccans you meet are just hippies calling themselves a legitimate religion. Real wicca are hard to find and quite a few really hate the religion thieves.

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Rayne Nightrose

Pwn3r_F0x

Ok you will get almost no one to agree on this because of the dramatically changing views of Wicca. Just Wiki it and you will get a better overview that you will on ED.

Better yet, just look it up on the Religious Tolerance website. I wouldn't trust wiki for anything.

While the Religious tolerance website as a whole is well-meaning and not too bad, the Wicca section is really abysmal.

[wolfdragon08]

error-dot-tar

Mandatory link dump:

http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/morality-and-religion/wiccan-faq-profit/t.22819829/

Wicca is an initiatory orthopraxic fertility witch cult. In order to be Wiccan, you must be initiated into a verifiable lineaged coven, one who can trace their cross-sex initiations back to Gardner himself. You must be at least 18 for this, though in some covens the base requirement is older. This is due to the explicit sexual nature of the practice, as it does include sex rites.

*Sigh* One of the reasons why I hate discussing Wicca on Gaia (and yes, I am an initiated Wiccan; while I honestly do not care if someone is initiated or not, I feel that my entire post will be ignored by the "more-ignorant" masses if I do not point this out stressed ). Okay people, let me try to clear up some things for you (I am quite tired of this):

1. Identifying Wicca as an "orthopraxic" religion causes some serious misunderstandings, mostly because NO (and I mean NO) religion is entirely orthodoxic or orthopraxic; to call Wicca either one of these is rather narrow-minded (and shows that your knowledge of Wicca does not extend beyond the confines of the Internet).

Orthopraxy is important to Wicca, yes. Our values and virtues are universal to every tradition. HOWEVER, an orthodoxic belief in the balances of nature (namely fertility) and the importance of ritual are also important. BOTH of these things are needed for the religion. Just having the orthopraxy just means that you are just going through the motions, doing the rituals for no real reason (Belief IS important; why do you think we are doing the rituals? For fun?) and just having the orthodoxy means that you have empty faith, that you are not willing to show any appreciation for it ("You believe in the Goddess and the God; what you do to show that you do?" ).

Note: Orthopraxy means "correct action/practice" meaning how one behaves and acts, namely virtues, passing on traditions, values of family, etc. It DOES NOT mean the "correct practice of ritual", as that falls into the category of orthodoxy.

2. There are only a handful of current American Gardnerian covens who can truly trace their linage ALL THE WAY to Gardner, due in part to the fact only so many British Gardnerians came to the US and started covens (British Gardnerian Wiccas can, obviously, do this much better). Raymond Buckland started the trend and even some covens himself, however, he was not initiated by Gardner himself (though Gardner was present), so even those covens can't trace their linage all the way to Gardner. The closest would be Alexanderian Wiccans (albeit only few), as they are able to trace their line to Alex Sanders to Patricia Crowther to Gardner.

Because of this, it is rather ludicrous to continue saying that covens (or a single Wiccan) need to have linage to Gardner. Unless they are British, there is a big chance they are not fully able to do so.

3. Speaking of covens and initiations, the reason why one must be 18 to join a coven really has nothing to do with the "explicit sexual nature" of the initiation. The real reason is that those who are underage need the permission of their parents to join, not because of the sex, but because it is illegal to interfere with the religious choice of the parents for their children. For example, if a parent wants to raise their child with Christian values and not Wiccan ones, that is a decision we have to respect so long as the child is underage, no matter what the wishes of the child are. If we try to initiate someone who is underage without the permission of their parents, we could be potentially breaking the law. Rather than go through the trouble of contacting parents and asking for/confirming their permission (since kids can obviously lie) and risk potentially breaking the law, its easier to just wait until they are 18 when it doesn't matter what the parent says.

We also wait until a person is 18 because when they are interested as younger teens, they might want to join for all the wrong reasons. Waiting a couple of years gives them a chance to learn more about the religion before making the commitment.

4. And speaking of sex, there are barely any normal Wiccan rituals that (physically) involve sex or even mention it. While Wicca is a fertility religion, all that really means that we show reverence for the fertility in nature (ie the cycles); it does not mean that we have sexually explicit rituals (we would have a lot more members if this was true). This, of course, means that we do make references to sex (especially during Beltane), but they are certainly not of a "explicit sexual nature".

The closest would be the physical performing of the Great Rite. However, IF the Great Rite is physically performed (not every coven or tradition does this), then it is usually done in private (it can be performed in front of others, but again, that is not as common as people think).

To be honest, I find it laughable how non-Wiccans will tell other people that they are "fluffy-bunnies", that they don't know what they are talking about or how to "correctly" participate in a religion that they are not a part of. How do you know what happens during a ritual? How do you know what the religion is about? How do you know what is correct and what is not when even you yourself are not an initiated Wiccan (I am directing this at pretty much everybody)? In fact, what makes you think that you can tell others that they need to be an initiated Wiccan when you are not one? How much of this religion can you POSSIBLY know? Where did you get the info from? From a random person on a random thread on Gaia Online (by the way, please point where the author of "Wicca FAQs" said that she was a Wiccan; I have not seen anything on that page to tell me that)? From some random website? But I guess a thread and a website give you ALL the info that you need on this religion (since some of you are quick to denounce books on Wicca, books that you most likely have never read and if you did, you wouldn't have the balls to tell someone that they are not part of a religion that you were not a part of), so much so that you don't even need to belong to it in order to tell people if they are actually a member.

[ShojoHana]

Wicca is a nature based religion (psuedo?), in which rituals, seals, chants, and prayers are used to invoke a spirit, message, or sign of some sort.

[BTW Seeket]

wolfdragon08

error-dot-tar

Mandatory link dump:

http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/morality-and-religion/wiccan-faq-profit/t.22819829/

Wicca is an initiatory orthopraxic fertility witch cult. In order to be Wiccan, you must be initiated into a verifiable lineaged coven, one who can trace their cross-sex initiations back to Gardner himself. You must be at least 18 for this, though in some covens the base requirement is older. This is due to the explicit sexual nature of the practice, as it does include sex rites.

*Sigh* One of the reasons why I hate discussing Wicca on Gaia (and yes, I am an initiated Wiccan; while I honestly do not care if someone is initiated or not, I feel that my entire post will be ignored by the "more-ignorant" masses if I do not point this out stressed ). Okay people, let me try to clear up some things for you (I am quite tired of this):

1. Identifying Wicca as an "orthopraxic" religion causes some serious misunderstandings, mostly because NO (and I mean NO) religion is entirely orthodoxic or orthopraxic; to call Wicca either one of these is rather narrow-minded (and shows that your knowledge of Wicca does not extend beyond the confines of the Internet).

Orthopraxy is important to Wicca, yes. Our values and virtues are universal to every tradition. HOWEVER, an orthodoxic belief in the balances of nature (namely fertility) and the importance of ritual are also important. BOTH of these things are needed for the religion. Just having the orthopraxy just means that you are just going through the motions, doing the rituals for no real reason (Belief IS important; why do you think we are doing the rituals? For fun?) and just having the orthodoxy means that you have empty faith, that you are not willing to show any appreciation for it ("You believe in the Goddess and the God; what you do to show that you do?" ).

Note: Orthopraxy means "correct action/practice" meaning how one behaves and acts, namely virtues, passing on traditions, values of family, etc. It DOES NOT mean the "correct practice of ritual", as that falls into the category of orthodoxy.

2. There are only a handful of current American Gardnerian covens who can truly trace their linage ALL THE WAY to Gardner, due in part to the fact only so many British Gardnerians came to the US and started covens (British Gardnerian Wiccas can, obviously, do this much better). Raymond Buckland started the trend and even some covens himself, however, he was not initiated by Gardner himself (though Gardner was present), so even those covens can't trace their linage all the way to Gardner. The closest would be Alexanderian Wiccans (albeit only few), as they are able to trace their line to Alex Sanders to Patricia Crowther to Gardner.

Because of this, it is rather ludicrous to continue saying that covens (or a single Wiccan) need to have linage to Gardner. Unless they are British, there is a big chance they are not fully able to do so.

3. Speaking of covens and initiations, the reason why one must be 18 to join a coven really has nothing to do with the "explicit sexual nature" of the initiation. The real reason is that those who are underage need the permission of their parents to join, not because of the sex, but because it is illegal to interfere with the religious choice of the parents for their children. For example, if a parent wants to raise their child with Christian values and not Wiccan ones, that is a decision we have to respect so long as the child is underage, no matter what the wishes of the child are. If we try to initiate someone who is underage without the permission of their parents, we could be potentially breaking the law. Rather than go through the trouble of contacting parents and asking for/confirming their permission (since kids can obviously lie) and risk potentially breaking the law, its easier to just wait until they are 18 when it doesn't matter what the parent says.

We also wait until a person is 18 because when they are interested as younger teens, they might want to join for all the wrong reasons. Waiting a couple of years gives them a chance to learn more about the religion before making the commitment.

4. And speaking of sex, there are barely any normal Wiccan rituals that (physically) involve sex or even mention it. While Wicca is a fertility religion, all that really means that we show reverence for the fertility in nature (ie the cycles); it does not mean that we have sexually explicit rituals (we would have a lot more members if this was true). This, of course, means that we do make references to sex (especially during Beltane), but they are certainly not of a "explicit sexual nature".

The closest would be the physical performing of the Great Rite. However, IF the Great Rite is physically performed (not every coven or tradition does this), then it is usually done in private (it can be performed in front of others, but again, that is not as common as people think).

To be honest, I find it laughable how non-Wiccans will tell other people that they are "fluffy-bunnies", that they don't know what they are talking about or how to "correctly" participate in a religion that they are not a part of. How do you know what happens during a ritual? How do you know what the religion is about? How do you know what is correct and what is not when even you yourself are not an initiated Wiccan (I am directing this at pretty much everybody)? In fact, what makes you think that you can tell others that they need to be an initiated Wiccan when you are not one? How much of this religion can you POSSIBLY know? Where did you get the info from? From a random person on a random thread on Gaia Online (by the way, please point where the author of "Wicca FAQs" said that she was a Wiccan; I have not seen anything on that page to tell me that)? From some random website? But I guess a thread and a website give you ALL the info that you need on this religion (since some of you are quick to denounce books on Wicca, books that you most likely have never read and if you did, you wouldn't have the balls to tell someone that they are not part of a religion that you were not a part of), so much so that you don't even need to belong to it in order to tell people if they are actually a member.

You claim to be Wiccan but what proof have you given? Scorplett and Morgaine are both Wiccan, a 3* Alexandrian and a 1* Gardnerian, and they agree with the Wiccan FAQ. Their status as properly initiated Wiccans has been confirmed. The author of the Wiccan FAQ never claimed to be Wiccan, but she uses primary sources, Gerald Gardner, to support her statements. As for the rest of your post and claims, where are your sources to support your statements? Do you have any primary sources or academic sources?