toasega
It is a hatred of the actions, not the people themselves. I am ANGRY with them, yes, but as far as being what you claim I am, that isn't me.
I understand being angry at the actions, but the way you voiced it, its not the actions you vilified, its the people.
toasega
In my OP I was speaking of how they cannot control their actions, and how those actions affect the rest of the race, hence the "You are the reason they call us animals" stuff. Some people like to toss out comments like "Well, what if white people do it? They're not animals then!" No, they ARE animals when they do it, and to say something like that makes it seem as though they are saying "Well, if those guys can do it and it's ok, then we should be able to do it too!" NO ONE should be rioting, and despite how low a person feels he/she has been brought down, resorting to violence like that will only affect the race poorly.
You know, I think I'm beginning to understand you chere. Now that you've gotten past the rage speech and have started explaining what you meant, I'm beginning to see where you are coming from with it.
wahmbulance But.......the rage.......it feels goooooodddd........Well, at least until it messes things up for everyone.
toasega
I also recall reading a few comments about how the "racist media portrays black people", even though we CAN and DO injure and kill each other on a regular basis. The media may sensationalize it (much as they do everything else), but there is, in fact, a good deal of truth to what they are saying.
I assume you are referring to black on black crime. You're right. Its far too high, and needs to come to an end. Differing viewpoints lead to rising tempers and then things get out of hand. Its understanding how and why that is difficult.
toasega
And those comments about what happened at my place of work? You think that was an isolated thing? Whenever I go out and see some people having a serious problem, it's other black people. I say we do this to ourselves because other people are SEEING and HEARING all of these things happen.
Almost every time they see another black person, they are usually loud, rude, and close to violence about many things.
I'm not so sure I can agree with the bold. If all they're seeing is what the media is showing them then that is true. But you're making a flawed assumption that few white people ever see a black person outside of the news.
toasega
Yes, life on the streets changes a person's way of thinking, so if it appears as though someone is disrespecting them, they feel like they have to defend their honor the only way they know how; angry words/threats, or if that fails, violence. And it isn't as though they completely don't know how to operate in any other world but that one, in fact, they DO know, they just seem to scorn everything about anything else that's different from them, even though it hurts them and the rest of us when they do so.
I can agree with this. Because your right, their reactions do hurt the way other people of color are seen. My main issue has been the usage of calling black folk animals, because its something a racist would say. Much of what you've said are things I've heard, personally, from white bigots, which no doubt affected my reaction to them.
toasega
Yeah, my OP could have been written better, but the actions of a few affect the many. They must learn this, and I don't know why you can't see this. It is far too easy to allow one's emotions to overtake them and make poor decisions, I am guilty of this as well. But to completely lose control and smash, burn and loot things, and then say "Well, it's fine when THEY do it!" as if it makes everything alright, as if you are not responsible for your actions, is wrong. You should be setting the proper example for the other members of your race. I realize my OP failed to do that, but I do stand by what I was trying to say, and what I have been trying to explain to you this entire time.
You're wrong in your assumption that I don't see how their actions affect the rest of us, chere. My main issue has always been the use of language that is often used by white racists. My other issue has been the way you seemed to have dismissed the way people of color are treated which can lead to violence, which in turn leads to people of color being treated poorly, and its a vicious cycle that some of the most vulnerable fall into.
toasega
You continue to get on my case for "not understanding" what I'm reading from you, but each time I respond to you, if I don't make every effort to spoon-feed you every single sentence, you'll miss what I'm trying to say, not read between any lines, and just take each sentence as literal.
And if I don't completely get what you're saying right away, at least I'm making the effort to continue the conversation and learn something. To ask me to "get it" right away is foolish, same as it is to ask of you, as we are both intrinsically flawed human beings. I will say this once more, as it is obvious that I need to stress this fact: I AM STUBBORN AS HELL. Despite my feelings on this topic, I do feel that there is a chance for me to learn something from a different perspective, but at the same time, if I strongly believe in my own opinions (which in this case I very much do), I will defend them to the bitter end, making the learning process slow.
I understand being stubborn, chere. Why do you think our conversation is still ongoing? I'm equally stubborn.
wink
I think you already are learning, because you've acknowledged that the way the OP is worded could have been done differently to express your opinion better.
toasega
Finally, on all this "you're a racist" business; WE'RE ALL RACISTS. If you live in the U.S. you're going to be racist in some fashion whether you realize it or not.
I don't think I ever actually said you ARE a racist, I said you were using white racist language. Although I did say that it makes you come across as a white racist in black skin, so perhaps that's where you're getting that I called you a racist from.
wahmbulance It wasn't just from you. I suppose I was subconsciously thinking of everyone else who has responded so far, calling me racist, uncle tom, etc, and I guess you represented all of them at once for me, so I'm sorry if I tacked things onto you that you didn't actually say.
toasega
Even many of the other flaws you notice in others and strongly dislike are very probably also a part of you, and to act as though the other person is wrong/flawed while you are a perfect, morally spotless human being is the highest form of arrogance. I'm flawed as hell. I will say that again, I AM FLAWED AS HELL. We all are. But if I see a problem that needs addressing, I'm going to say something about it. The way I present it needs work, but I'll never just shut up and deal with it.
I wouldn't expect you to shut up and deal with it. That doesn't help anyone at all. Just use a bit of caution in the wording so you can catch more flies. Since you've calmed down in your replies to me I've been able to see where you're coming from better, and able to see it more from your perspective.
Oh, I would never pretend to be perfect. I've had my own struggles with wanting to lash out, but I do what I can in my community to try to show the younger generation there is a better way. Even if I only get through to a few, its a start.
toasega
You probably think I've abandoned my own race. But I'd like you to remember what I told you before; I don't feel like I'm a part of any specific race, and the reason I'm in school is to gain skills that can allow me to help ALL races, and to do so in such a way that it would be impossible for anyone to not immediately begin to succeed in life. But as it stands, I really hate the self-destruction I see in my race and the problems it causes for the entire race, I DO NOT HATE THE PEOPLE THEMSELVES, you who apparently got a Master's Degree (good job) but can't realize that you can be angry about, or hate something, about a person or a thing but not hate the person or thing in and of itself.
Is that how I came across to you? That I was saying you hated black folk? I think I need to work on my own presentation then. What I was attempting to do was tell you that the wording suggested some self-hatred based on the color of your skin, and that you expressed that via lashing out at others.
wahmbulance I've gone through periods of self-loathing, but it was usually after seeing something like a Nicki Minaj video, followed by a horrible day at school, followed by a news report about yet another violent crime, which is then capped off by police and pedestrians being fearful and suspicious of me. I constantly have to remind myself that I'm not what they say or think I am, and I guess that's why I defend the "limitless potential" thing so much. If I just give up on myself, and don't care for other people who seem to give up on themselves, what does that make me? I fear becoming nothing most of all; dying without having contributed anything useful to the world and just drifting through life before dying, lost and unremembered in history as just a cog in the endless, unfeeling machine. And I don't want that for anyone else, either.
toasega
You can tell me all day about the struggles that they go through, and I can tell you all day about how I realize those struggles, but that they can persevere in them and get through the obtacles, and yeah, I did actually read your comments of some people who made it. I didn't ignore them, I just didn't address them. But if you want me to say something about it, I will. "Good for them, and I wish them luck."
Actually, they were people who tried very hard to make it and all of them have been shot and killed by police. That was the point I was trying to make. It doesn't matter how hard you try, if you are placed in a situation where a racist thinks you're threatening, even when you aren't, all your hard work will be for nothing. It isn't just the behaviors of the minority of young black men that needs to be addressed Its the overall racism that says 'black skin = threat' even when the person is unarmed or a child. I referenced mass murderers to make a point. The majority of serial killers have all been white, the majority of those who have committed mass shootings have been white, yet no one sees a white man walking down the street and immediately sees him as a threat. That is due to the racism that is rampant in the US.
wahmbulance Fair enough.
toasega
No, I will never fully understand why some of them seem to be unable to make it despite their struggles. That doesn't make me a racist, it doesn't make me an idiot, it only makes me human. If you want to call me a racist or a white supremacist, that's your deal, not mine, and I'd probably only respond by sending you a certain Dave Chappele comedy sketch anyway. But if you keep this up, knowing that I may never agree with you, this conversation could go on for MONTHS before one of us finally walks away.
See what I have already said about the racist thing.
For some the reason they never make it is because of blatant racism. To deny that is being naive. I don't think you're naive, at least you don't come across that way to me.
