The Decision to Drop: WWII Atomic Bomb

Was it the right decision?

Yes, it was a neccessity.	31.4%	[ 38 ]
No, it was immoral.	26.4%	[ 32 ]
It was immoral BUT a neccesity.	31.4%	[ 38 ]
On the fence.	10.7%	[ 13 ]
Total Votes:			[ 121 ]

[Sahandrian]

CommandoDude

Sahandrian

CommandoDude

Sahandrian

Drisil

Sahandrian

Hah! As disorganized as the Allies were after the initial landings, I think not. Rommel wanted to counterattack full-strength the very day of the invasion. Considering Rommel's skill and the Allied confusion, I believe Rommel would have bloodied the Allies bad enough to convince them to withdraw.

If you remember, that confusion was a kind of plus. I think it still would've worked out.

Also: the day after, Carahtan. 101st ABD, Easy Company was pounded by the same armor you're thinking of. They held off the HAV's long enough for the tanks on the beaches to come up and support them.

That was only a part of Rommel's reserve they got hit with. I am inclined to believe that Rommel could have caused an Allied evacuation. I'm not necessarily saying he would have demolished the Allies, but I believe he would have made things bad enough for them to panic and withdraw.

Most of his forces were in. Well. I have no idea how to spell it. That point in France closest to Britian.

The Germans had no air support. The Americans had overwhelming naval support. And Rommel was with his family that night.

Most. Not all. As for Rommel being with his family, I have no knowledge of that, but I guess it's possible. The thing is, the way Rommel fights, air and naval support wouldn't have done much against a full on counterattack. Erwin always hit hard and fast in the weakest point of the line. At the end of the day the Allies were barely off Omaha, and the beach was a ******** of casualties and equipment. Imagine the effect of Rommel smashing right into it. I could see the Allies retreating in confusion.

What are you talking about? Rommel rellied a lot on his air support in North Africa. Not only that but his favorite tactics were bait and lure. The British demonstrated well how Rommel failed again and again to attack static positions.

Also, the beaches were not a mess by the end of the day. Only Omaha was messed up. Most beaches had tanks during the Assualt. By the end of the day loads of equipment was on the beach, as well as two gigantic docks prefabricated.

Not to mention, had he charged the beaches he would have been going straight into Naval artillery. Devestatingly more powerful then ground based.

Rommel's bait and lures usually involved a counterattack at one point or another, hard, fast, and right at the weakest link. Sure, he failed at a few head on assaults, but Omaha was not exactly a fortress. As for Rommel and air spport, he bloodied the Allies at Kasserine without it, did he not? A Omaha was still a ******** because of the difficulties taking the beach, and naval gunfire would not have been used. Too much friendly fire risk. Now, if it were a straight up fight Rommel would lose. I'll give you that. However, it wouldn't have been a sraight up fight. It would have been a counterstroke followed by a bunch of allied commanders trying to figure out what the ******** was going on, and probably an Allied retreat from a battle they could have won.

[CommandoDude]

Sahandrian

CommandoDude

Sahandrian

CommandoDude

Sahandrian

That was only a part of Rommel's reserve they got hit with. I am inclined to believe that Rommel could have caused an Allied evacuation. I'm not necessarily saying he would have demolished the Allies, but I believe he would have made things bad enough for them to panic and withdraw.

Most of his forces were in. Well. I have no idea how to spell it. That point in France closest to Britian.

The Germans had no air support. The Americans had overwhelming naval support. And Rommel was with his family that night.

Most. Not all. As for Rommel being with his family, I have no knowledge of that, but I guess it's possible. The thing is, the way Rommel fights, air and naval support wouldn't have done much against a full on counterattack. Erwin always hit hard and fast in the weakest point of the line. At the end of the day the Allies were barely off Omaha, and the beach was a ******** of casualties and equipment. Imagine the effect of Rommel smashing right into it. I could see the Allies retreating in confusion.

What are you talking about? Rommel rellied a lot on his air support in North Africa. Not only that but his favorite tactics were bait and lure. The British demonstrated well how Rommel failed again and again to attack static positions.

Also, the beaches were not a mess by the end of the day. Only Omaha was messed up. Most beaches had tanks during the Assualt. By the end of the day loads of equipment was on the beach, as well as two gigantic docks prefabricated.

Not to mention, had he charged the beaches he would have been going straight into Naval artillery. Devestatingly more powerful then ground based.

Rommel's bait and lures usually involved a counterattack at one point or another, hard, fast, and right at the weakest link. Sure, he failed at a few head on assaults, but Omaha was not exactly a fortress. As for Rommel and air spport, he bloodied the Allies at Kasserine without it, did he not? A Omaha was still a ******** because of the difficulties taking the beach, and naval gunfire would not have been used. Too much friendly fire risk. Now, if it were a straight up fight Rommel would lose. I'll give you that. However, it wouldn't have been a sraight up fight. It would have been a counterstroke followed by a bunch of allied commanders trying to figure out what the ******** was going on, and probably an Allied retreat from a battle they could have won.

Yes, they involved a counterattack from fixed weapons. 88's. I've studied his tactics. While he bloodied us at Kasserine, I think you forget Romell had to retreat? He was being beaten back by the allies. Kassirine was a stall. And he only pulled it off due to geographically defensive favoritism.

Also, Allied commanders would've known about such a counter attack due to so many advance paratroopers miles ahead, who would've spotted it, and recon planes. Ample time to prepare. Naval gunfire is accurate up to 20 miles away 16" guns. Far enough for the allies to call in accurate strikes using recon planes. Right up to the beachhead, and Rommel would have had to go through his own taken over defensive positions. Not to mention an invasion force that would've outnumbered him.

A retreat would have been impossible anyways. There's no way you can onload troops from a beach under fire. Landing craft weren't designed to do that. And LSTs would've been sitting ducks.

[The Diamond God]

CommandoDude

Sahandrian

Drisil

Sahandrian

Drisil

Sahandrian

Also, remember that Hitler refused to believe that Normandy was a real invasion, and made Rommel hold his panzers in reserve. If Hitler had let Rommel do as he pleased the Allies would have been shoved right back into the sea.

Most people belive that. Honestly, I don't. I belive the casulties would've risen almost up to seventy percent, but I think it would've been done.

Hah! As disorganized as the Allies were after the initial landings, I think not. Rommel wanted to counterattack full-strength the very day of the invasion. Considering Rommel's skill and the Allied confusion, I believe Rommel would have bloodied the Allies bad enough to convince them to withdraw.

If you remember, that confusion was a kind of plus. I think it still would've worked out.

Also: the day after, Carahtan. 101st ABD, Easy Company was pounded by the same armor you're thinking of. They held off the HAV's long enough for the tanks on the beaches to come up and support them.

That was only a part of Rommel's reserve they got hit with. I am inclined to believe that Rommel could have caused an Allied evacuation. I'm not necessarily saying he would have demolished the Allies, but I believe he would have made things bad enough for them to panic and withdraw.

Most of his forces were in. Well. I have no idea how to spell it. That point in France closest to Britian.

The Germans had no air support. The Americans had overwhelming naval support. And Rommel was with his family that night.

Normandy was the farthest point from the LP. The accepted (or expected) form of attack would be to attack the closest point. To offset this, they attacked Normany(ies). That was the whole idea.

The Allies Air was useless. Because of the overcast skies, they missed their objectives completely, much like the paratroopers. The naval bombardments as well.

Rommel being with his family is irrelevant; the phone had been invented by then.

[The Diamond God]

FleetingChevalier

El Zombo Fantasma

holdingontobelieve

The bombings gave a speedy end to the war and was much safer than an invasion. But what was the cost? Thousands of civilian lives. Mothers, daughters, children... the list goes on.
...Does the end justify the means? How far can we go to ensure our own security?

And I suppose the people killed in Pearl Harbor weren't any of those things?

What I always find funny about all these threads are the fact hardly anyone knows about the Asian holocaust. Other than the fact they had failed at attacking us before, the 10,000,000+ (more than 6,000,000 of which were mixed Asian nationalities) killings the Japanese had committed between 1937 and 1945 was the real reason.

Some key items to research before you call me a liar:
o Japanese Warcrimes
o 'The Rape of Nanking'
o Unit 731

Not enough people even KNOW about the Japanese barbarity in Asia you are absolutely correct, was as bad if not worse than hitler and the nazis, more terrible because they just DID it, no grand scheme of extermination or genocide was in place, just spontaneous savagery on the part of the common soldier.

Incorrect. The savargrey was ordered by the officers. They soldiers just enjoed it much more then they should have, is all.

Constantly, the PTO is being pushed aside, because they didn't have much of an overall impact as the ETO did. The Chinese/Japanese hatred was already in full swing at this point; Westerns think of the carnage mostly as just "waring tribes."

[The Diamond God]

sipoxxtiger

too lazy to cite sources, but the nuc. bombs were dropped on Japan to intimidate the USSR and show those communist punks exactly who they were messing with. btw, a telegram(or a message of some sort) of negotiation was sent from Japan to the U.S. as they were preparing to drop the bombs. even so, don't you think that ONE bomb would've sufficed?! it's honestly amazing that America has never been held for war trials considering that they deliberately attack civilians, which is illegal internationally, in most wars.
btw, as for the person who mentioned japan's human experiments during WW2, the U.S. was in on it

By the GC, it's considered a war crime. However, because there was a substantial force of military personal in the cities, it is legal. It's the same everywhere.

[The Diamond God]

CommandoDude

Sahandrian

CommandoDude

Sahandrian

CommandoDude

Sahandrian

That was only a part of Rommel's reserve they got hit with. I am inclined to believe that Rommel could have caused an Allied evacuation. I'm not necessarily saying he would have demolished the Allies, but I believe he would have made things bad enough for them to panic and withdraw.

Most of his forces were in. Well. I have no idea how to spell it. That point in France closest to Britian.

The Germans had no air support. The Americans had overwhelming naval support. And Rommel was with his family that night.

Most. Not all. As for Rommel being with his family, I have no knowledge of that, but I guess it's possible. The thing is, the way Rommel fights, air and naval support wouldn't have done much against a full on counterattack. Erwin always hit hard and fast in the weakest point of the line. At the end of the day the Allies were barely off Omaha, and the beach was a ******** of casualties and equipment. Imagine the effect of Rommel smashing right into it. I could see the Allies retreating in confusion.

What are you talking about? Rommel rellied a lot on his air support in North Africa. Not only that but his favorite tactics were bait and lure. The British demonstrated well how Rommel failed again and again to attack static positions.

Also, the beaches were not a mess by the end of the day. Only Omaha was messed up. Most beaches had tanks during the Assualt. By the end of the day loads of equipment was on the beach, as well as two gigantic docks prefabricated.

Not to mention, had he charged the beaches he would have been going straight into Naval artillery. Devestatingly more powerful then ground based.

Rommel's bait and lures usually involved a counterattack at one point or another, hard, fast, and right at the weakest link. Sure, he failed at a few head on assaults, but Omaha was not exactly a fortress. As for Rommel and air spport, he bloodied the Allies at Kasserine without it, did he not? A Omaha was still a ******** because of the difficulties taking the beach, and naval gunfire would not have been used. Too much friendly fire risk. Now, if it were a straight up fight Rommel would lose. I'll give you that. However, it wouldn't have been a sraight up fight. It would have been a counterstroke followed by a bunch of allied commanders trying to figure out what the ******** was going on, and probably an Allied retreat from a battle they could have won.

Yes, they involved a counterattack from fixed weapons. 88's. I've studied his tactics. While he bloodied us at Kasserine, I think you forget Romell had to retreat? He was being beaten back by the allies. Kassirine was a stall. And he only pulled it off due to geographically defensive favoritism.

Also, Allied commanders would've known about such a counter attack due to so many advance paratroopers miles ahead, who would've spotted it, and recon planes. Ample time to prepare. Naval gunfire is accurate up to 20 miles away 16" guns. Far enough for the allies to call in accurate strikes using recon planes. Right up to the beachhead, and Rommel would have had to go through his own taken over defensive positions. Not to mention an invasion force that would've outnumbered him.

A retreat would have been impossible anyways. There's no way you can onload troops from a beach under fire. Landing craft weren't designed to do that. And LSTs would've been sitting ducks.

After an initial assault, any fixed positions that would've been effective in a counter were all capture within five days of "D-Day."

The "recon planes" were all in use elsewhere...where there wasn't a heavy cloud cover negating them. The only reasonable option for a scout would've been the paratroopers. But to get the coordinates back at Omaha (or wherever) they'd have to be relied twenty times over. By the time the Brass gets the request, and OK's it, the AB would've been overrun, and retreating.

"Accurate Navel Guns" is an oxymoron. XD To neutralize a specific building, they'd pulverize an entire city block. There is no way the guns could be used as covering fire.

[Zombie_Avenger]

It was the right thing to do.The jap's would not stop fighting with us.
We had to do it.