The Decision to Drop: WWII Atomic Bomb

Was it the right decision?

Yes, it was a neccessity.	31.4%	[ 38 ]
No, it was immoral.	26.4%	[ 32 ]
It was immoral BUT a neccesity.	31.4%	[ 38 ]
On the fence.	10.7%	[ 13 ]
Total Votes:			[ 121 ]

[FleetingChevalier]

Sparatcus

John Ryder

Sparatcus

And dragged the war out an indeterminate number of years. I'd rather just under 200,000 (Both bombs combined) deaths, than a couple million on both sides.

It just makes numerical sense to me, I dont know

200,000 < 2,000,0000

It was widely known that Japan was very close to surrendering anyway. It was less about Japan and more about showing Russia that the US had the nuke.

Yes yes conspiracy conspiracy. It had nothing to do with, oh, lets say
America pulled off one D-Day against all odds, invading Japan would involve the same luck
The whole world had had enough of this war
It was a war, who cares about the "enemy", millions were dead, America wrapped the war up nice and quickly. They cared about their own numbers, not the Japanese's

And finally
It's been done. You can b***h all you want about OH MAN AMERICA DID THE WRONG THING THEY ARE TERRIBLE THEY ALWAYS HAVE BEEN, but it was a different time, with different values, and you can't apply hindsight to it while at the same time being fair to the people of the time

D Day was hardly a last chance gambit, you dont land quarter million fellows along the french coastline on a wing and a prayer, it went off largely without terrible loss, save for isolated bad landings on Omaha and one of the Canadian beaches. and having landed on beaches on every two bit isle in the pacific including okinawa which is practically a home island of Japan, they had it down pat I'd wager.

And on the subject of the "enemy" Does being at war with a nation entitle us to burn said nation's home cities to the ground? or to use the most destructive weapons of this or any age as yet on not one but two cities without so much as a warning? With Japan on the cusp of economic and military collapse as well, basically ready to surrender. If you are in a fight with some guy on the street and beating him badly, you dont get a buddy to go set his grandma's house on fire.

[Oswal]

The Japanese had Kamikaze's...
Soldiers ready to die for their country... literally...
If they had that mentality...
I really doubt surrendering was on their minds...
They would have fought til the last soldier...
They needed a scare that big to destroy their nationalistic ways...

[The Diamond God]

FleetingChevalier

D-Day was hardly a last chance gambit, you dont land quarter million fellows along the french coastline on a wing and a prayer, it went off largely without terrible loss, save for isolated bad landings on Omaha and one of the Canadian beaches. and having landed on beaches on every two bit isle in the pacific including okinawa which is practically a home island of Japan, they had it down pat I'd wager.

You'd be surprised, actaully. ^.^

"D-Day" was a major gambit...just not a last resort one. Massive preperations went into it...so much so, the Allies put Patton in charge of what is now known as the "Phantom Army." The men were landed on the farthest coast line away from the launching point. Four entire Paratrooper (two american, one british, one french) regiments were depolyed the night before (expecting, hopefully fifty percent casulties) to sieze key positions and ease the egress off the beaches.

Omaha and the Canoks suffered their losses right off the bat. Other elements of the invasion force had little to no resistance on the beachheads. It was the costal houses full of MG's and the villages with heavy armor and artillery.

The generals operating in the seperate theatres didn't ever really mingle. Nor did the units. Those who operated in the Invasion of Normandy (ION) stayed in the ETO, and those in the PTO stayed in the PTO.

"Even the best laid plans are blown to pieces when contact is made with the enemy."

Summation: ION was mostly sent off on a wing and prayer...

[Sahandrian]

Drisil

FleetingChevalier

D-Day was hardly a last chance gambit, you dont land quarter million fellows along the french coastline on a wing and a prayer, it went off largely without terrible loss, save for isolated bad landings on Omaha and one of the Canadian beaches. and having landed on beaches on every two bit isle in the pacific including okinawa which is practically a home island of Japan, they had it down pat I'd wager.

You'd be surprised, actaully. ^.^

"D-Day" was a major gambit...just not a last resort one. Massive preperations went into it...so much so, the Allies put Patton in charge of what is now known as the "Phantom Army." The men were landed on the farthest coast line away from the launching point. Four entire Paratrooper (two american, one british, one french) regiments were depolyed the night before (expecting, hopefully fifty percent casulties) to sieze key positions and ease the egress off the beaches.

Omaha and the Canoks suffered their losses right off the bat. Other elements of the invasion force had little to no resistance on the beachheads. It was the costal houses full of MG's and the villages with heavy armor and artillery.

The generals operating in the seperate theatres didn't ever really mingle. Nor did the units. Those who operated in the Invasion of Normandy (ION) stayed in the ETO, and those in the PTO stayed in the PTO.

"Even the best laid plans are blown to pieces when contact is made with the enemy."

Summation: ION was mostly sent off on a wing and prayer...

Also, remember that Hitler refused to believe that Normandy was a real invasion, and made Rommel hold his panzers in reserve. If Hitler had let Rommel do as he pleased the Allies would have been shoved right back into the sea.

[The Diamond God]

Sahandrian

Drisil

FleetingChevalier

D-Day was hardly a last chance gambit, you dont land quarter million fellows along the french coastline on a wing and a prayer, it went off largely without terrible loss, save for isolated bad landings on Omaha and one of the Canadian beaches. and having landed on beaches on every two bit isle in the pacific including okinawa which is practically a home island of Japan, they had it down pat I'd wager.

You'd be surprised, actaully. ^.^

"D-Day" was a major gambit...just not a last resort one. Massive preperations went into it...so much so, the Allies put Patton in charge of what is now known as the "Phantom Army." The men were landed on the farthest coast line away from the launching point. Four entire Paratrooper (two american, one british, one french) regiments were depolyed the night before (expecting, hopefully fifty percent casulties) to sieze key positions and ease the egress off the beaches.

Omaha and the Canoks suffered their losses right off the bat. Other elements of the invasion force had little to no resistance on the beachheads. It was the costal houses full of MG's and the villages with heavy armor and artillery.

The generals operating in the seperate theatres didn't ever really mingle. Nor did the units. Those who operated in the Invasion of Normandy (ION) stayed in the ETO, and those in the PTO stayed in the PTO.

"Even the best laid plans are blown to pieces when contact is made with the enemy."

Summation: ION was mostly sent off on a wing and prayer...

Also, remember that Hitler refused to believe that Normandy was a real invasion, and made Rommel hold his panzers in reserve. If Hitler had let Rommel do as he pleased the Allies would have been shoved right back into the sea.

Most people belive that. Honestly, I don't. I belive the casulties would've risen almost up to seventy percent, but I think it would've been done.

[Sahandrian]

Drisil

Sahandrian

Drisil

FleetingChevalier

D-Day was hardly a last chance gambit, you dont land quarter million fellows along the french coastline on a wing and a prayer, it went off largely without terrible loss, save for isolated bad landings on Omaha and one of the Canadian beaches. and having landed on beaches on every two bit isle in the pacific including okinawa which is practically a home island of Japan, they had it down pat I'd wager.

You'd be surprised, actaully. ^.^

"D-Day" was a major gambit...just not a last resort one. Massive preperations went into it...so much so, the Allies put Patton in charge of what is now known as the "Phantom Army." The men were landed on the farthest coast line away from the launching point. Four entire Paratrooper (two american, one british, one french) regiments were depolyed the night before (expecting, hopefully fifty percent casulties) to sieze key positions and ease the egress off the beaches.

Omaha and the Canoks suffered their losses right off the bat. Other elements of the invasion force had little to no resistance on the beachheads. It was the costal houses full of MG's and the villages with heavy armor and artillery.

The generals operating in the seperate theatres didn't ever really mingle. Nor did the units. Those who operated in the Invasion of Normandy (ION) stayed in the ETO, and those in the PTO stayed in the PTO.

"Even the best laid plans are blown to pieces when contact is made with the enemy."

Summation: ION was mostly sent off on a wing and prayer...

Also, remember that Hitler refused to believe that Normandy was a real invasion, and made Rommel hold his panzers in reserve. If Hitler had let Rommel do as he pleased the Allies would have been shoved right back into the sea.

Most people belive that. Honestly, I don't. I belive the casulties would've risen almost up to seventy percent, but I think it would've been done.

Hah! As disorganized as the Allies were after the initial landings, I think not. Rommel wanted to counterattack full-strength the very day of the invasion. Considering Rommel's skill and the Allied confusion, I believe Rommel would have bloodied the Allies bad enough to convince them to withdraw.

[The Diamond God]

Sahandrian

Drisil

Sahandrian

Drisil

FleetingChevalier

D-Day was hardly a last chance gambit, you dont land quarter million fellows along the french coastline on a wing and a prayer, it went off largely without terrible loss, save for isolated bad landings on Omaha and one of the Canadian beaches. and having landed on beaches on every two bit isle in the pacific including okinawa which is practically a home island of Japan, they had it down pat I'd wager.

You'd be surprised, actaully. ^.^

"D-Day" was a major gambit...just not a last resort one. Massive preperations went into it...so much so, the Allies put Patton in charge of what is now known as the "Phantom Army." The men were landed on the farthest coast line away from the launching point. Four entire Paratrooper (two american, one british, one french) regiments were depolyed the night before (expecting, hopefully fifty percent casulties) to sieze key positions and ease the egress off the beaches.

Omaha and the Canoks suffered their losses right off the bat. Other elements of the invasion force had little to no resistance on the beachheads. It was the costal houses full of MG's and the villages with heavy armor and artillery.

The generals operating in the seperate theatres didn't ever really mingle. Nor did the units. Those who operated in the Invasion of Normandy (ION) stayed in the ETO, and those in the PTO stayed in the PTO.

"Even the best laid plans are blown to pieces when contact is made with the enemy."

Summation: ION was mostly sent off on a wing and prayer...

Also, remember that Hitler refused to believe that Normandy was a real invasion, and made Rommel hold his panzers in reserve. If Hitler had let Rommel do as he pleased the Allies would have been shoved right back into the sea.

Most people belive that. Honestly, I don't. I belive the casulties would've risen almost up to seventy percent, but I think it would've been done.

Hah! As disorganized as the Allies were after the initial landings, I think not. Rommel wanted to counterattack full-strength the very day of the invasion. Considering Rommel's skill and the Allied confusion, I believe Rommel would have bloodied the Allies bad enough to convince them to withdraw.

If you remember, that confusion was a kind of plus. I think it still would've worked out.

Also: the day after, Carahtan. 101st ABD, Easy Company was pounded by the same armor you're thinking of. They held off the HAV's long enough for the tanks on the beaches to come up and support them.

[xXBunnehKunXx]

All is fair in love and war and what about the immorality of the kamikaze pilots?...They were commiting suicide just to attack us...

[Sahandrian]

Drisil

Sahandrian

Drisil

Sahandrian

Drisil

FleetingChevalier

D-Day was hardly a last chance gambit, you dont land quarter million fellows along the french coastline on a wing and a prayer, it went off largely without terrible loss, save for isolated bad landings on Omaha and one of the Canadian beaches. and having landed on beaches on every two bit isle in the pacific including okinawa which is practically a home island of Japan, they had it down pat I'd wager.

You'd be surprised, actaully. ^.^

"D-Day" was a major gambit...just not a last resort one. Massive preperations went into it...so much so, the Allies put Patton in charge of what is now known as the "Phantom Army." The men were landed on the farthest coast line away from the launching point. Four entire Paratrooper (two american, one british, one french) regiments were depolyed the night before (expecting, hopefully fifty percent casulties) to sieze key positions and ease the egress off the beaches.

Omaha and the Canoks suffered their losses right off the bat. Other elements of the invasion force had little to no resistance on the beachheads. It was the costal houses full of MG's and the villages with heavy armor and artillery.

The generals operating in the seperate theatres didn't ever really mingle. Nor did the units. Those who operated in the Invasion of Normandy (ION) stayed in the ETO, and those in the PTO stayed in the PTO.

"Even the best laid plans are blown to pieces when contact is made with the enemy."

Summation: ION was mostly sent off on a wing and prayer...

Also, remember that Hitler refused to believe that Normandy was a real invasion, and made Rommel hold his panzers in reserve. If Hitler had let Rommel do as he pleased the Allies would have been shoved right back into the sea.

Most people belive that. Honestly, I don't. I belive the casulties would've risen almost up to seventy percent, but I think it would've been done.

Hah! As disorganized as the Allies were after the initial landings, I think not. Rommel wanted to counterattack full-strength the very day of the invasion. Considering Rommel's skill and the Allied confusion, I believe Rommel would have bloodied the Allies bad enough to convince them to withdraw.

If you remember, that confusion was a kind of plus. I think it still would've worked out.

Also: the day after, Carahtan. 101st ABD, Easy Company was pounded by the same armor you're thinking of. They held off the HAV's long enough for the tanks on the beaches to come up and support them.

That was only a part of Rommel's reserve they got hit with. I am inclined to believe that Rommel could have caused an Allied evacuation. I'm not necessarily saying he would have demolished the Allies, but I believe he would have made things bad enough for them to panic and withdraw.

[CommandoDude]

Sahandrian

Drisil

Sahandrian

Drisil

Sahandrian

Also, remember that Hitler refused to believe that Normandy was a real invasion, and made Rommel hold his panzers in reserve. If Hitler had let Rommel do as he pleased the Allies would have been shoved right back into the sea.

Most people belive that. Honestly, I don't. I belive the casulties would've risen almost up to seventy percent, but I think it would've been done.

Hah! As disorganized as the Allies were after the initial landings, I think not. Rommel wanted to counterattack full-strength the very day of the invasion. Considering Rommel's skill and the Allied confusion, I believe Rommel would have bloodied the Allies bad enough to convince them to withdraw.

If you remember, that confusion was a kind of plus. I think it still would've worked out.

Also: the day after, Carahtan. 101st ABD, Easy Company was pounded by the same armor you're thinking of. They held off the HAV's long enough for the tanks on the beaches to come up and support them.

That was only a part of Rommel's reserve they got hit with. I am inclined to believe that Rommel could have caused an Allied evacuation. I'm not necessarily saying he would have demolished the Allies, but I believe he would have made things bad enough for them to panic and withdraw.

Most of his forces were in. Well. I have no idea how to spell it. That point in France closest to Britian.

The Germans had no air support. The Americans had overwhelming naval support. And Rommel was with his family that night.

[Sahandrian]

CommandoDude

Sahandrian

Drisil

Sahandrian

Drisil

Sahandrian

Also, remember that Hitler refused to believe that Normandy was a real invasion, and made Rommel hold his panzers in reserve. If Hitler had let Rommel do as he pleased the Allies would have been shoved right back into the sea.

Most people belive that. Honestly, I don't. I belive the casulties would've risen almost up to seventy percent, but I think it would've been done.

Hah! As disorganized as the Allies were after the initial landings, I think not. Rommel wanted to counterattack full-strength the very day of the invasion. Considering Rommel's skill and the Allied confusion, I believe Rommel would have bloodied the Allies bad enough to convince them to withdraw.

If you remember, that confusion was a kind of plus. I think it still would've worked out.

Also: the day after, Carahtan. 101st ABD, Easy Company was pounded by the same armor you're thinking of. They held off the HAV's long enough for the tanks on the beaches to come up and support them.

That was only a part of Rommel's reserve they got hit with. I am inclined to believe that Rommel could have caused an Allied evacuation. I'm not necessarily saying he would have demolished the Allies, but I believe he would have made things bad enough for them to panic and withdraw.

Most of his forces were in. Well. I have no idea how to spell it. That point in France closest to Britian.

The Germans had no air support. The Americans had overwhelming naval support. And Rommel was with his family that night.

Most. Not all. As for Rommel being with his family, I have no knowledge of that, but I guess it's possible. The thing is, the way Rommel fights, air and naval support wouldn't have done much against a full on counterattack. Erwin always hit hard and fast in the weakest point of the line. At the end of the day the Allies were barely off Omaha, and the beach was a ******** of casualties and equipment. Imagine the effect of Rommel smashing right into it. I could see the Allies retreating in confusion.

[FleetingChevalier]

El Zombo Fantasma

holdingontobelieve

The bombings gave a speedy end to the war and was much safer than an invasion. But what was the cost? Thousands of civilian lives. Mothers, daughters, children... the list goes on.
...Does the end justify the means? How far can we go to ensure our own security?

And I suppose the people killed in Pearl Harbor weren't any of those things?

What I always find funny about all these threads are the fact hardly anyone knows about the Asian holocaust. Other than the fact they had failed at attacking us before, the 10,000,000+ (more than 6,000,000 of which were mixed Asian nationalities) killings the Japanese had committed between 1937 and 1945 was the real reason.

Some key items to research before you call me a liar:
o Japanese Warcrimes
o 'The Rape of Nanking'
o Unit 731

Not enough people even KNOW about the Japanese barbarity in Asia you are absolutely correct, was as bad if not worse than hitler and the nazis, more terrible because they just DID it, no grand scheme of extermination or genocide was in place, just spontaneous savagery on the part of the common soldier.

[CommandoDude]

Sahandrian

CommandoDude

Sahandrian

Drisil

Sahandrian

Hah! As disorganized as the Allies were after the initial landings, I think not. Rommel wanted to counterattack full-strength the very day of the invasion. Considering Rommel's skill and the Allied confusion, I believe Rommel would have bloodied the Allies bad enough to convince them to withdraw.

If you remember, that confusion was a kind of plus. I think it still would've worked out.

Also: the day after, Carahtan. 101st ABD, Easy Company was pounded by the same armor you're thinking of. They held off the HAV's long enough for the tanks on the beaches to come up and support them.

That was only a part of Rommel's reserve they got hit with. I am inclined to believe that Rommel could have caused an Allied evacuation. I'm not necessarily saying he would have demolished the Allies, but I believe he would have made things bad enough for them to panic and withdraw.

Most of his forces were in. Well. I have no idea how to spell it. That point in France closest to Britian.

The Germans had no air support. The Americans had overwhelming naval support. And Rommel was with his family that night.

Most. Not all. As for Rommel being with his family, I have no knowledge of that, but I guess it's possible. The thing is, the way Rommel fights, air and naval support wouldn't have done much against a full on counterattack. Erwin always hit hard and fast in the weakest point of the line. At the end of the day the Allies were barely off Omaha, and the beach was a ******** of casualties and equipment. Imagine the effect of Rommel smashing right into it. I could see the Allies retreating in confusion.

What are you talking about? Rommel rellied a lot on his air support in North Africa. Not only that but his favorite tactics were bait and lure. The British demonstrated well how Rommel failed again and again to attack static positions.

Also, the beaches were not a mess by the end of the day. Only Omaha was messed up. Most beaches had tanks during the Assualt. By the end of the day loads of equipment was on the beach, as well as two gigantic docks prefabricated.

Not to mention, had he charged the beaches he would have been going straight into Naval artillery. Devestatingly more powerful then ground based.

[sipoxxtiger]

too lazy to cite sources, but the nuc. bombs were dropped on Japan to intimidate the USSR and show those communist punks exactly who they were messing with. btw, a telegram(or a message of some sort) of negotiation was sent from Japan to the U.S. as they were preparing to drop the bombs. even so, don't you think that ONE bomb would've sufficed?! it's honestly amazing that America has never been held for war trials considering that they deliberately attack civilians, which is illegal internationally, in most wars.
btw, as for the person who mentioned japan's human experiments during WW2, the U.S. was in on it