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Does count Duku deserve death? Yes.

But while it might be okay to kill him, killing him in that manner is wrong. He was a prisoner, who surrendered, and at the very least, he deserves the right to a fair trial.


This was a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. He had no identifiable entitlements to American rights.


But they're unalienable rights.

So even aliens get them. ninja


They're unailenable, in the eyes of the American people. To places even as close as China, they're a distant dream. Multiply that distance by many, many light years, and reverse time to a point long before Earth was discovered, let alone America founded, and...well...what the ******** is a right to a "fair trial"?


Um...

I hold the truths to be self evident, so I don't have to explain anything. ninja


And I hold the truth to be self-evident, that a cruel b*****d like Dooku, be shown zero mercy for his crimes. That his begging for mercy, be not but sugar on the fruit of vengeance.


You have mercy, you have care, to express mercy and have empathy and sympathy for him.

You just kill him anyways.
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No.
Throwing jars of piss at people, now that's evil!
...
Unless it's a farm!

But seriously, no. Every state throughout history has always killed it's citizens when they cross some imaginary line called a law. Nothing new, nothing avoidable.

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In Star Wars episode 3,
Anakin Skywalker is told by Darth Sidious/Chancellor Palpatine to kill Count Dooku.
Count Dooku is unarmed and Anakin feels it would be wrong to execute him.
He kills Dooku and starts on the path to the dark side.

Is using the death penalty the path to the dark side?


Considering the fact that I've never been a big Star Wars fan, and only watched the "prequels" for the interests of a buddy of mine (he wanted to see 3 together, so I had to watch the other 2, so I wouldn't be completely lost), let me just say something....

You're an idiot. Anikan was already on that path of darkness, long before that execution scene. Remember in Episode 2, when he went nuts and murdered a whole bunch of people "...even the women...and children, too."? Yeah. Dooku was well past the off-ramp to dark-side. Just another pit-stop, along the way.
Killing of Dooku was what pushed Annie over the tip.
Annie still had a semblence of morality left when he argued that killing Dooku unarmed wouldnt be honourable after getting over that moral conundrum, he had no issue with killing all those Jedi kids.

The Death Penalty is a barbaric practice which makes us ALL murderers.
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Kadaverus
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In Star Wars episode 3,
Anakin Skywalker is told by Darth Sidious/Chancellor Palpatine to kill Count Dooku.
Count Dooku is unarmed and Anakin feels it would be wrong to execute him.
He kills Dooku and starts on the path to the dark side.

Is using the death penalty the path to the dark side?


Considering the fact that I've never been a big Star Wars fan, and only watched the "prequels" for the interests of a buddy of mine (he wanted to see 3 together, so I had to watch the other 2, so I wouldn't be completely lost), let me just say something....

You're an idiot. Anikan was already on that path of darkness, long before that execution scene. Remember in Episode 2, when he went nuts and murdered a whole bunch of people "...even the women...and children, too."? Yeah. Dooku was well past the off-ramp to dark-side. Just another pit-stop, along the way.
Killing of Dooku was what pushed Annie over the tip.
Annie still had a semblence of morality left when he argued that killing Dooku unarmed wouldnt be honourable after getting over that moral conundrum, he had no issue with killing all those Jedi kids.

The Death Penalty is a barbaric practice which makes us ALL murderers.


Considering the fact that the death penalty is perfectly legal, if performed within legal parameters, then no...it doesn't make us murderers.

Also, how does the government killing people make us all murderers?
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In Star Wars episode 3,
Anakin Skywalker is told by Darth Sidious/Chancellor Palpatine to kill Count Dooku.
Count Dooku is unarmed and Anakin feels it would be wrong to execute him.
He kills Dooku and starts on the path to the dark side.

Is using the death penalty the path to the dark side?


Considering the fact that I've never been a big Star Wars fan, and only watched the "prequels" for the interests of a buddy of mine (he wanted to see 3 together, so I had to watch the other 2, so I wouldn't be completely lost), let me just say something....

You're an idiot. Anikan was already on that path of darkness, long before that execution scene. Remember in Episode 2, when he went nuts and murdered a whole bunch of people "...even the women...and children, too."? Yeah. Dooku was well past the off-ramp to dark-side. Just another pit-stop, along the way.
Killing of Dooku was what pushed Annie over the tip.
Annie still had a semblence of morality left when he argued that killing Dooku unarmed wouldnt be honourable after getting over that moral conundrum, he had no issue with killing all those Jedi kids.

The Death Penalty is a barbaric practice which makes us ALL murderers.


Considering the fact that the death penalty is perfectly legal, if performed within legal parameters, then no...it doesn't make us murderers.

Also, how does the government killing people make us all murderers?


Where does the money for executions come from?
Taxes

Who pays taxes?
The public

Who are the public?
We are

Who pays the executions?
We do

If killing someone is a reprehensible and vile act...
Then why is it okay to kill someone?
black_wing_angel
The Marvelous Joshua
I think we should bring back gladiator fights. That way we don't actually "kill anyone"


Killing someone who deserves to die. Maybe I'm some degree of sociopath, but I could live with it.


you could live with it. that isn't to say you wouldn't have remorse for killing somebody. that just means it's a trade off you'd be willing to accept. it's like taking a bullet for somebody. it sucks, but it's worth it.
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Wise Owl Eye
In Star Wars episode 3,
Anakin Skywalker is told by Darth Sidious/Chancellor Palpatine to kill Count Dooku.
Count Dooku is unarmed and Anakin feels it would be wrong to execute him.
He kills Dooku and starts on the path to the dark side.

Is using the death penalty the path to the dark side?


Considering the fact that I've never been a big Star Wars fan, and only watched the "prequels" for the interests of a buddy of mine (he wanted to see 3 together, so I had to watch the other 2, so I wouldn't be completely lost), let me just say something....

You're an idiot. Anikan was already on that path of darkness, long before that execution scene. Remember in Episode 2, when he went nuts and murdered a whole bunch of people "...even the women...and children, too."? Yeah. Dooku was well past the off-ramp to dark-side. Just another pit-stop, along the way.
Killing of Dooku was what pushed Annie over the tip.
Annie still had a semblence of morality left when he argued that killing Dooku unarmed wouldnt be honourable after getting over that moral conundrum, he had no issue with killing all those Jedi kids.

The Death Penalty is a barbaric practice which makes us ALL murderers.


Considering the fact that the death penalty is perfectly legal, if performed within legal parameters, then no...it doesn't make us murderers.

Also, how does the government killing people make us all murderers?


Where does the money for executions come from?
Taxes

Who pays taxes?
The public

Who are the public?
We are

Who pays the executions?
We do


Who decides where our tax money goes?
Not us. We just pay them, as per the law. We are guilty of no crime.

Quote:
If killing someone is a reprehensible and vile act...
Then why is it okay to kill someone?


Who says it's reprehensible by default? Certainly not the law, nor human nature. The only time it's considered legally reprehensible (in most places), is if it's unprovoked, or the product of misconduct or negligence. I accidentally hit someone with my car? My bad, and I pay for it. I stab the guy next door, because he won't keep his dog off my side of the driveway? That's bad.

I shoot a home invader in the "heat of the moment" to defend what is mine? Just doing my civil duty to protect myself. I gun down insurgents in the middle east? War hero.
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Considering the fact that I've never been a big Star Wars fan, and only watched the "prequels" for the interests of a buddy of mine (he wanted to see 3 together, so I had to watch the other 2, so I wouldn't be completely lost), let me just say something....

You're an idiot. Anikan was already on that path of darkness, long before that execution scene. Remember in Episode 2, when he went nuts and murdered a whole bunch of people "...even the women...and children, too."? Yeah. Dooku was well past the off-ramp to dark-side. Just another pit-stop, along the way.
Killing of Dooku was what pushed Annie over the tip.
Annie still had a semblence of morality left when he argued that killing Dooku unarmed wouldnt be honourable after getting over that moral conundrum, he had no issue with killing all those Jedi kids.

The Death Penalty is a barbaric practice which makes us ALL murderers.


Considering the fact that the death penalty is perfectly legal, if performed within legal parameters, then no...it doesn't make us murderers.

Also, how does the government killing people make us all murderers?


Where does the money for executions come from?
Taxes

Who pays taxes?
The public

Who are the public?
We are

Who pays the executions?
We do


Who decides where our tax money goes?
Not us. We just pay them, as per the law. We are guilty of no crime.

We could stop them. There's more of us than them.
When we elect leaders, we decide to turn over our decisions to them. Because WE put the power in their hands, WE are responsible for everything they do. We are guilty through inaction; inaction is a choice too. By choosing to elect people who support the death penalty, by choosing not to rebel when the death penalty is used, we show our own support.
We did it, all of us.
Quote:

Quote:
If killing someone is a reprehensible and vile act...
Then why is it okay to kill someone?


Who says it's reprehensible by default?

Yo.
Quote:
I accidentally hit someone with my car? My bad, and I pay for it.

Bad example. That was a mistake, in which you had no intent to even hurt the person.
Quote:

I shoot a home invader in the "heat of the moment" to defend what is mine? Just doing my civil duty to protect myself.

"Civil duty?" No, you shot him because you felt he posed a threat to your life. There's no good or bad there; it's self defense. (Unless you're only doing it to defend your property, in which case, that's pretty reprehensible.)
Quote:
I gun down insurgents in the middle east? War hero.

Nothing more heroic than someone who, for the sake of patriotism, is willing to kill whoever the politicians tell him to.
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Considering the fact that I've never been a big Star Wars fan, and only watched the "prequels" for the interests of a buddy of mine (he wanted to see 3 together, so I had to watch the other 2, so I wouldn't be completely lost), let me just say something....

You're an idiot. Anikan was already on that path of darkness, long before that execution scene. Remember in Episode 2, when he went nuts and murdered a whole bunch of people "...even the women...and children, too."? Yeah. Dooku was well past the off-ramp to dark-side. Just another pit-stop, along the way.
Killing of Dooku was what pushed Annie over the tip.
Annie still had a semblence of morality left when he argued that killing Dooku unarmed wouldnt be honourable after getting over that moral conundrum, he had no issue with killing all those Jedi kids.

The Death Penalty is a barbaric practice which makes us ALL murderers.


Considering the fact that the death penalty is perfectly legal, if performed within legal parameters, then no...it doesn't make us murderers.

Also, how does the government killing people make us all murderers?


Where does the money for executions come from?
Taxes

Who pays taxes?
The public

Who are the public?
We are

Who pays the executions?
We do


Who decides where our tax money goes?
Not us. We just pay them, as per the law. We are guilty of no crime.

Quote:
If killing someone is a reprehensible and vile act...
Then why is it okay to kill someone?


Who says it's reprehensible by default? Certainly not the law, nor human nature. The only time it's considered legally reprehensible (in most places), is if it's unprovoked, or the product of misconduct or negligence. I accidentally hit someone with my car? My bad, and I pay for it. I stab the guy next door, because he won't keep his dog off my side of the driveway? That's bad.

I shoot a home invader in the "heat of the moment" to defend what is mine? Just doing my civil duty to protect myself. I gun down insurgents in the middle east? War hero.


Oh the law says its okay to kill?
Human nature justifies killing another person?

So if you were provoked its okay to kill someone then?
So how come the actions that happened at columbine were reprehensible?
Clearly the shooter was provoked by life long torment from his peers.
Provocation justifies killing, you said so yourself, youd even shoot a home invader.

I bet you must feel really proud of yourself killing all those insurgents without giving a second thought of their humanity, its so nice you've been conditioned to disregard human life to brag about killing other people.

And don't give me that hippy bullshit, my uncle was a war vet in nam, and killing VC killed him, he still lives with the nightmares of his friends dead and the guilt of killing other men who were doing what he was asked to do.

But yes, feel free to go around killing people.
If I werent a better man, I'd suggest the state excute you but hey I am a better man and I respect no matter how stupid you are, you're still a human being who deserves to live.
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Killing of Dooku was what pushed Annie over the tip.
Annie still had a semblence of morality left when he argued that killing Dooku unarmed wouldnt be honourable after getting over that moral conundrum, he had no issue with killing all those Jedi kids.

The Death Penalty is a barbaric practice which makes us ALL murderers.


Considering the fact that the death penalty is perfectly legal, if performed within legal parameters, then no...it doesn't make us murderers.

Also, how does the government killing people make us all murderers?


Where does the money for executions come from?
Taxes

Who pays taxes?
The public

Who are the public?
We are

Who pays the executions?
We do


Who decides where our tax money goes?
Not us. We just pay them, as per the law. We are guilty of no crime.

We could stop them. There's more of us than them.
When we elect leaders, we decide to turn over our decisions to them. Because WE put the power in their hands, WE are responsible for everything they do. We are guilty through inaction; inaction is a choice too. By choosing to elect people who support the death penalty, by choosing not to rebel when the death penalty is used, we show our own support.
We did it, all of us.
Quote:

Quote:
If killing someone is a reprehensible and vile act...
Then why is it okay to kill someone?


Who says it's reprehensible by default?

Yo.
Quote:
I accidentally hit someone with my car? My bad, and I pay for it.

Bad example. That was a mistake, in which you had no intent to even hurt the person.
Quote:

I shoot a home invader in the "heat of the moment" to defend what is mine? Just doing my civil duty to protect myself.

"Civil duty?" No, you shot him because you felt he posed a threat to your life. There's no good or bad there; it's self defense. (Unless you're only doing it to defend your property, in which case, that's pretty reprehensible.)
Quote:
I gun down insurgents in the middle east? War hero.

Nothing more heroic than someone who, for the sake of patriotism, is willing to kill whoever the politicians tell him to.


@Bold: Shouldnt use sarcasm on him, he wont catch it.
black_wing_angel's avatar

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Killing of Dooku was what pushed Annie over the tip.
Annie still had a semblence of morality left when he argued that killing Dooku unarmed wouldnt be honourable after getting over that moral conundrum, he had no issue with killing all those Jedi kids.

The Death Penalty is a barbaric practice which makes us ALL murderers.


Considering the fact that the death penalty is perfectly legal, if performed within legal parameters, then no...it doesn't make us murderers.

Also, how does the government killing people make us all murderers?


Where does the money for executions come from?
Taxes

Who pays taxes?
The public

Who are the public?
We are

Who pays the executions?
We do


Who decides where our tax money goes?
Not us. We just pay them, as per the law. We are guilty of no crime.

Quote:
If killing someone is a reprehensible and vile act...
Then why is it okay to kill someone?


Who says it's reprehensible by default? Certainly not the law, nor human nature. The only time it's considered legally reprehensible (in most places), is if it's unprovoked, or the product of misconduct or negligence. I accidentally hit someone with my car? My bad, and I pay for it. I stab the guy next door, because he won't keep his dog off my side of the driveway? That's bad.

I shoot a home invader in the "heat of the moment" to defend what is mine? Just doing my civil duty to protect myself. I gun down insurgents in the middle east? War hero.


Oh the law says its okay to kill?


In certain situations, yes.

Quote:
Human nature justifies killing another person?


In certain situations, yes.

Quote:
So if you were provoked its okay to kill someone then?


As long as the provocation was life threatening, yes.

If you pulled a knife or a gun on me, I'm well within my right (in most jurisdictions), to end your life, to protect my own.

Quote:
So how come the actions that happened at columbine were reprehensible?


Because they weren't under immediate threat to their lives. They were the provoking party, not the defensive party.

Quote:
Clearly the shooter was provoked by life long torment from his peers.


But not with the threat to their lives. And there were 2 shooters in Columbine. Get your facts straight, if you want to challenge me.

Quote:
Provocation justifies killing, you said so yourself, youd even shoot a home invader.


In certain situations, it does. You can't gun someone down, just because they pushed you. There has to be a clear cut threat to your life.

Quote:
I bet you must feel really proud of yourself killing all those insurgents without giving a second thought of their humanity,


I've never killed insurgents. But if I did...yeah. I'd feel pretty proud of myself for doing my country a service.

Quote:
its so nice you've been conditioned to disregard human life to brag about killing other people.


I haven't been "conditioned" to disregard humanity. YOU'VE been conditioned to view it as unconditionally valuable. You're the kind of person who would let a rapist rape you, and do nothing about it, just so you don't have to live with having harmed them. I'd kill the b*****d, without a second thought. That's called survival instinct. Highly prized characteristic of nature.

Quote:
And don't give me that hippy bullshit, my uncle was a war vet in nam, and killing VC killed him, he still lives with the nightmares of his friends dead and the guilt of killing other men who were doing what he was asked to do.


What a coincidence! MY uncle was also a 'Nam vet, who killed VCs. Didn't affect him, in the least, except gave him some stories to tell. Hell, he'd kill a VC, take their gun off their corpse, and sell it for profit, while he was there.

Your uncle just didn't have the mental gear for life or death combat.

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But yes, feel free to go around killing people.


If I have to, I will.

Quote:
If I werent a better man,


Which you're not, by any default.

Quote:
I'd suggest the state excute you


I've done nothing to warrant it. Unless you're trying to convict me of thought crimes. You can not convict for crimes not committed.

Quote:
but hey I am a better man


No you're not. You're an overly empathetic, emotional person with a moral high-ground complex.

Quote:
and I respect no matter how stupid you are,


Awww...need some Preparation H for your butthurt, little bunny boy?

Quote:
you're still a human being who deserves to live.


Yes. But only because I've done nothing to be revoked of that right to life. Many, many people do not share this fact.
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It is against Jedi ethic to kill an unarmed combatant. So, it depends on how much you value the Jedi ethic with regard to objective morality.
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Quote:
Quote:
Who decides where our tax money goes?

Not us. We just pay them, as per the law. We are guilty of no crime.

We could stop them. There's more of us than them.


Meh. Too much work, for no more reward than we get. Oooh, we don't have to fund the death of people that probably most of us would rather see dead, anyway. Hell, I'll do a tap dance on their grave to the music of Bing Crosby, given the chance.

Quote:
Quote:

Quote:
If killing someone is a reprehensible and vile act...
Then why is it okay to kill someone?


Who says it's reprehensible by default?

Yo.


And who are you? One person with no power. You have an opinion that nobody gives a s**t about.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I accidentally hit someone with my car? My bad, and I pay for it.

Bad example. That was a mistake, in which you had no intent to even hurt the person.


That's exactly the point I was making. That's an example of "negligent" homicide, which is still punishable, even without ill intention.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:

I shoot a home invader in the "heat of the moment" to defend what is mine? Just doing my civil duty to protect myself.


"Civil duty?" No, you shot him because you felt he posed a threat to your life. There's no good or bad there; it's self defense. (Unless you're only doing it to defend your property, in which case, that's pretty reprehensible.)


It's not just self-defense, it's the defense of my family, or anyone else I might have in my home. And my possessions, which are more valuable to me, than the life of a complete scumbag. Yes, some of my possessions can be replaced. But not all. Some have sentimental value that can not be replaced at any price, and are more than worth killing for.

And yes, I believe I have a civil duty to protect what is mine.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I gun down insurgents in the middle east? War hero.

Nothing more heroic than someone who, for the sake of patriotism, is willing to kill whoever the politicians tell him to.


They'll still call you a war hero, whether you agree with the cause, or not.

Point is, there are situations where ending human lives is not a criminal act, and to most of us, not viewed as a reprehensible act.
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black_wing_angel

Meh. Too much work, for no more reward than we get.

Uh huh. See, if fighting the death penalty is 'too much work,' then you support it. Your inaction allows it to exist.
Quote:

And who are you? One person with no power. You have an opinion that nobody gives a s**t about.

I am me. My power is that of my will, which is indomitable. I don't care if nobody shares my opinion; let's see them stand against me.
Incidentally, the death penalty is already abolished in my state, so apparently someone shares my beliefs.


Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I accidentally hit someone with my car? My bad, and I pay for it.

Bad example. That was a mistake, in which you had no intent to even hurt the person.


That's exactly the point I was making. That's an example of "negligent" homicide, which is still punishable, even without ill intention.

I'm not sure where you were going with this. Yes, negligence resulting in death should be punished, but certainly not via death penalty. What does this have to do with anything?

Quote:

It's not just self-defense, it's the defense of my family, or anyone else I might have in my home.

Semantics. I consider defense of other lives to be included in the "self defense" plea.
Quote:
And my possessions, which are more valuable to me, than the life of a complete scumbag.

And there ya lost me.
Quote:

And yes, I believe I have a civil duty to protect what is mine.

Yeah? You don't. Again, EVEN IF you genuinely feel your stuff is more valuable than a life, that's not duty, that's you protecting your stuff. It's self interest. At least be honest with yourself, duty never was a part of this.
Quote:

They'll still call you a war hero,

Debatable. Also, "they" are frequently wrong.
Quote:
Point is, there are situations where ending human lives is not a criminal act, and to most of us, not viewed as a reprehensible act.

Don't care. "Most of us" are wrong.
Besides, at the very least, I'm sure most people are willing to concede that, while killing through intentional action or negligence IS wrong, it can be argued that it was necessary for a greater good.
Young King under Heaven's avatar

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Killing Dooku is not what led Anakin down that path, so no

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