The Abortion Debate

[Seattleite]

Denzorz

WolfNinjaLevi

[
Look, if an idea is not perfect it should be shot down because some people will be ******** by it.

Which is exactly what your BS idea would do. So why the bloody hell suggest it in the first place?

Quote:

And it may not be right , but hey what is "right" anyhow?

Probably that which doesn't deny women healthcare for no valid reason. rolleyes

Hey, come on now, it's her fault for having fallopian tubes in the first place. >_<

[Denzorz]

Lindskitten

Denzorz

WolfNinjaLevi

[
Look, if an idea is not perfect it should be shot down because some people will be ******** by it.

Which is exactly what your BS idea would do. So why the bloody hell suggest it in the first place?

Quote:

And it may not be right , but hey what is "right" anyhow?

Probably that which doesn't deny women healthcare for no valid reason. rolleyes

Hey, come on now, it's her fault for having fallopian tubes in the first place. >_<

How dare she?! Whore. rolleyes

[Seattleite]

Denzorz

Lindskitten

Denzorz

WolfNinjaLevi

[
Look, if an idea is not perfect it should be shot down because some people will be ******** by it.

Which is exactly what your BS idea would do. So why the bloody hell suggest it in the first place?

Quote:

And it may not be right , but hey what is "right" anyhow?

Probably that which doesn't deny women healthcare for no valid reason. rolleyes

Hey, come on now, it's her fault for having fallopian tubes in the first place. >_<

How dare she?! Whore. rolleyes

Ugh, seriously, what is UP with women these days? The sheer audacity, I say.

[PhaedraMcSpiffy]

Found some evidence of pro-lifers that are anti-contraception. This site has some quotes:

Exposing the Real Motives of the Pro-Life Movement

Some highlights:

Quote:

"I would like to outlaw contraception…contraception is disgusting - people using each other for pleasure."
Joseph Scheidler Pro-Life Action League August 1985

(Emphasis original)

I've seen the rest of this quote. It's something like "They say I can't force my morality on others. I say just watch me"

Quote:

"Technical advances permit women to avoid conception for continuation of pregnancy. Women pay dearly for this non-freedom. First, they become slaves of their erotic sensuality, they are easily by the male of the species, they truely become sexual toys, and their de-naturalization now transforms them into nothing more than large semen containers." J.C. Espinosa "Birth Control, Why are they Lying to Women" 1980

Quote:

"A mother should have a child even if it is deformed, even if it was unplanned, even, if it is the product of rape and even if by having it leads to her death." Jaime Guzman, 1974, cited in Lagos

Quote:

"By outlawing contraception, you're closer to outlawing surgical abortion..."So if, as the pro-life community, you're trying to outlaw surgical abortion but the court has told us its legal basis is founded on the necessity of abortion, shouldn't the pro-life community begin to take a look at contraception?..We're trying to overturn Roe v. Wade, but the court is pointing us over here," Those who don't turn their attention to trying to outlaw contraception at this point... hurt the anti-abortion cause" Matt Sande, director of legislative affairs for Pro-Life Wisconsin.

Phyllis Schlafly's in a league of her own:

Quote:

"It's very healthy for a young girl to be deterred from promiscuity by fear of contracting a painful, incurable disease, or cervical cancer, or sterility, or the likelihood of giving birth to a dead, blind or brain-damaged baby."
Phyllis Schlafly, founder and leader of the Eagle Forum

Quote:

"Women have babies and men provide the support. If you don't like the way we're made you've got to take it up with God." Phyllis Schlafly

Quote:

“Sex education classes are like in-home sales parties for abortions” Phyllis Schlafly

Quote:

"We are totally opposed to abortion under any circumstances. We are also opposed to abortifacient drugs and chemicals like the pill and the IUD, and we are also opposed to all forms of birth control with the exception of natural family planning (the rhythm method)" Judie Brown, President American Life Lobby New York Times October 6, 1985

Quote:

"Birth control is evil and a sin. Birth Control is anti-Baby and anti-Child. Isn't that the purpose for birth control to stop the life of an innocent baby from being born. Why would you stop your own child from being conceived or born? What kind of human being are you?" http://www.armyofgod.com

All emphasis original.

There are way more than that, all of them frightening. Many are extremely misogynist and anti-HPV-vaccine.

[My Name is Nobody]

Denzorz

WolfNinjaLevi

[
Look, if an idea is not perfect it should be shot down because some people will be ******** by it.

Which is exactly what your BS idea would do. So why the bloody hell suggest it in the first place?

Quote:

And it may not be right , but hey what is "right" anyhow?

Probably that which doesn't deny women healthcare for no valid reason. rolleyes

Well, no one is going to decide what to do, weather to go way or the other. So why not just go in the middle. probably not with my idea, but with a better one. What do you think?

[RoseRose]

Heh... I remember posting that in the guild.

There's other places that have the same thing. Go through the source sites from Fundies Say the Darndest things, and you can find A LOT. Some of the quotes there are out of context... but, they do link back to sources, so you can read it for yourself. That's where I found that website.

[Denzorz]

WolfNinjaLevi

Denzorz

WolfNinjaLevi

[
Look, if an idea is not perfect it should be shot down because some people will be ******** by it.

Which is exactly what your BS idea would do. So why the bloody hell suggest it in the first place?

Quote:

And it may not be right , but hey what is "right" anyhow?

Probably that which doesn't deny women healthcare for no valid reason. rolleyes

Well, no one is going to decide what to do, weather to go way or the other. So why not just go in the middle. probably not with my idea, but with a better one. What do you think?

It's whether. Christ, it is not that hard to figure this out, people. One involves clouds and rain and wind and snow, the other is talking about possibilities. Jeebus.
[/rant]

What do you mean, 'go in the middle'? There really isn't a middle in this debate. Either you allow abortion, or you don't.

[linaloki]

Denzorz

WolfNinjaLevi

Denzorz

WolfNinjaLevi

[
Look, if an idea is not perfect it should be shot down because some people will be ******** by it.

Which is exactly what your BS idea would do. So why the bloody hell suggest it in the first place?

Quote:

And it may not be right , but hey what is "right" anyhow?

Probably that which doesn't deny women healthcare for no valid reason. rolleyes

Well, no one is going to decide what to do, weather to go way or the other. So why not just go in the middle. probably not with my idea, but with a better one. What do you think?

It's whether. Christ, it is not that hard to figure this out, people. One involves clouds and rain and wind and snow, the other is talking about possibilities. Jeebus.
[/rant]

What do you mean, 'go in the middle'? There really isn't a middle in this debate. Either you allow abortion, or you don't.

There's a middle.

It's Chuck Norris.

OH GAWD WHUDIDO?! I wanted to say Bob Barker, and Chuck came out of nowhere and typed himself in... crying

[Denzorz]

linaloki

There's a middle.

It's Chuck Norris.

OH GAWD WHUDIDO?! I wanted to say Bob Barker, and Chuck came out of nowhere and typed himself in... crying

No worries, you can't fight Chuck, loki. oO one blames you. *patpat*

[WitheringRoseOfDecay]

WolfNinjaLevi

After some thiking. I think abortion should be okay, but no health plan can cover it. cool

How's that for compmise?

i think that's bullshit insurance covers pregnancies, but not abortions? how unfair is that?

[My Name is Nobody]

Denzorz

WolfNinjaLevi

Denzorz

WolfNinjaLevi

[
Look, if an idea is not perfect it should be shot down because some people will be ******** by it.

Which is exactly what your BS idea would do. So why the bloody hell suggest it in the first place?

Quote:

And it may not be right , but hey what is "right" anyhow?

Probably that which doesn't deny women healthcare for no valid reason. rolleyes

Well, no one is going to decide what to do, weather to go way or the other. So why not just go in the middle. probably not with my idea, but with a better one. What do you think?

It's whether. Christ, it is not that hard to figure this out, people. One involves clouds and rain and wind and snow, the other is talking about possibilities. Jeebus.
[/rant]

What do you mean, 'go in the middle'? There really isn't a middle in this debate. Either you allow abortion, or you don't.

s**t, thank you I was wondering that. I drew a blank.

And that is what I'm talking about, No one going to come to the agreement yes or no. We have to comprise something

[Denzorz]

WolfNinjaLevi

Denzorz

WolfNinjaLevi

Denzorz

WolfNinjaLevi

[
Look, if an idea is not perfect it should be shot down because some people will be ******** by it.

Which is exactly what your BS idea would do. So why the bloody hell suggest it in the first place?

Quote:

And it may not be right , but hey what is "right" anyhow?

Probably that which doesn't deny women healthcare for no valid reason. rolleyes

Well, no one is going to decide what to do, weather to go way or the other. So why not just go in the middle. probably not with my idea, but with a better one. What do you think?

It's whether. Christ, it is not that hard to figure this out, people. One involves clouds and rain and wind and snow, the other is talking about possibilities. Jeebus.
[/rant]

What do you mean, 'go in the middle'? There really isn't a middle in this debate. Either you allow abortion, or you don't.

s**t, thank you I was wondering that. I drew a blank.

And that is what I'm talking about, No one going to come to the agreement yes or no. We have to comprise something

What compromise is there?

Either abortion remains legal, or it doesn't. Making compromises for rape (which would be impossible to prove in time for an abortion, and a rape fetus is no different than a consensual one) and health issues (leads to Bs about what a health issue is defined as, as all pregnancies are damaging in one way or another) is, frankly, ******** stupid.

It's also punishing women for havign sex. "oh, you weren't raped? Well then you're screwed, no abortion for you, slut."

And making it illegal for health plans ot cover it? One, that's interefering with business in a way I don't agree with, two, it's bullshit. There's no valid reason why abortion shouldn't be covered if the insurer wants ot do so.

[My Name is Nobody]

Denzorz

WolfNinjaLevi

Denzorz

WolfNinjaLevi

Denzorz

Which is exactly what your BS idea would do. So why the bloody hell suggest it in the first place?

Probably that which doesn't deny women healthcare for no valid reason. rolleyes

Well, no one is going to decide what to do, weather to go way or the other. So why not just go in the middle. probably not with my idea, but with a better one. What do you think?

It's whether. Christ, it is not that hard to figure this out, people. One involves clouds and rain and wind and snow, the other is talking about possibilities. Jeebus.
[/rant]

What do you mean, 'go in the middle'? There really isn't a middle in this debate. Either you allow abortion, or you don't.

s**t, thank you I was wondering that. I drew a blank.

And that is what I'm talking about, No one going to come to the agreement yes or no. We have to comprise something

What compromise is there?

Either abortion remains legal, or it doesn't. Making compromises for rape (which would be impossible to prove in time for an abortion, and a rape fetus is no different than a consensual one) and health issues (leads to Bs about what a health issue is defined as, as all pregnancies are damaging in one way or another) is, frankly, ******** stupid.

It's also punishing women for havign sex. "oh, you weren't raped? Well then you're screwed, no abortion for you, slut."

And making it illegal for health plans ot cover it? One, that's interefering with business in a way I don't agree with, two, it's bullshit. There's no valid reason why abortion shouldn't be covered if the insurer wants ot do so.

Wow, you really know your end of the arrgument. I am immpressed by that.

However I was just trying to throw a idea out there. That is all. You have a valid point. I'll do more thinking on this subject and come back. In other words "you win". This round anyway.

[Lady Miyo]

miyo_esparanza

kp is dcvi

miyo_esparanza

kp is dcvi

miyo_esparanza

I'm surprised noone's brought up the whole 'They thought that being gay was something that you could cure' argument.

Seriously, they thought that through therapy, drugs, operations, and any number of other terrible things, they could cure you being a homosexual. stare

How does anyone know that 'curing' a rapist isn't just the same idea?

So they are disorderly members of society we should just let walk around? Helpless because their rapist tendencies are "beyond our control"?

I'm sorry Miyo, but lumping together rapists and homosexual into a category of people with "innate" qualities is just bad. I hardly see a connection.

It was thought that homosexuals were disorderly members of society. They were screwing up the 'true' nature of things. Same as people that are trans-gendered, etc.

I wasn't in any way saying that they should just be let to 'walk around'. That's what jails are for. I was merely making the point that it may in fact, be impossible to truly 'cure' a rapist, depending on their motivations for raping.

Don't like me lumping together homosexuals and rapists? Fine. I chose ***** and rapists. Either way, it was once thought that you could 'cure' a ***** though any number of means. We're learning that there are loop-holes/the therapies just don't work. Same could be true for rapists.

Whether or not liking someone twenty years younger then you is entirely a bad thing is completely up for debate.

Doing things to lure them into a forced sexual situation thought? That's pretty low, as far as I am concerned.

So in that respect, I would say a rapist and a ***** have a lot more in common then not.

I fail to see what you response has to do with the original argument of being able to 'cure' a rapist, homosexual or ***** molester. Explain, please?

Also, I should have made the distinction between a child molester and a *****, and apologize to anyone that I may have offended. My point, however, still stands.

Still waiting for a response please, KP.

[Z3Ncat]

WitheringRoseOfDecay

WolfNinjaLevi

After some thiking. I think abortion should be okay, but no health plan can cover it. cool

How's that for compmise?

i think that's bullshit insurance covers pregnancies, but not abortions? how unfair is that?

I think it's bullshit that some insurances will cover IVF procedures that can cost tens of thousands of dollars before they're finally successful, male sterilization procedures (vasectomies), but not female sterilization procedures or even in some cases, IUDs.

Also, KP, for all the tangent everyone went off on in regards to 'curing' rapists (fun fact: sexual offenders have a recidivism rate of over 80%), you've ignored one crucial fact: it is legal to use deadly force against a rapist when they are raping you. Not when you think they might rape you, or even after the fact. In that time period when a woman is being violated, I highly doubt she's going to give a flying ******** about how she shouldn't use every ounce of force she has available to her because he might be 'cured' of his urge to rape.