The Abortion Debate

[Lady Miyo]

kp is dcvi

miyo_esparanza

kp is dcvi

miyo_esparanza

I'm surprised noone's brought up the whole 'They thought that being gay was something that you could cure' argument.

Seriously, they thought that through therapy, drugs, operations, and any number of other terrible things, they could cure you being a homosexual. stare

How does anyone know that 'curing' a rapist isn't just the same idea?

So they are disorderly members of society we should just let walk around? Helpless because their rapist tendencies are "beyond our control"?

I'm sorry Miyo, but lumping together rapists and homosexual into a category of people with "innate" qualities is just bad. I hardly see a connection.

It was thought that homosexuals were disorderly members of society. They were screwing up the 'true' nature of things. Same as people that are trans-gendered, etc.

I wasn't in any way saying that they should just be let to 'walk around'. That's what jails are for. I was merely making the point that it may in fact, be impossible to truly 'cure' a rapist, depending on their motivations for raping.

Don't like me lumping together homosexuals and rapists? Fine. I chose ***** and rapists. Either way, it was once thought that you could 'cure' a ***** though any number of means. We're learning that there are loop-holes/the therapies just don't work. Same could be true for rapists.

Whether or not liking someone twenty years younger then you is entirely a bad thing is completely up for debate.

Doing things to lure them into a forced sexual situation thought? That's pretty low, as far as I am concerned.

So in that respect, I would say a rapist and a ***** have a lot more in common then not.

I fail to see what you response has to do with the original argument of being able to 'cure' a rapist, homosexual or ***** molester. Explain, please?

Also, I should have made the distinction between a child molester and a *****, and apologize to anyone that I may have offended. My point, however, still stands.

[LadyInWhite]

kp is dcvi

LadyInWhite

kp is dcvi

And there is an argument to say why kill a man who can be cured of his aggressive affliction?

I'm curious.... how would you cure him of his aggressive affliction? Lock him up? Beat him with a stick? Rape him till he knows what it feels like? Therapy?

Well, what motivates a rapist has been a question of great importance for years.

I can tell you that according to some reading that I have done, THOUGHTS of rape are rather common amongst all men (the surveyed individuals). So to just frivolously say "Kill the rapist" is to undermine the reality of 1) What you're saying and 2) the sad fact that Rape may be the outcome of several internal and external factors.

I didn't ask for his motives. I don't care about his motives. Doing and thinking are two different things. Sure i think about strangeling other peoples children when they scream their pretty little heads off does that mean I go around strangeling other peoples children? No, I just avoid them like the plague. And when I can't avoid them I glare at the parent. But thats just me.

You said why kill someone who you can cure. I want to know what you suggest should be done to cure rapists. Or if you have a link to some research on this I'd be glad to read it.

[E-Z-MONEY]

Hi guys. I was wondering if any of you could help me with something. I am writing a research paper on abortion (If any of you remember yes it is the same one. I got it delayed becuas eI had a lot of other school to do.) and I was looking for a pro life site saying that the couple should have just worn a condom. I have heard it a lot here but most of the big pro-life sites I have seen are also anti-sex. So instead of promoting contraception they say that the risk of condoms failing is to high to have sex before marriage and so I can't find what I need. Can anyone help?

[DCVI]

LadyInWhite

kp is dcvi

LadyInWhite

kp is dcvi

And there is an argument to say why kill a man who can be cured of his aggressive affliction?

I'm curious.... how would you cure him of his aggressive affliction? Lock him up? Beat him with a stick? Rape him till he knows what it feels like? Therapy?

Well, what motivates a rapist has been a question of great importance for years.

I can tell you that according to some reading that I have done, THOUGHTS of rape are rather common amongst all men (the surveyed individuals). So to just frivolously say "Kill the rapist" is to undermine the reality of 1) What you're saying and 2) the sad fact that Rape may be the outcome of several internal and external factors.

I didn't ask for his motives. I don't care about his motives. Doing and thinking are two different things. Sure i think about strangeling other peoples children when they scream their pretty little heads off does that mean I go around strangeling other peoples children? No, I just avoid them like the plague. And when I can't avoid them I glare at the parent. But thats just me.

You said why kill someone who you can cure. I want to know what you suggest should be done to cure rapists. Or if you have a link to some research on this I'd be glad to read it.

Why are you asking my to hypothesize about a science to which I have no formal training in? Isn't that a waste of all our times?

But I do have some things to contribute as far as interesting tidbits:

"Culture is a factor in rape... Ethnographic data from pre-industrial societies show the existence of rape-free culture (Broude and Green, 1976; Sanday, 1976)"

"The U.S. is the most rape prone of all (modern socities)" (Henslin)

"Herman (1984) concludes that the United States is a rape culture because both genders are socialized to regard male aggression as a natural and normal part of sexual intercourse."

"In their study of 53 colleg emales, Malamuth, Haber... et al. found that fifty one percent indicated a likelhood that they, themselves, would rape if assured of not being punished."
All above from "Down to Earth Sociology", I can hand off the ISBN if you are interested, or to anyone.

My thoughts? I think culture has a large part to play. So with that said, and all that appears to be known, I think curing a rapist means reforming society. Giving women equality is one way. However, I think culture plays more into the life of the common individual then politics... i.e. the average male is more likely to be aware of the half-naked cheerleaders during the superbowl (I don't believe there were any) then be aware of Hilary Clinton's current campaign for president and progress.

[LadyInWhite]

kp is dcvi

Why are you asking my to hypothesize about a science to which I have no formal training in? Isn't that a waste of all our times?

I'm sorry, what you said implied to me that you had thought about how to cure rapists, which you do as evidenced in the last part of your post. That is what I wanted to know.

kp is dcvi

But I do have some things to contribute as far as interesting tidbits:

"Culture is a factor in rape... Ethnographic data from pre-industrial societies show the existence of rape-free culture (Broude and Green, 1976; Sanday, 1976)"

"The U.S. is the most rape prone of all (modern socities)" (Henslin)

"Herman (1984) concludes that the United States is a rape culture because both genders are socialized to regard male aggression as a natural and normal part of sexual intercourse."

"In their study of 53 colleg emales, Malamuth, Haber... et al. found that fifty one percent indicated a likelhood that they, themselves, would rape if assured of not being punished."
All above from "Down to Earth Sociology", I can hand off the ISBN if you are interested, or to anyone.

I was hoping for a website but i'll make do with those till i can find them and read them.

kp is dcvi

My thoughts? I think culture has a large part to play. So with that said, and all that appears to be known, I think curing a rapist means reforming society. Giving women equality is one way. However, I think culture plays more into the life of the common individual then politics... i.e. the average male is more likely to be aware of the half-naked cheerleaders during the superbowl (I don't believe there were any) then be aware of Hilary Clinton's current campaign for president and progress.

From experience I'd say that culture is something that's hard to change. And some cultures allow rape to occur without penalization. (I'm talking about child-brides and accepted husband dominence.)
I will agree in order to stop rape from happening we need to reform society. But I don't think that the shape the world is in now will make it work because in todays world male and female sexuality are repressed in the private lives and in the media it is over-done. There needs to be a balanced medium between media and private that neither demonises nor glorifies sexuality.

[Lady-of-Slaughter]

LadyInWhite

kp is dcvi

LadyInWhite

kp is dcvi

And there is an argument to say why kill a man who can be cured of his aggressive affliction?

I'm curious.... how would you cure him of his aggressive affliction? Lock him up? Beat him with a stick? Rape him till he knows what it feels like? Therapy?

Well, what motivates a rapist has been a question of great importance for years.

I can tell you that according to some reading that I have done, THOUGHTS of rape are rather common amongst all men (the surveyed individuals). So to just frivolously say "Kill the rapist" is to undermine the reality of 1) What you're saying and 2) the sad fact that Rape may be the outcome of several internal and external factors.

I didn't ask for his motives. I don't care about his motives. Doing and thinking are two different things. Sure i think about strangeling other peoples children when they scream their pretty little heads off does that mean I go around strangeling other peoples children? No, I just avoid them like the plague. And when I can't avoid them I glare at the parent. But thats just me.

You said why kill someone who you can cure. I want to know what you suggest should be done to cure rapists. Or if you have a link to some research on this I'd be glad to read it.

I must agree with LadyInWhite about the difference between thinking and doing. If I had acted on any number of the things I've thought, I would be in a shitload of trouble right now. However, when the distinction blurs, thought-crime becomes possible, and that is something we should leave alone. This opinion I can and do apply to certain things, such as *****, bestiality, etc. I don't care who you THINK about having intercourse with, but who you DO have intercourse with matters a lot. Do you see what I mean? Sorry if I'm kind of confusing, sometimes I have a little trouble getting my point across.

[PhaedraMcSpiffy]

E-Z-MONEY

Hi guys. I was wondering if any of you could help me with something. I am writing a research paper on abortion (If any of you remember yes it is the same one. I got it delayed becuas eI had a lot of other school to do.) and I was looking for a pro life site saying that the couple should have just worn a condom. I have heard it a lot here but most of the big pro-life sites I have seen are also anti-sex. So instead of promoting contraception they say that the risk of condoms failing is to high to have sex before marriage and so I can't find what I need. Can anyone help?

Concerned Women For America is an anti-abortion, anti-contraception group. Look them up and you're bound to find something.

Other than that, I know that many of the more radical pro-life leaders are anti-contraception, but I cannot recall a specific example.

[WitheringRoseOfDecay]

E-Z-MONEY

Hi guys. I was wondering if any of you could help me with something. I am writing a research paper on abortion (If any of you remember yes it is the same one. I got it delayed becuas eI had a lot of other school to do.) and I was looking for a pro life site saying that the couple should have just worn a condom. I have heard it a lot here but most of the big pro-life sites I have seen are also anti-sex. So instead of promoting contraception they say that the risk of condoms failing is to high to have sex before marriage and so I can't find what I need. Can anyone help?

sorry, but i don't go on pro-LIE sites, but i'll give you a list of some and you can see for yourself.

priestsforlife.com
prochoice.com(don't let the name fool you)
abortiontv.com
abort73.com

[My Name is Nobody]

After some thiking. I think abortion should be okay, but no health plan can cover it. cool

How's that for compmise?

[Denzorz]

WolfNinjaLevi

After some thiking. I think abortion should be okay, but no health plan can cover it. cool

How's that for compmise?

So you're saying a woman who has an eptopic pregnancy, or a pregnancy with any other ocndition that has a high likelihood of killing or crippling her, shouldn't be able to have her insurance cover something to save her life?

[My Name is Nobody]

Denzorz

WolfNinjaLevi

After some thiking. I think abortion should be okay, but no health plan can cover it. cool

How's that for compmise?

So you're saying a woman who has an eptopic pregnancy, or a pregnancy with any other ocndition that has a high likelihood of killing or crippling her, shouldn't be able to have her insurance cover something to save her life?

Yup. That sucks for those two, however, I'm just trying to put ideas out there.

[Denzorz]

WolfNinjaLevi

Denzorz

WolfNinjaLevi

After some thiking. I think abortion should be okay, but no health plan can cover it. cool

How's that for compmise?

So you're saying a woman who has an eptopic pregnancy, or a pregnancy with any other ocndition that has a high likelihood of killing or crippling her, shouldn't be able to have her insurance cover something to save her life?

Yup. That sucks for those two, however, I'm just trying to put ideas out there.

Sorry, but your idea needs some justification. How in the hell can you reconcile damning women to death who can't afford an abortion to save their lives? What are you punishing them for, having reproductive problems? Having sex?

[My Name is Nobody]

Denzorz

WolfNinjaLevi

Denzorz

WolfNinjaLevi

After some thiking. I think abortion should be okay, but no health plan can cover it. cool

How's that for compmise?

So you're saying a woman who has an eptopic pregnancy, or a pregnancy with any other ocndition that has a high likelihood of killing or crippling her, shouldn't be able to have her insurance cover something to save her life?

Yup. That sucks for those two, however, I'm just trying to put ideas out there.

Sorry, but your idea needs some justification. How in the hell can you reconcile damning women to death who can't afford an abortion to save their lives? What are you punishing them for, having reproductive problems? Having sex?

Look, if an idea is not perfect it should be shot down because some people will be ******** by it.
And it may not be right , but hey what is "right" anyhow?

[Seattleite]

WolfNinjaLevi

Denzorz

WolfNinjaLevi

Denzorz

WolfNinjaLevi

After some thiking. I think abortion should be okay, but no health plan can cover it. cool

How's that for compmise?

So you're saying a woman who has an eptopic pregnancy, or a pregnancy with any other ocndition that has a high likelihood of killing or crippling her, shouldn't be able to have her insurance cover something to save her life?

Yup. That sucks for those two, however, I'm just trying to put ideas out there.

Sorry, but your idea needs some justification. How in the hell can you reconcile damning women to death who can't afford an abortion to save their lives? What are you punishing them for, having reproductive problems? Having sex?

Look, if an idea is not perfect it should be shot down because some people will be ******** by it.
And it may not be right , but hey what is "right" anyhow?

Well Jesus, I would think denying a woman an operation to save her life would be considered "wrong," so the opposite of that should probably be right, no? How could you possibly deny a woman an operation to save her life simply because she's a woman and had the misfortune of having an ectopic pregnancy?

[Denzorz]

WolfNinjaLevi

[
Look, if an idea is not perfect it should be shot down because some people will be ******** by it.

Which is exactly what your BS idea would do. So why the bloody hell suggest it in the first place?

Quote:

And it may not be right , but hey what is "right" anyhow?

Probably that which doesn't deny women healthcare for no valid reason. rolleyes