The Abortion Debate

[Machine Kontrol]

Barely_evil

YuriNoHikari

Barely_evil

Lord Setar

She made one mention. However, you did not address her contraceptive failure, you just went on about how you could do it so she is somehow magically able to.

Hypothetical: I am a woman, I cannot support a child as I am going through university. I am on birth control due to a latex allergy. I also have tocophobia - fear of pregnancy. My birth control fails and I find myself two months pregnant. My exams are in roughly seven months. If I abort, am I evil and cruel? How?

Do note: I'm a guy and this is a hypothetical situation.

Yes well if I was using condoms, as I have stated earlier, and then I state that I got pregnant, what do you think happened. I was basically in the same postion.
To answer your second question, I was very scared when I was pregnant. I had anxiety that made me cry out of nowhere, I was a wreck. My husband had a hard time with me. Honestly I was very afraid of giving birth. I was so scared I considered my options. I couldn't bring myself out of it. I told my doctor and all she could do is give me anti depressants which I wouldn't take bacause I was afraid of hurting my baby. I put my child first no matter what. My doctor induced labor and she gave me the option of having a c-section. She said the baby's heartbeat was dropping with my contractions. Since I found out I was pregnant, I declared to my husband so many times to not let the doctors give me a c-section. When I found out my daughter's life was in danger, I let the doctor give me a c-section, even though I was very afraid that my life was in danger.

The hypothetical you is evil and cruel and not to mention selfish, she could support her child if she quits going to the university and gets a job. She could also get counselling for her fears.

That second to last statement almost sounds trollish.

Call me cruel, but I put education WAY above motherhood. And your anxiety over your pregnancy isn't anything like my outright terror of even the thought of pregnancy. I don't like the idea of pregnancy, motherhood, children, none of it. The two weeks I was pregnant, I ate nothing but oranges and drank sodas. Anything to get it out of me, even if it meant risking another organ to keep the rest of my body my own and no one else's domain. It makes me sick and people like you who want me to give up my own hopes and dreams for a mess of s**t I don't want make me lose faith in humanity.

I put life WAY before anything, especially the life of my child. And a child isn't a mess of s**t, you make me lose faith in humantiy, you know the fact that were supposed to be humane....

She doesn't have to care if she doesn't want to. Leave the emotional s**t out of this. She doesn't want kids, but she's still likely to have sex. And when things go wrong, she'll abort. And your emotions and morals should not dictate her decision.

So, er, pull the stick out of your a**, please.

[Machine Kontrol]

Lauraniea

sry to say this well not really but i hope all of you think abortion is ok .. when you die i hope you got to hell.

Gee, how loving and caring of you. ******** hypocrite.

[Z3Ncat]

Z3Ncat

Barely_evil

soul_less_human

I agree.
I also add that just because you can handle it mentally, people who get abortions may not be so lucky.
If you're not ready to be a mother?
If someone absolutely HATES children [like me and many women I know]?

Just because you love your kid you think everyone else is evil and cruel for getting rid of an unwanted pregnancy? Think: If a woman is willing to kill her to-be child, how will she go about haviong to deal with a child?

Then she should not get pregnant. She should have her tubes tied. And if she does get pregnant, she wont have to deal with the child that she will hate until it is born, so why not give it up for adoption?

Yeah, about that tubes tying... do you know anything about it? For example, how almost no doctor will agree to it unless the woman is at least 35 and has at least two children? I've been turned down by three doctors now, and I'm 23 and have never wanted, nor ever will want, to have children. Amazingly enough, while no one refuses to allow a 16-year-old to make the irrevocable and unchangeable life-altering choice of carrying to term and keeping the baby on the grounds that she's 'too young', apparently a woman ten years older than her, who, should her mind change six years down the line in regards to being a mother, has other options available to her, is 'too young' to make the decision to get her tubes tied.

Also, what if it isn't children that the woman hates. What if it's pregnancy itself, and forcing her to remain pregnant will cause her to harm herself and the fetus?

Barely_evil, you obviously missed this post I made. I bring it up again because you ignored a very important point YukiNoHikari made in her post - namely that she was willing to take the risk of doing herself serious harm in order to not be pregnant. She is not alone in this world in that respect.

[Lord Setar]

Barely_evil

YuriNoHikari

Barely_evil

Lord Setar

She made one mention. However, you did not address her contraceptive failure, you just went on about how you could do it so she is somehow magically able to.

Hypothetical: I am a woman, I cannot support a child as I am going through university. I am on birth control due to a latex allergy. I also have tocophobia - fear of pregnancy. My birth control fails and I find myself two months pregnant. My exams are in roughly seven months. If I abort, am I evil and cruel? How?

Do note: I'm a guy and this is a hypothetical situation.

Yes well if I was using condoms, as I have stated earlier, and then I state that I got pregnant, what do you think happened. I was basically in the same postion.
To answer your second question, I was very scared when I was pregnant. I had anxiety that made me cry out of nowhere, I was a wreck. My husband had a hard time with me. Honestly I was very afraid of giving birth. I was so scared I considered my options. I couldn't bring myself out of it. I told my doctor and all she could do is give me anti depressants which I wouldn't take bacause I was afraid of hurting my baby. I put my child first no matter what. My doctor induced labor and she gave me the option of having a c-section. She said the baby's heartbeat was dropping with my contractions. Since I found out I was pregnant, I declared to my husband so many times to not let the doctors give me a c-section. When I found out my daughter's life was in danger, I let the doctor give me a c-section, even though I was very afraid that my life was in danger.

The hypothetical you is evil and cruel and not to mention selfish, she could support her child if she quits going to the university and gets a job. She could also get counselling for her fears.

That second to last statement almost sounds trollish.

Call me cruel, but I put education WAY above motherhood. And your anxiety over your pregnancy isn't anything like my outright terror of even the thought of pregnancy. I don't like the idea of pregnancy, motherhood, children, none of it. The two weeks I was pregnant, I ate nothing but oranges and drank sodas. Anything to get it out of me, even if it meant risking another organ to keep the rest of my body my own and no one else's domain. It makes me sick and people like you who want me to give up my own hopes and dreams for a mess of s**t I don't want make me lose faith in humanity.

I put life WAY before anything, especially the life of my child. And a child isn't a mess of s**t, you make me lose faith in humantiy, you know the fact that were supposed to be humane....

How is forcing a woman to undergo a violation of her rights humane?

Lauraniea

sry to say this well not really but i hope all of you think abortion is ok .. when you die i hope you got to hell.

Can you please be less defensive and respond to the posts directed at you?

Hell? Do cite where the Bible specifically states that abortion is wrong. Furthermore, I'll be happy to see you there. Please read Matthew 7 over again.

[Raina Luxe]

YuriNoHikari

That last piece of your sentence didn't makes sense, please rephrase?

And anyways, I'm more concerned about the quality of life, not the quantity. There are enough children in the world to keep it spinning for quite some time. Why not focus on them instead popping out more?

And to me, if a child is going to ruin my life and destroy my chances of getting a higher education? That sounds like a mess to me.

You make me loose all faith in humanity; as a race we are supposed to be humane.

I do focus on other children beside my own. My husband has 4 kids that are from a previous marriage and I take care of them. Having a child will change your life, if you allow it to change it for the worse thatis your own fault

[YuriNoHikari]

Lord Setar

Barely_evil

Lord Setar

She made one mention. However, you did not address her contraceptive failure, you just went on about how you could do it so she is somehow magically able to.

Hypothetical: I am a woman, I cannot support a child as I am going through university. I am on birth control due to a latex allergy. I also have tocophobia - fear of pregnancy. My birth control fails and I find myself two months pregnant. My exams are in roughly seven months. If I abort, am I evil and cruel? How?

Do note: I'm a guy and this is a hypothetical situation.

Yes well if I was using condoms, as I have stated earlier, and then I state that I got pregnant, what do you think happened. I was basically in the same postion.
To answer your second question, I was very scared when I was pregnant. I had anxiety that made me cry out of nowhere, I was a wreck. My husband had a hard time with me. Honestly I was very afraid of giving birth. I was so scared I considered my options. I couldn't bring myself out of it. I told my doctor and all she could do is give me anti depressants which I wouldn't take bacause I was afraid of hurting my baby. I put my child first no matter what. My doctor induced labor and she gave me the option of having a c-section. She said the baby's heartbeat was dropping with my contractions. Since I found out I was pregnant, I declared to my husband so many times to not let the doctors give me a c-section. When I found out my daughter's life was in danger, I let the doctor give me a c-section, even though I was very afraid that my life was in danger.

The hypothetical you is evil and cruel and not to mention selfish, she could support her child if she quits going to the university and gets a job. She could also get counselling for her fears.

Why does selfish automatically equal bad? Do tell me how a would be adoptive family is not selfish for not adopting a child already in the system.

Counselling? For a phobia? You obviously don't know how severe these fears can be. Someone explained earlier that even the thought of pregnancy or being close to someone who is pregnant causes revulsion for them. Or is counselling some magical end-all?

How does your ability to do it equal everyone being able to do it? First off, what if I was studying abroad with a student visa, and thus could not legally get a job, not to mention if I were to drop out I would be deported? What if I couldn't find a job? What about my desires? If I were not tocophobic, what if I wanted to be able to give any child I had the best life I could, which would mean completing university? Not just a life, but a -good- life?

*waves* Hi Setar, I'm the person you're refering to. :3

I have gone to counselling for tocophobia, my own idea. Instead of getting any better, they deduced that my tocophobia is only going to get worse :3 And it has, where I used to just despise the thought, I'm now completely disgusted by pregnancy and pregnant women. It makes me cry a bit.

[Lord Setar]

Barely_evil

YuriNoHikari

That last piece of your sentence didn't makes sense, please rephrase?

And anyways, I'm more concerned about the quality of life, not the quantity. There are enough children in the world to keep it spinning for quite some time. Why not focus on them instead popping out more?

And to me, if a child is going to ruin my life and destroy my chances of getting a higher education? That sounds like a mess to me.

You make me loose all faith in humanity; as a race we are supposed to be humane.

I do focus on other children beside my own. My husband has 4 kids that are from a previous marriage and I take care of them. Having a child will change your life, if you allow it to change it for the worse thatis your own fault

How is it humane to force a woman to undergo a violation of her right to security of the person?

How is it your own fault if you can barely support yourself while going through university and you cannot find a job that would allow you to support yourself and a child/you cannot legally obtain a job because you are studying in another country with a student visa?

[Volturian Masquerade]

La Veuve Zin

Deadly Seduction

Most likely, I'd start off by getting drunk every night, starving myself and punching myself in the stomach repeatedly

So this wouldn't affect your ability to play sports at all?

I mean, colleges can put students on leave when they're ill, certainly when they're pregnant--but I don't think they'd understand you getting drunk and hurting yourself. Though you might end up on leave for being mentally ill.

Since you invited criticism, it's clear that you know your behaviour would be incredibly ******** stupid. The sad thing is you're trying to defend it anyway.

You see, I can play with a hangover, and I can eat the bare minimum that would still allow me the strength to continue on playing.

And no, I would lose my scholarship because I couldn't be cleared to play for a good 6 months whereas getting drunk every night? Pssshhh, I don't get hangovers, so it wouldn't be much of an issue other than the fact it's a lot harder to keep in shape due to the calories you consume in alcohol.

I was being sarcastic on the criticism knowing that people like you would just gape their months and tell me how stupid I am for my behavior. I'm just facing you with the reality of what many women would do in order to induce a miscarriage or get an abortion.

[Volturian Masquerade]

Talon-chan

I believe the point DS is trying to make is that if she wants an abortion she will do whatever it takes to acquire one, even if the end result is ultimately self-defeating (since she'd be kicked off of the sports team either way).

Correction, would be able to keep my scholarship due to the fact that as long as I can hide it from my coach, I'll be able to keep playing. My teammates would never rat me out.

[ottery]

Barely_evil

YuriNoHikari

That last piece of your sentence didn't makes sense, please rephrase?

And anyways, I'm more concerned about the quality of life, not the quantity. There are enough children in the world to keep it spinning for quite some time. Why not focus on them instead popping out more?

And to me, if a child is going to ruin my life and destroy my chances of getting a higher education? That sounds like a mess to me.

You make me loose all faith in humanity; as a race we are supposed to be humane.

Proof of this?

Quote:

I do focus on other children beside my own. My husband has 4 kids that are from a previous marriage and I take care of them.

Good for you.

Quote:

Having a child will change your life, if you allow it to change it for the worse that is your own fault

Yeah, sure. Tocophobia is my fault because it's uncurable!

I have no idea why you call yourself pro-life and damn the lives of millions of unwanted children to a corrupt system.

[YuriNoHikari]

Barely_evil

YuriNoHikari

That last piece of your sentence didn't makes sense, please rephrase?

And anyways, I'm more concerned about the quality of life, not the quantity. There are enough children in the world to keep it spinning for quite some time. Why not focus on them instead popping out more?

And to me, if a child is going to ruin my life and destroy my chances of getting a higher education? That sounds like a mess to me.

You make me loose all faith in humanity; as a race we are supposed to be humane.

I do focus on other children beside my own. My husband has 4 kids that are from a previous marriage and I take care of them. Having a child will change your life, if you allow it to change it for the worse thatis your own fault

Unfortunately, that's not how it goes.

I know children will change my life and whether it be for better or for worse, I'll happily not find out. Children from my own womb are not something I plan for or will ever want to plan for.

[Machine Kontrol]

Barely_evil

YuriNoHikari

That last piece of your sentence didn't makes sense, please rephrase?

And anyways, I'm more concerned about the quality of life, not the quantity. There are enough children in the world to keep it spinning for quite some time. Why not focus on them instead popping out more?

And to me, if a child is going to ruin my life and destroy my chances of getting a higher education? That sounds like a mess to me.

You make me loose all faith in humanity; as a race we are supposed to be humane.

I do focus on other children beside my own. My husband has 4 kids that are from a previous marriage and I take care of them. Having a child will change your life, if you allow it to change it for the worse thatis your own fault

How is forcing a woman to undergo a violation of her rights humane?

Yeah, you'll care about them up until they're outside the fetus, then they're worth s**t to you. Otherwise, you wouldn't force them to be born against the mother's will, thrown into adoption centers, etc.

[Miamae]

This is a painting i did 2 years ago. it's based off of a painting from the rennaisance. The babies on your left represent those that have been killed at the hands of abortion clinics (the abortion clinics are represented by the female doctor at the center). While swords aren't used to abort babies, ithe sword in this painting symbolically stands for death, destruction and blood shed. The doctor has slashed the lives of those children (see painted on rips) and is now turned to kill yet more still. The doctor is staring into the eyes of it's first new victom, a small girl who stares innocently back (maybe even for a kiss). the babies featured on the right all appear happy, but Death is hellbound on coming to annihilate their future lives. The laughing giggling babies soon will be just as hurt and torn as those on the left. Perhaps only the mother holding her child will say no the the doctor and forbid the murder of her own child.

[CGurp]

Barely_evil

Yes well if I was using condoms, as I have stated earlier, and then I state that I got pregnant, what do you think happened. I was basically in the same postion.
To answer your second question, I was very scared when I was pregnant. I had anxiety that made me cry out of nowhere, I was a wreck. My husband had a hard time with me. Honestly I was very afraid of giving birth. I was so scared I considered my options. I couldn't bring myself out of it. I told my doctor and all she could do is give me anti depressants which I wouldn't take bacause I was afraid of hurting my baby. I put my child first no matter what. My doctor induced labor and she gave me the option of having a c-section. She said the baby's heartbeat was dropping with my contractions. Since I found out I was pregnant, I declared to my husband so many times to not let the doctors give me a c-section. When I found out my daughter's life was in danger, I let the doctor give me a c-section, even though I was very afraid that my life was in danger.

The hypothetical you is evil and cruel and not to mention selfish, she could support her child if she quits going to the university and gets a job. She could also get counselling for her fears.

A fetus is not a child and not everyone values fetal lives. A fetus is unconscious, lacks emotion, lacks mental capability, lacks a personality, and is not a person. It has no more value to me than an ant or a chicken. I find it more evil and cruel to expect someone to neglect their education as well as give up their future, get a job which is likely going to be a crappy minimum wage job and not something you can really support a healthy child with, expect a woman with such a fear to go through it, and think a non-person overrides a person's life.

[ottery]

miamae

*insert propaganda ridden picture here*

This is a painting i did 2 years ago. it's based off of a painting from the rennaisance. The babies on your left represent those that have been killed at the hands of abortion clinics (the abortion clinics are represented by the female doctor at the center). While swords aren't used to abort babies, ithe sword in this painting symbolically stands for death, destruction and blood shed. The doctor has slashed the lives of those children (see painted on rips) and is now turned to kill yet more still. The doctor is staring into the eyes of it's first new victom, a small girl who stares innocently back (maybe even for a kiss). the babies featured on the right all appear happy, but Death is hellbound on coming to annihilate their future lives. The laughing giggling babies soon will be just as hurt and torn as those on the left. Perhaps only the mother holding her child will say no the the doctor and forbid the murder of her own child.

Ah, if only you used real fetii in the picure, in stead of babies. Get your emotional ploys out of this debate.