The Abortion Debate

[Articlion]

Moniquill

Articlion

And to say it isnt human, just because of a 2 second time frame, well thats just BS.

Please point out where anyone in this thread has made such an assertion.
At no point is any product of pregnancy nonhuman. What we are arguing is the philosophical concept of personhood.

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/

Right there it is honey. Read it and weep. Does this change your view?

[Gris]

Articlion

If you dont want children, dont have sex and put others lives at risk. The moment you open your legs, you know what risks your taking, and what can come of it. YOur being careless and irresponsible. However, you are responsible for the death of that child you abort. You say "living in your womb against your wil"l? Well you decided to have sex right? So techiniqually, you put it there. You just don't get pregnant randomly. Only one person has ever done that. And I more then positive a smut like you isn't going to chosen on such an occasion. If you arent SANE enough to raise a child, then you shouldnt have sex.

And if you want sex that bad, and not the child that can come out of it, get your tubes tied. Or stop being cheap and get a working contreceptive. Because I more then positive, it cost money to get an abortion, weather it be yours, or the taxes and medical insurance. Which more or less makes you a mooch. Just like that baby thats "Leaching" off of you. Well your leaching off of America, your a dirty hypocrite.

...Are you talking to anyone in particular, or is that for all (American) women who might abort? I'm honestly not certain.

[My credit card number is]

Articlion

If you dont want children, dont have sex and put others lives at risk. The moment you open your legs, you know what risks your taking, and what can come of it. YOur being careless and irresponsible. However, you are responsible for the death of that child you abort. You say "living in your womb against your wil"l? Well you decided to have sex right? So techiniqually, you put it there. You just don't get pregnant randomly. Only one person has ever done that. And I more then positive a smut like you isn't going to chosen on such an occasion. If you arent SANE enough to raise a child, then you shouldnt have sex.

And if you want sex that bad, and not the child that can come out of it, get your tubes tied. Or stop being cheap and get a working contreceptive. Because I more then positive, it cost money to get an abortion, weather it be yours, or the taxes and medical insurance. Which more or less makes you a mooch. Just like that baby thats "Leaching" off of you. Well your leaching off of America, your a dirty hypocrite.

Not all people who have sex are irresponsible. Not all people who have sex are promiscuous. And, believe it or not, not all people who have sex are unmarried (as if that made a difference). That said, why should a married couple be willing to have a child if they are willing to have sex?

[Articlion]

Gris

Articlion

If you dont want children, dont have sex and put others lives at risk. The moment you open your legs, you know what risks your taking, and what can come of it. YOur being careless and irresponsible. However, you are responsible for the death of that child you abort. You say "living in your womb against your wil"l? Well you decided to have sex right? So techiniqually, you put it there. You just don't get pregnant randomly. Only one person has ever done that. And I more then positive a smut like you isn't going to chosen on such an occasion. If you arent SANE enough to raise a child, then you shouldnt have sex.

And if you want sex that bad, and not the child that can come out of it, get your tubes tied. Or stop being cheap and get a working contreceptive. Because I more then positive, it cost money to get an abortion, weather it be yours, or the taxes and medical insurance. Which more or less makes you a mooch. Just like that baby thats "Leaching" off of you. Well your leaching off of America, your a dirty hypocrite.

...Are you talking to anyone in particular, or is that for all (American) women who might abort? I'm honestly not certain.

One of the girls that had responded, but it can still apply to many.

[rweghrheh]

Gris

sachiko_sohma

That doesn't give you the right for partial abortion, that is illegal or should be. You want to abort then I won't stop you but you have up to a certian point until you can't unless there is a serious medical emergnacy. It's not better to abort if your that far along.

As it's illegal, I'm aware I don't have the right to an elective abortion at that stage. But I still support the idea, for any woman.


Here's my own case, if you're interested: I am childfree, and not only do I know I would not be a good parent, but I have no desire to be one, to add to the human population at all, or to give a child to the adoption system or someone else to raise in my stead.

The idea of being pregnant disturbs me.

I am asexual. The idea of having *sex* disturbs me, and if I were to become pregnant there's a fair chance it would have been due to rape. Add those traumas to everything else up there.

Almost *everything* in me would be telling me to abort, and even if I couldn't trust my emotions I am overall a logical person. My reason would win out over compassion for the unborn child - yes, and at that point I could consider it a child.

I don't claim that what I would do would be fair, but it would still be the best choice I think I could make.

To kill it at that point is the best choice? I think not.

[Nethilia]

DarkFire168

You're an idiot. That's not how abortions work, if you can't actually do research on a subject, then stfu.

DarkFire, don't make ad hominem attacks. I know you can make your point without insulting people.

[Articlion]

Benighted

Articlion

If you dont want children, dont have sex and put others lives at risk. The moment you open your legs, you know what risks your taking, and what can come of it. YOur being careless and irresponsible. However, you are responsible for the death of that child you abort. You say "living in your womb against your wil"l? Well you decided to have sex right? So techiniqually, you put it there. You just don't get pregnant randomly. Only one person has ever done that. And I more then positive a smut like you isn't going to chosen on such an occasion. If you arent SANE enough to raise a child, then you shouldnt have sex.

And if you want sex that bad, and not the child that can come out of it, get your tubes tied. Or stop being cheap and get a working contreceptive. Because I more then positive, it cost money to get an abortion, weather it be yours, or the taxes and medical insurance. Which more or less makes you a mooch. Just like that baby thats "Leaching" off of you. Well your leaching off of America, your a dirty hypocrite.

Not all people who have sex are irresponsible. Not all people who have sex are promiscuous. And, believe it or not, not all people who have sex are unmarried. That said, why should a married couple be willing to have a child if they are willing to have sex?

Because there are contraceptives that will do the work for you. So you dont have to murder a child, instead, the sperm will never meet the egg, thus making a complete set of DNA which will eventually become an Adult granted life is in its favor. (please dont manipulate this, because we all know death can happen to anyone. No what ifs)

[rweghrheh]

Articlion

Benighted

Articlion

If you dont want children, dont have sex and put others lives at risk. The moment you open your legs, you know what risks your taking, and what can come of it. YOur being careless and irresponsible. However, you are responsible for the death of that child you abort. You say "living in your womb against your wil"l? Well you decided to have sex right? So techiniqually, you put it there. You just don't get pregnant randomly. Only one person has ever done that. And I more then positive a smut like you isn't going to chosen on such an occasion. If you arent SANE enough to raise a child, then you shouldnt have sex.

And if you want sex that bad, and not the child that can come out of it, get your tubes tied. Or stop being cheap and get a working contreceptive. Because I more then positive, it cost money to get an abortion, weather it be yours, or the taxes and medical insurance. Which more or less makes you a mooch. Just like that baby thats "Leaching" off of you. Well your leaching off of America, your a dirty hypocrite.

Not all people who have sex are irresponsible. Not all people who have sex are promiscuous. And, believe it or not, not all people who have sex are unmarried. That said, why should a married couple be willing to have a child if they are willing to have sex?

Because there are contraceptives that will do the work for you. So you dont have to murder a child, instead, the sperm will never meet the egg, thus making a complete set of DNA which will eventually become an Adult granted life is in its favor. (please dont manipulate this, because we all know death can happen to anyone. No what ifs)

There is also the morning after pill they can take if their so worried about anything failing or the condom braking.

[Articlion]

Mistress DragonFlame

Articlion

A Human is a Human is a Human. Sperm cells and egg cells are incomplete humans, they are pieces of humans. However, as soon as those two meet. That is a human. That is a complete developing human.

No, it is not a complete human yet. It has yet to form jack s**t, and until it completely forms everything nessassary for a complete human (nervious system, organs, funtional brain), it is not a complete human.

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Therefor, destroying that life will be murder, non the less.

Look up the definition of murder and try again.

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It should be considered a child.

Why?

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It is a growing child, not yet matured.

Wrong. It IS growing, but it's not maturing; it's forming.

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To abort it at that stage, would be like shooting a 17 year old, because its okay to, he isnt fully mature.

Again, forming. Not maturing.

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Therefor it should not be acceptable to abort a child, in almost all circumstances.

What stage are you referring to? Because, if you kill a newborn, it's not abortion anymore, it's infancide, and if you strangle a 3 year old, it's murder play out.

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If it threatens the life of the mother, I would say yes, because that is putting her life at risk.

OK. Her life =/= fetus's. So, how is is possible for the fetus to be able to put its non-existant rights over hers if her life is of more value?

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And one shouldnt gamble with lives of others.

Gambling is what my mother does on the weekends. Abortion is not gambling.

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People say some pretty dumb inhumane things when it comes to abortion, and I have to ask myself, where is your heart at?

Above my left toe; I put it there for safe keeping. whee

Okay with that being said, is it okay to abort a child at 8 months? They have all the right equipment to live. But still they chop them up into pieces. IT HAS A NERVOUS SYSTEM at thie point and feels the pain. So even then, if you didnt agree with fetus, your now still killing a HUMAN that you had just described to me what you would consider a person is.

[Gris]

sachiko_sohma

To kill it at that point is the best choice? I think not.

Think what you like. I live my life according to the dictates of my conscience, not yours.

[Articlion]

sachiko_sohma

Articlion

Benighted

Articlion

If you dont want children, dont have sex and put others lives at risk. The moment you open your legs, you know what risks your taking, and what can come of it. YOur being careless and irresponsible. However, you are responsible for the death of that child you abort. You say "living in your womb against your wil"l? Well you decided to have sex right? So techiniqually, you put it there. You just don't get pregnant randomly. Only one person has ever done that. And I more then positive a smut like you isn't going to chosen on such an occasion. If you arent SANE enough to raise a child, then you shouldnt have sex.

And if you want sex that bad, and not the child that can come out of it, get your tubes tied. Or stop being cheap and get a working contreceptive. Because I more then positive, it cost money to get an abortion, weather it be yours, or the taxes and medical insurance. Which more or less makes you a mooch. Just like that baby thats "Leaching" off of you. Well your leaching off of America, your a dirty hypocrite.

Not all people who have sex are irresponsible. Not all people who have sex are promiscuous. And, believe it or not, not all people who have sex are unmarried. That said, why should a married couple be willing to have a child if they are willing to have sex?

Because there are contraceptives that will do the work for you. So you dont have to murder a child, instead, the sperm will never meet the egg, thus making a complete set of DNA which will eventually become an Adult granted life is in its favor. (please dont manipulate this, because we all know death can happen to anyone. No what ifs)

There is also the morning after pill they can take if their so worried about anything failing or the condom braking.

Thats a lot more costly and makes you feel horrible. So fine, you want to take the mourning after pill everytime you have sex. I surely dont promote it. Because if there is a connection between sperm and egg, not only do you feel like junk. You are still a murder, that feels like junk. Why cant people just do the responsible thing and get contraceptives. Like the cervix wall?

[My credit card number is]

Articlion

Benighted

Not all people who have sex are irresponsible. Not all people who have sex are promiscuous. And, believe it or not, not all people who have sex are unmarried. That said, why should a married couple be willing to have a child if they are willing to have sex?

Because there are contraceptives that will do the work for you. So you dont have to murder a child, instead, the sperm will never meet the egg, thus making a complete set of DNA which will eventually become an Adult granted life is in its favor. (please dont manipulate this, because we all know death can happen to anyone. No what ifs)

You are assuming that contraceptives will always be used properly and never fail to work as intended. They can, do, and will fail occasionally. If the woman happens to be ovulating then she very well could be fertilized. Is that the fault of the "parents"? Is it anyone's fault?

[Mistress DragonFlame]

Articlion

If you dont want children, dont have sex and put others lives at risk.

I'm not going to become asexual because of something you say. I'm bisexual, thank you very much.

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The moment you open your legs, you know what risks your taking, and what can come of it.

Oh, so the guy is not at ANY fault now?

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YOur being careless and irresponsible.

No, I'm having sex. I'm not being careless. Sex =/= carelessness/irrisponsibility.

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However, you are responsible for the death of that child you abort.

And?

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You say "living in your womb against your wil"l? Well you decided to have sex right? So techiniqually, you put it there.

Tecnially, I put an egg there and it was inseminated by a guy, and then attached itself there. I did NOT put a comlpete fetus there.

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You just don't get pregnant randomly.

The Virgin Mary says other wise.

...Sorry, had to be done. xD

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Only one person has ever done that.

Hey, cool, I guess right!

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And I more then positive a smut like you isn't going to chosen on such an occasion. If you arent SANE enough to raise a child, then you shouldnt have sex.

If I was insane, then I wouldn't give two shits about responcibility, right? I don't know the actions I am taking. ninja I am insane, you cannot hold it against me.

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And if you want sex that bad, and not the child that can come out of it, get your tubes tied.

Point out a docter willing to do it on a 17 year old, and I'll sign right up... along with a suprisingly LARGE portion of people, too.

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Or stop being cheap and get a working contreceptive.

I'm living proof that even the best birthcontrol fails some of the times.

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Because I more then positive, it cost money to get an abortion, weather it be yours, or the taxes and medical insurance.

It also costs a s**t load more to have the child. Guess what? By the same damn things you listed.

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Which more or less makes you a mooch.

Who says that? What if I had a 30,000 dollar deposit in a bank, and I just used that?

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Just like that baby thats "Leaching" off of you. Well your leaching off of America, your a dirty hypocrite.

No. America can tell me to piss off, and (guess what?) I can 'piss off' and go somewhere else. I will not die because of it, because I am a completely self-sustaining enitity.

[DarkFire168]

Articlion

If you dont want children, dont have sex and put others lives at risk.

Oh, so you're not pro-life, you're one of those pro-punishment, pro-slavery, anti-sex, anti-woman bastards. All right. I'll make this nice and big so it can get through your thick a** skull:

WHY IN THE HELL SHOULD MY GIRLFRIEND AND I REMAIN CELEBATE TO SATISFY YOUR ARCHAIC MORALS?

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The moment you open your legs, you know what risks your taking, and what can come of it.

Oh, so knowledge of a risk is acceptance of said risks? Ok, then if you get in a car accident, don't call 911, you knew the risks of getting in the car afterall, why should you get medical treatment for it? Oh and if you get food poisoning, you knew the risks when you ate so don't get your stomach pumped. And if you're breathing? Yeah, don't use up the precious anthrax antivirus because you knew the risks of breathing and the possibilities of anthrax being poured throughout a building. Because in your ******** up little world, knowledge = culpability.

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YOur being careless and irresponsible.

Bullshit. Responsibility is not defined as me doing what you want to satisfy your morals and make you happy. And what about the women who use protection and it fails them?

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However, you are responsible for the death of that child you abort.

And so are you, because in your universe knowledge = culpability so since you know that fetii are being aborted it's your fault too.

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You say "living in your womb against your wil"l?

Rape would be the more accurate word in my opinion.

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Well you decided to have sex right?

Some of us? Yep. So why should you punish a person with 9 months of physical and mental torture?

For others? Nope. It's called rape.

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So techiniqually, you put it there.

Poor assumption on your part. No woman "puts it there". It kinda happens without their knowledge or choice. Conception isn't something that you can push a button and make happen.

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You just don't get pregnant randomly.

Yep, ya do.

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Only one person has ever done that.

What, so you believe some old fable some cult likes to toss around? So what? Your cult does not get to tell me or my girlfriend what to do with our bodies.

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And I more then positive a smut like you isn't going to chosen on such an occasion.

Chosen for what? To have God rape her? Or do you mean is going to choose to lie and claim it's a virgin birth? Because anyone with half a brain knows that Mary was raped by a Roman soldier and that's where Jeebus done come from.

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If you arent SANE enough to raise a child, then you shouldnt have sex.

Why?

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And if you want sex that bad, and not the child that can come out of it, get your tubes tied

.

Except most doctors WON'T TIE YOUR TUBES UNTIL YOU'RE ABOUT 35 AND HAVE MULTIPLE KIDS. Besides, tubal litigation can come undone.

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Or stop being cheap and get a working contreceptive.

NO CONTRACEPTIVE IS 100% EFFECTIVE.

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Because I more then positive, it cost money to get an abortion, weather it be yours, or the taxes and medical insurance.

1) No taxpayer pays for an abortion, only the WOMAN does.

2) And it's her insurance, so she's paying for it anyway, GO FIGURE! eek

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Which more or less makes you a mooch.

Only it doesn't because you're wrong.

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Just like that baby thats "Leaching" off of you.

Actually, completely different even IF your point had stood, which it hadn't.

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Well your leaching off of America, your a dirty hypocrite.

You're really the only leach I see in here you filthy hypocrite. Read up on your facts before you open your mouth dumbass.

[rweghrheh]

Gris

sachiko_sohma

To kill it at that point is the best choice? I think not.

Think what you like. I live my life according to the dictates of my conscience, not yours.

You don't have one if you kill at that point.