The Abortion Debate

[Nethilia]

orlandolyn

First, I'm pro-choice.
Second, I can't understand how someone against abortion can call themselves pro-life when the fact remains that by illegalizing abortions more women will die.

Which is why I am not hesitant to call them pro-fetus. Many so-called "pro-lifers" appear to only care about life from conception to birth.

[Moniquill]

[My credit card number is]

Resident Lune

Mistress DragonFlame

Besides, if I was in that circum stance, I would wish to be aborted rather then forcing my mother to birth me, then leave me in a Racist Baby Store.

First, it's circumstance.

Second, as someone who was put in one of those "Racist Baby Stores" as you eloquently put it, I am offended by your perception that children who are not aborted would be better off dead anyway, when compared to being put up for adoption. Considering the fact that I, myself, am adopted.

I don't think you fully comprehend just how efficient adoption is. It's true, it has its faults, just like many other things. Children are passed up for the most illogical reasons; racism being one of them. But that does not mean that babies would be better off dead than in adoption agencies if they've already reached a point in the stage of pregnancy that they can survive out of the womb.

Edit: And before any assumptions are made by anyone? My position on abortion is moot. My focus is solely on this person's position on adoption, and nothing more. I'd rather not touch the abortion part of this issue with a ten-foot pole, and thus this will be my only post in this thread.

The problem with the adoption debate is that pro-lifers would rather put any to-be child up for adoption than have it aborted -- most fetuses haven't all reached a stage in pregnancy when they can survive free of the womb.

(Note: I am not assuming you to be a pro-lifer.)

[DarkFire168]

[Moniquill]

[Gris]

DarkFire168

Moniquill

For the record, I've never met anyone who supports abortion at a point where the fetus can survive outside of the womb. That's what elective cesarians are for.

Gris supports abortions up to the moment before it pops it's head out of the v****a.

Unhappily true. I would much rather not see it happen, and I'd rather not support it, but it is an extreme of my logic I've not yet been able to beat.

[rweghrheh]

[Talon-chan]

Gris

DarkFire168

Moniquill

For the record, I've never met anyone who supports abortion at a point where the fetus can survive outside of the womb. That's what elective cesarians are for.

Gris supports abortions up to the moment before it pops it's head out of the v****a.

Unhappily true. I would much rather not see it happen, and I'd rather not support it, but it is an extreme of my logic I've not yet been able to beat.

Why abort? Why not just deliver the fetus? I mean if it is two days away from birth... why not induce birth? or perform a C-section? I mean, in order to abort it that late into the pregnancy they're pretty much going to have to induce birth anyway.

[Moniquill]

Gris

DarkFire168

Moniquill

For the record, I've never met anyone who supports abortion at a point where the fetus can survive outside of the womb. That's what elective cesarians are for.

Gris supports abortions up to the moment before it pops it's head out of the v****a.

Unhappily true. I would much rather not see it happen, and I'd rather not support it, but it is an extreme of my logic I've not yet been able to beat.

See, as rampantly choice as I am, I don't support post-viable abortion. Mind you, if the fetus is for any reason not wholly viable - and by viable I mean expected to thrive - then go right ahead. But I figure if you've waited until the thing could arguably survive WITHOUT tons of medical intervention you might as well just c-section it out or induce labor if you want to end your pregnancy. Once it can qualify as a seperate organism I tend to class it as infanticide rather than abortion. Not that there aren't situationally defensible stances for infanticide, mind you.

[Gris]

Talon-chan

Gris

Unhappily true. I would much rather not see it happen, and I'd rather not support it, but it is an extreme of my logic I've not yet been able to beat.

Why abort? Why not just deliver the fetus? I mean if it is two days away from birth... why not induce birth? or perform a C-section? I mean, in order to abort it that late into the pregnancy they're pretty much going to have to induce birth anyway.

I support people making these choices for themselves, and a born woman does take precedence over an unborn fetus even at that late a date.

Personally, I would want the option. If I were pregnant, I'd terminate as soon as possible after I found out under normal circumstances. But in the (unlikely, admittedly) case that they were *not* normal circumstances...? I'd rather abort even after viability than reproduce.

[Talon-chan]

I'm about to go to bed... it's nearly two thirty here in the Eastern Time zone... if anyone is interested in writing a bit on father's rights, or perhaps the whole "face the consequences of choosing sex" arguments I'd greatly appreciate it. Feel free to either PM it to me, or just post it here u.u;;

[DarkFire168]

[Nethilia]

Moniquill

For the record, I've never met anyone who supports abortion at a point where the fetus can survive outside of the womb. That's what elective cesarians are for.

I have since become pro-choice up to 50% viability for known pregnancies and up to 80-90% viability for unknown pregnancies.. Don't get me wrong. If a woman just thinks that she's tired of this and wants to quit via abortion, she's probably out of her mind and needs some counseling because...yeah, that's pretty screwed to know and carry that long, and I doubt any woman would do that. If a woman didn't know about the pregnancy and finds out extremely late, they should not be forced to handle it with birth or caesarian. Caesarians are extremely taxing on the body since they are major surgery (so is a D&X).

[Gris]

Moniquill

See, as rampantly choice as I am, I don't support post-viable abortion. Mind you, if the fetus is for any reason not wholly viable - and by viable I mean expected to thrive - then go right ahead. But I figure if you've waited until the thing could arguably survive WITHOUT tons of medical intervention you might as well just c-section it out or induce labor if you want to end your pregnancy. Once it can qualify as a seperate organism I tend to class it as infanticide rather than abortion. Not that there aren't situationally defensible stances for infanticide, mind you.

It's not something I'd be able to decide easily for myself - or rather, the *logical* decision would be simple, but steeling myself to carry through with what I can also see as infanticide would be much more difficult.

I'm curious. What stances are those? Or is that OT?

[Moniquill]

sachiko_sohma

By then they might as well give birth if their that far along, they can feel pain at that time. Partal abortions, they can feel pain and have a higher chance of the abortion failing.

Ther's no such thing as a partial abortion, unless you're talking about reduction of multiple fetuses.

The D/X procedure is sometimes labeled incorrectly as 'partial-birth abortion' by certain members of the pro-life movement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intact_dilation_and_extraction


What contitutes a failed abortion by your definition?