The Abortion Debate

[paper_phoenix]

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

Does anyone else notice how the lifers in here recently have been predominantly men? confused I can't help but wonder if it's the lack of understanding of pregnancy that's fueling their opinions.

My opinions are fueled by my fathers cancer and him dieing from it. He was only in his mid 40's. I saw how life ended so early. I did research, and I came to the conclusion from the legality, biologicial, terminological, and the consititutional information that abortions are unconsititutional.

I fail to see the link between your father dying of cancer in his forties and why that means that abortion should be illegal.

[Nethilia]

caela_rue

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

Does anyone else notice how the lifers in here recently have been predominantly men? confused I can't help but wonder if it's the lack of understanding of pregnancy that's fueling their opinions.

My opinions are fueled by my fathers cancer and him dieing from it. He was only in his mid 40's. I saw how life ended so early. I did research, and I came to the conclusion from the legality, biologicial, terminological, and the consititutional information that abortions are unconsititutional.

I fail to see the link between your father dying of cancer in his forties and why that means that abortion should be illegal.

Seriously. Thats a jump that makes no fat ******** sense to me. That's like me saying, "I'm allergic to chocolate....so no one can be on a low carb diet." OMGWTF?

[paper_phoenix]

My Conscience

I notice how a lot of pro-choicers will use the saying "It's my body! I do what I want with it".
Actually, here is evidence proving it isn't your body you are dealing with.
Is one the most prevalent arguments in support of abortion.
Sadly this is simply not true.
I say this not from an idelogical, relgious, moral, ethical, or philosophical standpoint, but from a purely fact based stand point.
A fact which I may add is borne out by Gentics.

You see hidden within the mammalian genome are a number of genomic retroviruses without which placental reproduction could not take place. The purpose of these retroviruses is to suppress the mothers immune system in order to keep the fetus from being recognised for what it is, a foreign body.

While the fetus may be an entity of its own, it still requires use of the woman's body in order to maintain stasis. Remove it from the uterus before it can sustain life on its own, and it will die.

So the statement about the woman having the choice to abort, based on the fact that it is her body that is going to be effected by the pregnancy, still remains true.

[Phantasy Tokoro]

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

Does anyone else notice how the lifers in here recently have been predominantly men? confused I can't help but wonder if it's the lack of understanding of pregnancy that's fueling their opinions.

My opinions are fueled by my fathers cancer and him dieing from it. He was only in his mid 40's. I saw how life ended so early. I did research, and I came to the conclusion from the legality, biologicial, terminological, and the consititutional information that abortions are unconsititutional.

That's interesting, especially considering how fetii have no rights under the constitution.

[SunflowerGoddess]

Pink Snow Blossom

Holy s**t, this thread's been reported? WHY???

Probably yet another pro-lifer coming in here screaming "aborshun is murdrr of inosent baybees women shud ceep der legs closed!!!11" followed by a few pro-choicers debating it. Then, instead of actually finishing the debate they started, they go and cry to a mod about how they were "flamed".

[paper_phoenix]

Langlen

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

Does anyone else notice how the lifers in here recently have been predominantly men? confused I can't help but wonder if it's the lack of understanding of pregnancy that's fueling their opinions.

My opinions are fueled by my fathers cancer and him dieing from it. He was only in his mid 40's. I saw how life ended so early. I did research, and I came to the conclusion from the legality, biologicial, terminological, and the consititutional information that abortions are unconsititutional.

That's interesting, especially considering how fetii have no rights under the constitution.

That's what I'm saying. The amendment he keeps hinging his argument on clearly states that-in order to be considered a being worthy of having rights-one must be either born or naturalized. And since fetii are obviously not born, nor are they capable of being tested on their knowledge of how this country is run, therefore proving they can assimilate into this country with little problem, they are not eligible for legal rights.

[n!ggastolemybike]

Arguing about abortion is pointless and stupid. Neither side will change their opinion. All I know is that I don't remember being born, and I wouldn't be offended if I was aborted, because I wasn't born yet.

Do you know what it's like when you die? The same way it is before you are born. The aborted fetus will have no concept of time. If they were aborted, they won't know it until they are born again.

Hell, maybe I was aborted once. But I don't remember it. So I don't care. I like my life, so if anything I'm thankful. Maybe my other life would have sucked. Or vice-versa...but even in that case, I can't change it so I still don't care.

At least that's what I think. Now you're getting into the religious aspect of it, and, like always, there's where the debate gets heated.

Have fun, kids. I'm out.

[[ I Break For Beavers ]]

caela_rue

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

Does anyone else notice how the lifers in here recently have been predominantly men? confused I can't help but wonder if it's the lack of understanding of pregnancy that's fueling their opinions.

My opinions are fueled by my fathers cancer and him dieing from it. He was only in his mid 40's. I saw how life ended so early. I did research, and I came to the conclusion from the legality, biologicial, terminological, and the consititutional information that abortions are unconsititutional.

I fail to see the link between your father dying of cancer in his forties and why that means that abortion should be illegal.

My dad died of cancer last summer and I'm still 100% pro-choice.. @ n!ggastolemybike that was brilliant it reflects my opinion perfectly

(Back together with my boyfriend for all those curious)

[ManicMania]

Very good job on the layout of the new thread. I already stated my opinion in the last one, however since it has been locked I will state it again.

I personally believe abortion is wrong, but if the mother to be wishes to terminate, I think it is her decision and I will respect it. However, to all women who are considering it, please think of your options. Take some time to think about your decision, don't jump to it so hastily.

By the way, to anyone who is probably going to flame me and say "This is the easy way out" or "You're just trying to please everybody"; I am not trying to please everyone, and if I am so what? I just believe it is inhuman to force someone into giving birth, but I believe in carefull planning and consulting with the subject. I think abortion is a subject not to be taken lightly.

[My Conscience]

Nethilia

caela_rue

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

Does anyone else notice how the lifers in here recently have been predominantly men? confused I can't help but wonder if it's the lack of understanding of pregnancy that's fueling their opinions.

My opinions are fueled by my fathers cancer and him dieing from it. He was only in his mid 40's. I saw how life ended so early. I did research, and I came to the conclusion from the legality, biologicial, terminological, and the consititutional information that abortions are unconsititutional.

I fail to see the link between your father dying of cancer in his forties and why that means that abortion should be illegal.

Seriously. Thats a jump that makes no fat ******** sense to me. That's like me saying, "I'm allergic to chocolate....so no one can be on a low carb diet." OMGWTF?

Why do you all have to be such asswipes about it and jump on my back.
Lets say you used to be a binge drinker. Your whole family goes out to dinner while you stay at home. They all die because a drunk driver hit their car. Wouldn't this make you stop binge drinking? Also, I saw my fathers last few breaths. It happened a couple months ago. When you see someone that fought so hard to live, he overcame countless things that the doctors still are bewildered about. Then he is gone. You see how someone can be with you one minute and gone the next. Life is to short. I knew plenty of things my father wanted to do but was unable to because he passed away. Since life is so short I believe everyones life is important and no ones life is more important than anothers.

[My Conscience]

caela_rue

Langlen

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

Does anyone else notice how the lifers in here recently have been predominantly men? confused I can't help but wonder if it's the lack of understanding of pregnancy that's fueling their opinions.

My opinions are fueled by my fathers cancer and him dieing from it. He was only in his mid 40's. I saw how life ended so early. I did research, and I came to the conclusion from the legality, biologicial, terminological, and the consititutional information that abortions are unconsititutional.

That's interesting, especially considering how fetii have no rights under the constitution.

That's what I'm saying. The amendment he keeps hinging his argument on clearly states that-in order to be considered a being worthy of having rights-one must be either born or naturalized. And since fetii are obviously not born, nor are they capable of being tested on their knowledge of how this country is run, therefore proving they can assimilate into this country with little problem, they are not eligible for legal rights.

I'll repost my arguement:

LAW:

United States Consitution; The 14th Amendent

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

• My opening statement to this Amendment is that I believe it protects zygotes/fetus by guaranteeing every person the right to life.
  
• Here is my lingustic anaylsis:
  
• "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." - This just states that all people who have a naturalization card or were born on United States soil are citizens of this country and have to abide by the laws.
  
• " No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States..." - no state can make or enforce any laws that go against any citizens civil liberties.
  
• "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;" - hence how they used citizen throught the amendment but used person instead in this section. Every person on United States soil, whether citizen or not, has the right to life and due process. This is the part that protects illegal aliens from being killed on U.S. soil and makes it illegal.
  
• "nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." - every person, including non-citizens, are guaranteed equal protection of the laws with due process.
  

[Phantasy Tokoro]

My Conscience

caela_rue

Langlen

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

Does anyone else notice how the lifers in here recently have been predominantly men? confused I can't help but wonder if it's the lack of understanding of pregnancy that's fueling their opinions.

My opinions are fueled by my fathers cancer and him dieing from it. He was only in his mid 40's. I saw how life ended so early. I did research, and I came to the conclusion from the legality, biologicial, terminological, and the consititutional information that abortions are unconsititutional.

That's interesting, especially considering how fetii have no rights under the constitution.

That's what I'm saying. The amendment he keeps hinging his argument on clearly states that-in order to be considered a being worthy of having rights-one must be either born or naturalized. And since fetii are obviously not born, nor are they capable of being tested on their knowledge of how this country is run, therefore proving they can assimilate into this country with little problem, they are not eligible for legal rights.

I'll repost my arguement:

LAW:

United States Consitution; The 14th Amendent

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

• My opening statement to this Amendment is that I believe it protects zygotes/fetus by guaranteeing every person the right to life.
  
• Here is my lingustic anaylsis:
  
• "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." - This just states that all people who have a naturalization card or were born on United States soil are citizens of this country and have to abide by the laws.
  
• " No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States..." - no state can make or enforce any laws that go against any citizens civil liberties.
  
• "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;" - hence how they used citizen throught the amendment but used person instead in this section. Every person on United States soil, whether citizen or not, has the right to life and due process. This is the part that protects illegal aliens from being killed on U.S. soil and makes it illegal.
  
• "nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." - every person, including non-citizens, are guaranteed equal protection of the laws with due process.
  

This is all fine and dandy, but it still dosen't protect the right of fetii. They are not born, nor are proven to qualify for the title "person".

[My Conscience]

Crystallyne Vixen

My Conscience

Another thing I don't understand how the law lets this happen is - how can a minor be allowed to get an abortion without parent approval? This is really disgusts me. A minor can't go to their normal doctor without parent permission, they can't take advil without parent permission (most parents wouldn't take there child to court for that. People do that all the time), they can't really take any medications without parent permission, they can't get a permit without parent permission, and I could go on, yet, they can get an abortion without parent permission. What kind of B.S. is that?

Minors can go to the doctor without parent permission. There's this thing called the HIPPA privacy practice now, and anything between patient and doctor need not be communicated to the parents.

Here is the evidence I needed: http://www.nyclu.org/thi/quiz/quiz_full_version.htm

Minors have to have parent permission to visit the doctors. Since this is true, I don't understand why minors are allowed to get an abortion without parent permission. Minors need parent permission to visit the doctors, take any medication including Advil, and even more. Yet they don't have to to have an abortion.

[My Conscience]

Langlen

My Conscience

caela_rue

Langlen

My Conscience

My opinions are fueled by my fathers cancer and him dieing from it. He was only in his mid 40's. I saw how life ended so early. I did research, and I came to the conclusion from the legality, biologicial, terminological, and the consititutional information that abortions are unconsititutional.

That's interesting, especially considering how fetii have no rights under the constitution.

That's what I'm saying. The amendment he keeps hinging his argument on clearly states that-in order to be considered a being worthy of having rights-one must be either born or naturalized. And since fetii are obviously not born, nor are they capable of being tested on their knowledge of how this country is run, therefore proving they can assimilate into this country with little problem, they are not eligible for legal rights.

I'll repost my arguement:

LAW:

United States Consitution; The 14th Amendent

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

• My opening statement to this Amendment is that I believe it protects zygotes/fetus by guaranteeing every person the right to life.
  
• Here is my lingustic anaylsis:
  
• "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." - This just states that all people who have a naturalization card or were born on United States soil are citizens of this country and have to abide by the laws.
  
• " No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States..." - no state can make or enforce any laws that go against any citizens civil liberties.
  
• "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;" - hence how they used citizen throught the amendment but used person instead in this section. Every person on United States soil, whether citizen or not, has the right to life and due process. This is the part that protects illegal aliens from being killed on U.S. soil and makes it illegal.
  
• "nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." - every person, including non-citizens, are guaranteed equal protection of the laws with due process.
  

This is all fine and dandy, but it still dosen't protect the right of fetii. They are not born, nor are proven to qualify for the title "person".

You missed my whole post crying My evidence proves that the born part doesn't pertain to being born inorder to have rights. Read it again ^_^

[TPauSilver]

My Conscience

Lets say you used to be a binge drinker. Your whole family goes out to dinner while you stay at home. They all die because a drunk driver hit their car. Wouldn't this make you stop binge drinking? Also, I saw my fathers last few breaths. It happened a couple months ago. When you see someone that fought so hard to live, he overcame countless things that the doctors still are bewildered about. Then he is gone. You see how someone can be with you one minute and gone the next. Life is to short. I knew plenty of things my father wanted to do but was unable to because he passed away. Since life is so short I believe everyones life is important and no ones life is more important than anothers.

Isn't the point though that your father didn't get to do what he wanted to do? Of course, it would still be sad if he'd died content having achieved everything he wanted and I'm sorry to hear that he's died, but isn't the point that he didn't live the life that he wanted to? Think about the woman, for a second. For the sake of a fetus who can neither think nor feel, who can have no dreams and no desires, who doesn't have the capacity to be unforfiled, you want the woman to give up her hopes and dreams and desires and be mother? A life is a terrible thing to waste, dont get me wrong, having a kid isn't a waste if you want it, but having to put all your hopes and dreams asside because you got up the duff, for all the way we have to go I thought feminism had come further then that.