The Abortion Debate

[My Conscience]

Crystallyne Vixen

My Conscience

Another thing I don't understand how the law lets this happen is - how can a minor be allowed to get an abortion without parent approval? This is really disgusts me. A minor can't go to their normal doctor without parent permission, they can't take advil without parent permission (most parents wouldn't take there child to court for that. People do that all the time), they can't really take any medications without parent permission, they can't get a permit without parent permission, and I could go on, yet, they can get an abortion without parent permission. What kind of B.S. is that?

Minors can go to the doctor without parent permission. There's this thing called the HIPPA privacy practice now, and anything between patient and doctor need not be communicated to the parents.

The whole minor thing is not communicated in this document sweatdrop http://www.ligynonc.com/Hippa_notice.htm

Nevertheless, how can minors not be allowed to get a permit, take medication (minors really can't take meds without parent permission), any many more, yet they can get an abortion sweatdrop

[_C r y s t a l_RB]

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

Does anyone else notice how the lifers in here recently have been predominantly men? confused I can't help but wonder if it's the lack of understanding of pregnancy that's fueling their opinions.

My opinions are fueled by my fathers cancer and him dieing from it. He was only in his mid 40's. I saw how life ended so early. I did research, and I came to the conclusion from the legality, biologicial, terminological, and the consititutional information that abortions are unconsititutional.

People die young all the time. Besides, if you're going to use the constitution, and say that it somehow states abortion is against it, then to fuel my initial post, who wrote the constitution? People who don't understand certain functions of the female body, and aparently those who don't care about women's health. It sickens me to know you'd force such laws on the gender that's responsible for you being here. It makes you look damned ungrateful.

[_C r y s t a l_RB]

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

My Conscience

Another thing I don't understand how the law lets this happen is - how can a minor be allowed to get an abortion without parent approval? This is really disgusts me. A minor can't go to their normal doctor without parent permission, they can't take advil without parent permission (most parents wouldn't take there child to court for that. People do that all the time), they can't really take any medications without parent permission, they can't get a permit without parent permission, and I could go on, yet, they can get an abortion without parent permission. What kind of B.S. is that?

Minors can go to the doctor without parent permission. There's this thing called the HIPPA privacy practice now, and anything between patient and doctor need not be communicated to the parents.

The whole minor thing is not communicated in this document sweatdrop http://www.ligynonc.com/Hippa_notice.htm

Nevertheless, how can minors not be allowed to get a permit, take medication (minors really can't take meds without parent permission), any many more, yet they can get an abortion sweatdrop

But it's an issue. I work with it all the time dear. If a 17 year old has a prescription for birth control at my pharmacy, birth control her parents know nothing about, I am not allowed, through the HIPPA laws to ever communicate to her parents that she's taking such meds. It works the same with doctors visits. If a minor goes to the doctor on her own free will for an illness, the doctor, nor the staff is to communicate to the parents of said patient why that patient was there, or even that the patient was there.

[My Conscience]

Crystallyne Vixen

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

Does anyone else notice how the lifers in here recently have been predominantly men? confused I can't help but wonder if it's the lack of understanding of pregnancy that's fueling their opinions.

My opinions are fueled by my fathers cancer and him dieing from it. He was only in his mid 40's. I saw how life ended so early. I did research, and I came to the conclusion from the legality, biologicial, terminological, and the consititutional information that abortions are unconsititutional.

People die young all the time. Besides, if you're going to use the constitution, and say that it somehow states abortion is against it, then to fuel my initial post, who wrote the constitution? People who don't understand certain functions of the female body, and aparently those who don't care about women's health. It sickens me to know you'd force such laws on the gender that's responsible for you being here. It makes you look damned ungrateful.

But nevertheless, isn't it law? Like monoquil (I forgot how to spell her name gonk She is a pretty famous pro-choicer on Gaia) said, abortions are not about the mother or the fetus.

[_C r y s t a l_RB]

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

Does anyone else notice how the lifers in here recently have been predominantly men? confused I can't help but wonder if it's the lack of understanding of pregnancy that's fueling their opinions.

My opinions are fueled by my fathers cancer and him dieing from it. He was only in his mid 40's. I saw how life ended so early. I did research, and I came to the conclusion from the legality, biologicial, terminological, and the consititutional information that abortions are unconsititutional.

People die young all the time. Besides, if you're going to use the constitution, and say that it somehow states abortion is against it, then to fuel my initial post, who wrote the constitution? People who don't understand certain functions of the female body, and aparently those who don't care about women's health. It sickens me to know you'd force such laws on the gender that's responsible for you being here. It makes you look damned ungrateful.

But nevertheless, isn't it law? Like monoquil (I forgot how to spell her name gonk She is a pretty famous pro-choicer on Gaia) said, abortions are not about the mother or the fetus.

The constiution does not equal law. Laws are made based on it, but until the law is made, the consitution can't do anything. And how many times has it been changed? I believe we've made amendments and changed them a couple times, and we are still adding amendments today. The constitution is not rock solid.

[My Conscience]

Crystallyne Vixen

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

My Conscience

Another thing I don't understand how the law lets this happen is - how can a minor be allowed to get an abortion without parent approval? This is really disgusts me. A minor can't go to their normal doctor without parent permission, they can't take advil without parent permission (most parents wouldn't take there child to court for that. People do that all the time), they can't really take any medications without parent permission, they can't get a permit without parent permission, and I could go on, yet, they can get an abortion without parent permission. What kind of B.S. is that?

Minors can go to the doctor without parent permission. There's this thing called the HIPPA privacy practice now, and anything between patient and doctor need not be communicated to the parents.

The whole minor thing is not communicated in this document sweatdrop http://www.ligynonc.com/Hippa_notice.htm

Nevertheless, how can minors not be allowed to get a permit, take medication (minors really can't take meds without parent permission), any many more, yet they can get an abortion sweatdrop

But it's an issue. I work with it all the time dear. If a 17 year old has a prescription for birth control at my pharmacy, birth control her parents know nothing about, I am not allowed, through the HIPPA laws to ever communicate to her parents that she's taking such meds. It works the same with doctors visits. If a minor goes to the doctor on her own free will for an illness, the doctor, nor the staff is to communicate to the parents of said patient why that patient was there, or even that the patient was there.

Ah! In Oregon the doctors can contact your parents can't your will about your abortion.
http://www.osbar.org/public/pamphlets/youthlaw/health.html

And I believe that HIPPA laws are only for adults. Such as if my wife called the doctor when I went. They can't tell her what the doctor said.

[_C r y s t a l_RB]

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

My Conscience

Another thing I don't understand how the law lets this happen is - how can a minor be allowed to get an abortion without parent approval? This is really disgusts me. A minor can't go to their normal doctor without parent permission, they can't take advil without parent permission (most parents wouldn't take there child to court for that. People do that all the time), they can't really take any medications without parent permission, they can't get a permit without parent permission, and I could go on, yet, they can get an abortion without parent permission. What kind of B.S. is that?

Minors can go to the doctor without parent permission. There's this thing called the HIPPA privacy practice now, and anything between patient and doctor need not be communicated to the parents.

The whole minor thing is not communicated in this document sweatdrop http://www.ligynonc.com/Hippa_notice.htm

Nevertheless, how can minors not be allowed to get a permit, take medication (minors really can't take meds without parent permission), any many more, yet they can get an abortion sweatdrop

But it's an issue. I work with it all the time dear. If a 17 year old has a prescription for birth control at my pharmacy, birth control her parents know nothing about, I am not allowed, through the HIPPA laws to ever communicate to her parents that she's taking such meds. It works the same with doctors visits. If a minor goes to the doctor on her own free will for an illness, the doctor, nor the staff is to communicate to the parents of said patient why that patient was there, or even that the patient was there.

Ah! In Oregon the doctors can contact your parents can't your will about your abortion.
http://www.osbar.org/public/pamphlets/youthlaw/health.html

And I believe that HIPPA laws are only for adults. Such as if my wife called the doctor when I went. They can't tell her what the doctor said.

And in Oregon you can practice Active Euthanasia too. In the state of Ohio, where I live, the HIPPA laws apply to EVERYONE not just adults.

We had a 14 year old girl call and ask us to not tell her parents what the meds they were picking up for her were for. Since she did that, we could not tell them due to HIPPA.

[My Conscience]

Crystallyne Vixen

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

Does anyone else notice how the lifers in here recently have been predominantly men? confused I can't help but wonder if it's the lack of understanding of pregnancy that's fueling their opinions.

My opinions are fueled by my fathers cancer and him dieing from it. He was only in his mid 40's. I saw how life ended so early. I did research, and I came to the conclusion from the legality, biologicial, terminological, and the consititutional information that abortions are unconsititutional.

People die young all the time. Besides, if you're going to use the constitution, and say that it somehow states abortion is against it, then to fuel my initial post, who wrote the constitution? People who don't understand certain functions of the female body, and aparently those who don't care about women's health. It sickens me to know you'd force such laws on the gender that's responsible for you being here. It makes you look damned ungrateful.

But nevertheless, isn't it law? Like monoquil (I forgot how to spell her name gonk She is a pretty famous pro-choicer on Gaia) said, abortions are not about the mother or the fetus.

The constiution does not equal law. Laws are made based on it, but until the law is made, the consitution can't do anything. And how many times has it been changed? I believe we've made amendments and changed them a couple times, and we are still adding amendments today. The constitution is not rock solid.

Hmm ... the consititution is law ...
For example; during the time of slavery the law permitting slavery was the consititution. Then they amended that law. But the consititution was the law permitting it 3nodding 3nodding

[_C r y s t a l_RB]

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

Does anyone else notice how the lifers in here recently have been predominantly men? confused I can't help but wonder if it's the lack of understanding of pregnancy that's fueling their opinions.

My opinions are fueled by my fathers cancer and him dieing from it. He was only in his mid 40's. I saw how life ended so early. I did research, and I came to the conclusion from the legality, biologicial, terminological, and the consititutional information that abortions are unconsititutional.

People die young all the time. Besides, if you're going to use the constitution, and say that it somehow states abortion is against it, then to fuel my initial post, who wrote the constitution? People who don't understand certain functions of the female body, and aparently those who don't care about women's health. It sickens me to know you'd force such laws on the gender that's responsible for you being here. It makes you look damned ungrateful.

But nevertheless, isn't it law? Like monoquil (I forgot how to spell her name gonk She is a pretty famous pro-choicer on Gaia) said, abortions are not about the mother or the fetus.

The constiution does not equal law. Laws are made based on it, but until the law is made, the consitution can't do anything. And how many times has it been changed? I believe we've made amendments and changed them a couple times, and we are still adding amendments today. The constitution is not rock solid.

Hmm ... the consititution is law ...
For example; during the time of slavery the law permitting slavery was the consititution. Then they amended that law. But the consititution was the law permitting it 3nodding 3nodding

Yeah, and when we amended it forbidding alcohol people went crazy. Don't you think such an amendment for abortion would turn the same way that one did? I still can't get over your blind faith in something a bunch of men wrote forever ago. Times have changed, and the laws have to change with it. Don't forget that if abortion were against the constitution, it wouldn't be legal now. But alas, it is legal, and I'm sure the topic was well discussed and looked over before the law was reversed back around the 50s. What is more important to you, the lives of women, the lives of fetii (non-sentient beings), or a piece of paper? I think it's about time you've checked over your priorities. Right now, I have a big priority to attend to, work. Chao!

[My Conscience]

I notice how a lot of pro-choicers will use the saying "It's my body! I do what I want with it".
Actually, here is evidence proving it isn't your body you are dealing with.
Is one the most prevalent arguments in support of abortion.
Sadly this is simply not true.
I say this not from an idelogical, relgious, moral, ethical, or philosophical standpoint, but from a purely fact based stand point.
A fact which I may add is borne out by Gentics.

You see hidden within the mammalian genome are a number of genomic retroviruses without which placental reproduction could not take place. The purpose of these retroviruses is to suppress the mothers immune system in order to keep the fetus from being recognised for what it is, a foreign body.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_20_157/ai_62791146
http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowFulltext&ProduktNr=224037&Ausgabe=230866&ArtikelNr=84967
http://darwin.bio.uci.edu/~faculty/villarreal/new1/host-virus.html

[My Conscience]

Crystallyne Vixen

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

My Conscience

Crystallyne Vixen

People die young all the time. Besides, if you're going to use the constitution, and say that it somehow states abortion is against it, then to fuel my initial post, who wrote the constitution? People who don't understand certain functions of the female body, and aparently those who don't care about women's health. It sickens me to know you'd force such laws on the gender that's responsible for you being here. It makes you look damned ungrateful.

But nevertheless, isn't it law? Like monoquil (I forgot how to spell her name gonk She is a pretty famous pro-choicer on Gaia) said, abortions are not about the mother or the fetus.

The constiution does not equal law. Laws are made based on it, but until the law is made, the consitution can't do anything. And how many times has it been changed? I believe we've made amendments and changed them a couple times, and we are still adding amendments today. The constitution is not rock solid.

Hmm ... the consititution is law ...
For example; during the time of slavery the law permitting slavery was the consititution. Then they amended that law. But the consititution was the law permitting it 3nodding 3nodding

Yeah, and when we amended it forbidding alcohol people went crazy. Don't you think such an amendment for abortion would turn the same way that one did? I still can't get over your blind faith in something a bunch of men wrote forever ago. Times have changed, and the laws have to change with it. Don't forget that if abortion were against the constitution, it wouldn't be legal now. But alas, it is legal, and I'm sure the topic was well discussed and looked over before the law was reversed back around the 50s. What is more important to you, the lives of women, the lives of fetii (non-sentient beings), or a piece of paper? I think it's about time you've checked over your priorities. Right now, I have a big priority to attend to, work. Chao!

The length of time a law has been around before it has been amended doesn't make it not illegal >.>
Slavery was around for 200 years 3nodding That still doesn't make it legal.

Also, all these terms that pro-choicers use are just terministic screens 3nodding Clump of cells, un sentient beings, etc. They all are just terministic screens for a zygote/fetus. No matter how you word it or say it, it's still the same thing 3nodding

[Gris]

My Conscience

I notice how a lot of pro-choicers will use the saying "It's my body! I do what I want with it".
Actually, here is evidence proving it isn't your body you are dealing with.

If I decide not to allow a foreign life of any sort to draw off of my body, then I will take what steps I deem necessary to deny that foreign body the use of mine. *That's* what I'd mean if I said "it's my body" - I'd use it in the same sense of "I'll eat bacon every day if I want, it's my body" or "I'll stay up late to post on Gaia, it's my body." ;p

I'm well aware the fetus would be another life. I just don't consider it to be worth more than I am.

[Emiri Insane]

My Conscience

I notice how a lot of pro-choicers will use the saying "It's my body! I do what I want with it".
Actually, here is evidence proving it isn't your body you are dealing with.
Is one the most prevalent arguments in support of abortion.
Sadly this is simply not true.
I say this not from an idelogical, relgious, moral, ethical, or philosophical standpoint, but from a purely fact based stand point.
A fact which I may add is borne out by Gentics.

You see hidden within the mammalian genome are a number of genomic retroviruses without which placental reproduction could not take place. The purpose of these retroviruses is to suppress the mothers immune system in order to keep the fetus from being recognised for what it is, a foreign body.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_20_157/ai_62791146
link 2
http://darwin.bio.uci.edu/~faculty/villarreal/new1/host-virus.html

That's nice. However, it is still my body it is residing in. It still needs me to survive. Personally, I don't care how it has it's own body. It still needs mine. And I don't want it to.

[Kata Samoes]

Actually, that's not proof. It IS her body. NO ONE elses, and you're talking about natural processes that happen in the human body.

Also, about the constitution: You're taking your perception of fetus=person, and combining it with the constitution.

Fetii are not people. They're not born into infancy, they're not legally recognized as being a person, therefore, your argument plain sucks.

Constitution =/= law. Laws are written based on the constitution. Laws are seperated entities that depend on NOT contradicting the constitution and its amendments. When an amendment occurs, laws change and/or are added on to.

Your arguments aren't too bad, but I'm seeing a lot of opinion, and not enough fact.

[Freedom Fire]

Holy s**t, this thread's been reported? WHY???