The Abortion Debate

[Mistress DragonFlame]

My Conscience

I would still be charged with murder gonk

I would see you being charged with being inhumane, discharging a weapon in a public building, and at another person with the intent to harm. But not murder.

[Nethilia]

Talon-chan

Where did this happen? Kansas? (seriously, do you know where this happened I want to look it up)

Michigan. I believe she gave us the link.

[Moniquill]

My Conscience

I would still be charged with murder gonk

Except that you totally wouldn't because in many states it's entirely legal, even MANDATED, that life support of noncognitive individuals be terminated.

[Mistress DragonFlame]

My Conscience

You actually have to give it to a bank to redeem it. A store wouldn't accept it xd

When I had my job at the snack bar, yes, we did. The manager would then take the bill(s) and exchange it at the bank for new ones.

[Moniquill]

My Conscience

You actually have to give it to a bank to redeem it. A store wouldn't accept it xd

Depends on the store, and on how much tape you have.

[Reinna Astarel]

DiGital Lucifer

Reinna Astarel

DiGital Lucifer

Wrong one.
The one I'm talking about, the kid didn't use a bat or anything besides his feet [I think they said the girl punched herself repeatedly while the boy stomped on her stomach. And the reason why he was blamed was because they think the stomping was the cause of the misscariage]

Well, I'd have to say that blaming him and sentencing him for it is ******** stupid.

In regards that Talon wrote about? Or the one I'm refering to? I assume the one I'm referring to.

I was referring to yours. But since it seemed like very similar circumstances. (ie. purposeful miscarrying, carried out at either the wishes of the female by the male, or by both, and blame being placed on the male) I'd have to say it probably would be in regards to both.

[JANUX 99]

Reinna Astarel

DiGital Lucifer

Reinna Astarel

DiGital Lucifer

Wrong one.
The one I'm talking about, the kid didn't use a bat or anything besides his feet [I think they said the girl punched herself repeatedly while the boy stomped on her stomach. And the reason why he was blamed was because they think the stomping was the cause of the misscariage]

Well, I'd have to say that blaming him and sentencing him for it is ******** stupid.

In regards that Talon wrote about? Or the one I'm refering to? I assume the one I'm referring to.

I was referring to yours. But since it seemed like very similar circumstances. (ie. purposeful miscarrying, carried out at either the wishes of the female by the male, or by both, and blame being placed on the male) I'd have to say it probably would be in regards to both.

Well I agree with both instances.
I think it's ******** up that the government could say there is no reasonable doubt that the boy isn't guilty of the crime; which I think requires malicious intent to the baby [without consent] or the mother [period].
I guess I can understand why the law is twisted to define itself that way, but by doing so, you screw anyone who can't pay, wont pay or whatever.
Just seems as wrong as not granting a woman an abortion in an extreme Emergency.

[Nonesuch Solo]

Moniquill

Nonesuch Solo

If arguments from potential are not allowed, then many of us will have to rethink the way we are emotionally affected by news stories about small children suffering.

And are you assuming that anyone here shares those views? I, personally, am not one of those who values children over adults. I am exactly as effected by children sufferign as I am about adults suffering as about animals suffering, because all of it is SUFFERING. And I don't give half a damn about fetal death, because there IS NO SUFFERING on the part of the fetus. Any and all suffering belongs to the woman, her partner, her family. I feel for those individuals. Now prove that any of us here do otherwise.

I am thinking of a few specific individuals who DO feel more sympathy when a young child is killed than when a non-young non-child is killed. Because the child does have great potential for doing good things with its potential future. These people have told me on several occasions "so what if the fetus has potential?"

I find the seemingly contradictory sentiments ironic.

I'm not saying anybody in this particular thread holds this view; "us" is a general "us." Not "Me and anybody reading this post."

I'm pretty sure there's a good chance that at least one of the people in this thread feels more tugs at their heartstrings when a toddler gets attacked by a dog than when a drunk steps out in front of a semi and gets splatted.

Arguing based on suffering, however, is rather effective. Your words did not change my opinion on that matter...

[Sand From The Future(GTD)]

People should be more careful,but there's nothing wrong with abortions in my opinion.The people who b***h about abortions should try to preserve the life of the people who are fully developed and sorrounding them.

[MaxManAtArms]

One thiing you should no regadless if u are male or female or what ever. the female has the power over her body. screw the law. the female body is mans temple as some males shall put it. NO. its not its hers. shes the ruler of it shes the master of it. The abostio nthing is bull let them do what they will. esapcliy is its rape. rape is not right.

[DarkFire168]

DiGital Lucifer

DiGital Lucifer

Nethilia

My Conscience

[I am teh Haruka]

An animal is nothing like a fetus.

An animal can think and can feel. A fetus can't.

Not having cognitive ablilty doesn't make it okay to kill a zygote/fetus. There are plenty of people in comotose or people that don't have cognitive abilties. Does it make it okay to kill them?

According to our *cough* excellence president, it's okay to pull the plug on a conscious woman and not allow her her dying wish of seeing her mother, if the hospital doesn't think that she can pay for it. Where were the protests for her?

Who cares. You yourself say all the time that a fetus isn't a person anyways. Unlike someone who is born.

Though something with more relevance to the topic...

Where are the cries for the boy who helped his girlfriend misscary under her own permission who got an automatic life-sentance because the law is twisted?
I don't see anyone making any mention to how ******** up that is and how it's because of abortion laws that the girl was let off because of her 'right' yet the boy is the one who takes the blame when all he did was take over for a liscensed doctor since they didn't have the money.

That's the case in New Mexico right? I thought that was pretty ******** up. Kid got locked up for life because the girlfriend wanted to abort and they didn't have money and her very pro-life family would never have helped her (they apparently disowned her when they found out what happened). It's a good sign that she's fighting to help get him out though.

[DarkFire168]

DiGital Lucifer

Well, since selfishness means being concerned for the number one person in your life, yourself, I question how it's not obvious that selfishness is the number one cause of negativity.
Conflict; theft; assault; Murder; hatred; Descrimination and whatever. I can keep going on and on with a list of bad things associated with selfishness. But my explanation stems from the problem of selfishness.. As humans, if we think of only ourselves, we forget about any negative impact those choices we make in a selfish manner can have [I say can, because it's not a gurantee]. Where-as you're more likely to be assisted by those you sacrificed for [also not a gurantee.. But it's funny how selfless acts are commended usually].
I ask.. How is it that being selfish is any good? And to clarify.. Basic instincts like eating, I don't see as selfish. Not unless you are being stingy and don't share; which is a selfless act sometimes if not done out of nessessity [like.. risking your life over food].

Now according to THE Definition of Responsibility, Adoption is irresponsible, but more responsible than what it's given credit for.
For those who are unfortunate enough to unwillingly give up their children so they can lead better lives.. That's not quite irresponsible to parenting.

1) You still haven't shown how selfishness is a bad or immoral thing. You're selfish every day of your life in matters of non-survival. You're being selfish right now. You have a computer and a home and an internet connection, you could be subsisting on the bare minimum and giving the rest away to the poor and needy but you aren't. Why? Basic human selfishness. And it's perfectly alright because survival demands we be selfish. If we were both on a desert island and the last coconut was up for grabs, I'd kill you. Probably with the coconut itself because those suckers are hard. And then I'd have your corpse AND a coconut to eat. Yum.

2) I don't think adoption or abortion are "irresponsible". I just find that those who define abortion as irresponsible because you're "shirking your parental duties" and then advocate adoption don't realize that paradox. Just thought I'd bring it to your attention.

[Goldback]

I'm mostly for abortion, especially when it comes to underaged rape-victims or when a water-puncture-mathing (I don't know the name of that in English) showed that the child is gonna be handicapped etc.

I think woman SHOULD have the choice but still also consider that "father's" choice as well. It's his kid too. However I feel kinda angry when girls use abortion as a sort of "anti conception" (well, just a bit late). I know it's not that many, but for crying out loud HAVE SAVE SEX already.

Also, I want to adopt a child someday or maybe even 2 but you can only legally adopt children from our country but there are nearly none up for adoption because either they are only foster kids (that's a different issue) or because there simply isn't that many unwanted children born. So I feel queesy cause if a woman does not want a child, well she might just give it to me... but that unrealistic and it's her choice not mine. I just feel kinda sad when I think about it. But no reason to take away their choice.

[divineseraph]

MaxManAtArms

One thiing you should no regadless if u are male or female or what ever. the female has the power over her body. screw the law. the female body is mans temple as some males shall put it. NO. its not its hers. shes the ruler of it shes the master of it. The abostio nthing is bull let them do what they will. esapcliy is its rape. rape is not right.

ignoring your horrible typing, i will say this- a child is not hers. yes, it resides in her body, but only due to completely known and voluntary actions. the reason for abortion is merely convenience based on greed, covered over with a sugary coating of self-pride.

[divineseraph]

DarkFire168

DiGital Lucifer

Well, since selfishness means being concerned for the number one person in your life, yourself, I question how it's not obvious that selfishness is the number one cause of negativity.
Conflict; theft; assault; Murder; hatred; Descrimination and whatever. I can keep going on and on with a list of bad things associated with selfishness. But my explanation stems from the problem of selfishness.. As humans, if we think of only ourselves, we forget about any negative impact those choices we make in a selfish manner can have [I say can, because it's not a gurantee]. Where-as you're more likely to be assisted by those you sacrificed for [also not a gurantee.. But it's funny how selfless acts are commended usually].
I ask.. How is it that being selfish is any good? And to clarify.. Basic instincts like eating, I don't see as selfish. Not unless you are being stingy and don't share; which is a selfless act sometimes if not done out of nessessity [like.. risking your life over food].

Now according to THE Definition of Responsibility, Adoption is irresponsible, but more responsible than what it's given credit for.
For those who are unfortunate enough to unwillingly give up their children so they can lead better lives.. That's not quite irresponsible to parenting.

1) You still haven't shown how selfishness is a bad or immoral thing. You're selfish every day of your life in matters of non-survival. You're being selfish right now. You have a computer and a home and an internet connection, you could be subsisting on the bare minimum and giving the rest away to the poor and needy but you aren't. Why? Basic human selfishness. And it's perfectly alright because survival demands we be selfish. If we were both on a desert island and the last coconut was up for grabs, I'd kill you. Probably with the coconut itself because those suckers are hard. And then I'd have your corpse AND a coconut to eat. Yum.

2) I don't think adoption or abortion are "irresponsible". I just find that those who define abortion as irresponsible because you're "shirking your parental duties" and then advocate adoption don't realize that paradox. Just thought I'd bring it to your attention.

#2, the difference is, one is irresponsible and causes death. the other is irresponsible but gives a child a chance at life. think about it for a few seconds.