The Abortion Debate

[JANUX 99]

Crystallyne Vixen

ShadowIce

DiGital Lucifer

Moniquill.. Don't you listen?

Personhood - The state or condition of being a person, especially having those qualities that confer distinct individuality:

Oh god, I hate answers like that.
I go to dictionary, look up egalitarian. The dictionary says, asserting, promoting, or marked by egalitarianism

It HURTS.

Only stupid dictionaries use parts of the word being defined in their definition.

Only stupid people don't understand there's a root word that isn't be defined for the purpose of simplicity. stare

[Moniquill]

My Conscience

If I took a dollar bill and ripped it into 100 pieces, would a store accept those 100 pieces as 100 dollars? I think not.

Actually, US law mandates that they HAVE TO. You only need 51% of a bill for it to be valid as currency.

[JANUX 99]

Moniquill

DiGital Lucifer

Where are the cries for the boy who helped his girlfriend misscary under her own permission who got an automatic life-sentance because the law is twisted?

I assure you, when this was fresh news there were plenty of cries. That you didn't hear them doesn't mean they didn't happen.

Good point Moniquill. I mean, damn.. The nerve of me not hearing about this. I mean, I should have known it could have happened. 3nodding

[Nethilia]

My Conscience

If I took a dollar bill and ripped it into 100 pieces, would a store accept those 100 pieces as 100 dollars? I think not.

If the clerk can put together the bill enough to write down the serial number, then he can recollect it.

[ShadowIce]

My Conscience

If I took a dollar bill and ripped it into 100 pieces, would a store accept those 100 pieces as 100 dollars? I think not. If I took a table and gave you the leg. I would say you are hold a part of a table.

A human child can't produce sperm or a girl child can't procreate, doesn't this make them not human since they don't have the so called "full parts"? No sweatdrop

If I rap a dollar bill and rip it into 100 pieces, they won't let me call it a dollar bill, either.

But anyway, if one can lack human parts and still be a person, having human parts is not the definition of person, is it?

[Moniquill]

DiGital Lucifer

Moniquill

My Conscience

Sure, if I showed you a corpse, isn't it a person?

Actually, no. Not by my definition. It WAS a person. Now it's merely a human body.

She's got a point.
Though it's human, it's not a person. Though it could be considered one, it still can be argued that it isn't. Either way you go, you're right.

Just as it can be argued that a fetus, while human, is NOT YET a person, in the same way that a corpse, while human, is NO LONGER a person.

[ReiDuck]

Moniquill

My Conscience

If I took a dollar bill and ripped it into 100 pieces, would a store accept those 100 pieces as 100 dollars? I think not.

Actually, US law mandates that they HAVE TO. You only need 51% of a bill for it to be valid as currency.

If it's 100 equal pieces, then each piece is only 1% of a bill.

[Alexandra Trannyth]

DiGital Lucifer

DiGital Lucifer

Nethilia

My Conscience

[I am teh Haruka]

An animal is nothing like a fetus.

An animal can think and can feel. A fetus can't.

Not having cognitive ablilty doesn't make it okay to kill a zygote/fetus. There are plenty of people in comotose or people that don't have cognitive abilties. Does it make it okay to kill them?

According to our *cough* excellence president, it's okay to pull the plug on a conscious woman and not allow her her dying wish of seeing her mother, if the hospital doesn't think that she can pay for it. Where were the protests for her?

Who cares. You yourself say all the time that a fetus isn't a person anyways. Unlike someone who is born.

Though something with more relevance to the topic...

Where are the cries for the boy who helped his girlfriend misscary under her own permission who got an automatic life-sentance because the law is twisted?
I don't see anyone making any mention to how ******** up that is and how it's because of abortion laws that the girl was let off because of her 'right' yet the boy is the one who takes the blame when all he did was take over for a liscensed doctor since they didn't have the money.

Actually I DO think that's ******** up, given that a) it was requested and b) if he was only penalized for doing something a lisenced doctor should be doing than the woman should also be held responsable for requesting it. But why no hue and cry over it? I'd heard the case and expressed my outrage earlier. It hasn't been brought up for some time.

[JANUX 99]

Nethilia

My Conscience

If I took a dollar bill and ripped it into 100 pieces, would a store accept those 100 pieces as 100 dollars? I think not.

If the clerk can put together the bill enough to write down the serial number, then he can recollect it.

Right. I know plenty of clerks that take ripped up dollar-bills for the purpose of writing down that serial number and trying to keep the collected peices as proof of ownership when he goes to the bank.

I don't get this.. So I can write down my serial numbers on every dollar bill I get, and can redeem it even if I spent it in the pop machine? confused

[ShadowIce]

DiGital Lucifer

Only stupid people don't understand there's a root word that isn't be defined for the purpose of simplicity. stare

If I ask you what personhood is, "the state of being a person," is not a good answer. I'm sorry, but it just isn't. I know absolutely no more than when I asked the question.

[Moniquill]

DiGital Lucifer

Moniquill

DiGital Lucifer

Moniquill.. Don't you listen?

Personhood - The state or condition of being a person, especially having those qualities that confer distinct individuality:

And what is the state or condition of being a person?
What are the qualities that confer distinct individuality?

In my book, that means consciousness and cognizance.

Funny how you didn't say this when we were talking about this exact thing earlier.

# A living human. Often used in combination: chairperson; spokesperson; salesperson.
# An individual of specified character: a person of importance.
# The composite of characteristics that make up an individual personality; the self.
# The living body of a human: searched the prisoner's person.
# Physique and general appearance.
# Law. A human or organization with legal rights and duties.
# Christianity. Any of the three separate individualities of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as distinguished from the essence of the Godhead that unites them.
# Grammar.

You didn't ask.
The problem with semantics is that meanings can change. Certain words in the english language are unweildy, with so many meanings that they are easily disputed. Personhood is a depate that was argued by Socrates and by Asimov. It's still argued today. That is CAN be argued means that it's poor fodder for determining the rightness or wrongness of an action. If a fetus is a person, does that make abortion wrong? If a fetus isn't a person, does that make abortion right?

[Talon-chan]

Moniquill

DiGital Lucifer

Where are the cries for the boy who helped his girlfriend misscary under her own permission who got an automatic life-sentance because the law is twisted?

I assure you, when this was fresh news there were plenty of cries. That you didn't hear them doesn't mean they didn't happen.

There were. I live in MD, a hop skip and jump away from Virginia where this happened. It was on the news for weeks and many were outraged that the boy was being charged and not the girl (stupid pro-punishment morons not realising that neither should be punished but that this is just an example of what happens when abortions are impossible for young women to get)


http://www.detnews.com/2005/metro/0501/05/A01-50709.htm

Life sentance my a**.

Quote:

He was charged as a juvenile with intentional conduct against a pregnancy or stillbirth, which is a felony. If convicted, he could remain in custody until age 21.

If the fetus were viable both would have been charged.

Quote:

Smith said if the 6-month-old fetus had been viable, the boy would have been charged with manslaughter of a quick-born child, a 15-year felony.

The girl could have then also received the same charge for aiding and abetting.

Further if abortions were easier to obtain perhaps our youth would not resort to such dramatic last resorts?

Quote:

Legally, the baby could have been aborted. Because the girl was a minor, she would have needed a judge's or parental permission to obtain an abortion.

[JANUX 99]

Alexandra Trannyth

DiGital Lucifer

DiGital Lucifer

Nethilia

My Conscience

[I am teh Haruka]

An animal is nothing like a fetus.

An animal can think and can feel. A fetus can't.

Not having cognitive ablilty doesn't make it okay to kill a zygote/fetus. There are plenty of people in comotose or people that don't have cognitive abilties. Does it make it okay to kill them?

According to our *cough* excellence president, it's okay to pull the plug on a conscious woman and not allow her her dying wish of seeing her mother, if the hospital doesn't think that she can pay for it. Where were the protests for her?

Who cares. You yourself say all the time that a fetus isn't a person anyways. Unlike someone who is born.

Though something with more relevance to the topic...

Where are the cries for the boy who helped his girlfriend misscary under her own permission who got an automatic life-sentance because the law is twisted?
I don't see anyone making any mention to how ******** up that is and how it's because of abortion laws that the girl was let off because of her 'right' yet the boy is the one who takes the blame when all he did was take over for a liscensed doctor since they didn't have the money.

Actually I DO think that's ******** up, given that a) it was requested and b) if he was only penalized for doing something a lisenced doctor should be doing than the woman should also be held responsable for requesting it. But why no hue and cry over it? I'd heard the case and expressed my outrage earlier. It hasn't been brought up for some time.

That's exactly how I feel.
I don't care that the girl got an abortion, just like anyone else [though I strongly advocate against many reasons why people do].. But I think it's absolutely wrong to punish someone when given consent simply because the law dictates such. Yeah the issue was that the boy is not supposed to be doing that kind of thing, and that doctors who are liscensed have immunity against such laws when consent is given and things are done by procedure.
But it makes me wonder.. If on one had we have to make a law to protect women, how can we avoid from having more people screwed by such things when Abortion costs money because most tax-payers refuse to support it with their funds.
I mean damn.. I feel sorry that the sentence was automatic. Dude didn't even get a chance to make an appeal or anything.

[AnimatedMartian]

DiGital Lucifer

Nethilia

My Conscience

If I took a dollar bill and ripped it into 100 pieces, would a store accept those 100 pieces as 100 dollars? I think not.

If the clerk can put together the bill enough to write down the serial number, then he can recollect it.

Right. I know plenty of clerks that take ripped up dollar-bills for the purpose of writing down that serial number and trying to keep the collected peices as proof of ownership when he goes to the bank.

I don't get this.. So I can write down my serial numbers on every dollar bill I get, and can redeem it even if I spent it in the pop machine? confused

not quite, you would have to give the soda back, equivelent trade

[My Conscience]

Nethilia

ShadowIce

My Conscience

Both.
Take the DNA from the 1st and 2nd one, then compair them all to a ... lets say 2 year old. It's all the same 3nodding

Incorrect (they are not both human), and you aren't using your definition of human (which was, and I quote, "a : bodily appearance b : the body of a human being;" wink . Try again! biggrin

Using his definition, my Addy doll, since she looks human, is a person. Time to cite her on my taxes.

It's really hard to debate 15+ pro-choicers when there are only 2 pro-lifers gonk My words get twisted so much.
I'll try to re-word it:
A human can produce its own DNA. A person is a human, this is canon xd My definition just says that a person is the bodily form of a human being.