The Abortion Debate

[paper_phoenix]

divineseraph

caela_rue

divineseraph

but it's not punishment.

Let's get this straight: You say that women should be forced to carry a fetus to term, solely because they chose to have sex, regardless of whether or not they can afford the prenatal care-not to mention the hospital stay or even the next eighteen years-or their own morals standings on the matter, correct?

If that's not punishment, then I'm the queen of Sheba.

hello your majesty.

Guess what? I'm not the queen of Sheba, you are for punishing women, and you obviously don't grasp sarcasm.

[CAPTAIN Plixy[Stix]]

divineseraph

Crystallyne Vixen

Yeah she gave birth to a child, and he's STILL giving her a hard time.

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.

well, it puts abortion into perspective... given time, it is not merely a clump of cells, but a living human

The difference is that...

Beatrix wanted it!

If it's wanted, they'll care. If it's unwanted, they won't.

And people actually think about the present. Not the future. In the present, it's a clump of cells and that's when it's okay to abort.

[Alexandra Trannyth]

divineseraph

Crystallyne Vixen

divineseraph

Beatrix the catgirl

divineseraph

because, dear, mine saves lives. let's do a little reality check here- greed whioch brings about death, or inconvenience that allows lives to exist? anyone who would choose the first is truly a weak individual

Oh? You have actually saved a life? Wow, I did not know that.

And you're being greedy yourself by saying your worldview is more valued than others. And by making abortion illegal, you would not be saving lives, you would force women to find their own means to abort, which results in the death of the woman fetus.

And my little one is crying, so I gotta go feed her.

a child? i commend you for your honor in allowing a life to exist... now, in 5 years, if she ever tells you she loves you, imagine choosing abortion.

Oh yeah, let's try and mess with people's emotions now. I'm sorry, but if have a child, I'm going to want it, so the thought of abortion will not come to my mind.

but, being pro-choice, the option is there...he, she, could have been gone, just a clump of unliving cells in a medical waste bin...

And in doing so, it would have never been the cute wriggling pink thing that a person can so readily form an emotional attechment to.

[divineseraph]

DiGital Lucifer

Crystallyne Vixen

Yeah she gave birth to a child, and he's STILL giving her a hard time.

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.

You know it's based on the fact that she's pro-choice but had a child.
He's making an emotional ploy that explains how he feels.
It's not about damning anyone here.. He has gone that far as saying someone is full of s**t, and should be treated maliciously because they are a parent.

no, not treated maliciously... it's great that she allowed a life to exist, beautiful. but kind of hypocritical for one with a child to be for their destruction

[divineseraph]

[I am teh Haruka]

divineseraph

Crystallyne Vixen

Yeah she gave birth to a child, and he's STILL giving her a hard time.

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.

well, it puts abortion into perspective... given time, it is not merely a clump of cells, but a living human

The difference is that...

Beatrix wanted it!

If it's wanted, they'll care. If it's unwanted, they won't.

And people actually think about the present. Not the future. In the present, it's a clump of cells and that's when it's okay to abort.

yes, but the future will be the present in due time.

[CAPTAIN Plixy[Stix]]

Crystallyne Vixen

I will personally learn the best technique for coathanger abortions and offer my skills for free. 3nodding

What about a $1.00 fee?

XD At least you get paid for helping people.

[_C r y s t a l_RB]

divineseraph

DiGital Lucifer

Crystallyne Vixen

Yeah she gave birth to a child, and he's STILL giving her a hard time.

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.

You know it's based on the fact that she's pro-choice but had a child.
He's making an emotional ploy that explains how he feels.
It's not about damning anyone here.. He has gone that far as saying someone is full of s**t, and should be treated maliciously because they are a parent.

no, not treated maliciously... it's great that she allowed a life to exist, beautiful. but kind of hypocritical for one with a child to be for their destruction

She's not pro-abortion, she's pro-CHOICE.

[My Conscience]

divineseraph

malikpossessed

My Conscience

Goddess Hekate

My Conscience

Alexandra Trannyth

My Conscience, if foetii and pre-foetii are people as you say, why then do you believe abortion is wrong? A born person cannot make use of another person's body for any purpose without the other party's experss consent because that infringes upon their right to bodily integrity. This is up to and including making use of another's body so that they may continue to live. Why then should an unborn person be able to?

How can "bodily integrity" overpower civil liberties? Since the use of bodily integrity is involuntary for the zygote/fetus it can't be charged with the crime.
Such as if an infant accidentally picked up a knife and killed his mother with the knife when he was playing with it. There isn't malse in the zygote/fetuses actions. There is malse in the abortionite.

If we assume that foetii are infact human beings, not that any pro-lifer has given reason for us to believe so (yet?) it doesn't truly matter if it has choice in the matter.
Bacteria has no choice in the matter either.
Cancer has no choice in the matter of whether or not it will mutate.

lets say while you were being operated you were linked with tubes and whatnot to another person this person is in a coma, he has a 50% chance of waking up, BUT the hospital doesn't have enough respirators so they hooked you up with him.
Do you NOT have the option of getting the tubes and whatnot out of your body even if it causes the other person to die?

Can you not decide whether or not someone lives or dies?
Yes you can, maybe one day a week you make a choice that might mean starvation or possibly death for someone.
By not donating to help organizations you kill or have people starve.

You decide whether or not the leaukemia hit child dies because they need your bone marrow, by your morals you should give the child your bone marrow in a transplant, legally you can not be forced.

Legally unless you are a donor no one can use your organs even after your death. Organs that might save lives, you can with hold even in death.

I actually did prove a zygote/fetus is a human and a person on the page before this gonk
I'll link it since it is kind of long: http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?page=72&t=11582937#616556626

Your arguement here doesn't concern the arguement of whether or not the zygote/fetus is actually breaking the law gonk
The zygote/fetus isn't breaking the law. Like I said, if a baby accidentally stabbed and killed their mother while playing a knife the baby would not be charged with murder, right? There is no malse in the action of using someones bodily integrity. The fetus has no control over the action, thus the fetus isn't breaking the law. The mother, is in fact, killing a human, which is against the law.

A baby accidentally killing its mother with a knife... Hmmm, babies are cognitive beings and yet have not developed enough to realize what they are doing?

By law, a fetus is not a person nor a citizen of the US, as stated in the 14th Amendment, as you have to be born or naturalized to considered a citizen.

Yes, the fetus is human, but so is cancer, so why isn't it wrong to kill off cancer? Cancer has no control over what it does, why is it okay to kill it? And please refer to McFall v. Shimp, because a fetus is infringing on bodily rights and as thus can be removed if I don't want it using me, if it dies, oh well, thus assuming a fetus is a person.

because, you don't choose to get cancer, and you don't "catch" pregnancy.

You can't compair cancer to humans. Humans actually have laws protecting them. All I am saying is that since fetuses/zygotes are in fact human they juristically have the right to life 3nodding

[divineseraph]

and with that, i must leave... good job beatrix, i'm glad you didn't kill your child in his or her earlier stages.

[CAPTAIN Plixy[Stix]]

divineseraph

[I am teh Haruka]

divineseraph

Crystallyne Vixen

Yeah she gave birth to a child, and he's STILL giving her a hard time.

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.

well, it puts abortion into perspective... given time, it is not merely a clump of cells, but a living human

The difference is that...

Beatrix wanted it!

If it's wanted, they'll care. If it's unwanted, they won't.

And people actually think about the present. Not the future. In the present, it's a clump of cells and that's when it's okay to abort.

yes, but the future will be the present in due time.

You completely missed the point.

No one is going to wait for the fetus to be born if it's unwanted. No one is going to even want to go through pregnancy is it's unwanted.

[_C r y s t a l_RB]

[I am teh Haruka]

Crystallyne Vixen

I will personally learn the best technique for coathanger abortions and offer my skills for free. 3nodding

What about a $1.00 fee?

XD At least you get paid for helping people.

You see I'm going to try and be like Seraph. I'm going to try and help lives for free, because that guarantees me into that (ficticious in my mind) place called heaven. I'm so divine, and wonderful. rolleyes

[Moniquill]

Crystallyne Vixen

LadyDarcia

divineseraph

caela_rue

divineseraph

but it's not punishment.

Let's get this straight: You say that women should be forced to carry a fetus to term, solely because they chose to have sex, regardless of whether or not they can afford the prenatal care-not to mention the hospital stay or even the next eighteen years-or their own morals standings on the matter, correct?

If that's not punishment, then I'm the queen of Sheba.

hello your majesty.

Ya know, even if abortion is made illegal, we're going to have a great many pregnant women hiding behind buildings having abortions with coat hangers and broken soda bottles.

I will personally learn the best technique for coathanger abortions and offer my skills for free. 3nodding

Oooh, who wants crazy herb lore? Because Blue Cohosh in conjunction with Pennyroyal tea has historically proven damned effective in the early stages of pregnancy.

[CAPTAIN Plixy[Stix]]

divineseraph

and with that, i must leave... good job beatrix, i'm glad you didn't kill your child in his or her earlier stages.

Do you even know Beatrix?

Didn't she say that in the begining she didn't want it? But then later changed her mind?

[_C r y s t a l_RB]

Moniquill

Crystallyne Vixen

LadyDarcia

divineseraph

caela_rue

divineseraph

but it's not punishment.

Let's get this straight: You say that women should be forced to carry a fetus to term, solely because they chose to have sex, regardless of whether or not they can afford the prenatal care-not to mention the hospital stay or even the next eighteen years-or their own morals standings on the matter, correct?

If that's not punishment, then I'm the queen of Sheba.

hello your majesty.

Ya know, even if abortion is made illegal, we're going to have a great many pregnant women hiding behind buildings having abortions with coat hangers and broken soda bottles.

I will personally learn the best technique for coathanger abortions and offer my skills for free. 3nodding

Oooh, who wants crazy herb lore? Because Blue Cohosh in conjunction with Pennyroyal tea has historically proven damned effective in the early stages of pregnancy.

I also have access to arithrotec at work. I guess if times were trying, I could take some and allow some women to have medicinal abortions.

[CAPTAIN Plixy[Stix]]

Moniquill

Crystallyne Vixen

LadyDarcia

divineseraph

caela_rue

divineseraph

but it's not punishment.

Let's get this straight: You say that women should be forced to carry a fetus to term, solely because they chose to have sex, regardless of whether or not they can afford the prenatal care-not to mention the hospital stay or even the next eighteen years-or their own morals standings on the matter, correct?

If that's not punishment, then I'm the queen of Sheba.

hello your majesty.

Ya know, even if abortion is made illegal, we're going to have a great many pregnant women hiding behind buildings having abortions with coat hangers and broken soda bottles.

I will personally learn the best technique for coathanger abortions and offer my skills for free. 3nodding

Oooh, who wants crazy herb lore? Because Blue Cohosh in conjunction with Pennyroyal tea has historically proven damned effective in the early stages of pregnancy.

And then after our afternoon tea, we all can go to the amusement park for some roller coasters!