The 2nd Amendment and the 13th

[The Herald of War]

YahuShalum

The Herald of War

YahuShalum

False Dichotomy

Kaltros

If gun control doesn't infringe on the right to keep and bear arms, what does it do?

Do you still have the right to bear arms, even with gun control? Yea. So now your rights haven't been infringed upon, they're been modified.

Define Infringe:


1.
transitive verb disobey or disregard something: to fail to obey a law or regulation or observe the terms of an agreement
2.
transitive and intransitive verb encroach on somebody's rights or property: to take over land, rights, privileges, or activities that belong to somebody else, especially in a minor or gradual way.

Our right to be able to secure the freedom of our state is being gradually taken away. We're supposed to be able to muster up as the people (Not as government sanctioned military) and rid ourselves of tyrants both foreign and domestic (We won't be able to do that with bolt action rifles and ten clip magazines if the Chinese invade). Sorry they are infringing on our right by "Modifying" our inalienable right. Inalienable:
1.
impossible to take away: not able to be transferred or taken away, e.g. because of being protected by law


When they force us to register and when we don't they take them away and make them non-transferable to our own kin that infringes on our inalienable right. When we can't afford to register our guns or afford to buy liability insurance on them. (Like California is attempting) That is infringement.

Nope. You'd have to establish what 'the right of the people to keep and bear arms' means exactly to determine that. If I'm only allowed muskets then I certainly do have the right to keep and bear arms. So the question is what is the original scope. Or perhaps better, what is a reasonable scope as the original didn't refer to our modern weapons. It doesn't say ALL arms, just arms. I could say you have the same right to bear arms they did in the past if I let you have a musket. That's what they had, right? It's easily open to interpretation.

Look into civilians owning cannons back then. Also, Blackwater: a private civilian ran organization of mercenaries operating out of the United States. Seems money can buy you anything. So I will say yes if you have the money you could own a nuke. Rich people own 50 cal machine guns. Not like they're using those to shoot people. This is class warfare, these suggested regulations won't effect the rich only the poor. Not like a poor person could ever own an Apache helicopter, or a suitcase nuke. (I'm taking an extremist point but it's practically true, have enough money, buy out congress, get your actual military weapons)

Perhaps you're not bright enough to consider the alternative that I do not think people should be owning 50 cal machine guns etc. And you show how out of touch you are with reality to if you really believe people ought to be allowed to own a nuke. The level of destruction will inevitably be such that it's sole purpose is murder.

Quote:

The original scope is to be able to defend yourself from the government. Take the Declaration of Independence into account.

Do I give a ********? Nope. Does the law? Nope.

[Suicidesoldier#1]

I'm for sensible gun laws.

Since an assault weapons ban isn't sensible I'm not for it.


Number one, it really is only banning guns that look like assault rifles. Since assault rifles are already illegal the current establishment in laws is pretty stupid.

Number two it wants to remove adjustable stocks, pistol grips, and barrel shrouds, which keep people from burning themselves.


The more draconic current laws call for removing any kind of grip you can hold on to (like a thumbhole stock), or any 1/3 of these, which is insane.

Why the hell does making a gun easier to hold on to, not burn yourself, and more adjustable so you can aim it correctly, somehow make it more dangerous? A criminal is not going to care. A regular person trying to defend themselves would care who they're aiming at and if they get burned and other things.


I understand the more than 10 round magazine argument, but it's wrong.

Criminals usually use magazines under 10 rounds, since they're smaller and more concealable. Larger, more powerful guns are seldom used due to their size making criminals targets and their louder noises making more people aware of your presence, and thus more likely to get caught. If anything, you should ban magazines under 10 rounds, so anyone could have a 1 shot pocket pistol that they snuck into their boot and kill someone, where as a basic pat down would reveal an Ak-47 or something, or hell stick out of their pants pocket. You can't hide an Ak-47 in your waste band.

[Suicidesoldier#1]

False Dichotomy

Suicidesoldier#1

YahuShalum

False Dichotomy

YahuShalum

False Dichotomy

Owning firearms isn't going to protect you from a military. Not in these days. "Sir, he's got an AR15, permission to fire mortars?"

I don't know what kind of delusional fantasy you people seem to have about what a hostile military takeover of a country would look like, but your guns won't mean crap. Citizens would be issued an ultimatum, evacuate the area or die. If you don't leave, you get bombed. If you do leave, they can see any weapons you might have, and then you also get bombed, or simply surrounded.

Military operations aren't lead by idiots. If this fantasy were to somehow become real, there would be no resistance, merely wishful thinking.

So you'd rather be controlled then stand for your principles.(You're telling me you will never fight for what you believe in, and would rather give up) Asymmetric warfare Where there is a will there is a way. You shouldn't give up before trying.

I like living. And you don't know what my principles are. I already live in a world who's principles I disagree with. Think I should start killing people?

What's your line in the sand then. When are YOU willing to fight with violence in self-defense. Will you be walked into a camp for let's say being atheist? Or will you grab a damn ar-15 and shoot those attempting to take you away. Or will you walk quietly to your death. There are lines in the sand. Notice how us pro-gunners have yet to start a revolt. Tomorrow might be different though. I pray we stay strong but there are going to be rallies at state capitals. And if shots are fired that might be a tipping point. We generally believe in self-defense. Let's hope there aren't any people willing to provoke violence on the 8th. (Which is actually today.) I want to avoid violence as much as possible. But there is a line in the sand for many right now. Now what is your line in the sand when you're going to wish you had a gun. Do you even support gun control? Or are you just playing devils advocate for sport and debate.

I'll admit this is getting a tad mellow dramatic. xp

It's spelled melodramatic.

I know what I said.

[Azkeel]

The Herald of War

YahuShalum

The Herald of War

YahuShalum

False Dichotomy

Do you still have the right to bear arms, even with gun control? Yea. So now your rights haven't been infringed upon, they're been modified.

Define Infringe:


1.
transitive verb disobey or disregard something: to fail to obey a law or regulation or observe the terms of an agreement
2.
transitive and intransitive verb encroach on somebody's rights or property: to take over land, rights, privileges, or activities that belong to somebody else, especially in a minor or gradual way.

Our right to be able to secure the freedom of our state is being gradually taken away. We're supposed to be able to muster up as the people (Not as government sanctioned military) and rid ourselves of tyrants both foreign and domestic (We won't be able to do that with bolt action rifles and ten clip magazines if the Chinese invade). Sorry they are infringing on our right by "Modifying" our inalienable right. Inalienable:
1.
impossible to take away: not able to be transferred or taken away, e.g. because of being protected by law


When they force us to register and when we don't they take them away and make them non-transferable to our own kin that infringes on our inalienable right. When we can't afford to register our guns or afford to buy liability insurance on them. (Like California is attempting) That is infringement.

Nope. You'd have to establish what 'the right of the people to keep and bear arms' means exactly to determine that. If I'm only allowed muskets then I certainly do have the right to keep and bear arms. So the question is what is the original scope. Or perhaps better, what is a reasonable scope as the original didn't refer to our modern weapons. It doesn't say ALL arms, just arms. I could say you have the same right to bear arms they did in the past if I let you have a musket. That's what they had, right? It's easily open to interpretation.

Look into civilians owning cannons back then. Also, Blackwater: a private civilian ran organization of mercenaries operating out of the United States. Seems money can buy you anything. So I will say yes if you have the money you could own a nuke. Rich people own 50 cal machine guns. Not like they're using those to shoot people. This is class warfare, these suggested regulations won't effect the rich only the poor. Not like a poor person could ever own an Apache helicopter, or a suitcase nuke. (I'm taking an extremist point but it's practically true, have enough money, buy out congress, get your actual military weapons)

Perhaps you're not bright enough to consider the alternative that I do not think people should be owning 50 cal machine guns etc. And you show how out of touch you are with reality to if you really believe people ought to be allowed to own a nuke. The level of destruction will inevitably be such that it's sole purpose is murder.

Quote:

The original scope is to be able to defend yourself from the government. Take the Declaration of Independence into account.

Do I give a ********? Nope. Does the law? Nope.

Did I say we should be allowed to? Or is your reading comprehension that limited?

[Azkeel]

Suicidesoldier#1

YahuShalum

False Dichotomy

YahuShalum

False Dichotomy

Owning firearms isn't going to protect you from a military. Not in these days. "Sir, he's got an AR15, permission to fire mortars?"

I don't know what kind of delusional fantasy you people seem to have about what a hostile military takeover of a country would look like, but your guns won't mean crap. Citizens would be issued an ultimatum, evacuate the area or die. If you don't leave, you get bombed. If you do leave, they can see any weapons you might have, and then you also get bombed, or simply surrounded.

Military operations aren't lead by idiots. If this fantasy were to somehow become real, there would be no resistance, merely wishful thinking.

So you'd rather be controlled then stand for your principles.(You're telling me you will never fight for what you believe in, and would rather give up) Asymmetric warfare Where there is a will there is a way. You shouldn't give up before trying.

I like living. And you don't know what my principles are. I already live in a world who's principles I disagree with. Think I should start killing people?

What's your line in the sand then. When are YOU willing to fight with violence in self-defense. Will you be walked into a camp for let's say being atheist? Or will you grab a damn ar-15 and shoot those attempting to take you away. Or will you walk quietly to your death. There are lines in the sand. Notice how us pro-gunners have yet to start a revolt. Tomorrow might be different though. I pray we stay strong but there are going to be rallies at state capitals. And if shots are fired that might be a tipping point. We generally believe in self-defense. Let's hope there aren't any people willing to provoke violence on the 8th. (Which is actually today.) I want to avoid violence as much as possible. But there is a line in the sand for many right now. Now what is your line in the sand when you're going to wish you had a gun. Do you even support gun control? Or are you just playing devils advocate for sport and debate.

I'll admit this is getting a tad mellow dramatic. xp

I honestly want to know what their line is. They don't know mine. They may assume my line in the sand is at gun control but that's assuming since I never said what my line is either. I just understand I would rather be armed and not need it then need it and not be armed.

[Suicidesoldier#1]

YahuShalum

Suicidesoldier#1

YahuShalum

False Dichotomy

YahuShalum

False Dichotomy

Owning firearms isn't going to protect you from a military. Not in these days. "Sir, he's got an AR15, permission to fire mortars?"

I don't know what kind of delusional fantasy you people seem to have about what a hostile military takeover of a country would look like, but your guns won't mean crap. Citizens would be issued an ultimatum, evacuate the area or die. If you don't leave, you get bombed. If you do leave, they can see any weapons you might have, and then you also get bombed, or simply surrounded.

Military operations aren't lead by idiots. If this fantasy were to somehow become real, there would be no resistance, merely wishful thinking.

So you'd rather be controlled then stand for your principles.(You're telling me you will never fight for what you believe in, and would rather give up) Asymmetric warfare Where there is a will there is a way. You shouldn't give up before trying.

I like living. And you don't know what my principles are. I already live in a world who's principles I disagree with. Think I should start killing people?

What's your line in the sand then. When are YOU willing to fight with violence in self-defense. Will you be walked into a camp for let's say being atheist? Or will you grab a damn ar-15 and shoot those attempting to take you away. Or will you walk quietly to your death. There are lines in the sand. Notice how us pro-gunners have yet to start a revolt. Tomorrow might be different though. I pray we stay strong but there are going to be rallies at state capitals. And if shots are fired that might be a tipping point. We generally believe in self-defense. Let's hope there aren't any people willing to provoke violence on the 8th. (Which is actually today.) I want to avoid violence as much as possible. But there is a line in the sand for many right now. Now what is your line in the sand when you're going to wish you had a gun. Do you even support gun control? Or are you just playing devils advocate for sport and debate.

I'll admit this is getting a tad mellow dramatic. xp

I honestly want to know what their line is. They don't know mine. They may assume my line in the sand is at gun control but that's assuming since I never said what my line is either. I just understand I would rather be armed and not need it then need it and not be armed.

I agree, and while I agree I want sensible guns laws, this whole thing is a tad silly.

[Aporeia]

YahuShalum

False Dichotomy

YahuShalum

False Dichotomy

YahuShalum

You're right BUT.

This is the declaration of independence.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Now add in the second amendment. They placed it there for a reason. It is there for the people not the state to be able to take out a tyrannical government. We have to keep everything in context. What's your line in the sand? When would you support an armed revolution or would you always trust in the government no matter how poorly they treat you. Now when your line in the sand get's crossed would you be wanting your firearms? What if China invades? Will you welcome them with open arms or will you wish to have a firearm that can match their firepower and give you an edge. This is a personal choice and you may be willing to handle a more tyrannical government hell you might promote a communist state like China and agree with forced abortions of females and a one child policy. But if you don't, are you willing to fight against it? And if you're ever willing to fight, we both know you'll want good weapons able to even the odds more. Us being pro-gun is in support of your freedoms as well as ours. Sorry that it's our line in the sand because once they get the guns governments can do as they wish.

Owning firearms isn't going to protect you from a military. Not in these days. "Sir, he's got an AR15, permission to fire mortars?"

I don't know what kind of delusional fantasy you people seem to have about what a hostile military takeover of a country would look like, but your guns won't mean crap. Citizens would be issued an ultimatum, evacuate the area or die. If you don't leave, you get bombed. If you do leave, they can see any weapons you might have, and then you also get bombed, or simply surrounded.

Military operations aren't lead by idiots. If this fantasy were to somehow become real, there would be no resistance, merely wishful thinking.

So you'd rather be controlled then stand for your principles.(You're telling me you will never fight for what you believe in, and would rather give up) Asymmetric warfare Where there is a will there is a way. You shouldn't give up before trying.

I like living. And you don't know what my principles are. I already live in a world who's principles I disagree with. Think I should start killing people?

What's your line in the sand then. When are YOU willing to fight with violence in self-defense.

To save my life?

Quote:

Will you be walked into a camp for let's say being atheist?

Well, that would be morbidly inaccurate, but allow me to humor you. If I'm assaulted by a group of men trying to take me anywhere, I'll slit their throats without hesitation. If I can run, then I'll run instead. If I can do neither, I'll comply.

Quote:

Notice how us pro-gunners have yet to start a revolt.

You say pro-gun as if we're all anti-gun. This is false.

Quote:

Tomorrow might be different though. I pray we stay strong but there are going to be rallies at state capitals. And if shots are fired that might be a tipping point.

If said first shot is fired, I can guarantee it will be by some skinhead redfaced asswagon getting too emotional about how he can't defend his home from da guvrnmint that only wants his guns because he's a convicted felon.

Quote:

Now what is your line in the sand when you're going to wish you had a gun. Do you even support gun control? Or are you just playing devils advocate for sport and debate.

I don't support the exact style of gun control that is being proposed by democrats, no. I would, however choose it over what republicans are frothing at the mouth over trying to keep.

I'm for much stricter regulations than the democrats would ever jump on.

[black_wing_angel]

Jacque De Molay

I've never really taken a stance on the issue of gun control. I think that weaponry can be dangerous but you also have to take into account the person behind the gun.

Recently, a gun enthusiast at my local library said "If you want to take away the 2nd Amendment, we might as well throw away the 13th and allow slavery because we can just throw away amendments!"

I was instantly disgusted with the casual tone he took while discussing the matter of human trafficking as if he felt a sense of nostalgia for the good old days when you could own people as property.

The hell is wrong with people?

I'm really not sure how to approach the deconstruction of his claims.

I think you misread his point. He's not salivating at the "nostalgia" of a practice he has absolutely not possibly lived to experience for himself. He's saying that if we can take away 1 amendment, then what's the point in even having them, at all? Farewell women voters. So long, free speech and assembly. Adios right against self incrimination, and rights to attorney, even if you can't afford one. Bon voyage, protection against policemen bursting down your door, looking for "anything bad", on a whim, "just because we can".

And yes, Goodbye freedom against being forced into uncompensated labor, and all of your OSHA and Equal Opportunity rights.

Basically, Goodbye Angel Bowfinger from Bumfuk, Egypt. Hello drone no. 2305834897623489723335.

[Suicidesoldier#1]

False Dichotomy

YahuShalum

False Dichotomy

YahuShalum

False Dichotomy

Owning firearms isn't going to protect you from a military. Not in these days. "Sir, he's got an AR15, permission to fire mortars?"

I don't know what kind of delusional fantasy you people seem to have about what a hostile military takeover of a country would look like, but your guns won't mean crap. Citizens would be issued an ultimatum, evacuate the area or die. If you don't leave, you get bombed. If you do leave, they can see any weapons you might have, and then you also get bombed, or simply surrounded.

Military operations aren't lead by idiots. If this fantasy were to somehow become real, there would be no resistance, merely wishful thinking.

So you'd rather be controlled then stand for your principles.(You're telling me you will never fight for what you believe in, and would rather give up) Asymmetric warfare Where there is a will there is a way. You shouldn't give up before trying.

I like living. And you don't know what my principles are. I already live in a world who's principles I disagree with. Think I should start killing people?

What's your line in the sand then. When are YOU willing to fight with violence in self-defense.

To save my life?

Quote:

Will you be walked into a camp for let's say being atheist?

Well, that would be morbidly inaccurate, but allow me to humor you. If I'm assaulted by a group of men trying to take me anywhere, I'll slit their throats without hesitation. If I can run, then I'll run instead. If I can do neither, I'll comply.

Quote:

Notice how us pro-gunners have yet to start a revolt.

You say pro-gun as if we're all anti-gun. This is false.

Quote:

Tomorrow might be different though. I pray we stay strong but there are going to be rallies at state capitals. And if shots are fired that might be a tipping point.

If said first shot is fired, I can guarantee it will be by some skinhead redfaced asswagon getting too emotional about how he can't defend his home from da guvrnmint that only wants his guns because he's a convicted felon.

Quote:

Now what is your line in the sand when you're going to wish you had a gun. Do you even support gun control? Or are you just playing devils advocate for sport and debate.

I don't support the exact style of gun control that is being proposed by democrats, no. I would, however choose it over what republicans are frothing at the mouth over trying to keep.

I'm for much stricter regulations than the democrats would ever jump on.

Right, so when they have guns pointed at you you will magically slit their throats with your magic kung fu powers?

[Aporeia]

Suicidesoldier#1

False Dichotomy

YahuShalum

False Dichotomy

YahuShalum

So you'd rather be controlled then stand for your principles.(You're telling me you will never fight for what you believe in, and would rather give up) Asymmetric warfare Where there is a will there is a way. You shouldn't give up before trying.

I like living. And you don't know what my principles are. I already live in a world who's principles I disagree with. Think I should start killing people?

What's your line in the sand then. When are YOU willing to fight with violence in self-defense.

To save my life?

Quote:

Will you be walked into a camp for let's say being atheist?

Well, that would be morbidly inaccurate, but allow me to humor you. If I'm assaulted by a group of men trying to take me anywhere, I'll slit their throats without hesitation. If I can run, then I'll run instead. If I can do neither, I'll comply.

Quote:

Notice how us pro-gunners have yet to start a revolt.

You say pro-gun as if we're all anti-gun. This is false.

Quote:

Tomorrow might be different though. I pray we stay strong but there are going to be rallies at state capitals. And if shots are fired that might be a tipping point.

If said first shot is fired, I can guarantee it will be by some skinhead redfaced asswagon getting too emotional about how he can't defend his home from da guvrnmint that only wants his guns because he's a convicted felon.

Quote:

Now what is your line in the sand when you're going to wish you had a gun. Do you even support gun control? Or are you just playing devils advocate for sport and debate.

I don't support the exact style of gun control that is being proposed by democrats, no. I would, however choose it over what republicans are frothing at the mouth over trying to keep.

I'm for much stricter regulations than the democrats would ever jump on.

Right, so when they have guns pointed at you you will magically slit their throats with your magic kung fu powers?

No, with a knife. If these imaginary men can even get to me without me knowing, at least. If I had reason to suspect I'd be taken away, I'd be gone long before I was ever a target. If anyone confronted me in that situation it'd be on my terms.

I'm an extremely paranoid person, but even I don't see what our government would have to gain from military takeover. It's so much cheaper to farm humans when they all think they're free.

[Azkeel]

False Dichotomy

YahuShalum

False Dichotomy

YahuShalum

False Dichotomy

Owning firearms isn't going to protect you from a military. Not in these days. "Sir, he's got an AR15, permission to fire mortars?"

I don't know what kind of delusional fantasy you people seem to have about what a hostile military takeover of a country would look like, but your guns won't mean crap. Citizens would be issued an ultimatum, evacuate the area or die. If you don't leave, you get bombed. If you do leave, they can see any weapons you might have, and then you also get bombed, or simply surrounded.

Military operations aren't lead by idiots. If this fantasy were to somehow become real, there would be no resistance, merely wishful thinking.

So you'd rather be controlled then stand for your principles.(You're telling me you will never fight for what you believe in, and would rather give up) Asymmetric warfare Where there is a will there is a way. You shouldn't give up before trying.

I like living. And you don't know what my principles are. I already live in a world who's principles I disagree with. Think I should start killing people?

What's your line in the sand then. When are YOU willing to fight with violence in self-defense.

To save my life?

Quote:

Will you be walked into a camp for let's say being atheist?

Well, that would be morbidly inaccurate, but allow me to humor you. If I'm assaulted by a group of men trying to take me anywhere, I'll slit their throats without hesitation. If I can run, then I'll run instead. If I can do neither, I'll comply.

Quote:

Notice how us pro-gunners have yet to start a revolt.

You say pro-gun as if we're all anti-gun. This is false.

Quote:

Tomorrow might be different though. I pray we stay strong but there are going to be rallies at state capitals. And if shots are fired that might be a tipping point.

If said first shot is fired, I can guarantee it will be by some skinhead redfaced asswagon getting too emotional about how he can't defend his home from da guvrnmint that only wants his guns because he's a convicted felon.

Quote:

Now what is your line in the sand when you're going to wish you had a gun. Do you even support gun control? Or are you just playing devils advocate for sport and debate.

I don't support the exact style of gun control that is being proposed by democrats, no. I would, however choose it over what republicans are frothing at the mouth over trying to keep.

I'm for much stricter regulations than the democrats would ever jump on.

Let's talk about first shot. Kent state massacre.

Now what if said first shot comes from the crowd but is an agent working to get gun control.

Sorry for looking like I implied you're anti-gun.

Now let's take you out of the equation and focus on only guns and not slitting throats with a knife. When would you be willing to pick up a gun and defend others. Let's say worse case scenario where you'd want something to get the job done. My point is you do have that line that once crossed you will want a weapon powerful enough to defeat your foes, or at least level the playing field just a little to your advantage.

[Azkeel]

False Dichotomy

Suicidesoldier#1

False Dichotomy

YahuShalum

False Dichotomy

I like living. And you don't know what my principles are. I already live in a world who's principles I disagree with. Think I should start killing people?

What's your line in the sand then. When are YOU willing to fight with violence in self-defense.

To save my life?

Quote:

Will you be walked into a camp for let's say being atheist?

Well, that would be morbidly inaccurate, but allow me to humor you. If I'm assaulted by a group of men trying to take me anywhere, I'll slit their throats without hesitation. If I can run, then I'll run instead. If I can do neither, I'll comply.

Quote:

Notice how us pro-gunners have yet to start a revolt.

You say pro-gun as if we're all anti-gun. This is false.

Quote:

Tomorrow might be different though. I pray we stay strong but there are going to be rallies at state capitals. And if shots are fired that might be a tipping point.

If said first shot is fired, I can guarantee it will be by some skinhead redfaced asswagon getting too emotional about how he can't defend his home from da guvrnmint that only wants his guns because he's a convicted felon.

Quote:

Now what is your line in the sand when you're going to wish you had a gun. Do you even support gun control? Or are you just playing devils advocate for sport and debate.

I don't support the exact style of gun control that is being proposed by democrats, no. I would, however choose it over what republicans are frothing at the mouth over trying to keep.

I'm for much stricter regulations than the democrats would ever jump on.

Right, so when they have guns pointed at you you will magically slit their throats with your magic kung fu powers?

No, with a knife. If these imaginary men can even get to me without me knowing, at least. If I had reason to suspect I'd be taken away, I'd be gone long before I was ever a target. If anyone confronted me in that situation it'd be on my terms.

I'm an extremely paranoid person, but even I don't see what our government would have to gain from military takeover. It's so much cheaper to farm humans when they all think they're free.

What if you're preparing to liquidate the nation and give it over to another force? You'd want the national civilians to be disarmed as this change happens. What if your goal is to depopulate the people because too many are eaters and produce nothing. America seems to be producing nothing at all, so what's to farm here when you can introduce far more productive individuals willing to work a slaves wage.

[Aporeia]

YahuShalum

False Dichotomy

YahuShalum

False Dichotomy

YahuShalum

So you'd rather be controlled then stand for your principles.(You're telling me you will never fight for what you believe in, and would rather give up) Asymmetric warfare Where there is a will there is a way. You shouldn't give up before trying.

I like living. And you don't know what my principles are. I already live in a world who's principles I disagree with. Think I should start killing people?

What's your line in the sand then. When are YOU willing to fight with violence in self-defense.

To save my life?

Quote:

Will you be walked into a camp for let's say being atheist?

Well, that would be morbidly inaccurate, but allow me to humor you. If I'm assaulted by a group of men trying to take me anywhere, I'll slit their throats without hesitation. If I can run, then I'll run instead. If I can do neither, I'll comply.

Quote:

Notice how us pro-gunners have yet to start a revolt.

You say pro-gun as if we're all anti-gun. This is false.

Quote:

Tomorrow might be different though. I pray we stay strong but there are going to be rallies at state capitals. And if shots are fired that might be a tipping point.

If said first shot is fired, I can guarantee it will be by some skinhead redfaced asswagon getting too emotional about how he can't defend his home from da guvrnmint that only wants his guns because he's a convicted felon.

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Now what is your line in the sand when you're going to wish you had a gun. Do you even support gun control? Or are you just playing devils advocate for sport and debate.

I don't support the exact style of gun control that is being proposed by democrats, no. I would, however choose it over what republicans are frothing at the mouth over trying to keep.

I'm for much stricter regulations than the democrats would ever jump on.

Let's talk about first shot. Kent state massacre.

Now what if said first shot comes from the crowd but is an agent working to get gun control.

You're going to have to remove your tin hat, sir.

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Now let's take you out of the equation and focus on only guns and not slitting throats with a knife. When would you be willing to pick up a gun and defend others. Let's say worse case scenario where you'd want something to get the job done. My point is you do have that line that once crossed you will want a weapon powerful enough to defeat your foes, or at least level the playing field just a little to your advantage.

There is no civilian weapon that can contend with our military if they're coming to kill you (for some irrational reason?)

Excuse me, if that kind of thing were to happen, and I'm using the word IF very strongly, fighting is not the answer. Not being there is the answer.

[Aporeia]

YahuShalum

False Dichotomy

Suicidesoldier#1

False Dichotomy

YahuShalum

What's your line in the sand then. When are YOU willing to fight with violence in self-defense.

To save my life?

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Will you be walked into a camp for let's say being atheist?

Well, that would be morbidly inaccurate, but allow me to humor you. If I'm assaulted by a group of men trying to take me anywhere, I'll slit their throats without hesitation. If I can run, then I'll run instead. If I can do neither, I'll comply.

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Notice how us pro-gunners have yet to start a revolt.

You say pro-gun as if we're all anti-gun. This is false.

Quote:

Tomorrow might be different though. I pray we stay strong but there are going to be rallies at state capitals. And if shots are fired that might be a tipping point.

If said first shot is fired, I can guarantee it will be by some skinhead redfaced asswagon getting too emotional about how he can't defend his home from da guvrnmint that only wants his guns because he's a convicted felon.

Quote:

Now what is your line in the sand when you're going to wish you had a gun. Do you even support gun control? Or are you just playing devils advocate for sport and debate.

I don't support the exact style of gun control that is being proposed by democrats, no. I would, however choose it over what republicans are frothing at the mouth over trying to keep.

I'm for much stricter regulations than the democrats would ever jump on.

Right, so when they have guns pointed at you you will magically slit their throats with your magic kung fu powers?

No, with a knife. If these imaginary men can even get to me without me knowing, at least. If I had reason to suspect I'd be taken away, I'd be gone long before I was ever a target. If anyone confronted me in that situation it'd be on my terms.

I'm an extremely paranoid person, but even I don't see what our government would have to gain from military takeover. It's so much cheaper to farm humans when they all think they're free.

What if you're preparing to liquidate the nation and give it over to another force? You'd want the national civilians to be disarmed as this change happens. What if your goal is to depopulate the people because too many are eaters and produce nothing. America seems to be producing nothing at all, so what's to farm here when you can introduce far more productive individuals willing to work a slaves wage.

Military enforcement costs way more than letting the church of Coca Cola and the synagogue of McDonalds enthrall their worshippers. Why spend trillions to keep citizens in line militarily, when you can just let the free market enslave them, and profit from their greed and ignorance?

[Suicidesoldier#1]

False Dichotomy

Suicidesoldier#1

False Dichotomy

YahuShalum

False Dichotomy

I like living. And you don't know what my principles are. I already live in a world who's principles I disagree with. Think I should start killing people?

What's your line in the sand then. When are YOU willing to fight with violence in self-defense.

To save my life?

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Will you be walked into a camp for let's say being atheist?

Well, that would be morbidly inaccurate, but allow me to humor you. If I'm assaulted by a group of men trying to take me anywhere, I'll slit their throats without hesitation. If I can run, then I'll run instead. If I can do neither, I'll comply.

Quote:

Notice how us pro-gunners have yet to start a revolt.

You say pro-gun as if we're all anti-gun. This is false.

Quote:

Tomorrow might be different though. I pray we stay strong but there are going to be rallies at state capitals. And if shots are fired that might be a tipping point.

If said first shot is fired, I can guarantee it will be by some skinhead redfaced asswagon getting too emotional about how he can't defend his home from da guvrnmint that only wants his guns because he's a convicted felon.

Quote:

Now what is your line in the sand when you're going to wish you had a gun. Do you even support gun control? Or are you just playing devils advocate for sport and debate.

I don't support the exact style of gun control that is being proposed by democrats, no. I would, however choose it over what republicans are frothing at the mouth over trying to keep.

I'm for much stricter regulations than the democrats would ever jump on.

Right, so when they have guns pointed at you you will magically slit their throats with your magic kung fu powers?

No, with a knife. If these imaginary men can even get to me without me knowing, at least. If I had reason to suspect I'd be taken away, I'd be gone long before I was ever a target. If anyone confronted me in that situation it'd be on my terms.

I'm an extremely paranoid person, but even I don't see what our government would have to gain from military takeover. It's so much cheaper to farm humans when they all think they're free.

Right.

So magic kunk fu ninja powers against guys with guns, wearing body armor, that can easily stop knives; I guess you got them. rolleyes