Testing babies

[-PhantomRain_ InariReyne-]

If we could somehow test if a fetus was living, and it showed itself not to be living, would the pro lifers stop harrassing pregnant people that go into clinics?

sen⋅tient  /ˈsɛnʃənt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sen-shuhnt] Show IPA
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–adjective 1. having the power of perception by the senses; conscious.
2. characterized by sensation and consciousness.


discuss

[Lumanny the Space Jew]

Even newborn babies aren't sentient; They aren't self- aware.

[Bob Motley]

Lumanny the Space Jew

Even newborn babies aren't sentient; They aren't self- aware.

Yeah they are. I was. I remember.

[-PhantomRain_ InariReyne-]

Lumanny the Space Jew

Even newborn babies aren't sentient; They aren't self- aware.

O-o if that's true then what's the problem with late term abortions? then why not just kill the baby at any time.

[Lumanny the Space Jew]

-PhantomRain_ InariReyne-

Lumanny the Space Jew

Even newborn babies aren't sentient; They aren't self- aware.

O-o if that's true then what's the problem with late term abortions? then why not just kill the baby at any time.

Because it is alive then. Early abortions, it's just a non-sentient hunk of cells. Late abortions, it's a non-sentient living creature.

[-PhantomRain_ InariReyne-]

Lumanny the Space Jew

-PhantomRain_ InariReyne-

Lumanny the Space Jew

Even newborn babies aren't sentient; They aren't self- aware.

O-o if that's true then what's the problem with late term abortions? then why not just kill the baby at any time.

Because it is alive then. Early abortions, it's just a non-sentient hunk of cells. Late abortions, it's a non-sentient living creature.

*rolls eyes*

than change the op to 'if there was a way to prove if it is alive or not'


seems to me one of the main reasons pro lifers are against abortion is because you can never tell the exact time that something becomes alive or not.

so if we had some way to test it, some way to give an exact yes or no... ect ect

[epionine]

Lumanny the Space Jew

-PhantomRain_ InariReyne-

Lumanny the Space Jew

Even newborn babies aren't sentient; They aren't self- aware.

O-o if that's true then what's the problem with late term abortions? then why not just kill the baby at any time.

Because it is alive then. Early abortions, it's just a non-sentient hunk of cells. Late abortions, it's a non-sentient living creature.

But that hunk of cells has seperate dna from its mother, and is therefore a seperate human blob. Of course, at that point it would be no different than having a blob of human flesh inside of you that just happens to have a seperate genetic code, so it becomes a grey area.

[epionine]

The question isn't "whn does the fetus become alive", because it becomes alive and seperate of its mother at conception, when its unique genetic code is determined and it begins splitting cells. The question is more "when does this thing become more than a lump of human cells?" After all, the skin cells covering your body and a human being 30 minutes after conception are pretty much the same thing. It's a blob of cells, yes. But it's not yet a baby.

I personally am of the opinion that the same way we determine life as ending when the heart stops beating, life should begin when the heart begins beating. It's really the only compromise that doesn't end in a paradox.

[-PhantomRain_ InariReyne-]

epionine

The question isn't "whn does the fetus become alive", because it becomes alive and seperate of its mother at conception, when its unique genetic code is determined and it begins splitting cells. The question is more "when does this thing become more than a lump of human cells?" After all, the skin cells covering your body and a human being 30 minutes after conception are pretty much the same thing. It's a blob of cells, yes. But it's not yet a baby.

I personally am of the opinion that the same way we determine life as ending when the heart stops beating, life should begin when the heart begins beating. It's really the only compromise that doesn't end in a paradox.

surprisingly simple. Why have I never heard anyone with that point of view before?

[epionine]

-PhantomRain_ InariReyne-

epionine

The question isn't "whn does the fetus become alive", because it becomes alive and seperate of its mother at conception, when its unique genetic code is determined and it begins splitting cells. The question is more "when does this thing become more than a lump of human cells?" After all, the skin cells covering your body and a human being 30 minutes after conception are pretty much the same thing. It's a blob of cells, yes. But it's not yet a baby.

I personally am of the opinion that the same way we determine life as ending when the heart stops beating, life should begin when the heart begins beating. It's really the only compromise that doesn't end in a paradox.

surprisingly simple. Why have I never heard anyone with that point of view before?

Because people try to put morals into it and screw it all up.

[In Flagrante Delicto]

-PhantomRain_ InariReyne-

epionine

The question isn't "whn does the fetus become alive", because it becomes alive and seperate of its mother at conception, when its unique genetic code is determined and it begins splitting cells. The question is more "when does this thing become more than a lump of human cells?" After all, the skin cells covering your body and a human being 30 minutes after conception are pretty much the same thing. It's a blob of cells, yes. But it's not yet a baby.

I personally am of the opinion that the same way we determine life as ending when the heart stops beating, life should begin when the heart begins beating. It's really the only compromise that doesn't end in a paradox.

surprisingly simple. Why have I never heard anyone with that point of view before?

Plenty of people who use birth control, but do not believe in abortion share that view. In virtually all forms of birth control including the morning after pill and other "abortifacient" forms, the heart isn't yet beating.

However, the heart starts beating well before the majority of organ systems are formed, including the brain. So even though the heart is beating, the embryo is in essence "brain dead". The brain is not fully formed until 10-12 weeks.

So the first trimester remains a bit stickier than just the heart beat.

I believe people would still impress what-ifs on fetuses and embryos and even if life could be proven to not be there, many or even most would still oppose abortion.

[BlueCollarJoe]

Lumanny the Space Jew

Even newborn babies aren't sentient; They aren't self- aware.

Neither are most democrats. Can we abort them?

[epionine]

In Flagrante Delicto

-PhantomRain_ InariReyne-

epionine

The question isn't "whn does the fetus become alive", because it becomes alive and seperate of its mother at conception, when its unique genetic code is determined and it begins splitting cells. The question is more "when does this thing become more than a lump of human cells?" After all, the skin cells covering your body and a human being 30 minutes after conception are pretty much the same thing. It's a blob of cells, yes. But it's not yet a baby.

I personally am of the opinion that the same way we determine life as ending when the heart stops beating, life should begin when the heart begins beating. It's really the only compromise that doesn't end in a paradox.

surprisingly simple. Why have I never heard anyone with that point of view before?

Plenty of people who use birth control, but do not believe in abortion share that view. In virtually all forms of birth control including the morning after pill and other "abortifacient" forms, the heart isn't yet beating.

However, the heart starts beating well before the majority of organ systems are formed, including the brain. So even though the heart is beating, the embryo is in essence "brain dead". The brain is not fully formed until 10-12 weeks.

So the first trimester remains a bit stickier than just the heart beat.

I believe people would still impress what-ifs on fetuses and embryos and even if life could be proven to not be there, many or even most would still oppose abortion.

Even an adult human being who is comatose or completely braindead is considered to be alive until the moment his or her heart stops beating. That's why, for the sake of consistancy, I maintain that life starts when the heart starts, and ends when the heart ends.

[Phantomboy411]

for the record, it's always "alive". the argument is whether or not it should be considered a human being.