Tell me it is just and holy to oppose health care reform.

[doctorjackal777]

I'm of the attitude that Health care along with education and public transport are the things that should be completely free to all no matter who you are or where you live.

[EsgarBlackpoxs]

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Cherrath

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Cherrath

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

GunsmithKitten

Not all of us who oppose this bill are opposed to reform.

Hell, I HATE the status quo system we have now. I really do. I'm sick of our mortality being effectively in the hands of an industry that's one of the few left in the 21'st American economy that's allowed to have a MONOPOLY and it being an industry that benefits by denying care instead of providing it.

But a bloated, expensive monostrosity that doesn't address this? No thank you.

How would you help, then? Plz to describe in detail.

I don't think the average gaian is going to be able to come up with a working healthcare system as you probably cannot either. It doesn't mean we should settle for the first available healthcare bill. This is something we need to do carefully and correctly the first time.

How contradictory. Who can? XDD Better we take action than prolong death and dying.

If we rush it and put a bloated bill into state that is inneficient and doesn't help the problem, which depending on how bad it is might not help, then it will be a lot harder to change it. If it's so hard to get people to back it in the first place, think how hard it would be to change it. It's like a math problem: you can rush it and do it wrong and spend 4 times the amount of time going over it checking where you errored or you can work through it carefully.

Exactly what I'm talking about. Boo hoo, you don't want to put forth a little more effort to SAVE LIVES. If it saves ONE LIFE, it's worth it. We can go in and fix it later because that's the beauty of our government: We can edit it.

I see. So, we should ban alcohol in all it's forms too, right?

[EmotionallyInconsistent]

Nonesuch Solo

EmotionallyInconsistent

The Zodikosis

EmotionallyInconsistent

The Zodikosis

Put simply some people just don't want to pay for other people's medical bills through their taxes. Not everyone is completely compassionate to other beings just because they are humans too, in fact most people aren't and don't care if others die.

Sounds like those people need to be near death and helpless... not to learn anything of course. People don't learn, but watching them squirm in pain, knoowing no one will help them would be so funny.

This is the Zodiac speaking...

It is human nature and it's illogical to argue it and unproductive to denounce it as "wrong", because it's still not going to change. In fact, almost everyone does not give a damn what happens to someone they don't know, including you. That's why kids are starving in Africa and the homeless wander the streets cold because no one will take them in because they can't get a house and a job in six months or less, while you sit here complaining about people who should -expect- health care. Torturing them will do absolutely nothing except satisfy your sadistic needs, but of course you've already identified that.

...that is all.

I didn't say I wanted change. I am aware that they are incapable of caring, incapable of empathy. That's why I want them to suffer... if they suffer, then it will be almost as if karma was paid in full.

Is that how karma works?

You can watch and relish people get theirs in the end?

Gee, sounds like a fanfic and not an actual spiritual force...

Just in case you have a reading problem, I said "almost as if"--not actually karma.

[Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST]

Cherrath

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Cherrath

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Cherrath

I don't think the average gaian is going to be able to come up with a working healthcare system as you probably cannot either. It doesn't mean we should settle for the first available healthcare bill. This is something we need to do carefully and correctly the first time.

How contradictory. Who can? XDD Better we take action than prolong death and dying.

If we rush it and put a bloated bill into state that is inneficient and doesn't help the problem, which depending on how bad it is might not help, then it will be a lot harder to change it. If it's so hard to get people to back it in the first place, think how hard it would be to change it. It's like a math problem: you can rush it and do it wrong and spend 4 times the amount of time going over it checking where you errored or you can work through it carefully.

Exactly what I'm talking about. Boo hoo, you don't want to put forth a little more effort to SAVE LIVES. If it saves ONE LIFE, it's worth it. We can go in and fix it later because that's the beauty of our government: We can edit it.

Mmhmm... in the long run, rushing this could cost more lives than taking the time to do it correctly would save in the future. Your logic is flawed.

Could? Hey. Guess what. The future DOESN'T EXIST.

You know what exists? Now. Now exists. And now, people are dying.

Congress rushes nothing. It has been a slow, slow crawl. We have our elected officials on it, though they are no more perfect than we. And they need to do SOMETHING. I would like you to prove to me that more people would die WITH this bill than WITHOUT.

[Nonesuch Solo]

EmotionallyInconsistent

Nonesuch Solo

EmotionallyInconsistent

The Zodikosis

EmotionallyInconsistent

The Zodikosis

Put simply some people just don't want to pay for other people's medical bills through their taxes. Not everyone is completely compassionate to other beings just because they are humans too, in fact most people aren't and don't care if others die.

Sounds like those people need to be near death and helpless... not to learn anything of course. People don't learn, but watching them squirm in pain, knoowing no one will help them would be so funny.

This is the Zodiac speaking...

It is human nature and it's illogical to argue it and unproductive to denounce it as "wrong", because it's still not going to change. In fact, almost everyone does not give a damn what happens to someone they don't know, including you. That's why kids are starving in Africa and the homeless wander the streets cold because no one will take them in because they can't get a house and a job in six months or less, while you sit here complaining about people who should -expect- health care. Torturing them will do absolutely nothing except satisfy your sadistic needs, but of course you've already identified that.

...that is all.

I didn't say I wanted change. I am aware that they are incapable of caring, incapable of empathy. That's why I want them to suffer... if they suffer, then it will be almost as if karma was paid in full.

Is that how karma works?

You can watch and relish people get theirs in the end?

Gee, sounds like a fanfic and not an actual spiritual force...

Just in case you have a reading problem, I said "almost as if"--not actually karma.

It's just amusing that you liken some sick, twisted sort of revenge to the spiritual concept of karma.

[Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST]

EsgarBlackpoxs

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Cherrath

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Cherrath

I don't think the average gaian is going to be able to come up with a working healthcare system as you probably cannot either. It doesn't mean we should settle for the first available healthcare bill. This is something we need to do carefully and correctly the first time.

How contradictory. Who can? XDD Better we take action than prolong death and dying.

If we rush it and put a bloated bill into state that is inneficient and doesn't help the problem, which depending on how bad it is might not help, then it will be a lot harder to change it. If it's so hard to get people to back it in the first place, think how hard it would be to change it. It's like a math problem: you can rush it and do it wrong and spend 4 times the amount of time going over it checking where you errored or you can work through it carefully.

Exactly what I'm talking about. Boo hoo, you don't want to put forth a little more effort to SAVE LIVES. If it saves ONE LIFE, it's worth it. We can go in and fix it later because that's the beauty of our government: We can edit it.

I see. So, we should ban alcohol in all it's forms too, right?

Don't be incitefully stupid. Alcohol is a wonderful substance when used correctly. Anything is a poison when imbibed excessively.

[The Zodikosis]

Nonesuch Solo

EmotionallyInconsistent

Nonesuch Solo

EmotionallyInconsistent

The Zodikosis

This is the Zodiac speaking...

It is human nature and it's illogical to argue it and unproductive to denounce it as "wrong", because it's still not going to change. In fact, almost everyone does not give a damn what happens to someone they don't know, including you. That's why kids are starving in Africa and the homeless wander the streets cold because no one will take them in because they can't get a house and a job in six months or less, while you sit here complaining about people who should -expect- health care. Torturing them will do absolutely nothing except satisfy your sadistic needs, but of course you've already identified that.

...that is all.

I didn't say I wanted change. I am aware that they are incapable of caring, incapable of empathy. That's why I want them to suffer... if they suffer, then it will be almost as if karma was paid in full.

Is that how karma works?

You can watch and relish people get theirs in the end?

Gee, sounds like a fanfic and not an actual spiritual force...

Just in case you have a reading problem, I said "almost as if"--not actually karma.

It's just amusing that you liken some sick, twisted sort of revenge to the spiritual concept of karma.

This is the Zodiac speaking...

Yeah, it does just sound like you want to satisfy your aggressive tendencies regardless of what actually happens.

...that is all.

[Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST]

The Zodikosis

Nonesuch Solo

EmotionallyInconsistent

Nonesuch Solo

EmotionallyInconsistent

The Zodikosis

This is the Zodiac speaking...

It is human nature and it's illogical to argue it and unproductive to denounce it as "wrong", because it's still not going to change. In fact, almost everyone does not give a damn what happens to someone they don't know, including you. That's why kids are starving in Africa and the homeless wander the streets cold because no one will take them in because they can't get a house and a job in six months or less, while you sit here complaining about people who should -expect- health care. Torturing them will do absolutely nothing except satisfy your sadistic needs, but of course you've already identified that.

...that is all.

I didn't say I wanted change. I am aware that they are incapable of caring, incapable of empathy. That's why I want them to suffer... if they suffer, then it will be almost as if karma was paid in full.

Is that how karma works?

You can watch and relish people get theirs in the end?

Gee, sounds like a fanfic and not an actual spiritual force...

Just in case you have a reading problem, I said "almost as if"--not actually karma.

It's just amusing that you liken some sick, twisted sort of revenge to the spiritual concept of karma.

This is the Zodiac speaking...

Yeah, it does just sound like you want to satisfy your aggressive tendencies regardless of what actually happens.

...that is all.

It's something I've struggled with, too. I know, deep down in my heart, that I should not want others to experience the same pain that I, the unemployed, the homeless, addicts, co-dependents, abused, whatever, experience. But when they so blindly ignore it as though it could never happen to them, and that it must be others' fault it happens to them... well... it does incite a bit of anger at them. Even if I know we're all one in the end.

[EsgarBlackpoxs]

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

EsgarBlackpoxs

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Cherrath

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Cherrath

I don't think the average gaian is going to be able to come up with a working healthcare system as you probably cannot either. It doesn't mean we should settle for the first available healthcare bill. This is something we need to do carefully and correctly the first time.

How contradictory. Who can? XDD Better we take action than prolong death and dying.

If we rush it and put a bloated bill into state that is inneficient and doesn't help the problem, which depending on how bad it is might not help, then it will be a lot harder to change it. If it's so hard to get people to back it in the first place, think how hard it would be to change it. It's like a math problem: you can rush it and do it wrong and spend 4 times the amount of time going over it checking where you errored or you can work through it carefully.

Exactly what I'm talking about. Boo hoo, you don't want to put forth a little more effort to SAVE LIVES. If it saves ONE LIFE, it's worth it. We can go in and fix it later because that's the beauty of our government: We can edit it.

I see. So, we should ban alcohol in all it's forms too, right?

Don't be incitefully stupid. Alcohol is a wonderful substance when used correctly. Anything is a poison when imbibed excessively.

But approximately 16,000 people are killed by drunk driving every year. Sounds like getting rid of it would save alot of lives. It's pretty clear that not everyone uses it in moderation.

[black_wing_angel]

You know, it's funny. I read every bit of that, and all I heard was "BAAAAAAAW!"

People die. It's part of life. We can't all be saved. Hell, if we could, the world would become so crowded, that we would have no choice left, but to ENFORCE death, on people who have done no wrong. China comes to mind, doesn't it?

Is that what you want? People to be targeted and killed, through no fault of their own, just for being born into a crowded world? Or is it worse to let all people have a chance to live, and let nature take its course with those who can not afford to live?

You see, ANYONE can present an emotional bullshit charged case, and make the opponent look like a b***h. That's why appeal to emotion is a fallacy.

So, all I see in your argument, is one great big goddamn fallacy.

Good day to you.

Make no mistake, I don't care if they DO reform it, or not. I'm not affected, either way. I just have a really big problem with people producing annoyingly long emotionally charged cases.[/white]

[EmotionallyInconsistent]

The Zodikosis

Nonesuch Solo

EmotionallyInconsistent

Nonesuch Solo

EmotionallyInconsistent

The Zodikosis

This is the Zodiac speaking...

It is human nature and it's illogical to argue it and unproductive to denounce it as "wrong", because it's still not going to change. In fact, almost everyone does not give a damn what happens to someone they don't know, including you. That's why kids are starving in Africa and the homeless wander the streets cold because no one will take them in because they can't get a house and a job in six months or less, while you sit here complaining about people who should -expect- health care. Torturing them will do absolutely nothing except satisfy your sadistic needs, but of course you've already identified that.

...that is all.

I didn't say I wanted change. I am aware that they are incapable of caring, incapable of empathy. That's why I want them to suffer... if they suffer, then it will be almost as if karma was paid in full.

Is that how karma works?

You can watch and relish people get theirs in the end?

Gee, sounds like a fanfic and not an actual spiritual force...

Just in case you have a reading problem, I said "almost as if"--not actually karma.

It's just amusing that you liken some sick, twisted sort of revenge to the spiritual concept of karma.

This is the Zodiac speaking...

Yeah, it does just sound like you want to satisfy your aggressive tendencies regardless of what actually happens.

...that is all.

I do. What made you think I didn't?

[Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST]

EsgarBlackpoxs

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

EsgarBlackpoxs

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Cherrath

If we rush it and put a bloated bill into state that is inneficient and doesn't help the problem, which depending on how bad it is might not help, then it will be a lot harder to change it. If it's so hard to get people to back it in the first place, think how hard it would be to change it. It's like a math problem: you can rush it and do it wrong and spend 4 times the amount of time going over it checking where you errored or you can work through it carefully.

Exactly what I'm talking about. Boo hoo, you don't want to put forth a little more effort to SAVE LIVES. If it saves ONE LIFE, it's worth it. We can go in and fix it later because that's the beauty of our government: We can edit it.

I see. So, we should ban alcohol in all it's forms too, right?

Don't be incitefully stupid. Alcohol is a wonderful substance when used correctly. Anything is a poison when imbibed excessively.

But approximately 16,000 people are killed by drunk driving every year. Sounds like getting rid of it would save alot of lives. It's pretty clear that not everyone uses it in moderation.

You dipshit. Drunk driving IS against the law. People do it anyway. And people drank alcohol when it was illegal too. Come back when you have something relevant to say.

This reminds me of the Bill Hick joke expressing distaste at how eighth-graderly stupid most of America is, when they were discussing flag-burning laws, and certain people were like, does that mean I have to burn my flag? NOOOOOOO. IT DOESN'T. NOOOOO.

[Nonesuch Solo]

EsgarBlackpoxs

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

EsgarBlackpoxs

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Cherrath

If we rush it and put a bloated bill into state that is inneficient and doesn't help the problem, which depending on how bad it is might not help, then it will be a lot harder to change it. If it's so hard to get people to back it in the first place, think how hard it would be to change it. It's like a math problem: you can rush it and do it wrong and spend 4 times the amount of time going over it checking where you errored or you can work through it carefully.

Exactly what I'm talking about. Boo hoo, you don't want to put forth a little more effort to SAVE LIVES. If it saves ONE LIFE, it's worth it. We can go in and fix it later because that's the beauty of our government: We can edit it.

I see. So, we should ban alcohol in all it's forms too, right?

Don't be incitefully stupid. Alcohol is a wonderful substance when used correctly. Anything is a poison when imbibed excessively.

But approximately 16,000 people are killed by drunk driving every year. Sounds like getting rid of it would save alot of lives. It's pretty clear that not everyone uses it in moderation.

Come now, we know it's not the alcohol's fault.

It's automobiles. We must abolish driving in its entirety. Nobody ever got killed from a drunk walker.

[Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST]

Nonesuch Solo

EsgarBlackpoxs

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

EsgarBlackpoxs

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Cherrath

If we rush it and put a bloated bill into state that is inneficient and doesn't help the problem, which depending on how bad it is might not help, then it will be a lot harder to change it. If it's so hard to get people to back it in the first place, think how hard it would be to change it. It's like a math problem: you can rush it and do it wrong and spend 4 times the amount of time going over it checking where you errored or you can work through it carefully.

Exactly what I'm talking about. Boo hoo, you don't want to put forth a little more effort to SAVE LIVES. If it saves ONE LIFE, it's worth it. We can go in and fix it later because that's the beauty of our government: We can edit it.

I see. So, we should ban alcohol in all it's forms too, right?

Don't be incitefully stupid. Alcohol is a wonderful substance when used correctly. Anything is a poison when imbibed excessively.

But approximately 16,000 people are killed by drunk driving every year. Sounds like getting rid of it would save alot of lives. It's pretty clear that not everyone uses it in moderation.

Come now, we know it's not the alcohol's fault.

It's automobiles. We must abolish driving in its entirety. Nobody ever got killed from a drunk walker.

That would actually fix the problem XDDD

[EmotionallyInconsistent]

black_wing_angel

Is that what you want? People to be targeted and killed, through no fault of their own, just for being born into a crowded world? Or is it worse to let all people have a chance to live, and let nature take its course with those who can not afford to live?[/white]

What's the difference?