Tell me it is just and holy to oppose health care reform.

[Cherrath]

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

GunsmithKitten

Not all of us who oppose this bill are opposed to reform.

Hell, I HATE the status quo system we have now. I really do. I'm sick of our mortality being effectively in the hands of an industry that's one of the few left in the 21'st American economy that's allowed to have a MONOPOLY and it being an industry that benefits by denying care instead of providing it.

But a bloated, expensive monostrosity that doesn't address this? No thank you.

How would you help, then? Plz to describe in detail.

I don't think the average gaian is going to be able to come up with a working healthcare system as you probably cannot either. It doesn't mean we should settle for the first available healthcare bill. This is something we need to do carefully and correctly the first time.

[Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST]

EmotionallyInconsistent

The Zodikosis

Put simply some people just don't want to pay for other people's medical bills through their taxes. Not everyone is completely compassionate to other beings just because they are humans too, in fact most people aren't and don't care if others die.

Sounds like those people need to be near death and helpless... not to learn anything of course. People don't learn, but watching them squirm in pain, knoowing no one will help them would be so funny.

And people don't realize how terribly easy it is to become homeless. These people who lack compassion- what if, one day, their home or credit score went under? If you lose your home, and your phone, it's ******** hard to find a job. I was almost on the streets myself. I cannot afford my own phone. It's much harder to get around without one.

It's not impossible to get on your feet. I am beginning to do so. But it IS more difficult than most people think. People need help, not to be left alone and feeling helpless.

[The Zodikosis]

EmotionallyInconsistent

The Zodikosis

Put simply some people just don't want to pay for other people's medical bills through their taxes. Not everyone is completely compassionate to other beings just because they are humans too, in fact most people aren't and don't care if others die.

Sounds like those people need to be near death and helpless... not to learn anything of course. People don't learn, but watching them squirm in pain, knoowing no one will help them would be so funny.

This is the Zodiac speaking...

It is human nature and it's illogical to argue it and unproductive to denounce it as "wrong", because it's still not going to change. In fact, almost everyone does not give a damn what happens to someone they don't know, including you. That's why kids are starving in Africa and the homeless wander the streets cold because no one will take them in because they can't get a house and a job in six months or less, while you sit here complaining about people who should -expect- health care. Torturing them will do absolutely nothing except satisfy your sadistic needs, but of course you've already identified that.

...that is all.

[Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST]

Cherrath

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

GunsmithKitten

Not all of us who oppose this bill are opposed to reform.

Hell, I HATE the status quo system we have now. I really do. I'm sick of our mortality being effectively in the hands of an industry that's one of the few left in the 21'st American economy that's allowed to have a MONOPOLY and it being an industry that benefits by denying care instead of providing it.

But a bloated, expensive monostrosity that doesn't address this? No thank you.

How would you help, then? Plz to describe in detail.

I don't think the average gaian is going to be able to come up with a working healthcare system as you probably cannot either. It doesn't mean we should settle for the first available healthcare bill. This is something we need to do carefully and correctly the first time.

How contradictory. Who can? XDD Better we take action than prolong death and dying.

[BlueCollarJoe]

OP, your appealing to emotion, not logic. And to reply in kind: We average approximately 25 deaths a day caused by illegal aliens. Where's our border security? Why the ******** doesn't that shitbag do something to protect our citizens by securing the borders?
See? Two can play that retards game of appeals to emotions.
This plan they're proposing? It's like giving the Titanic a spare tire after they hit the iceberg. It isn't what you need at that time.

[Xeno Incognito]

EmotionallyInconsistent

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

EmotionallyInconsistent

Well... it's because we don't want to pay for lazy jobless bums. Of course, no one wants to know why some people are jobless... neutral

Certainly not because they are lazy. I myself am college educated. I had a 4.01 major GPA, even. Clearly, I'm not lazy or stupid. But even I was unemployed all this summer. I live in California, where some cities are going to see over a fifty percent unemployment rate after the harvests.

I know. I've been through that route... looking for work and having people call me lazy for not having a job. Currently, what's going to hurt me worse is the misdemeanor I just got yesterday because my dad attempted to strangle me and told the cops I attacked him. So I don't have health insurance (they wouldn't cover mental illnesses like depression and ADHD I'm sure), I don't have any hope of seeing work and I owe the court a $200 bond.

I know where other Americans are coming from... neutral

eek

I wanna know the story behind this.

[Cherrath]

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Cherrath

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

GunsmithKitten

Not all of us who oppose this bill are opposed to reform.

Hell, I HATE the status quo system we have now. I really do. I'm sick of our mortality being effectively in the hands of an industry that's one of the few left in the 21'st American economy that's allowed to have a MONOPOLY and it being an industry that benefits by denying care instead of providing it.

But a bloated, expensive monostrosity that doesn't address this? No thank you.

How would you help, then? Plz to describe in detail.

I don't think the average gaian is going to be able to come up with a working healthcare system as you probably cannot either. It doesn't mean we should settle for the first available healthcare bill. This is something we need to do carefully and correctly the first time.

How contradictory. Who can? XDD Better we take action than prolong death and dying.

If we rush it and put a bloated bill into state that is inneficient and doesn't help the problem, which depending on how bad it is might not help, then it will be a lot harder to change it. If it's so hard to get people to back it in the first place, think how hard it would be to change it. It's like a math problem: you can rush it and do it wrong and spend 4 times the amount of time going over it checking where you errored or you can work through it carefully.

[Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST]

The Zodikosis

EmotionallyInconsistent

The Zodikosis

Put simply some people just don't want to pay for other people's medical bills through their taxes. Not everyone is completely compassionate to other beings just because they are humans too, in fact most people aren't and don't care if others die.

Sounds like those people need to be near death and helpless... not to learn anything of course. People don't learn, but watching them squirm in pain, knoowing no one will help them would be so funny.

This is the Zodiac speaking...

It is human nature and it's illogical to argue it and unproductive to denounce it as "wrong", because it's still not going to change. In fact, almost everyone does not give a damn what happens to someone they don't know, including you. That's why kids are starving in Africa while you sit here complaining about people who should expect health care. Torturing them will do absolutely nothing except satisfy your sadistic needs, but of course you've already identified that.

...that is all.

It is not illogical nor unproductive to denounce certain human nature as "wrong". Rather, I believe it is the opposite. It is the only way we can evolve.

We are not still apemen hunting down animals to eat raw and chasing each other off from our watering holes. No, now we're a little more hairless and bombing each other away from them.

And I think we could help those children in Africa if we evolved, too. But that's for another thread.

[Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST]

Cherrath

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Cherrath

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

GunsmithKitten

Not all of us who oppose this bill are opposed to reform.

Hell, I HATE the status quo system we have now. I really do. I'm sick of our mortality being effectively in the hands of an industry that's one of the few left in the 21'st American economy that's allowed to have a MONOPOLY and it being an industry that benefits by denying care instead of providing it.

But a bloated, expensive monostrosity that doesn't address this? No thank you.

How would you help, then? Plz to describe in detail.

I don't think the average gaian is going to be able to come up with a working healthcare system as you probably cannot either. It doesn't mean we should settle for the first available healthcare bill. This is something we need to do carefully and correctly the first time.

How contradictory. Who can? XDD Better we take action than prolong death and dying.

If we rush it and put a bloated bill into state that is inneficient and doesn't help the problem, which depending on how bad it is might not help, then it will be a lot harder to change it. If it's so hard to get people to back it in the first place, think how hard it would be to change it. It's like a math problem: you can rush it and do it wrong and spend 4 times the amount of time going over it checking where you errored or you can work through it carefully.

Exactly what I'm talking about. Boo hoo, you don't want to put forth a little more effort to SAVE LIVES. If it saves ONE LIFE, it's worth it. We can go in and fix it later because that's the beauty of our government: We can edit it.

[EmotionallyInconsistent]

The Zodikosis

EmotionallyInconsistent

The Zodikosis

Put simply some people just don't want to pay for other people's medical bills through their taxes. Not everyone is completely compassionate to other beings just because they are humans too, in fact most people aren't and don't care if others die.

Sounds like those people need to be near death and helpless... not to learn anything of course. People don't learn, but watching them squirm in pain, knoowing no one will help them would be so funny.

This is the Zodiac speaking...

It is human nature and it's illogical to argue it and unproductive to denounce it as "wrong", because it's still not going to change. In fact, almost everyone does not give a damn what happens to someone they don't know, including you. That's why kids are starving in Africa and the homeless wander the streets cold because no one will take them in because they can't get a house and a job in six months or less, while you sit here complaining about people who should -expect- health care. Torturing them will do absolutely nothing except satisfy your sadistic needs, but of course you've already identified that.

...that is all.

I didn't say I wanted change. I am aware that they are incapable of caring, incapable of empathy. That's why I want them to suffer... if they suffer, then it will be almost as if karma was paid in full.

[Cherrath]

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Cherrath

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Cherrath

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

GunsmithKitten

Not all of us who oppose this bill are opposed to reform.

Hell, I HATE the status quo system we have now. I really do. I'm sick of our mortality being effectively in the hands of an industry that's one of the few left in the 21'st American economy that's allowed to have a MONOPOLY and it being an industry that benefits by denying care instead of providing it.

But a bloated, expensive monostrosity that doesn't address this? No thank you.

How would you help, then? Plz to describe in detail.

I don't think the average gaian is going to be able to come up with a working healthcare system as you probably cannot either. It doesn't mean we should settle for the first available healthcare bill. This is something we need to do carefully and correctly the first time.

How contradictory. Who can? XDD Better we take action than prolong death and dying.

If we rush it and put a bloated bill into state that is inneficient and doesn't help the problem, which depending on how bad it is might not help, then it will be a lot harder to change it. If it's so hard to get people to back it in the first place, think how hard it would be to change it. It's like a math problem: you can rush it and do it wrong and spend 4 times the amount of time going over it checking where you errored or you can work through it carefully.

Exactly what I'm talking about. Boo hoo, you don't want to put forth a little more effort to SAVE LIVES. If it saves ONE LIFE, it's worth it. We can go in and fix it later because that's the beauty of our government: We can edit it.

Mmhmm... in the long run, rushing this could cost more lives than taking the time to do it correctly would save in the future. Your logic is flawed.

[Nonesuch Solo]

EmotionallyInconsistent

The Zodikosis

EmotionallyInconsistent

The Zodikosis

Put simply some people just don't want to pay for other people's medical bills through their taxes. Not everyone is completely compassionate to other beings just because they are humans too, in fact most people aren't and don't care if others die.

Sounds like those people need to be near death and helpless... not to learn anything of course. People don't learn, but watching them squirm in pain, knoowing no one will help them would be so funny.

This is the Zodiac speaking...

It is human nature and it's illogical to argue it and unproductive to denounce it as "wrong", because it's still not going to change. In fact, almost everyone does not give a damn what happens to someone they don't know, including you. That's why kids are starving in Africa and the homeless wander the streets cold because no one will take them in because they can't get a house and a job in six months or less, while you sit here complaining about people who should -expect- health care. Torturing them will do absolutely nothing except satisfy your sadistic needs, but of course you've already identified that.

...that is all.

I didn't say I wanted change. I am aware that they are incapable of caring, incapable of empathy. That's why I want them to suffer... if they suffer, then it will be almost as if karma was paid in full.

Is that how karma works?

You can watch and relish people get theirs in the end?

Gee, sounds like a fanfic and not an actual spiritual force...

[EmotionallyInconsistent]

Xeno Incognito

EmotionallyInconsistent

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

EmotionallyInconsistent

Well... it's because we don't want to pay for lazy jobless bums. Of course, no one wants to know why some people are jobless... neutral

Certainly not because they are lazy. I myself am college educated. I had a 4.01 major GPA, even. Clearly, I'm not lazy or stupid. But even I was unemployed all this summer. I live in California, where some cities are going to see over a fifty percent unemployment rate after the harvests.

I know. I've been through that route... looking for work and having people call me lazy for not having a job. Currently, what's going to hurt me worse is the misdemeanor I just got yesterday because my dad attempted to strangle me and told the cops I attacked him. So I don't have health insurance (they wouldn't cover mental illnesses like depression and ADHD I'm sure), I don't have any hope of seeing work and I owe the court a $200 bond.

I know where other Americans are coming from... neutral

eek

I wanna know the story behind this.

I don't want to talk about it any further. I just know that he is dancing for joy that he has permanently made me suffer for being born. neutral

[Rosetta Celestine]

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

Last night, Representative Alan Grayson reserved an hour of time to give a speech in the House. He began his speech by saying that a Harvard study had concluded that 44,789 Americans die each year because they have no health insurance. This is approximately 15 times as many people than the terrorists killed on 9/11, and this happens every year. 122 a day. 122 deaths America would love to prevent if it were Al Qaeda doing it, said Grayson. He then proceeded, having done the math, to tell everyone how many American citizens died in each district represented by a Republican against the health care reform. He would give the name of the district, the name of the representative, and then the amount dead. Example: "Alabama District 1, Congressman Jo Bonner, 114 dead." "Alabama District 3, Congressman Mike Rogers, 88 dead." And so on.

For twenty.

Three.

Minutes.

At this point, the Republicans demanded that he stop, so a recess was called so that they could go over his speech to see if anything objectionable had been said. It had not been. They were just trying to shut him up and waste time, I suppose- afterwards, they allowed him to continue. He finished his list and went on to tell personal stories about the lives that had been lost.

I don't care who you are. I don't care if you're a Republican, a Democrat, a Liberal, a Conservative. I don't care if you're registered with the Green Party, or the Libertarians, or some other independent group, or, even, if you don't vote at all. I don't care if you're Catholic or Atheist or Jewish or Muslim or Hindu or Buddhist or Shinto. I don't care if you believe the world is going to end in two years, on December 12th.

Men, women, children- Americans and HUMAN BEINGS, just like you, die in great numbers every year because of our lack of health care in this country.

Is it REALLY. REALLY. Worth 44,789 lives, people you might know, people you might have grown up with, family, friends, or even complete and total strangers, just so that you don't have to put forth the smallest bit of effort? How many fathers, husbands, wives, mothers, sons, daughters, grandparents and grandchildren, aunts and uncles, sisters and brothers, cousins, nieces, nephews. If you think that's morbid, you're right - but can you really, honestly and with no qualms about it condemn them to die so as to avoid inconveniencing yourself?

Can you REALLY defend such actions as just and/or holy? You're smarter than that. I know you are.

Stop listening when people like Michelle Bachmann tell you that you're going to have to give up your healthcare and accept a Government appointed one - an outright lie, because no one who HAS healthcare is going to be required to change their healthcare unless they want to. The only people who will even be notably affected by the presence of a public option are the ones who don't have healthcare already, or who WANT the public option. Stop listening when people like Virginia Foxx tell you that the healthcare bill is AS DANGEROUS as terrorism. You know what IS as dangerous as terrorism? Letting 44,789 people die _yearly,_ just so that no one has to accept that things HAVE TO CHANGE.

This has my seal of approval. I have nothing to add.

[Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST]

BlueCollarJoe

OP, your appealing to emotion, not logic. And to reply in kind: We average approximately 25 deaths a day caused by illegal aliens. Where's our border security? Why the ******** doesn't that shitbag do something to protect our citizens by securing the borders?
See? Two can play that retards game of appeals to emotions.
This plan they're proposing? It's like giving the Titanic a spare tire after they hit the iceberg. It isn't what you need at that time.

Your argument is the fallacious one here- and seriously, you use the word retard when you can't even use correct spelling and grammar?

So there are deaths caused by other matters.

So I'm angry that Maine repealed its gay marriage laws and Obama isn't doing much about it.

That's NOT what this thread is about.

And it's not an appeal to emotion when it's just facts. Humans are dying. And you're okay with it.