Tell me it is just and holy to oppose health care reform.

[Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST]

Last night, Representative Alan Grayson reserved an hour of time to give a speech in the House. He began his speech by saying that a Harvard study had concluded that 44,789 Americans die each year because they have no health insurance. This is approximately 15 times as many people than the terrorists killed on 9/11, and this happens every year. 122 a day. 122 deaths America would love to prevent if it were Al Qaeda doing it, said Grayson. He then proceeded, having done the math, to tell everyone how many American citizens died in each district represented by a Republican against the health care reform. He would give the name of the district, the name of the representative, and then the amount dead. Example: "Alabama District 1, Congressman Jo Bonner, 114 dead." "Alabama District 3, Congressman Mike Rogers, 88 dead." And so on.

For twenty.

Three.

Minutes.

At this point, the Republicans demanded that he stop, so a recess was called so that they could go over his speech to see if anything objectionable had been said. It had not been. They were just trying to shut him up and waste time, I suppose- afterwards, they allowed him to continue. He finished his list and went on to tell personal stories about the lives that had been lost.

I don't care who you are. I don't care if you're a Republican, a Democrat, a Liberal, a Conservative. I don't care if you're registered with the Green Party, or the Libertarians, or some other independent group, or, even, if you don't vote at all. I don't care if you're Catholic or Atheist or Jewish or Muslim or Hindu or Buddhist or Shinto. I don't care if you believe the world is going to end in two years, on December 12th.

Men, women, children- Americans and HUMAN BEINGS, just like you, die in great numbers every year because of our lack of health care in this country.

Is it REALLY. REALLY. Worth 44,789 lives, people you might know, people you might have grown up with, family, friends, or even complete and total strangers, just so that you don't have to put forth the smallest bit of effort? How many fathers, husbands, wives, mothers, sons, daughters, grandparents and grandchildren, aunts and uncles, sisters and brothers, cousins, nieces, nephews. If you think that's morbid, you're right - but can you really, honestly and with no qualms about it condemn them to die so as to avoid inconveniencing yourself?

Can you REALLY defend such actions as just and/or holy? You're smarter than that. I know you are.

Stop listening when people like Michelle Bachmann tell you that you're going to have to give up your healthcare and accept a Government appointed one - an outright lie, because no one who HAS healthcare is going to be required to change their healthcare unless they want to. The only people who will even be notably affected by the presence of a public option are the ones who don't have healthcare already, or who WANT the public option. Stop listening when people like Virginia Foxx tell you that the healthcare bill is AS DANGEROUS as terrorism. You know what IS as dangerous as terrorism? Letting 44,789 people die _yearly,_ just so that no one has to accept that things HAVE TO CHANGE.

[EmotionallyInconsistent]

Well... it's because we don't want to pay for lazy jobless bums. Of course, no one wants to know why some people are jobless... neutral

[GunsmithKitten]

Not all of us who oppose this bill are opposed to reform.

Hell, I HATE the status quo system we have now. I really do. I'm sick of our mortality being effectively in the hands of an industry that's one of the few left in the 21'st American economy that's allowed to have a MONOPOLY and it being an industry that benefits by denying care instead of providing it.

But a bloated, expensive monostrosity that doesn't address this? No thank you.

[The Zodikosis]

Put simply some people just don't want to pay for other people's medical bills through their taxes. Not everyone is completely compassionate to other beings just because they are humans too, in fact most people aren't and don't care if others die.

Apparently Sweden or Switzerland has a private sector health care plan that works really well (everyone gets covered, government doesn't really control it). Maybe we should look into their system?

Also, what about overcrowding hospitals and poorer medical service?

[Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST]

EmotionallyInconsistent

Well... it's because we don't want to pay for lazy jobless bums. Of course, no one wants to know why some people are jobless... neutral

Certainly not because they are lazy. I myself am college educated. I had a 4.01 major GPA, even. Clearly, I'm not lazy or stupid. But even I was unemployed all this summer. I live in California, where some cities are going to see over a fifty percent unemployment rate after the harvests.

[sexana]

There are other hidden factors in the bill too you know. That's why it's so many pages long and Congress and the people aren't allowed to read it. Ever wonder why?

[EmotionallyInconsistent]

The Zodikosis

Put simply some people just don't want to pay for other people's medical bills through their taxes. Not everyone is completely compassionate to other beings just because they are humans too, in fact most people aren't and don't care if others die.

Sounds like those people need to be near death and helpless... not to learn anything of course. People don't learn, but watching them squirm in pain, knowing no one will help them would be so funny.

[GunsmithKitten]

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

EmotionallyInconsistent

Well... it's because we don't want to pay for lazy jobless bums. Of course, no one wants to know why some people are jobless... neutral

Certainly not because they are lazy. I myself am college educated. I had a 4.01 major GPA, even. Clearly, I'm not lazy or stupid. But even I was unemployed all this summer. I live in California, where some cities are going to see over a fifty percent unemployment rate after the harvests.

Hence why I want the market to get control of the industry again. Right now, it's in the hands of health insurance cartels who don't have to worry dink about competetion and thanks to their artificial inflation of the costs, made us dependant on them.

Break up the monopolies. Reign in the industry. Encourage concierge and flat rate clinics (they DO WORK). That's my solution.

[Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST]

GunsmithKitten

Not all of us who oppose this bill are opposed to reform.

Hell, I HATE the status quo system we have now. I really do. I'm sick of our mortality being effectively in the hands of an industry that's one of the few left in the 21'st American economy that's allowed to have a MONOPOLY and it being an industry that benefits by denying care instead of providing it.

But a bloated, expensive monostrosity that doesn't address this? No thank you.

How would you help, then? Plz to describe in detail.

[Nonesuch Solo]

GunsmithKitten

Not all of us who oppose this bill are opposed to reform.

This this and this.



You can't just expect gorram statistics to change someone's mind when they honestly don't believe the proposal will fix what's wrong!

[Cherrath]

There is no reason for countries i've never heard the names of before to have a higher ranked health care system than the United States. Anyone who refuses to accept that this country needs to reform its system is simply turning a blind eye to facts.

[Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST]

sexana

There are other hidden factors in the bill too you know. That's why it's so many pages long and Congress and the people aren't allowed to read it. Ever wonder why?

Stercore tauri. Bullshit. Go read it right now.

http://edlabor.house.gov/blog/2009/10/affordable-health-care.shtml <----- summary

http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf <---- bill in its entirety

[Vain Ziler]

Out of all the industrial countries in the world, ours has one of the lowest tax rates. Kicking in a few extra bucks here and there in taxes ain't going to hurt us as a whole, at all. We can easily afford universal health care, the only thing stopping us is America's medical owners who have most republicans and even several 'blue dog' democrats in their pocket.

And honestly, I laugh every time someone makes the remark "I don't want to pay for lazy bum/jobless person", because it wouldn't take much for the same person that made that statement to loose their job. So when their outside looking in, and need medical help, they wont be able to get it, because of their own selfishness and ignorance.

[EmotionallyInconsistent]

Seneca-ERRAREHUMANUMEST

EmotionallyInconsistent

Well... it's because we don't want to pay for lazy jobless bums. Of course, no one wants to know why some people are jobless... neutral

Certainly not because they are lazy. I myself am college educated. I had a 4.01 major GPA, even. Clearly, I'm not lazy or stupid. But even I was unemployed all this summer. I live in California, where some cities are going to see over a fifty percent unemployment rate after the harvests.

I know. I've been through that route... looking for work and having people call me lazy for not having a job. Currently, what's going to hurt me worse is the misdemeanor I just got yesterday because my dad attempted to strangle me and told the cops I attacked him. So I don't have health insurance (they wouldn't cover mental illnesses like depression and ADHD I'm sure), I don't have any hope of seeing work and I owe the court a $200 bond.

I know where other Americans are coming from... neutral