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Petrograd
victor gusta queso
Mostly because when you're seventeen you aren't financially able to care for you child on your own. You finished high school, great. But you can't go to college because you have a baby to look after, which lowers your chances of a well paying career significantly.
That argument makes sense, but if that was something the country would like to see, they could tax income and subsidize education. That way many more could go to college and stuff, get more income and pay more tax.

Evidently that's not something the US prioritizes.

I'm pretty sure that what the country wants to see is people waiting until they can support themselves before they decide to create more mouths to feed. There are so many ways to prevent pregnancy now that it's just short of idiocy to have a child when you are still dependent yourself.
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victor gusta queso
I'm pretty sure that what the country wants to see is people waiting until they can support themselves before they decide to create more mouths to feed. There are so many ways to prevent pregnancy now that it's just short of idiocy to have a child when you are still dependent yourself.
*nods*

In Sweden we have generous subsidies for people with children that helps reduce the need of a full time job, although you'll still need a job unless you have like 3-4 kids.

From a society perspective it's not necessary to have to "work your way up" before you do everything. By subsidizing investments early (eg studying, having kids) and taxing later on you can sort of borrow from yourself in the future.

Of course some abuse this, but not many, so it works.

Seems the US really doesn't like to do that =P
Divine Moment of Truth's avatar

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Because most teenage parents are not fit to be parents. My seventeen year old friend purposely got pregnant and she can't even afford to eat. She's on WIC and foodstamps, and refuses to work, she uses her pregnancy as an excuse to get food from other people. She's lazy, and she's stupid and that's how people think you're going to be.
Hello Christieee's avatar

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i personally don't have a problem with teenage pregnancy. But i guess that reason that people look down upon teenage moms is because they assume that the mother is reckless and immature. I get what you're saying about the times of the kingdoms and castles, but i guess times are a little harder now, where one is expected to have stable finances and a secure job in order to raise a child. And 17 is assumed to be an immature age to have a child, but yeah that's not really the case.
Divine Moment of Truth
Because most teenage parents are not fit to be parents. My seventeen year old friend purposely got pregnant and she can't even afford to eat. She's on WIC and foodstamps, and refuses to work, she uses her pregnancy as an excuse to get food from other people. She's lazy, and she's stupid and that's how people think you're going to be.

Sounds like a classic case of welfare mom.

When I was on the streets I knew women who would get pregnant in order to get the state to provide for them. It's really damaging to funding.
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Divine Moment of Truth
Because most teenage parents are not fit to be parents. My seventeen year old friend purposely got pregnant and she can't even afford to eat. She's on WIC and foodstamps, and refuses to work, she uses her pregnancy as an excuse to get food from other people. She's lazy, and she's stupid and that's how people think you're going to be.

Sounds like a classic case of welfare mom.

When I was on the streets I knew women who would get pregnant in order to get the state to provide for them. It's really damaging to funding.


She never got pregnant to intentionally steal from the state, but that's EXACTLY what she's doing.
Noxidot
I brought this to extended discussion with an over abundance of frustration.

I'm a teenage mother (17 years old) and constantly get dirty looks from people who don't know me. I am a graduate with good GPA and am working on getting my own business started.

I don't understand where this overly used bias against teenage pregnancy came from. Back in the time of Kingdoms and castles, Shakespeare, and Renaissance, you started having children when you were a "woman" which was the day you started your menstrual cycles.

My mother is an RN with 7 years of college who condones teenage pregnancy (if the teenager of course, is being responsible) because of how well women do giving birth earlier in life than later. The facts are there. It is highly recommended women above mid-twenties and up don't have more children due to the high chances of retardation in a fetus. This is caused because the body is older and can't catch something wrong with an egg that plants itself. When you're young, your body causes a natural humane abortion if there is something wrong. Yet for some reason everywhere it states women between the ages of 20-30 are "in their prime". I was a healthy infant born to my mother when she was 19. She had twins she carried to 3 months that she miscarried at 25, then she had my sister when she was nearly 27. My sister had a terrible speech impediment for nearly 5 years and had to ride the special needs bus until she was 8. Observing women who had children at later ages, they're often more hyper-active offspring.

I know three of seven mothers who had multiple children for financial reasons at the age of 30-40. Now they have a child with down syndrome.

Another irritating thing to me is there was a woman talking crap about me for being a 17 year old mother. She lives off of welfare, has 5 kids, and smoke/drank through her pregnancies. How is it fair that as much as I try to be a fitting parent, I can't be in the eyes of even the most unfit people just because of my age?

I quit using drugs, I took additional classes to graduate on time, and I saved money and prepared for my child's arrival. Now that she's here, I stay at home with her so that she is given enough love and affection for a proper development.

Of course in the case of a mother being a teenager and passing her child off to go out and party isn't proper parenting. We're discussing when a teenager is willing to be a parent figure instead of a, well, teenager. I know a teenage mother who smoked through out her pregnancy and after her child was born, she would stand at absolute most three feet away from him and smoke cigarettes. Not that she isn't loving, but I believe that's what gives teenage mother's a bad reputation. Yet when we see an adult woman do that, we make a comment usually in our mind and then look the other way.

So Extended Discussion, what is your opinion on teenage pregnancy?
Why is it that I'm a terrible, horrible, unfit parent just because of my age?


I think a lot of it has to do with the insanely high percentage of immature teenage brats that end up getting themselves knocked up, and when I say brats I'm talking about teens (especially 15 and under) that refuse to listen to 'mommy and daddy' and just party their brains out, get high, get drunk, piss off with their 'friends' to go smoke dope or drink or wtfe, and those stereotypical teen 'whores' that do just that - act like whores. SO, I think that's where the issue comes from.

Personally, I think teens 16 and younger shouldn't be having kids. They're truthfully not mature enough to handle it, and they're not far enough along in schooling to handle both the pregnancy and the 'real world'.
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With all due respect I believe it is hard to raise a child when you are still one yourself, this is in no way supposed to patronize you either, because I know people who have had children early and are great parents, but you need to live first so you know how to teach your children.
Noxidot
I brought this to extended discussion with an over abundance of frustration.

I'm a teenage mother (17 years old) and constantly get dirty looks from people who don't know me. I am a graduate with good GPA and am working on getting my own business started.

I don't understand where this overly used bias against teenage pregnancy came from. Back in the time of Kingdoms and castles, Shakespeare, and Renaissance, you started having children when you were a "woman" which was the day you started your menstrual cycles.

My mother is an RN with 7 years of college who condones teenage pregnancy (if the teenager of course, is being responsible) because of how well women do giving birth earlier in life than later. The facts are there. It is highly recommended women above mid-twenties and up don't have more children due to the high chances of retardation in a fetus. This is caused because the body is older and can't catch something wrong with an egg that plants itself. When you're young, your body causes a natural humane abortion if there is something wrong. Yet for some reason everywhere it states women between the ages of 20-30 are "in their prime". I was a healthy infant born to my mother when she was 19. She had twins she carried to 3 months that she miscarried at 25, then she had my sister when she was nearly 27. My sister had a terrible speech impediment for nearly 5 years and had to ride the special needs bus until she was 8. Observing women who had children at later ages, they're often more hyper-active offspring.

I know three of seven mothers who had multiple children for financial reasons at the age of 30-40. Now they have a child with down syndrome.

Another irritating thing to me is there was a woman talking crap about me for being a 17 year old mother. She lives off of welfare, has 5 kids, and smoke/drank through her pregnancies. How is it fair that as much as I try to be a fitting parent, I can't be in the eyes of even the most unfit people just because of my age?

I quit using drugs, I took additional classes to graduate on time, and I saved money and prepared for my child's arrival. Now that she's here, I stay at home with her so that she is given enough love and affection for a proper development.

Of course in the case of a mother being a teenager and passing her child off to go out and party isn't proper parenting. We're discussing when a teenager is willing to be a parent figure instead of a, well, teenager. I know a teenage mother who smoked through out her pregnancy and after her child was born, she would stand at absolute most three feet away from him and smoke cigarettes. Not that she isn't loving, but I believe that's what gives teenage mother's a bad reputation. Yet when we see an adult woman do that, we make a comment usually in our mind and then look the other way.

So Extended Discussion, what is your opinion on teenage pregnancy?
Why is it that I'm a terrible, horrible, unfit parent just because of my age?


I feel your pain, darling, and I'm much older than you at nearly 23. I had my first child at 21 and am now expecting my second, and everyone looks at me like I'm some piece of filth because I had kids young. Nevermind that I have basically given up every other aspect of my life so that I can be the best mother I can be to my children, or that I have sacrificed my own wants and needs (my fiance and I have even put off our wedding until it's a good time for the kids).

Part of it is that most of our generation is composed of [******** idiots. I know a lot of people my age who are good parents or would make good parents, but I see even more people my age and younger (and even some of the older crowd) being irresponsible and downright reckless when it comes to their parenting, if it can even be called that.

I babysit my friend's daughter, and her mother makes me completely ******** insane, because she is the absolute worst thing that has ever happened to this poor child. It would be better if she just disappeared and never came back, honestly, because this b***h does not give one ******** about her kid; her idea of "spending time" with her daughter is to put on a movie that will automatically replay when it's over and falling asleep in the recliner. I've been the one who's been teaching this little girl anything and everything--shapes, colours (which she didn't know at three years old!), letters, anything I can, because her father is working his a** off to make sure she's provided for. This b***h is the reason young mothers have such a bad name. Most of our generation is not mature enough to handle the immense responsibilities of taking care of a child. They don't realise it's about more than changing diapers and feeding the baby; you hold this child's very life in your hands, and you are responsible for teaching this child just about everything.

It frustrates the hell out of me, because for those of us young mothers who are doing these things, and are trying to actually care for our children and be the best we can be, it's nearly impossible to get ahead. You're automatically labelled as a leech, because you're either on welfare or living with your parents, or you're labelled as a s**t mother because you're never home because you're working your a** off to make sure your child has food and clothes. I'm doubly looked down on, because I stay at home while my fiance works and brings home the bacon; everyone looks at me and thinks, "Wow, even her parents don't want her, and her guy probably only stays with her because of the kids."

Honestly, I think that every first-time pregnant woman, no matter the age, should have to take a mandatory course on child care while they're pregnant. This course should, or course, cover the basics--feeding, clothing, heating up bottles, etc., but it should also include a stress on the fact that you're responsible for the child's development. I think that's most of the problem young mothers have today, is that most of them don't realise that they have to actually teach their kid too, not just "take care" of the child.
Noxidot
I brought this to extended discussion with an over abundance of frustration.

please keep in mind that this means your opinion is 100% bias and possibly not rational because of this.

Quote:
I'm a teenage mother (17 years old) and constantly get dirty looks from people who don't know me. I am a graduate with good GPA and am working on getting my own business started.

right when you're starting your life and working on getting something started up is generally not the best time to give yourself a bunch of unnecessary responsibility.

Quote:
I don't understand where this overly used bias against teenage pregnancy came from. Back in the time of Kingdoms and castles, Shakespeare, and Renaissance, you started having children when you were a "woman" which was the day you started your menstrual cycles.

yeah and they also died at the average age of 35.

Quote:
My mother is an RN with 7 years of college who condones teenage pregnancy (if the teenager of course, is being responsible)

which most likely isn't the case, most of them do it accidentally and are in no way ready for it and tend to have their parents raise their child because of this.
Quote:
because of how well women do giving birth earlier in life than later. The facts are there. It is highly recommended women above mid-twenties and up don't have more children due to the high chances of retardation in a fetus.

I'd like to see your source on this, because I just did some research real quick on this and the time that is recommended to stop having children is around thirty-five or forty.
Quote:
This is caused because the body is older and can't catch something wrong with an egg that plants itself. When you're young, your body causes a natural humane abortion if there is something wrong.

this is not always true, actually. it's possible for a younger woman to have a difficult pregnancy without her body naturally aborting the child.
not only that, but I did some research and teenage pregnancy actually has a tendency to cause high blood pressure [source].
Quote:
Yet for some reason everywhere it states women between the ages of 20-30 are "in their prime".

that's because they physically are. when you're a teenager your body isn't done growing yet. by twenty you're a fully grown adult, so that's considered your prime since you're fully grown but not yet old.
Quote:
I was a healthy infant born to my mother when she was 19. She had twins she carried to 3 months that she miscarried at 25, then she had my sister when she was nearly 27. My sister had a terrible speech impediment for nearly 5 years and had to ride the special needs bus until she was 8. Observing women who had children at later ages, they're often more hyper-active offspring.

this is your personal experience, not actual fact and it's not always the case.

Quote:
I know three of seven mothers who had multiple children for financial reasons at the age of 30-40. Now they have a child with down syndrome.

what the hell are the odds of knowing three people who happen to be around the same age that ALL had children with down syndrome?
that sounds like an awfully big coincidence and is rare enough to not really have a place in this conversation.

Quote:
Another irritating thing to me is there was a woman talking crap about me for being a 17 year old mother. She lives off of welfare, has 5 kids, and smoke/drank through her pregnancies. How is it fair that as much as I try to be a fitting parent, I can't be in the eyes of even the most unfit people just because of my age?

you're both unfit parents from what I can tell, just for different reasons.

Quote:
I quit using drugs,

so you used to be a drug user..
Quote:
I took additional classes to graduate on time,

you had to bust your a** to finish school so that way you could take care of a kid... (this sounds like a responsibility that you wouldn't have had to deal with had you not gotten pregnant)
Quote:
and I saved money and prepared for my child's arrival.

enough money to raise a child? that's an awful lot of money that sounds like it took an awful lot of work to get that you wouldn't have had to do had you not gotten pregnant at such an inconvenient age.
Quote:
Now that she's here, I stay at home with her so that she is given enough love and affection for a proper development.

so you don't have a job, meaning you don't have an income? who is paying for everything? are you still living with your mother? where is the father that you've decided to not mention in the op?

Quote:
Of course in the case of a mother being a teenager and passing her child off to go out and party isn't proper parenting. We're discussing when a teenager is willing to be a parent figure instead of a, well, teenager.

you have no clue how rare this really is.
Quote:
I know a teenage mother who smoked through out her pregnancy and after her child was born, she would stand at absolute most three feet away from him and smoke cigarettes. Not that she isn't loving, but I believe that's what gives teenage mother's a bad reputation.

it's not just teenage mothers that smoke while pregnant, for one. and two, she's not the only one that's giving teenage mothers a bad reputation.
Quote:
Yet when we see an adult woman do that, we make a comment usually in our mind and then look the other way.

right, we judge them as well, just as you stated. they're adults though and fit to make decisions like this as they're done growing emotionally and physically.

Quote:
So Extended Discussion, what is your opinion on teenage pregnancy?

I think I've made my point fairly obvious. I don't think it's the brightest idea.
Quote:
Why is it that I'm a terrible, horrible, unfit parent just because of my age?

It's not just because of your age:
1) you're an ex drug user
2) you had to work your a** off both at school and to get money to prepare for the child, which are two things that you had to do simply because it is a bad time to have a child and you weren't ready beforehand.
3) you don't have an income.
4) you don't seem to have a partner anywhere to help you out with this besides your mother, which just means you put an unnecessary burden on her.

I'm sorry, I understand that your situation is what it is, but that does not mean that you should be promoting it as a healthy thing to do.
prof-whoriarty
Quote:
I don't understand where this overly used bias against teenage pregnancy came from. Back in the time of Kingdoms and castles, Shakespeare, and Renaissance, you started having children when you were a "woman" which was the day you started your menstrual cycles.

yeah and they also died at the average age of 35.


Doesn't negate the point. When we started living longer, did teenagers magically start getting dumber? No, we just started treating them like they did. A self-fulfilling prophecy (to some extent).
lumnata
prof-whoriarty
Quote:
I don't understand where this overly used bias against teenage pregnancy came from. Back in the time of Kingdoms and castles, Shakespeare, and Renaissance, you started having children when you were a "woman" which was the day you started your menstrual cycles.

yeah and they also died at the average age of 35.


Doesn't negate the point. When we started living longer, did teenagers magically start getting dumber? No, we just started treating them like they did. A self-fulfilling prophecy (to some extent).
whether or not we're the cause of teenagers not being as mature as they were in the renaissance now, the fact is that they are less mature.
the times have changed.
dolly milk's avatar

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littlpinkunicorn
Do you have a boyfriend? Will your baby grow up in a real family, with a mom and a dad?


Implying that same sex couples do not fall into the category of "real" families? stare

Noxidot
I don't understand where this overly used bias against teenage pregnancy came from. Back in the time of Kingdoms and castles, Shakespeare, and Renaissance, you started having children when you were a "woman" which was the day you started your menstrual cycles.


I'm just going to say that they also only bathed about once a month during the Renaissance and wore such complicated gowns they sometimes literally peed themselves because the dresses were too difficult to take off so wearing diapers was easier.

...

What I suppose I'm getting at is that social values and norms change as a result of shifts in medicine, culture, technology, social values, whatnot/whatforth.

During the 'time of kingdoms' as you and Robert Munsch would say women lived to be, like, 30-40 years of age. You had kids when you had your menses because, like, ******** it if you weren't going to die in another 15 to twenty years anyway. You had your kids young or not really at all because if you have a baby at 35 and die at 37 that ******** is screwed.

Which is why I always think the "but 400-1000 years ago they did xyz" argument is full of horseshit.
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dolly milk
littlpinkunicorn
Do you have a boyfriend? Will your baby grow up in a real family, with a mom and a dad?


Implying that same sex couples do not fall into the category of "real" families? stare



Whoa, whoa! I did *not* mean it like that!
It's just - to get pregnant you need a guy, right? I just wanted to know if the guy is her boyfriend, that's all. Of course a same sex couple is as real as a heterosexual one. I just wanted to know if she's a single mom or if the baby has two parents who care about it~

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