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Half Wasian
GunsmithKitten
Half Wasian
GunsmithKitten
Quote:
-If you are in a one on one fight with someone and you're both using swords, then skill is needed for the battle. This isn't the same skill as mentioned in the OP. I say skill as being able to either be defensive or offensive in what you do. In a gunfight you can't block your opponents attacks and retaliate. You can only take cover and retaliate when the opportunity arrives.

But guess what? If your reflexes aren't as honed and you don't have that ability to reflexively put a shot into someone despite your body's panic reactions, you're just as dead.

And developing those reflexes TAKES SKILL.


In all honesty I think the reflexes need to parry consecutive attacks from an enemy wielding a sword are greater than those needed to point a gun at your target and fire quickly.


Perhaps so, but that leads to my other point; why is this a bad thing?

Also, have you taken a formal handgun or any other firearms training course? Not for hunting, but for personal defense?


I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Gun's are obviously more effective killing tools than swords. They're more lethal, they're lethal from extreme ranges, and they take little skill to use. However, using them effectively in extreme situation of course does take skill.

No I have not, why do you ask? My experience with guns is a recreational one. I've fired anything from pistols to sniper rifles several times. And without any training, I'm very accurate.


You do realize you are comparing apples to oranges. If you had taken the time to read the OP, you would have read where it says that shooting targets on a calm range does not equal combat marksmanship, and you could only compare that kind of shooting with whacking you're precious sword against a dummy. A case where shooting OBVIOUSLY requires more skill for an accurate hit.
 
     
Snipers, 1 shot 1 kill???
Amateurs...

"1 Shot - 12 Kills"
USMC Artillery

 
Rocket Marine
Half Wasian
GunsmithKitten
Half Wasian
GunsmithKitten
Quote:
-If you are in a one on one fight with someone and you're both using swords, then skill is needed for the battle. This isn't the same skill as mentioned in the OP. I say skill as being able to either be defensive or offensive in what you do. In a gunfight you can't block your opponents attacks and retaliate. You can only take cover and retaliate when the opportunity arrives.

But guess what? If your reflexes aren't as honed and you don't have that ability to reflexively put a shot into someone despite your body's panic reactions, you're just as dead.

And developing those reflexes TAKES SKILL.


In all honesty I think the reflexes need to parry consecutive attacks from an enemy wielding a sword are greater than those needed to point a gun at your target and fire quickly.


Perhaps so, but that leads to my other point; why is this a bad thing?

Also, have you taken a formal handgun or any other firearms training course? Not for hunting, but for personal defense?


I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Gun's are obviously more effective killing tools than swords. They're more lethal, they're lethal from extreme ranges, and they take little skill to use. However, using them effectively in extreme situation of course does take skill.

No I have not, why do you ask? My experience with guns is a recreational one. I've fired anything from pistols to sniper rifles several times. And without any training, I'm very accurate.


You do realize you are comparing apples to oranges. If you had taken the time to read the OP, you would have read where it says that shooting targets on a calm range does not equal combat marksmanship, and you could only compare that kind of shooting with whacking you're precious sword against a dummy. A case where shooting OBVIOUSLY requires more skill for an accurate hit.


I did mention how they take skill in extreme situations, did I not? If you had taken the time to read my post carefully, you would have caught that.
     
Quote:


Most likely not. But don't you think those same physical conditions would apply when in an intense sword fight? I know my adrenaline would be pumping just as much if I was getting shot at, than if someone was charging at me with a sword.


Somewhat similar, but different set of skills that AREN'T as hindered by the body's reactions.
Quote:

Now the closest thing to a combat situation that I've been in is playing paintball. And my aim actually increases while I'm in a 'firefight'. If you get similar adrenaline in a firefight with live ammunition, I can only imagine it would heighten your senses and reflexes if you took advantage of said adrenaline.


Paintball adds stress, but lacks the mortality factor. Rarely does your body believe "Oh my god, I'm going to die if I don't do something..."
 
     


Want peace? Prepare for war.
 
GunsmithKitten
Quote:


Most likely not. But don't you think those same physical conditions would apply when in an intense sword fight? I know my adrenaline would be pumping just as much if I was getting shot at, than if someone was charging at me with a sword.


Somewhat similar, but different set of skills that AREN'T as hindered by the body's reactions.
Quote:

Now the closest thing to a combat situation that I've been in is playing paintball. And my aim actually increases while I'm in a 'firefight'. If you get similar adrenaline in a firefight with live ammunition, I can only imagine it would heighten your senses and reflexes if you took advantage of said adrenaline.


Paintball adds stress, but lacks the mortality factor. Rarely does your body believe "Oh my god, I'm going to die if I don't do something..."


I would actually disagree. If depth perception and situational awareness are two of the factors that are affected, I can imagine repeatedly parrying blows from a rapidly moving sword would be quite difficult. But then again, who's to say what would be more difficult? It's all relative to whomever we're speaking of.

Of course, but there is still a fear of pain that is involved. You could say the same thing for a sword fight however. Although it would probably be more like "Oh my god, I'm going to die or lose a limb and suffer a horribly painful death if I don't do something..."
     
These are the forums and this is a forum post, get over it. :3

To the OP's and his main post:

You made somevery good points and many were well stated but I did get offended when you stated that a sword actually required no skill.

First, it is true a sword can be used in duch a way that you can sneak about and kill people from behind, but even if a gun can not fully be silenced it can also be used from a safe distanced to kill an unsespecting victim and at least with a sword you must also put your own life at a higher risk. Oh and while dont confuse a silencer with a flash hider, thank you. =]

Here is the main point of the first part: No kill is honorable, the taking of a human life is the taking of a human life. Please dont forget, that in a real fight, "honor" will never cross your mind as you fight for your life.

Second, please, think about it: "feel the life of another man when you take it." That has also been said about the gun, but it has been worded differently. Okay, yes people can feel the force of whatever they cut going against the blade, but can you not feel the recoil of a gun when you fire it? That has been considered to some as the force of the bullets penetration.

Second main point: Thank you for not applaying that to all swords men and women, but the feeling that you get the first time you take a life is really not so different if you use a gun or a sword.

Third and the one that really offended me, while I do agree that guns require a great ammount of skills, I want you to understand that swords require the same if not greater skill. You your self have said that with a gun you can take cover, there for you can rest even if just for a minute, but with a blade as your only weapon, you must train your body to move quickly and to last in long fights. As for taking account your enemy's tactics, well to be honest you really dont have any idea of what you are talking about. You said that with a sword you just wave it around, but then I could just say that with a gun, you can just aim and pull the triger. Now, let me tell you a fact: both weapons are equal in many ways and require the same amount of intesive training, because even the slightest mistake with either could cost your's or someone elses life. Oh, before I forget, you said something about "knife fight"s... never and I mean never combare a blade or sword to a little pocket nife because by those standards, I have every right to compare a paintball gun, both maybe deadly to some extent... but not even close to their counterparts. =/

Yes, I have trained with a blade and I value it more then a gun, but I have also shot a few guns in my time on this earth and that is to say that I have very much respect for both, so please understand when I say: "No one should even reply to this thread unless they have trained with both or at very least one of the weapons." (this is not directed fully to OP)
 
     
 
Half Wasian
One of the big things that bothered me about your post OP was how you claimed guns takes skill to use, while swords do not. That is an extremely ignorant statement.


Correction, it was an extremely SARCASTIC statement.

Quote:
It takes much less skill to kill someone with a gun, then it does with a sword.


*deep breath*

WAAAAAAAAAAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Quote:
With a gun, you point and pull the trigger. Easy.


With a sword, you hold and swing. Easy.

Quote:
Skill only becomes an issue when it's an extreme situation.


If my life rests in the barrel of my gun, I think that's a pretty extreme situation. Don't you?

Quote:
I'm not saying using a gun effectively doesn't take skill, I'm saying killing someone with one is extremely simple in most cases.


Swing and a miss, kiddo. It's not as easy as it looks. Especially if you happen to be someone who has difficulty with the thought of killing another human being.

Quote:
Let me give an example. The guy you are trying to kill is standing at a moderate distance away from you. Without needing to get close to him, you can injure him and most likely kill him with a well placed shot or enough bullets.


Keyword: Well placed!

That's the hard part. Getting that little chunk of lead to go to that "well placed" zone, is not an easy task.

Quote:
With a sword, you need to get up close and personal, and then you have to worry about whether or not the enemy is armed, and what he may try to do to defend himself.


I fail to see how this is missing from a gunfight.

Oh, and just because guns can kill at a distance, doesn't mean they usually are used that way. Unless you're using a sniper rifle, which makes up a VAST MINIORITY of gun related activities, you are likely every bit as close to your enemy, as you are in a sword fight.

You know all those shootings being done between the bloods and cripps? usually less than 10 feet of distance between them. Often less than 5.

Quote:
Using a sword is not a sure kill, the enemy can dodge, parry, or even take a blow and still attack if the blow isn't fatal. When someone's shooting at you, however, there's really nothing you can do other than hope there's cover nearby for you to hide behind if he misses the first few shots. That's a big thing to hope for.


If he's sniping you. If he has a handgun, and you're more than a certain distance away (which depends on the skill of the shooter), you can greatly improve your odds. Very few people are capable of landing a shot, with a pistol, from more than probably 30 yards.

Quote:
In conclusion: Swords take more skill to use effectively than guns.


In conclusion: You have no idea what the ******** you're talking about.
     
Shinjyurou
These are the forums and this is a forum post, get over it. :3

To the OP's and his main post:

You made somevery good points and many were well stated but I did get offended when you stated that a sword actually required no skill.


This is because you missed the sarcasm.

Quote:
First, it is true a sword can be used in duch a way that you can sneak about and kill people from behind, but even if a gun can not fully be silenced it can also be used from a safe distanced to kill an unsespecting victim and at least with a sword you must also put your own life at a higher risk.


Unless you sneak up on them.

Quote:
Oh and while dont confuse a silencer with a flash hider, thank you. =]


The term is flash SUPPRESSOR, and he would never mistake the 2. In fact, he has set a few people straight, himself.

I'm willing to bet 20K of Gaia Gold, that Fresnel knows more about guns, than you do.

Quote:
Here is the main point of the first part: No kill is honorable, the taking of a human life is the taking of a human life.


Here is where you've made your first major mistake here. You claim that killing is not honorable, as if it's an undeniable fact.

Honor is a subjective matter. What you find honorable, I might not. I might find honor in killing my fellow man. And you can't say I'm wrong, for believing it.

Quote:
Please dont forget, that in a real fight, "honor" will never cross your mind as you fight for your life.


You're about 900 pages late, on that one.

Quote:
Second, please, think about it: "feel the life of another man when you take it." That has also been said about the gun, but it has been worded differently. Okay, yes people can feel the force of whatever they cut going against the blade, but can you not feel the recoil of a gun when you fire it? That has been considered to some as the force of the bullets penetration.


Those people would consider incorrectly, wouldn't they? It's the force of the bullet leaving the barrel. The penetration of the bullet, into flesh, is not ever felt by the shooter, under any circumstances.

Quote:
Second main point: Thank you for not applaying that to all swords men and women, but the feeling that you get the first time you take a life is really not so different if you use a gun or a sword.


You are not qualified to state that as a universal fact. Not everyone has the same experiences that you do.

Quote:
Third and the one that really offended me, while I do agree that guns require a great ammount of skills, I want you to understand that swords require the same if not greater skill.


No. It's the same. There is no "greater", here.

Quote:
You your self have said that with a gun you can take cover, there for you can rest even if just for a minute, but with a blade as your only weapon, you must train your body to move quickly and to last in long fights.


You can take cover against a swordsman, too, you know. Duck around a corner, and wait for him to catch up to you. Hell, at that point, you have a chance to catch him off guard.

Quote:
As for taking account your enemy's tactics, well to be honest you really dont have any idea of what you are talking about.


LOL! If you say so... rolleyes

Quote:
You said that with a sword you just wave it around, but then I could just say that with a gun, you can just aim and pull the triger.


WOW! It's almost as if that was kinda the POINT!

Quote:
Now, let me tell you a fact: both weapons are equal in many ways and require the same amount of intesive training, because even the slightest mistake with either could cost your's or someone elses life. Oh, before I forget, you said something about "knife fight"s... never and I mean never combare a blade or sword to a little pocket nife because by those standards, I have every right to compare a paintball gun, both maybe deadly to some extent... but not even close to their counterparts. =/


I don't remember him saying anything about "pocket" knives.

Ever heard of an assault knife?

Quote:
Yes, I have trained with a blade and I value it more then a gun, but I have also shot a few guns in my time on this earth and that is to say that I have very much respect for both, so please understand when I say: "No one should even reply to this thread unless they have trained with both or at very least one of the weapons." (this is not directed fully to OP)


And maybe you'll understand when I say: "No one should even reply to this thread unless they have read the ENTIRE opening post, all three posts worth". Since you obviously did not. If you had, you might have seen where Fresnel openly explained the first post, as being a satirical reply to another thread, which stated that guns require no skill.
 
     
 
black_wing_angel
Half Wasian
One of the big things that bothered me about your post OP was how you claimed guns takes skill to use, while swords do not. That is an extremely ignorant statement.


Correction, it was an extremely SARCASTIC statement.

Quote:
It takes much less skill to kill someone with a gun, then it does with a sword.


*deep breath*

WAAAAAAAAAAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Quote:
With a gun, you point and pull the trigger. Easy.


With a sword, you hold and swing. Easy.

Quote:
Skill only becomes an issue when it's an extreme situation.


If my life rests in the barrel of my gun, I think that's a pretty extreme situation. Don't you?

Quote:
I'm not saying using a gun effectively doesn't take skill, I'm saying killing someone with one is extremely simple in most cases.


Swing and a miss, kiddo. It's not as easy as it looks. Especially if you happen to be someone who has difficulty with the thought of killing another human being.

Quote:
Let me give an example. The guy you are trying to kill is standing at a moderate distance away from you. Without needing to get close to him, you can injure him and most likely kill him with a well placed shot or enough bullets.


Keyword: Well placed!

That's the hard part. Getting that little chunk of lead to go to that "well placed" zone, is not an easy task.

Quote:
With a sword, you need to get up close and personal, and then you have to worry about whether or not the enemy is armed, and what he may try to do to defend himself.


I fail to see how this is missing from a gunfight.

Oh, and just because guns can kill at a distance, doesn't mean they usually are used that way. Unless you're using a sniper rifle, which makes up a VAST MINIORITY of gun related activities, you are likely every bit as close to your enemy, as you are in a sword fight.

You know all those shootings being done between the bloods and cripps? usually less than 10 feet of distance between them. Often less than 5.

Quote:
Using a sword is not a sure kill, the enemy can dodge, parry, or even take a blow and still attack if the blow isn't fatal. When someone's shooting at you, however, there's really nothing you can do other than hope there's cover nearby for you to hide behind if he misses the first few shots. That's a big thing to hope for.


If he's sniping you. If he has a handgun, and you're more than a certain distance away (which depends on the skill of the shooter), you can greatly improve your odds. Very few people are capable of landing a shot, with a pistol, from more than probably 30 yards.

Quote:
In conclusion: Swords take more skill to use effectively than guns.


In conclusion: You have no idea what the ******** you're talking about.


*facepalm* God I hate replying to stuck up bastards who dissect posts and write a snide comment for every sentence. It's obnoxious. Oh well.

-Does it really make a difference?

-Well thought out and educated response. It was thoroughly enlightening.

-Right, because the enemy is just going to stand there and take it. If you're shooting at someone who was just standing, you're probably going to hit him. He's very unlikely to get out of the way in time. If you want to kill someone with a sword, first you have to get close to him, then you have to swing and hope he doesn't try to counterattack.

-Yes, that would be considered an extreme situation. Thanks for proving my point?

-Ok, same with a sword. Except with a sword it's up close and personal and probably going to be much bloodier =/

-Funny, I can hit moving targets easy with a rifle and I have no training. Whatsoever.

-Closer distance means higher chance of killing your target quickly. Doesn't mean you can't do it from farther away. You can't throw a sword from over 15 feet away and do s**t to an enemy. Your point? I'm not even going to go into how stupidly broad of a statement that was. You're just focusing on certain cases between some gangs. I was under the impression we were talking about any sort of firefight, not just gang related ones.

-Rifles?

-In conclusion, I could say the same to you.
     


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Half Wasian
black_wing_angel
Half Wasian
One of the big things that bothered me about your post OP was how you claimed guns takes skill to use, while swords do not. That is an extremely ignorant statement.


Correction, it was an extremely SARCASTIC statement.

Quote:
It takes much less skill to kill someone with a gun, then it does with a sword.


*deep breath*

WAAAAAAAAAAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Quote:
With a gun, you point and pull the trigger. Easy.


With a sword, you hold and swing. Easy.

Quote:
Skill only becomes an issue when it's an extreme situation.


If my life rests in the barrel of my gun, I think that's a pretty extreme situation. Don't you?

Quote:
I'm not saying using a gun effectively doesn't take skill, I'm saying killing someone with one is extremely simple in most cases.


Swing and a miss, kiddo. It's not as easy as it looks. Especially if you happen to be someone who has difficulty with the thought of killing another human being.

Quote:
Let me give an example. The guy you are trying to kill is standing at a moderate distance away from you. Without needing to get close to him, you can injure him and most likely kill him with a well placed shot or enough bullets.


Keyword: Well placed!

That's the hard part. Getting that little chunk of lead to go to that "well placed" zone, is not an easy task.

Quote:
With a sword, you need to get up close and personal, and then you have to worry about whether or not the enemy is armed, and what he may try to do to defend himself.


I fail to see how this is missing from a gunfight.

Oh, and just because guns can kill at a distance, doesn't mean they usually are used that way. Unless you're using a sniper rifle, which makes up a VAST MINIORITY of gun related activities, you are likely every bit as close to your enemy, as you are in a sword fight.

You know all those shootings being done between the bloods and cripps? usually less than 10 feet of distance between them. Often less than 5.

Quote:
Using a sword is not a sure kill, the enemy can dodge, parry, or even take a blow and still attack if the blow isn't fatal. When someone's shooting at you, however, there's really nothing you can do other than hope there's cover nearby for you to hide behind if he misses the first few shots. That's a big thing to hope for.


If he's sniping you. If he has a handgun, and you're more than a certain distance away (which depends on the skill of the shooter), you can greatly improve your odds. Very few people are capable of landing a shot, with a pistol, from more than probably 30 yards.

Quote:
In conclusion: Swords take more skill to use effectively than guns.


In conclusion: You have no idea what the ******** you're talking about.


*facepalm* God I hate replying to stuck up bastards who dissect posts and write a snide comment for every sentence. It's obnoxious. Oh well.


I do this, so I don't have to do a bullet list at the bottom, to address each of your points. Because I find it more annoying to have to constantly scroll up and down, to find out what you're replying to, and what your reply is. Like I'm having to do, right now. stare

With the way I do it, you can literally just read top to bottom. It's neater.

Quote:
-Does it really make a difference?


Well, yeah. Kinda.

Let's try an example. If I said "Boy, I'm having the time of my ******** life!" Does it matter if I'm being sarcastic or not?

The answer is yes. Because the difference is whether I'm ACTUALLY saying that I'm having fun, or if I'm ACTUALLY saying that I'm bored out of my ******** skull.

That's a pretty big difference, isn't it?

Quote:
-Well thought out and educated response. It was thoroughly enlightening.

-Right, because the enemy is just going to stand there and take it. If you're shooting at someone who was just standing, you're probably going to hit him. He's very unlikely to get out of the way in time. If you want to kill someone with a sword, first you have to get close to him, then you have to swing and hope he doesn't try to counterattack.


How often do you hear of people killing someone with a sniper rifle? Most of the time, it involves reletively close quarters combat. And I don't know about you, but if I see someone running at me, reaching into his pocket, I'm getting the ******** out of there!

So, with the exeption of RARE snipings, chances are, they're not going to be "just standing there", any more often with a gun against them, than with a sword.

Quote:
-Ok, same with a sword. Except with a sword it's up close and personal and probably going to be much bloodier =/


Bloodier? Probably.

Closer? Doubt it. Most gunfights aren't 2 snipers trying to shoot each other from a mile away.

Quote:
-Funny, I can hit moving targets easy with a rifle and I have no training. Whatsoever.


Sure. A nice calm afternoon, putting bullets through pieces of paper which leave no threat of return fire, to you.

That's TOTALLY comparable to extremely tense battle, where your "target" is shooting back at you.

Not to mention human movements are absolutely unpredictable. They could stop suddenly, or change directions dramatically. That might make things a WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE bit tougher, huh?

Humans generally don't move the way targets do. At least, smart ones don't.

Quote:
-Closer distance means higher chance of killing your target quickly. Doesn't mean you can't do it from farther away. You can't throw a sword from over 15 feet away and do s**t to an enemy. Your point? I'm not even going to go into how stupidly broad of a statement that was. You're just focusing on certain cases between some gangs. I was under the impression we were talking about any sort of firefight, not just gang related ones.


And I already pointed out that the long distance snipe out, that you seem fixated on, is actually a rare case. Most gunfights involve handguns, which can not be accurately fired from such a distance. Maybe 50 yards, if you're really good. Probably not more than 20, otherwise.

Quote:
-Rifles?


Are rarely used in gunfights, outside of military operations.

Quote:
-In conclusion, I could say the same to you.


And you'd be wrong.
 
     
 
Ya know, every time I see a well written post covered in ignorance the way I like gravy on fries, I die a little inside. Seriously guys, guns can be very ******** difficult to use and they are usually used in what could be called melee range.

The whole rifles thing is basically hunting and War. War being something where you are being shot at BACK. Thus way more dangerous and requires way more skill than a sword using war. They have range too and you have to deal with it. It becomes more like chess and less like sweat man hugging like a sword fight can degenerate into.

Now I leave you gentlemen to locate the sarcasm and exaggeration.
     
DeathWyrmNexus
covered in ignorance the way I like gravy on fries
Sometimes I forget you're French. Then it all comes rushing back.
 
     
Always outnumbered, never outgunned.

http://tinyurl.com/2zyubj
Now hiring.
 
Fresnel
DeathWyrmNexus
covered in ignorance the way I like gravy on fries
Sometimes I forget you're French. Then it all comes rushing back.

... I was born in Okinawa so let me say hello in the language of my spawning point.

*rapes*

Smartass.
     
http://doiop.com/zil77b
Blades of the Nexus Battle Clan

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To Black_wing_angel, Im sorry, but it was my understanding that I was allowed to post MY opinion just as you did ur and how can you say my stuff is flawed, or lead me to believe that, if your replies are also generic and dont actually adress any of mine directly. (childish)

Um, yeah Im not trying to rage on the gaia forums, I rather not rage at all, but you need to stfu, cause I did read the whole thing or else I wouldnt waste my time posting here and yeah... congrats on reminding me that there will always be flamers on the forums and from what I see your a pro at it. lol

To the rest, I read some of your responses, very good and informed. =]
 
     
 
Shinjyurou
To Black_wing_angel, Im sorry, but it was my understanding that I was allowed to post MY opinion just as you did ur


You can. And you did.

However, you are still responsible for making sure you can stand on your opinions, and defend them against any and all attackers.

Quote:
and how can you say my stuff is flawed, or lead me to believe that, if your replies are also generic and dont actually adress any of mine directly. (childish)


Generic? Sure, I'll buy that. Childish? You're just mad.

Quote:
Um, yeah Im not trying to rage on the gaia forums, I rather not rage at all, but you need to stfu, cause I did read the whole thing


All 3 of the OP posts? I find that rather unlikely, given the nature of your post.

Quote:
or else I wouldnt waste my time posting here


I kinda doubt that.

Quote:
and yeah...congrats on reminding me that there will always be flamers on the forums and from what I see your a pro at it. lol


I didn't actually "flame" you, at any point. I simply ravaged your arguments, like a cheap whore in a dark alley.
     

Fresnel
Angel: Solving every situation with &******** [pronoun]"
DeathWyrmNexus
It becomes more like chess and less like sweat man hugging like a sword fight can degenerate into.

I prefer to see it more like Go than chess.
 
     
You may have your mistletoe, but it's no match for my Tow Missile.

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