So Gay marriage failed again...

[Amelia Hood]

Tampon Popsicle

How is it that there still people in this forum that don't know Octane is a troll?

Well, in my case I'm new, but I've known people who were not trolls who've made the same arguments, so I'd prefer to speak to that argument, not necessarily the person typing it.

[Amelia Hood]

Torrent_Of_Octane

Amelia Hood

Torrent_Of_Octane

M. Angel

Torrent_Of_Octane

People dont like homosexuality and the polls backs that up. We just dont want it in our government.

And one thing you got right, it shouldnt have been in the supreme courts at all. It should have been at the ballot for the people to vote.

Although I agree that it should be at the ballot for the people to vote at, what's your view on the campaign that seems to hinder it's own cause.

sweatdrop Tries to keep things on topic...

Well I need sleep guys. I'll hang around for a few more minutes, but then I need to crash.

Perhaps they need to re-asses their campaign. Question themselves why were there contradictions? If one's side (speaking in general, not just about gays) seems to have problems, its usually something wrong with that, not the overall system.

But back to my opinion, gay marriage was flawed from the start. Not only do we not support them, but the fact that they're trying to force the state to adhere to their "agenda", ... a broken one may I add... of course will be meat with stern oppositions. In my opinion gay marriage dont belong in our government at all.

Would you agree that a ban on gay marriage doesn't belong in law either then?

Agreed.

Well, that's something. So you think that the decision over whether or not to wed a gay couple should fall to each individual pastor then?

[Supa Beanie]

M. Angel

I'll bypass my initial reaction of what's new and pose my question for this debate.

What is wrong with the Gay marriage movement?

I mean, come on. They raise more money, they get more media attention, they take their cases all the way to the supreme court, and they still manage to screw themselves over. (No pun intended)

I'll come right out and say that I'm against gay marriage. I have my reasons. I voted for prop 8 and followed the whole controversy and still follow it today, but that's not what I want to know. From both sides I want the views of those who have an idea as to why a group with all the advantages on paper seem to repeatedly fail.

I'll say this again for those that I know will want to flame this thread:

-This is not a debate on whether Gay marriage should be accepted.

-This is not a discussion on whether homosexuality is or is not a moral/religious sin.

-This is not a screaming contest over my or anyone else who posts personal views on gay marriage.

I simply want your opinions on why an organization that repeatedly raises more money and seems to have the backing of the majority of the media outlets, can't seem to put together a strong movement/counter movement for what they stand for.

Case in point: The CA supreme court case on Prop 8 after the election.

The court gave a simple demand. Does the court have the power to overturn an amendment to the constitution and if so, what should it do about the previously legal marriages?

To those who watched all three hours of the preceding s, as I did, you don't need to be told how much of a mess the No on 8 people made of their case. They would contradict each other, get WAY off track, and not answer questions with clear answers. In their moment to shine they blew it.

Second Case in Point: Money

Here was a group in CA that raised, from the start, more money than the Yes on 8 group, yet when they lose they protest the Mormon church because their patrons gave money. The central problem is that they had more money from start to finish, yet they make this assumption.

Lets look to yesterday's election. In Maine the Pro Gay marriage people made around 4 million for their cause, against the about 2.5 million that the opposition had. That's nearly twice as much.

I'll admit that I haven't followed the Maine elections, but I assume that they were similar to the CA ones, just on a smaller scale. If I am wrong with this than feel free to correct me. So now I put the topic out to you all.

Why can't the "official" leaders of this movement take what they have and use it to the best of their abilities?

Simply put, marriage has always been something regulated at state level, and the government has no business telling the states what they have to adopt concerning marriage. That being said you bring up the point that the seem to have media backing and money, well good for them, what they don't have and never will is the support of the people of America which is what they need to win. No matter how much the major media outlets lie to you, the majority of America is against gay marriage and is why they keep failing, even though the media makes out like the odds are in their favor. It's all a farce to make people believe that they have the upper hand, when in fact the media have been proven time and time again to be balled faced liars by the simple fact that they fail every time.

The simple truth is, homosexuals want to shove their ideas down the throats of America. Voters have been asked many times in many states what they wanted, and in most of them the answer is a resounding NO. The gays want it regaurdless of the fact that the people have had their say about it already. They claim that it's about hate and blah blah the same tired arguments over and over again. In reality it doesn't matter why the people voted that way, what matters is the fact that they won't accept the decision that's been made. The best way I can characterize the gay marriage movement is they're like spoiled children who don't like the answer they were given so they're going to throw temper tantrums until they get their way.

The funny part about it was when prop 8 was voted on, they made the records of everyone who voted or donated to causes for prop 8 public. The homosexual activists got ahold of the list of all the doners and voters and vandalized the property of tens of thousands of california citizens along with death threats and assaults all over the state. The funny thing is this was not in the media, and they want to call us the haters for peacefully protesting gay marriage? Voting is peaceful, turning into criminals just because you don't get what you want out of a situation is something different. If these were straight people attacking gays it would be plastered all over the news and every single person would have been hung out to dry by the media and the courts for "hate crimes." I'm still wondering how this is equal treatment, or why anyone still believes what the media says.

[Torrent_Of_Octane]

Amelia Hood

Tampon Popsicle

How is it that there still people in this forum that don't know Octane is a troll?

Well, in my case I'm new, but I've known people who were not trolls who've made the same arguments, so I'd prefer to speak to that argument, not necessarily the person typing it.

First off, its not the name that makes a troll, its the argument.

And Amelia, I like to thank you for understanding that. However I would also like to point out that it is far too common for internet bigotry to play out. Even the ones thats supposedly fighting for acceptance and open-mindedness are willing to call those that dont agree with their ideology a troll.

Octane is merely a name. What matters is the content of my debate. Feel free to call me a troll if I have indicated anywhere in my arguments as trolling.

[Torrent_Of_Octane]

Amelia Hood

Torrent_Of_Octane

Amelia Hood

Torrent_Of_Octane

M. Angel

Torrent_Of_Octane

People dont like homosexuality and the polls backs that up. We just dont want it in our government.

And one thing you got right, it shouldnt have been in the supreme courts at all. It should have been at the ballot for the people to vote.

Although I agree that it should be at the ballot for the people to vote at, what's your view on the campaign that seems to hinder it's own cause.

sweatdrop Tries to keep things on topic...

Well I need sleep guys. I'll hang around for a few more minutes, but then I need to crash.

Perhaps they need to re-asses their campaign. Question themselves why were there contradictions? If one's side (speaking in general, not just about gays) seems to have problems, its usually something wrong with that, not the overall system.

But back to my opinion, gay marriage was flawed from the start. Not only do we not support them, but the fact that they're trying to force the state to adhere to their "agenda", ... a broken one may I add... of course will be meat with stern oppositions. In my opinion gay marriage dont belong in our government at all.

Would you agree that a ban on gay marriage doesn't belong in law either then?

Agreed.

Well, that's something. So you think that the decision over whether or not to wed a gay couple should fall to each individual pastor then?

No, it shall fall on the people. The people of the state to decide how they want their government to be run and what is to define marriage. I dont support a specific ban of gay marriage, but I do support a strict definition of marriage, agree upon by the people (vote) that it governs, and that it be instated and upheld by the supreme courts as the people's will. You know, the foundation on which this country was founded on...

Basically, a ballot on the definition of marriage in the said state.

[Amelia Hood]

Torrent_Of_Octane

Amelia Hood

Tampon Popsicle

How is it that there still people in this forum that don't know Octane is a troll?

Well, in my case I'm new, but I've known people who were not trolls who've made the same arguments, so I'd prefer to speak to that argument, not necessarily the person typing it.

First off, its not the name that makes a troll, its the argument.

And Amelia, I like to thank you for understanding that. However I would also like to point out that it is far too common for internet bigotry to play out. Even the ones thats supposedly fighting for acceptance and open-mindedness are willing to call those that dont agree with their ideology a troll.

Octane is merely a name. What matters is the content of my debate. Feel free to call me a troll if I have indicated anywhere in my arguments as trolling.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the intention behind the argument that makes a troll. A troll's singular purpose is to incite an emotional response out of whoever they're trolling.

At any rate, all of this is outside the scope of the discussion.

[JayDi Blaze]

Torrent_Of_Octane

synesthesia_death

I remember when Prop 8 was in vote, all the themes and polls here at ED somehow gave me an optimistic hope that it would approve gay marriage. I mean, I did not think the commercials of the kids with the prince/princess stories and such could have the effect of fear on people it wanted to place. The acting on them was laughable in my opinion, so the seriousness of the message for me was gone with it.
But I was wrong, and well, slightly disappointed.

Pssst. Gaia is extremely liberal compared to IRL.

Pssst. Nobody cares.

[Amelia Hood]

Bloody hell, I have to go. It was fun.

[JayDi Blaze]

Octane, THIS is why I treat you like the twith that you are and report you all the time. You don't know when to stop, and you ruin perfectly good threads all in the name of your own personal ********. In case you havn't noticed, the ED is running out of good threads. So, do everyone a favor, and bugger off.

[Torrent_Of_Octane]

Amelia Hood

Torrent_Of_Octane

Amelia Hood

Tampon Popsicle

How is it that there still people in this forum that don't know Octane is a troll?

Well, in my case I'm new, but I've known people who were not trolls who've made the same arguments, so I'd prefer to speak to that argument, not necessarily the person typing it.

First off, its not the name that makes a troll, its the argument.

And Amelia, I like to thank you for understanding that. However I would also like to point out that it is far too common for internet bigotry to play out. Even the ones thats supposedly fighting for acceptance and open-mindedness are willing to call those that dont agree with their ideology a troll.

Octane is merely a name. What matters is the content of my debate. Feel free to call me a troll if I have indicated anywhere in my arguments as trolling.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the intention behind the argument that makes a troll. A troll's singular purpose is to incite an emotional response out of whoever they're trolling.

At any rate, all of this is outside the scope of the discussion.

Then in that case, why would it matter if one was a troll or not? Trolls can make insightful, valid and sound discussion as well. Then I must ask you, how would one go about identifying a troll? How does that rational lead to Tampon calling me a troll then? Not only that, but to judge my content based on my name... would be called prejudice.

But yeah, its neither here nor there. However like the OP, I must go catch some sleep. I will be on tomorrow.

[Torrent_Of_Octane]

JayDi Blaze

Torrent_Of_Octane

synesthesia_death

I remember when Prop 8 was in vote, all the themes and polls here at ED somehow gave me an optimistic hope that it would approve gay marriage. I mean, I did not think the commercials of the kids with the prince/princess stories and such could have the effect of fear on people it wanted to place. The acting on them was laughable in my opinion, so the seriousness of the message for me was gone with it.
But I was wrong, and well, slightly disappointed.

Pssst. Gaia is extremely liberal compared to IRL.

Pssst. Nobody cares.

You cared enough to quote and respond.

[Torrent_Of_Octane]

JayDi Blaze

Octane, THIS is why I treat you like the twith that you are and report you all the time. You don't know when to stop, and you ruin perfectly good threads all in the name of your own personal ********. In case you havn't noticed, the ED is running out of good threads. So, do everyone a favor, and bugger off.

So would you like to address to my points and the topic at hand? Or would you just like to concede that you have nothing to add to the debate and are merely here to blindly support gay rights while completely shutting out all disagreements with your ideology?

EDIT: And with this I'm out. I'll be back tomorrow.

[El Dimentio]

I know it, Maine shouted it at me. We're not wanted in America. I'm canceling my plans of going there to study next year.

[Supa Beanie]

Torrent_Of_Octane

JayDi Blaze

Octane, THIS is why I treat you like the twith that you are and report you all the time. You don't know when to stop, and you ruin perfectly good threads all in the name of your own personal ********. In case you havn't noticed, the ED is running out of good threads. So, do everyone a favor, and bugger off.

So would you like to address to my points and the topic at hand? Or would you just like to concede that you have nothing to add to the debate and are merely here to blindly support gay rights while completely shutting out all disagreements with your ideology?

EDIT: And with this I'm out. I'll be back tomorrow.

People who can't convert you to their way of thinking have a way of irrationally lashing out when they know they don't have a chance in hell of bringing you over to their side. That's why he has to report you constantly, because you're not societies b***h like he is. Let's just accept whatever the media tells us to, because the numbers say America supports it. Sadly the polls say otherwise, can you say sore loser? lol

[JayDi Blaze]

Torrent_Of_Octane

JayDi Blaze

Octane, THIS is why I treat you like the twith that you are and report you all the time. You don't know when to stop, and you ruin perfectly good threads all in the name of your own personal ********. In case you havn't noticed, the ED is running out of good threads. So, do everyone a favor, and bugger off.

So would you like to address to my points and the topic at hand? Or would you just like to concede that you have nothing to add to the debate and are merely here to blindly support gay rights while completely shutting out all disagreements with your ideology?
EDIT: And with this I'm out. I'll be back tomorrow.

I will not debate with you, because masonry has better debate skills, and less circular logic and hypocrisy.

In case you didn't catch that, I'll simplify it for you.

I'm not conceding, I just don't like talking to people who happen to be thick as bricks. Less circular logic would do you well, hypocrisy too.